Anonymous
Last month

$4m gap between Kings and Sixers: Wright

In this tweet by Lachy Reid https://twitter.com/Lachy_Reid/status/1194135824637427713 he mentions that Joey Wright, when asked how to close the gap on the Kings, responded: "$4 million, anyone got $4 million?"

I started to think about the Kings' potential salaries, and Joey might actually not be too far off the mark.

Of course this is not fact and based on heresay, but I think I've read that Bogut is on something close to $1m. Ware was on big money at Melbourne United and then got a raise that they couldn't match to go to Sydney. So he is on huge money. Lisch, whilst older now and probably on reduced money, I recall when he joined Sydney it was for a significant amount. So I'd imagine that relatively speaking he is still on fairly big money. Newley and Kickert are also older now so I would imagine would be on reduced wages, but are two guys who have been well paid during their careers so unlikely to be on chump change.

Then you have Louzada, an NBA draftee who could've probably got decent coin to be stashed in Europe. I think I read that Hampton was on something like $400K? so Louzada might be in the same bracket (notwithstanding that the league foots the bill). Having said that, maybe the league was willing to pay Hampton more because the team that drafts him will need to pay a contract break fee. Not sure if Louzada signed a similar 2-year deal or not?

Does anyone else think Joey's estimate of $4m is not too far fetched?

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Anonymous  
Last month

Hampton is getting over 1mill.

Reply #773934 | Report this post


UseTaHoop  
Last month

Isn't Joey’s contract up for negotiation?

If so, maybe he’s planting the seeds to justify a middle of the road finish (which is probably fair enough, imho).

Reply #773936 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Whatever the Kings salary is, its clear the league is allowing them to do as they please because they want the Sydney market to prosper.

Reply #773937 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

them why isn't there a western Sydney team

Reply #773938 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

excuse making before getting fired

Reply #773939 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

It's probably not too far off and keep in mind they all know what each other is on.

The only two players at Adelaide on decent/good money would be DJ & Randle. DJ is on a 3 year deal so he would've taken a discount both to stay and for the longevity and Randle was still a free agent in October and got a 2 year deal from the Sixers too so likely taking a discount on the $400k a year he was on at the Kings.

Sydney where do we start Bogut is on $1 million a year, Casper Ware was rumoured to be on around $600k a year at Melbourne, United said they offered him the largest contract they ever have and he still declined and signed with Sydney. DJ Kennedy was on $750k last season at United so safe to assume Ware is on something similar if not more at the Kings.

Kevin Lisch & Brad Newley were both on $300k a year on their previous contracts with the Kings and have just re-signed no doubt the probably took pay cuts the question is how much? Daniel Kickert is in the second year of the 2 year deal he signed with the Kings when he was still playing for the Boomers and coming off a pretty good final season in Brisbane so he would be on good money.

Louzada being an NBA draft pick would be on good money no doubt but the caveat there is the NBL pays for Next Stars salaries not the team but still doesn't take away from Joey's point. The Kings just bought out the contract of Deshon Taylor from his team in Europe so that plus paying him wouldn't be cheap. Tate has come from Belgium a mickey mouse league in Europe he would be relatively cheap, Moller could've signed anywhere I'm sure the Kings are paying him something decent to remain on the bench, Jordan Hunter got a 3 year deal from the Kings fresh out of college.

Walker, Kuany & Bruce wouldn't be on much due to lack of options elsewhere.

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Zodiac  
Last month

Isn't Joey's contract up for negotiation?


Joey's under contract until 2022.

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A.  
Last month

Whilst the league is as good as its ever been it wont be long before the truth starts hurting. Wollongong & Cairns now have zero chance of ever winning a championship, others like Adelaide and Brisbane look unlikely to be able to match the bigger cities either. Its just wrong and unfair.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Annnnnnnd here it comes......the salary disparity bullshit to pave the road of mediocrity. The Sixers are not 'budget'! Joey needs to stop selling this crap because management certainly aren't. You don't hear the CEO saying this, do you.

Reply #773944 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Louzada is getting paid by the Next Stars program which doesnt come from Sydney's salary. Adelaide have chose not to have a Next Star this year

Reply #773945 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"Joey's under contract until 2022."

Enjoy.

Reply #773946 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"Louzada is getting paid by the Next Stars program which doesnt come from Sydney's salary."

So? If the league is paying top dollar to Louzada so he can play at Sydney, the Kings still get the advantage of having someone of his calibre on their team.

Reply #773948 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

I love the "chose not to have a next star" comments as though there's actually enough decent players who are interested in being in the 'program'.

Reply #773951 | Report this post


Moose  
Last month

The league pass next stars $100k.

Clubs can then choose to pay more on top of that and it doesn't count towards the cap.

Next stars can then choose where they want to go.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Didn't hear Wright complaining when when Brisbane spent ten fold on every one else. His only championship, though they probably should’ve won it a few seasons back when they choked to the hawks and gave Perth an easy championship win.
He put this side together, his call to employ Teys and White for defence, that’s work out well.

The kings bench are on a lot less than people think and I’m certain he could’ve kept Sean Bruce but never even talked to him.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Moose is spot on. League pays $100k, but I think they raised it to $150k this year. Vickermann said in the offseason that he and United pitched to RJ Hampton and his family, but they felt that NZ was a better fit for what they hoped to achieve.

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Curtley  
Last month

Is it possible Joey was referring to running AND player costs?

Reply #773958 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Last month

I do think the spending has gotten out of control at certain clubs.

Those big clubs are paying overs for their imports now I believe. Kennedy's performance last season wasn't anything special against what Imports normally do so $750k was ridiculous.

I've always said that the problem with having a higher spend is that teams won't attract better quality imports. They will simply get the same or similar level of imports - but just pay them a bucket load more. In essence, you're just spending more for the same thing.

I'm genuinely not convinced that the quality of imports has increased hugely over the past 10 years;

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KET  
Last month

It's not much good for teams like Sydney, Melbourne to be spending big $$$ if they are losing plenty of money and forcing ownership to top up ad nauseum. Perhaps, yes, Sydney/Melbourne have more big money people willing to lose money than other cities, but it's not the right approach.

And yes, to that extent teams like Illawarra and Cairns suffer because they can't be sustainable on that kind of $$$ and probably require LK assistance just to be competitive and grab a few wins.

Adelaide is in the same boat, albeit hard to complain with recent success over the last 5 years or so, a couple of grand finals and the general management incompetence the last 20-30 years.

I appreciate the short term has meant a significant improvement in the quality level of players, which is wonderful and probably the right approach, but sustainable models have to kick in some time soon.

A pretty good barometer for Adelaide is the fact their major sponsors for last few years have also been United/Bullets sponsor, including B Solar, ie. the LK assistance treatment.

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Reality  
Last month

Joey not playing a style that can help make up the gap in budget!

Reply #773968 | Report this post


Bol  
Last month

Isn't there a tax for player payments over the soft cap which would help prop up clubs like cairns and illawarra? Where is that money going is it being made public?

Reply #773972 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

That money goes into a fund which other clubs must apply for and use on certain terms, I believe.

Reply #773978 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

That's a good system for lifting the bottom clubs while the top clubs spend, therefore improving quality of talent/player payments across the league, but what it doesn't do is fix the issue of the inherent advantage of those spending more than others.

The bigger relative spenders will still exist, the best players will still get snapped up by the bigger spenders, the lower spenders will inevitably inherit the losing role year after year and try to draw crowds/sponsors in on the role of being beaten.

Whether LK or the NBL actually want to remediate that is the first question, the second question is how, without affecting the league's ability to draw top local and international talent.

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We Can Do Better  
Last month

Just another excuse.

Add it to Joey's already very long list.

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orbit  
Last month

Very little mention of Tate. He's been awesome for them!! A modern day Barkley. He will win them the chip!

Reply #773991 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

Didn't hear Wright complaining when when Brisbane spent ten fold on every one else.

Exactly, Bullet$ easily spent millions more per season than any other club under the Groves ownership yet Joey only managed to win two titles during that time. Now he openly complains about the current big boys. Yeah, okay.

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Anonymous  
Last month

He only won one title at Brisbane.

Reply #773993 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

This was a quote from Bloomberg:

"Hampton will join the Breakers as part of the local National Basketball League's Next Stars Program, which means he’ll be paid by the league and not the team. The standard contract for a player in the program is $100,000, but Walsh said Hampton would "far surpass that." He declined to be specific.

The 6-foot-5 point guard signed a two-year contract with the New Zealand Breakers, said team part-owner and managing director Matt Walsh. Because he signed a two-year deal, the Breakers will eligible to receive an $800,000 buyout from any NBA team that selects Hampton in the first round of the draft, Walsh said."

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PeterJohn  
Last month

"I'm genuinely not convinced that the quality of imports has increased hugely over the past 10 years; "

The imports from 2009-10:
Cortez Groves
Rolan Roberts
Awvee Storey
Corey Williams
Tywain McKee
Adam Ballinger
Julius Hodge
John Gilchrist
Ayinde Ubaka
Erron Maxey
Rich Melzer
Rick Rickert
Kevin Lisch
Shawn Redhage
Galen Young
Julien Mills
Dave Gruber

I've probably missed someone. I don't remember most of these guys well so can't comment on how they compare to today's batch.

Reply #773995 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

He only won one title at Brisbane.

That's even worse. What an under performer.

Reply #773997 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

2009-10 was peak cheap era of NBL, with BA taking over. That import list is horrible.

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PeterJohn  
Last month

If the Kings' salary bill is $4 million, the luxury tax is going to be way less than that number would suggest. Only part of Bogut's salary counts as I expect he's their marquee local. None of Ball's salary counts. So that would reduce the amount subject to luxury tax by around $1 million, using the numbers posted above.

The amount paid to Taylor's club to buy out his contract probably doesn't count because it doesn't go to Taylor?

So I reckon there'd be not much luxury tax coming to poor clubs compared to that level of spending. Maybe $300,000 split across 2-3 clubs next year? So $100,000-$150,000 each?

In comparison, a $4 million spend by the Kings, with other clubs only spending to the cap (on average), would lift the salary floor by more than $200,000 next year - if NBL still has the rule about increasing cap/floor in line with average team salaries.

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Anonymous  
Last month

I'd be surprised if Ball's salary counted to Sydney's cap

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Anonymous  
Last month

This is so weak by Joey. I'll be happy when he is gone. Real tacky stuff from a 'pro’. Coaches should be on the business of not making excuses, he sees the writing on the wall, another failed season, so plays the political game. If he doesn’t like the fact the kings are most likely getting some sort of financial aid to get them going and the league going, move on. It’s a business, it’ll be around long after Joey has left.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Considering the ups and down the league has had over the years, and the way this current ownership group is driving the arms race, there is absolutely no guarantee it will be around for long at all.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Holy shit, the Kings owner is delusional. Thinks he is nurturing talent and building a culture, while preaching that you can't buy championships.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Brisbane Bullets paid for a title. Joey Wright was the coach

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D2.0  
Last month

Hey, It's Joey, he's always going to speak his mind,

Given it was an off the cuff comment, I wouldn't get too scientific with the analysis. "$4M" could be referring to their total salary, rather than the actual gap.

Bogut, IIRC was $1M or $1.1M
Ware is reported to be on $800k.
Kickert, Newley, Lisch/Talor, and Tate say average $300~400k each
And the bench guys collectively on around $500~600k (or whatever the cap is now.)
So yep, pretty much bang on $3.9~4M

Reply #774053 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

^^^^
What a load of shite.

Reply #774056 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

Brisbane Bullets paid for a title. Joey Wright was the coach

They paid for about four but only got one. Oops.

Reply #774058 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

The Kings salaries wouldn't even be close to $4mil.

Wright's not serious.

Reply #774069 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

Where did all this stuff about Bogut being on $1mil and Casper being on $700-$800k come from?

That's so outlandish it's hard to take seriously. Where are you people actually getting these numbers from?

Reply #774072 | Report this post


Its a bad smell to see them 8-1 with an NBA draftee in DIDI being not counted as a full blown import. Like a James Ennis for free.

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rjd  
Last month

Is that why the basketball gods punished them by injuring Lisch?

Although Sydney is still getting it done one import down.

Reply #774087 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Okay, LV has found his Crack pipe again.
Just for starters - Wright and other Coaches would truly know what players are getting paid - unlike some crackhead on the internet - so I will take his word over yours thanks.
Boguts salary was reported at the time - as the man himself would say - Google It - He was offered almost the same money by United - but Sydney also threw in an ownership state and agreed to let him take merchandise profits.
Ware's salary has been reported by those in the know - and it also makes sense - he was offered around $700k by United and Sydney offered more money - do the maths.

Reply #774091 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

Bogut salary was reported as 1 Mil over TWO seasons

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/it-s-not-about-money-why-bogut-has-gone-all-in-for-the-kings-20180424-p4zbfl.html

He has shares in the Kings too but we have no idea what the shares were worth.


https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-24/bogut-rules-out-nba-return-commits-to-kings-for-long-term/9690808


And, a company that has no profits legally can't pay a dividend. So, are the Kings profitable? Unlikely I reckon.

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KET  
Last month

I would have thought that only Perth turn a profit.

It's not so much bitching about Sydney spending lots as it is about what is going to keep the NBL a thriving, sustainable, competitive league.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Melbourne went close to breaking even last season. They're doing well from the corporate activities linked to the club.

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LV  
Last month

Caspers more believable since Cotton was reportedly on 600 and may have taken a discount for a 3 year deal. Plus as you say, Sydney outbid United for his services.

So I could almost believe 700 for Casper. Let's say 700 then

Casper 700
Bogut 500
Lisch 400
Newley 300
Didi 300 (Inc 100 by NBL)
Tate 250
Kickert 200
Moller 150
Bruce 100
Walker 100
Kuany 80
Hunter 70

Total 3.15mil, Inc 100k paid by NBL.

Bottom 5 on 500k, less than 40% of salary floor or $514,800. (Cap 1.43mil, floor 1.287 mil, 40% of floor being 514,800)

If the salaries are 4mil then where is the extra 850k going? Who's getting extra beyond the above numbers?

Fwiw I think these are top end estimates. I doubt any of these guys would be getting more than this. I reckon most would be on less- especially Newley, Lisch and Didi. Those 3 wouldn't be on 1mil combined.

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Anonymous  
Last month

What a load of shit.

Walker 100g lmao
Lisch never earned 400k when even JVG was running it.

I could go on, on all that list but not worth the effort. Melbourne are the real big spenders and you can't admit it as they might not win it all.

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Anonymous  
Last month

These salary guesses make me chortle.

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LV  
Last month

Melbourne United top end estimates

Long 500
Trimble 500
Prather 500
CG 400
McCarron 300
Barlow 200
Pledger 150
Ili 130
Acuil 100
Smith Milner 70
McDaniel 60

Total $2.91mil

Bottom 5 $510k, under $514,800

I doubt anyone on United is earning over $500k. Trimble and Long are young guys from losing teams, they wouldn't be on the kind of money afforded to proven championships winners like Ware (supposedly 700) and Cotton (reported as 600). Prather is a proven winner but just had 12 months off- and that carries a bunch of risks, such as the clean up that resulted in him missing 6 or 7 games. And, will he be the same Prather as before? Most players recover well, but then you also have guys like Bairstow who return without quite the same agility.

Reply #774109 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

Anon #108

I'm completely making these up, just for fun. Might be way off the mark.

Who knows. Not many of us do, that's for sure.

Reply #774110 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

But to repeat one point, when I say "I might be way off the mark", I mean that I may be over estimating these guys salaries.

I very much doubt any of these United or Kings players would be on substantially MORE than what I've listed. It just wouldn't make sense, given what we know about salaries in other Australian sports, and international basketball, and given where the NBL is at in the sporting landscape.

Because one question you have to ask yourself is this: If this is a massive arms race, and the Kings are spending $4mil like Wright says, and United are spending $5 or $6mil like Bogut said (with tongue firmly in cheek I'm sure), you have to ask why? For what benefit? What's the point? Who's spending the money and why?

Follow the money...always follow the money.

Reply #774113 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

LV you seem to be making an honest attempt at salary guesses.
Can you please do Perth roster.
Go easy I know you hate them lol.

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Anonymous  
Last month

"why? For what benefit? What's the point?"

To win a title and to make the product entertaining. That may work for a season or two, but in the long term is unsustainable unless the clubs are actually doing enough to engage enough fans on a regular basis.

Reply #774116 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

Perth top end estimates

Cotton 600
White 450
Kay 300
Hunt 250
Martin 250
Norton 200
Wagstaff 150
Steindl 100
Majok 90
Vague 90
NP 70

$2.55 mil total.

Bottom 5 on $500k, under $514,800.

White performed well in the GF and might've got a raise. Martin and Wagstaff are settled long term in Perth, so they might be playing for less than they’d otherwise be worth.

Reply #774117 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

Actually Majok is probably on more and others in the bottom 5 on less. Majok has played 4 seasons in the NBL

Still I think all of these top teams would be paying approx 500k to the bottom guys.

The differences are in the top end, and I agree Perth has less top end, expensive talent than UTD or Sydney. Perth's got a great coach and a great system. It remains to be seen whether that will make up for the budget difference.

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LV  
Last month

(They would all be spending 5ook or less that is, given they're not allowed to spend more than $514,800. I think it remains a possibility they're paying a fair bit less. I remember CJ Massingale saying he was on 40k. That was only about what, 5 or 6 years ago? )

Reply #774119 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

LOL. Moller is NOT on 150. Not even close.

Reply #774121 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The Melbourne list is so wrong and again I'm believing what partners tell me, so it is hear say but they would be around the mark.

Stop guessing you have no idea. Believe me Melbourne top six are on extremely good money.

Reply #774131 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

If United plays 19 home games - 14 regular season, 5 playoffs- averaging crowds of 8,500 per game, average ticket cost of $50- that's $8 million in revenue. (Yes- of course they have merch and sponsorship revenue too).

Consider their costs:

- Player salaries
- Staff salaries- executives, coaching, office staff, etc etc. This would be substantial because of the large headcount. Say 30 staff * 75k is $2.25mil. Add payroll tax on top.
- Marketing
- Office rent. They may be using LK office space but would be paying market rates given there are other owners involved.
- Travel costs- How much does it cost to send 20 people to the USA for a week?
- Venue hire
- Ticketmaster percentage on every ticket sold
- All your standard business expenses- electricity, insurances, staff recruitment, office fit outs, IT and software, accountants, lawyers.

Etc etc.

If they’re paying their players $5mil (like Bogut suggested) then they’re losing millions of dollars. Guaranteed.

Where’s the money coming from in the NBL? If guys like Prather, Trimble and Long are on $700k, and if Goulding and McCarron are on $500k, then who’s pouring in these millions to pay these guys salaries? Who decided they wanted to lose money just for the fun of it? And why are they doing it? What’s their incentive?

LK has loads of cash to throw around, sure. But don’t forget he still owns the league too. Conflict of interest but also means his main incentive is a strong league, not for his club to win at all costs and lose money for the other owners.

Don’t forget, an ASX Listed company owns 25% of United. (Crocmedia is owned by an ASX company). There’s other small owners too. Do we really think LK has such magical powers of persuasion that he’s convincing everybody to throw money away?

Reply #774136 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

If United plays 19 home games - 14 regular season, 5 playoffs- averaging crowds of 8,500 per game, average ticket cost of $50- that's $8 million in revenue. (Yes- of course they have merch and sponsorship revenue too).

Consider their costs:

- Player salaries
- Staff salaries- executives, coaching, office staff, etc etc. This would be substantial because of the large headcount. Say 30 staff * 75k is $2.25mil. Add payroll tax on top.
- Marketing
- Office rent. They may be using LK office space but would be paying market rates given there are other owners involved.
- Travel costs- How much does it cost to send 20 people to the USA for a week?
- Venue hire
- Ticketmaster percentage on every ticket sold
- All your standard business expenses- electricity, insurances, staff recruitment, office fit outs, IT and software, accountants, lawyers.

Etc etc.

If they’re paying their players $5mil (like Bogut suggested) then they’re losing millions of dollars. Guaranteed.

Where’s the money coming from in the NBL? If guys like Prather, Trimble and Long are on $700k, and if Goulding and McCarron are on $500k, then who’s pouring in these millions to pay these guys salaries? Who decided they wanted to lose money just for the fun of it? And why are they doing it? What’s their incentive?

LK has loads of cash to throw around, sure. But don’t forget he still owns the league too. Conflict of interest but also means his main incentive is a strong league, not for his club to win at all costs and lose money for the other owners.

Don’t forget, an ASX Listed company owns 25% of United. (Crocmedia is owned by an ASX company). There’s other small owners too. Do we really think LK has such magical powers of persuasion that he’s convincing everybody to throw money away?

Reply #774137 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

Here's a list of United shareholders

http://www.melbourneutd.com.au/pages/melbourne-united-board

We know CrocMedia is owned by an ASX co and owns 25%

https://www.afr.com/companies/media-and-marketing/crocmedia-buys-share-of-nbls-melbourne-united-from-larry-kestelman-20180715-h12p6m

I don't know how much the other owners have

But the point is, these guys arent throwing away cash for the fun of it- especially the publicly owned ASX owner

Reply #774138 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Are you saying that their expenditure wouldn't be as high as estimated, or that they are spending a lot so must have a reason for doing so?

Reply #774140 | Report this post


D2.0  
Last month

Love how you all think everyone is playing for peanuts.
Sorry just cos you're envious doesn't make it so.
Guys who aren't even good enough for the NBL can go and play in the lesser leagues in Europe and Asia for bloody good money. They're certainly not going to pack up their families and move across the country, again, for less than they could make driving a bus.

I can assure you that most teams are struggling to comply with the Bench-Cap, and are compensating those players with perks, just to assemble a roster. That's why guys like Walker keep getting recycled.
It's also why Perth signed Vague and Wani to rostered spots.

And for their top players, it's open season.
Also need to understand that for the better players, the pay-scale isn't linier. If Import B is 50% better than import A, he's costing a lot more than 50% extra.
Guys like Cotton have turned their backs on lucrative European offers to stay in Australia. That doesn't come cheap.

Reply #774141 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Would love to see Cairns salary estimate.
Is it true all teams must spend minimum of 90% of the soft cap?

Reply #774142 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

[Are you saying that their expenditure wouldn't be as high as estimated, or that they are spending a lot so must have a reason for doing so?]

I'm saying there's no logical reason why they would be spending $5mil on salaries.

I think people lose sight of the dollars we're talking about

Only a small handful of AFL players make over $500k a year (About 8 per club, on average). The revenue of the AFL as an organisation is $700 million a year. They made a $25mil profit last year.

The clubs have other revenue streams- eg several Victorian clubs have revenue of around $20mil a year just from pokies.

Yet even in the AFL, only the top 20% of the players make 500k.

Which of those shareholders would be happy paying Prather, Long, or Trimble any more than that?

Reply #774143 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"these guys arent throwing away cash for the fun of it"

Owning a sports team for the purposes of tax write-offs is nothing new to the NBL.

Reply #774149 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

You still need to spend money in order to claim a deduction.

Someone is putting up the physical cash that ends up in the bank accounts of your Prather's and Trimbles.

Reply #774151 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Yeah, no shit. Whats your point?

Reply #774152 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

And, the more different owners there are, the less likely they'll accept frivolous spending and losses.

Reply #774155 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

this is a nothing story Joey wright brought up this same topic back in November 2016 after 4 straight losses sent the 36ers to the bottom of the ladder with a 3W-6L record. 15 matches later the 36ers had a 17-7 record and secured the minor premiership with a team most had finishing bottom 2 of the start of the season.


https://www.espn.com.au/nba/story/_/id/18090541/financial-gap-all-too-obvious-nbl-haves-nots

Reply #774157 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

LV, you're just rambling now.

Reply #774158 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

From that article....

"NBL general manager Jeremy Loeliger has admitted several teams are over the league's 'soft' $1.1 million salary cap and will have to contribute to an equalisation subsidy for struggling teams next season.

But Loeliger said talk of a two-tier competition with a division between rich and poor clubs was being proved wrong."

I'd say its the opposite now - its proved to be right. The equalisation is non-existent, the struggling clubs are getting worse, and the top tier teams have been allowed to spend whatever they want, which has been reflected on the ladder the past two seasons.

Reply #774161 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Can anyone copy and paste this article please? Pay wall


https://amp.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/basketball/rival-nbl-coaches-slam-sydney-kings-stacked-nbl-roster/news-story/4ccd1a3532680287e926431d23ae0cbf?__twitter_impression=true

Reply #774163 | Report this post


LV  
Last month

[Rival NBL coaches have accused the Sydney Kings of having a roster worth four million dollars more than any other team — despite being able to spend the same amount as the ladder leaders.

Perth coach Trevor Gleeson started the critictism after his side's 104-85 loss to the Kings last Sunday by saying that the Harbour City franchise had four imports.

Gleeson was including Sydney’s Brazilian shooting guard Didi Louzada as one of the team’s imports even though he is a Next Stars signing.

Next Stars players like LaMelo Ball and RJ Hampton aren’t included in the salary cap as the NBL pays their wage.

Adelaide coach Joey Wright then chimed in on Tuesday when he was asked how teams close the gap to Sydney.

Wright cheekily replied: "Four million dollars."

The 8-1 Kings are loaded with talent, including former NBA champion Andrew Bogut and ex-title-winning Melbourne United guard Casper Ware.

There is no doubting Sydney’s depth of talent but they are operating under the league rules.

Unlike the NRL’s salary cap limit, the NBL changed its salary cap setup from a “hard cap” of $1 million to a “soft cap” of $1.1 million, meaning teams may exceed the soft cap provided that they pay a salary equalisation subsidy.

These funds can be filtered down to franchises that don’t exceed the limit.

However this is a discretionary fund the NBL holds for required spending, which is different to the NBA where it’s a distributed fund across clubs.

Sydney chairman and owner Paul Smith responded to the jibes on Twitter, accusing rival teams of being bitter.

“Really?” Smith said.

“Geez, I didn’t see that coming? One coach says we have four imports. Another one says he needs four million. What’s with the fours? Tell you what - we have a great assistant coach from Perth (Adam Forde) and a player that couldn’t get a start in Adelaide (Deshon Taylor). We’re cool.”

In fairness, Sydney have bigger things to worry about ahead of Sunday’s blockbuster clash against LaMelo Ball and the Illawarra Hawks.

The Kings are preparing for a record crowd when they meet the Hawks at Qudos Bank Arena.

The highest ever regular season attendance for a single NBL game in Sydney is 12,050, while the biggest ever crowd for a standalone NBL game in Sydney is 14,569 (both set last season against Melbourne United).

The biggest crowd for a single NBL game is 15,336 between the Melbourne Tigers and South East Melbourne Magic at Rod Laver Arena in 1996.

These records could be broken while a huge international audience is also expected to tune in to watch Ball who some experts have already predicted could be the No.1 pick in next year’s NBA Draft.]

Not much there

Salary cap figure is years out of date too

Reply #774170 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Gleeson didnt criticise them, he stated facts.

Reply #774176 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Maybe Joey is salty that the Kings Haed Coach gets paid $4mill more than him?

:)

Reply #774179 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Gleeson scoffed at the next star program, now claims teams cheat with it. Such a flog.

Reply #774181 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

When did he say Sydney cheated?

Reply #774182 | Report this post


D2.0  
Last month

When is a cheat not a cheat?

As somebody once said, its only cheating if you get caught.

Considering that in the NBL the "rules" are whatever Larry lets a team get away with. saying that Sydney is within the rules doesn't really mean much.

Sure, all the Sydney fans can give claiming that Bogut is playing for love, that Ware and Moller moved for the weather, Newley & Lisch are there just for the privilege of playing with Bogut, and everyone else gets peanuts. But whether its $3.5 or $4M the simpl fact is that Sydney is once again outspending the rest of the league by a significant margin. Joey isn't wrong.

You also can't deny that the situation with Didi stinks like yesterday's turd.
After missing the start of the season, we're now seeing why he's already an NBA draftee. Such players have always been classified as imports and rightly so.
The sick joke of it is that lesser players who miss out on getting drafted, then come out here as their first proper pro gig, are treated as imports.
Not only is that rule change simply absurd, but the way it was done, only when Sydney wanted to bring in Didi, is nothing short of corrupt.

Reply #774187 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Sydney roster wouldn't be with in a million of Melbourne.

We all no that the only side that play for nothing is Perth for they love Gleeson. It’s the way he whinges to the refs that keeps all Perth players happy, they don’t need money.

By the way, Melbourne wanted Kay and even they baulked at what Perth paid.

Reply #774188 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Oh ok then.

Reply #774189 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last month

Norton moved west because of his love for Little Creatures beer, as well as the opportunity to come off the bench instead of start.

Reply #774193 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I assumed Kay and Norton were a package deal.

Reply #774194 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Yes, Kay and Norton wanted to continue playing together.
I don't know exactly what they are getting paid, but the interesting bit is that Perth didn't have to offer Kay more money. Perth only had to match what other teams were offering. The rest was down to the strength of the club.
To be fair, Nielsen probably had a bit to do with that, just hope the new guy is up to the task.

NB: Norton does start, when Martin is injured and when he retires.
He would NOT start for most other teams, except maybe Adelaide now that Sobey is gone. But in Perth he's found the perfect fit, a team that is configured for a defensive pass-first PG. He's allowed to make his moves offensively, but there's no pressure to carry the backcourt scoring.

Reply #774220 | Report this post


Jo Darc  
Last month

excuses excuses excuses Joey - fans starting to see it for what it is - jungle drums might start beating if they don't get at least one win this weekend

Reply #774281 | Report this post


Not excuses if it's true,

What’s it matter if it is four mill or 3.2 no point arguing the semantics like most of this thread is. End of the day it’s still over three times the soft cap.

This rich v poor agreement is only going to continue to get worse and the league will suffer if it carries on too much longer. Teams that are there for the rich teams will beat will eventually bleed fans and members,

Nbl could at least make cap rules public and transparent. The fact it’s all hidden info only leads to suspicions Melbourne and Sydney are getting massive legs up by the league. Perth not included they have built everything they have like teams should not get it handed to them

Reply #774307 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

#builtnotbought

Reply #774308 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

jungle drums might start beating if they don't get at least one win this weekend

Reply #774310 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Anyone with an ear close to the ground no that the league have been helping the less well off clubs.

You don't hear the clubs complaining.

It’s two coaches, one that never complained when his Brisbane side spent quadruple what the other sides spent and his side now still has a reasonable budget and he selects his players. When it all goes tits up, it’s I don’t have enough money.

The other after a loss to the kings and, they have four imports. Didi is not classified as an import and Taylor only just arrived so there first six games they played with two plus Didi and he was injured for two. This is the same coach that has and always have had the best or close to the best funded list in the competition. They were down and out a few seasons back but low and behold Mr Cotton turns up to win them a premiership halfway through the season, off course he wasn’t paid. Lmao.

Both these coaches are quality coaches but also top shelf whinges.

Reply #774312 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"Didi is not classified as an import "

But he should be.

Reply #774313 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

#313
When you own the league you can change the rules.

Reply #774315 | Report this post


Lovebroker  
Last month

I would be interested to know how much hand outs Hawks and Pans are getting? When you get a stream of welfare money you may not be as prudent with money as if it were your own.

Reply #774319 | Report this post


Andrew  
Last month

Greg Hire talks about salary caps, luxury taxes etc. Interesting perspective being on the players association. It's more towards the end of the audio.

All teams last season spent 90% of the cap which they are obligated to do. 5 of the teams spent more.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/perth-wildcats/the-dribble-podcast-greg-hire-on-retirement-life-and-interest-from-perth-wildcats-rivals-ng-b881381789z

Reply #774320 | Report this post


Jo  
Last month

Pains me to say it as a 6ers fan, but Joeys had 6 years and been given every chance, but results simply not good enough. We need to a fresh start ASAP or another season down the drain.

Reply #774520 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Say what you like fanbois - this league is once again becoming a joke.
The NBL has a long history of completely failing to capitalise on opportunities and this is no different. - Its sad that after all the good work that has been done - the money invested - and the stars that have come to play - the NBL has once again reverted to the bad old days.
Back in the nineties Basketball was fast becoming the most popular sport in Australia. - 3 out if 4 homes had a hoop on the garage and every 2nd kid was wearing Chicago Bulls merchandise. We had a big national league - prime time TV coverage (in an age when FTA was king) and the league growing in popularity.
So did the NBL do? - They allowed a couple of teams to rort the system and dominate. - Faced with unwinnable games - half the league either folded or went back to paying in the Bush Leagues.
Must love the fanboi logic - "Sydney aren't rorting the Salary Cap if we just get rid of the Cap" - Brilliant.
Adelaide have just given up trying to compete and will once again just try to ride it out until Sydney and Melbourne Collapse again.
Hawks have given up any pretence of being a Basketball Team and just become a sideshow - hoping to stay afloat.
Even Perth have clearly made a conscious decision that they're not going to try to match the Spending of Sydney and Melbourne

Reply #774770 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I know there ain't much to do in adelaide but please get off the meth mate.

Reply #774777 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Great to hear Phoenix coach Simon Mitchell call out Joey for his excuses in his presser. Stop making excuses about rosters and cap and refs when you lose and cop it on the fucking chin. Was music to my ears

Reply #774796 | Report this post




 

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