hoopie
Last month

Past players who could make it today?

Given the changes in the style of game and the standard of the players since 2000, I wonder who from before 2000 could have adapted to today's game and stood out.

Would shooters such as Gaze and Rillie still be as dominant against today's defences?
How would legendary big guys such as Bradtke, Loggins & Crawford have gone against guys like Long, Bogut & Andersen?
Would small forwards such as Sammy Mac and Rob Rose have been able to step up?
Would the D-Train have been such an excitement machine in today's league?

Note that I'm not comparing them as they played in their primes - I'm more interested in whether you think they could have adapted or whether their skills then would still have made an impact today. If someone was big and slow then, I wouldn't expect him to be able to speed up much for today's game.

Your thoughts?

Topic #46322 | Report this topic


RMQ  
Last month

Rashad Tucker

/thread

Reply #773772 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

Ah yes, Leroy Loggins, that legendary big guy.

Reply #773774 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

I think all the players you mentioned would make it today. Some of them might have even been in the NBA instead, as we live in a time now when the NBA has more teams and is more open minded about international players. Certainly Gaze should have been a consistent rotation player in the NBA.

Gaze in the NBA would be something in the mould of Joe Ingles, who has proven athleticism and speed aren't the be all and end all. And Gaze would still be a match up nightmare in today's NBL. Bradtke is every bit 6'10 and has uncommon strength and size, even for the NBL today. I'd expect him to still be among the best centers.

I also think in Vlahov you would've had a bulkier Mitch Creek.

I think the best-of-the-best of the NBL from yesteryear would still be around the mark in today's league. But I think our teams now are deeper and hold the standard a bit more across the starting 5 as well. Some of the role players probably wouldn't get a game today. But if you're going to talk the top 20 guys from the NBL until 2000, definitely the best of them would be among the best now.

Reply #773776 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

hoopie
This thread lost all credibility due to you thinking Leroy was a big guy.

Reply #773777 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Gaze cannot play defense, so he still would not be in the NBA.

Reply #773778 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Brett Rainbow could've made it to the NBA

Reply #773780 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Mee, Rose, Mackinnon, Saville, Woodberry would thrive in today's game. Do-it-all types with size and athleticism who could all shoot a decent clip from outside, aside from Mee..

Today's emphasis on outside shooting would the likes of John Rillie more effective too.

Reply #773782 | Report this post


Alright?  
Last month

Paul Rees

Reply #773783 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

i stopped reading at Loggins - legit, stopped!

Reply #773784 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

[Gaze cannot play defense, so he still would not be in the NBA.]

When did they start playing defense in the NBA?

I must've missed the memo.

Reply #773785 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

They'd all be fine in the modern NBL.

Reply #773793 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

That's akin to asking would Wilt Chamberlain be able to play in the NBA today

The game isnt that different from the 1980's

Simon Dwight would still dominate on D

Darryl Pearce would still knock down open jump shots

Ricky Grace would still be going left

Reply #773796 | Report this post


Senator11  
Last month

James Crawford would dominate the bigs today on both ends.

Reply #773801 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Jamie Kennedy and Simon Cottrell

Reply #773808 | Report this post


Shayno  
Last month

Brett rainbow??? U kidding yourself.

Prob mike kelly, carfino and mark davis

Reply #773815 | Report this post


Bill Beaver  
Last month

I think the real question here is who defines greatness more, BJ Carter or Brendan Teys?

Reply #773817 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

hahahahahahah Brett Rainbow!!!! hahahahah

If there is someone who would easily DOMINATE in this present league?....Dwayne "D-Train" McClain! Unstoppable one on ne. Legit 30+ scorer a night. Probably the best import we have seen in this country.

Reply #773820 | Report this post


hoopie  
Last month

Okay, so Leroy as a SG/SF at 198cm shouldn't really be classed as a big, but 30 years ago I felt he was big for his position. Now, he would be an average height for a SG, small for a SF. But the question was whether he could have adapted to the current NBL (and even dominated)?

And Dwight and Grace I'd agree with.

One who I doubt would have made the step up would have been Phil Smyth.

Reply #773824 | Report this post


Yolo  
Last month

Smyth was considered to be in the top 5 world point guards in his day

He would have handled the current crop of guards quite well

Reply #773825 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Smyth against Cotton, Ware or Trimble would get absolutely pantsed.

Reply #773827 | Report this post


Yolo  
Last month

Did you see Smyth in his prime? So I am assuming you saw him play in the late 70's and early 80's IF you saw that Smyth then you would know better

Reply #773828 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

Adnam gets solid minutes in the modern NBL. Smyth would get a gig just fine.

I think Paul Rees is a more interesting question given the lack of athleticism and height. But he was solid and used his experience well. Championships count for something!

Reply #773830 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Yeah man, he was a regular George Gervin!

Reply #773831 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

If kenny and ili are getting minutes luke martin would hold his own in this era. Had a lot of smarts and quicks was def a sydney nbl legend.

Reply #773833 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Luke Martin couldn't hit the broadside of a lindt cafe!

Reply #773835 | Report this post


Old As  
Last month

As someone who has coached kids for about 30 years and have seen Smyth, Dwight, Grace, Crawford etc live and on TV it is my opinion most of those older stars could hang in there today. The athleticism of kids today, especially the bigger ones, is greater than 25 years ago. When kids see the feats of the champions they naturally try to emulate those athletic moves and skills. Todays kids are encouraged to 'show us what you got' and are far less conservative, generally speaking. In todays NBL you don't see the non athletic stoppers that were in the league 30 years ago. I reckon that's because others are too athletically gifted. The great athletes of each generation would survive playing against the next generation, but may not be as elite, in my opinion.

Reply #773839 | Report this post


Mystro  
Last month

Phill Jones, my favourite lefty

Reply #773845 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

Would any of the players in the squad of the 1988 Supercats make it today though?

Reply #773847 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Matt Nielsen and Jason Smith were exceptional talents, Smith very under estimated.

Reply #773849 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I think the more interesting question is, could today's players make it in the 80's/90's?

Reply #773851 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Zac Delaney. Would've loved to see him team up with La Melo at the Hawks

Reply #773856 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

al green was unstoppable in the low block , he would be backing down cotton ,ware , trimble etc all -night. he also had the speed to go with these guys. basically he would beat the crap out of these guys . ware sooks it up as it is , green would have had him in tears.

Reply #773859 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last month

Here's a name I bet everyone forgot about - Aaron Olson!

I bet he'd still be handy in today's game as a shooter off the bench. I remembered his retirement was so random (was in his late 20's or something)

Reply #773861 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

David Wear could still make it in todays leagur. Good stretch 4 would play a similar role to Dan Kickertt.

Reply #773863 | Report this post


Mystro  
Last month

I thought of AO as I posted Phil Jones lol Macdub.

Reply #773864 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last month

I always said David Wear was like Daniel Kickert without the shooting ability.

Which with all due respect, pretty much leaves nothing.

Reply #773865 | Report this post


Mock  
Last month

Vlahov would play NBA if he was playing today. The man was fearless and an absolute BEAST down low.

Reply #773868 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last month

The challenge would be for the previous players to "step down" a position.

Eg Loggins played SF/PF, Davis played PF, Brantley played centre, Vlahos played PF.

Each would be undersized. A good guide for some would be how well they adjusted playing for the Boomers. Bradtke played PF very well, Vlahos (from memory) battled well as an undersized PF at times.

Reply #773870 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

"Vlahov would play NBA if he was playing today. The man was fearless and an absolute BEAST down low"

Agreed. I'd say Vlahov is one of the most, if not the most, underrated Australian player of all time. I dare say he was the most versatile player of the 90s Boomers yet when people talk of great Australian players, he's rarely mentioned.

Reply #773871 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last month

Mock

Vlahov was scouted by NBA if I remember correctly, but overlooked as he was undersized for his position. Langley was drafted from same college as Vlahov. He did develop a 3 point shot though.

Reply #773872 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last month

Longley

Reply #773873 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last month

I don't mean to be talking Vlahov down. He played well above his size, and held his own against bigger opponents.

Reply #773874 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"Vlahov was scouted by NBA if I remember correctly, but overlooked as he was undersized for his position. Langley was drafted from same college as Vlahov. He did develop a 3 point shot though."

He had a trial with the Lakers after the 91 season from memory.

Not sure what you mean about the same college though. Vlahov went to Stanford and Longley went to UNM.

Reply #773875 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I often wonder why it's mostly the modern athletes who are judged the best ever but in other arts no one gets ranked ahead of Shakespeare or Beetoven.

Reply #773885 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Svaldenis

Reply #773886 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Last month

Things are always relative. Sport is more professional these days with a lot more science going into it. For SANFL fans of the 70's and 80's, gone are the days where you could pass a player a beer from the sidelines, and one game I saw Grenville Dietrich eat a meat pie someone gave him. Let's not forget Marshies tinnies on the plane to London, only to be outdone by Boonie a few years later. What about guys like Mark Jackson...

The ones who can't make it today are the ones who wouldn't be able to stay disciplined.

Reply #773887 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

MACDUB it wasn't random more like an early retirement as Olson wanted to return to Canada.

Reply #773894 | Report this post


proud  
Last month

Woodbury would still be awesome in today's NBL, especially with the three ball more valued than ever.

I might be getting mixed up with Vlahov but he stands at 200cms and Scott Fisher at 201cms, and James Crawford at 202cms, similar body types but I always thought they stuck to whomever they matched up on best ie Crawford would always get Davis yet also get Bradtke. If they were playing today with all the switching then it wouldn't really matter if any of those three were playing the 3/4/5 as there would be a feeling of a mismatch with them all. In saying that I'd back all 3 legends to still be very good in today's NBL. Fisher was such a sweet shooter, Crawford would still be elite and Vlahov has a will that can't be denied although I would love to see him teach today's player how to take a charge.

I'd be interested in seeing how Wayne McDaniel played in today's era, I remember him later in his career and he was still Hobart's most unstoppable player but I don't remember how he went about getting those points so much.

Reply #773907 | Report this post


chillbaby  
Last month

Michael Johnson and Jerry Everett from Newcastle. Both would fit in today particularly Michael with his 3 point shot

Reply #773910 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last month

The league has gotten significantly better talent-wise over the past 3-5 years - you already see guys who were high-level players (Ogilvy a prime example) who have struggled to keep up. I also think the league dipped significantly from what it was in the 90s at its peak, and it's only been these past 3-5 years where it's regained that (or even arguably surpassed) both in quality of locals and imports. Having said that, good players are good players, and the difference in athleticism etc, if those guys growing up today they would probably be on par athletically in a lot of cases. Some guys would seamlessly step into today's game, and some guys would struggle. Vice versa is definitely true too, though.

Reply #773917 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

The league has gotten significantly better talent-wise over the past 3-5 years
There are still scrubs filling benches though. Third imports on the chopping block. Better top-shelf stars, but that wouldn't keep past greats out of teams.

Ogilvy (31 yo) might be hitting a decline through age more than changes in league talent. Schenscher averaged 4 PPG aged 33 and retired around then. A lot of Ogilvy's match-ups aren't vastly different players - Bogut's new, but Knight has retired.

Reply #773920 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last month

"There are still scrubs filling benches though."

That's always going to be the case though just based on the $$$ being offered to fill these spots - it was the same 'back in the day'. If some of the 80s/90s players who would probably be more on the rotation-player level these days are willing to play for peanuts to fill out benches, I agree they'd "make it". For some of them, they might make more than they used to anyway. :D

Reply #773923 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

I think Andrew Gaze would average 30 if he was in the league today in his prime. His height, shooting and smarts still haven't been matched at his position in the league. He wouldn't dominate to the level he used to but I think he'd make most defenders look pretty useless.

Reply #773929 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

No way he'd average 30. he'd be benched for not playing defence.

I'd like to see how NBL legend Julian Newman would go, I might email LK and ask him.

Reply #773930 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last month

Isaac

"There are still scrubs filling benches though“

That's at least partially due to the salary rules about lowest paid players.

I reckon almost any any starter from the 90s would get a gig now, but some play spot minutes only.

Reply #773935 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last month

I reckon Jason Smith would get DPOY even in today's game - his defence was awesome, and he was more of a scorer than Damo

Reply #773952 | Report this post


Bill Beaver  
Last month

It's all adapt or perish type shiz.

You play the way you're required to in your era to ensure you can get a paying gig.

You can't really argue that the 80s was a bit more "unrefined" with generally guards expected to have guard skills, designated rebounders etc. Just because an 80s (or 90s big like Paul Rees) didn't display the skill set in their era doesn't automatically mean that if you transported them to the 10s that they wouldnt' be able to develop a jumpshot.

You ask any real coach at any level and they'll "hire" or "recruit" based on character traits rather than purely physical attributes (all other factors considered).

You want coachable guys because really, with enough time put in, skill can be acquired. Whereas doucheyness (much like say, Luke Martin) is a trait that follows you in every endeavour in life.

In that respect, champs of the bygone era, be it Smyth, Paul Rees, David Stiff, Matty Campbell - if they found a way to stick around 25-30 years ago, they'd probably do the same in this era as well.

Just because today's game is more refined doesn't automatically make it "better". These guys aren't borderline semi-pro or playing with very limited knowledge of sports science like the old guys, so of course, the expectation is that the physical standard should be better, it's called evolution.

Reply #773963 | Report this post


Bill Beaver  
Last month

I tip my hat off to the guys who transitioned the game from semi pro to the early 90s echelon.

In my hometown Sydney, the Damien Keoghs, the Daltons, the Uthoffs.

Guys that busted their arse off the court as well as on. Doing a ridiculous amount of promotion, some even holding non basketball related jobs off-season, etc. That's "professionalism" to me, not the silver spoon stuff of today's athlete that were hand picked from Under 12s onwards and thoroughly guided to "make it".

Reply #773964 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Love the pioneers too. But the "handpicked from under 12s onwards and thoroughly guided to make it" is what makes better players. It's the fruits of everything the pioneers worked hard for. I’m sure most of the pioneers would be glad the new generation has the systems and supports in place they wish they had from a young age. We want to make things better for the next generation, don’t we? It’s a great thing that today’s athletes are afforded the opportunity to have higher expectations than those of the past.

Reply #773976 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Last month

It's worth remembering that there are only 9 teams in the current NBL. There were 14 teams in each year during the early 90s, which fell to 11 by the end of the decade.

So you could fill 8 places on each team's roster today, with the 14 starting fives from the early 90s. Or you could swap out soem of those 90s starters for bench players in other teams, like McKay, Jason Smith, Bolden, Jensen and CJ Bruton.

Looking through the All NBL First Teams from the 1990s, I'd expect most of those players to get a starting spot today and to do well. Some of them have already been mentioned above. Others like Overton, D-Mac, Dozier and Copeland would hold down starting spots today. Players like Melmeth and Pepper, probably not so much. Dorge - maybe?

Re Ogilvy, he's playing ~9 minutes per game less than his first couple of seasons in the league. His scoring and rebounding averages have decreased accordingly. Ogilvy's returning 17.6 points and 8.8 rebounds per 40 minutes played, this season. To put that in context, Nick Kay's returning 17.6 points and 9.7 rebounds per 40 minutes played. Andrew Bogut's averaging 14.4 points and ~18 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Reply #773979 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Last month

It's worth remembering that there are only 9 teams in the current NBL. There were 14 teams in each year during the early 90s, which fell to 11 by the end of the decade.

So you could fill 8 places on each team's roster today, with the 14 starting fives from the early 90s. Or you could swap out soem of those 90s starters for bench players in other teams, like McKay, Jason Smith, Bolden, Jensen and CJ Bruton.

Looking through the All NBL First Teams from the 1990s, I'd expect most of those players to get a starting spot today and to do well. Some of them have already been mentioned above. Others like Overton, D-Mac, Dozier and Copeland would hold down starting spots today. Players like Melmeth and Pepper, probably not so much. Dorge - maybe?

Re Ogilvy, he's playing ~9 minutes per game less than his first couple of seasons in the league. His scoring and rebounding averages have decreased accordingly. Ogilvy's returning 17.6 points and 8.8 rebounds per 40 minutes played, this season. To put that in context, Nick Kay's returning 17.6 points and 9.7 rebounds per 40 minutes played. Andrew Bogut's averaging 14.4 points and ~18 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Reply #773980 | Report this post


Beantown  
Last month

UseTaHoop, Davis wouldn't need to take a step down to small forward, he was 6'8! In this small ball era he would dominate the offensive glass. There'd be very few guys who would stop him from bullying his way to the basket - I'd say Vukona & Tate would make it tough for him, but that's about it.

Reply #774018 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Last month

It's interesting that in basketball we have a 'handpicked’ generation and have a very strong national team, whereas in soccer they have a ‘handpicked’ generation and are under-achieving big-time in world leagues.

The soccer Golden Generation succeeded BECAUSE they had to battle so hard, often as youngsters in adult leagues, which this generation hasn’t had to do as much.

Reply #774041 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

once again too many people drinking the Gaze coolaid - Gaze was an elite shooter and considering he mostly played as an Offensive Guard his combination of Height and Shooting ability was rare. - With his Dad building a team around him - running the entire offence around him - and giving him the softest defence assignments - he was set for life.
I see no reason he wouldn't be an elite shooter in the modern game and still quite tall for a SG - I think nowadays you would need to match him with a defensive PG

Reply #774094 | Report this post




 

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