Red84
Last month

Roll out the Pork Barrel

The Bridget McKenzie scandal has raised the issue of parties using sports funding to win marginal electorates. Got me thinking about those wonderful sports arenas littered around Melbourne's sand belt and whether these would have ever been built if they were in "safe" electorates?

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Anonymous  
Last month

Total non story.

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Anonymous  
Last month

She needs to be sacked, simple.
What's the point in having a Sports Commission that recommends who gets what if she is just going to override for her parties own personal benefit?
There has to be checks and balances in the system, and there was. She just decided to become a dictator. Abuse of office....f*ck off.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Uh oh. Leftie dramatics alert.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Its actually a pretty significant story and doesn't really speak to partisan politics, unless you're defending her decision.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Yes she has to go. Roz Kelly did far less and was removed from the Keating government for similar. It's straight out corruption of out supposed democracy.

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Perthworld  
Last month

Reminds me of the Brisbane politician who had six figures of sports funding to hand out so allocated all of it to his local suburban rugby club (which he was heavily involved in) despite calls for it to be used to help save the Bullets when they were going under. Only years later was he reprimanded for it. Too late.

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Anonymous  
Last month

Its amazing that this is considered to be a "leftie" issue, when its taxpayer money being used for purely political gain. Yet, any spending on the ABC is an intolerable waste of your taxes?

I work in government grants. A minister changing the grant recipients against the wishes of the independent panel is grounds for removal for sure. Just as it was when Kelly did it back in the 90s

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Anonymous  
Last month

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_rorts_affair

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Anonymous  
Last month

I don't come to a basketball forum to debate politics.

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Anonymous  
Last month

No one is forcing you to.

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Go Dees  
Last month

Both parties do this same for infrastructure can't see what the problem is

If you live in a safe seat you get nothing

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Anonymous  
Last month

The problem is she should be sacked like previous people in there position. It's all so corruption.

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Anonymous  
Last month

I blame climate change

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sixtiesrockstar  
Last month

Typical political pointscoring. Trying to shame the other side when their party and themselves has done exactly the same thing. Are they going to ask for their own party members to be sacked for that? Don't think so which shows they are just hypocrites.

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Tag in off topic.

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Anonymous  
Last month

That anyone is trying to defend her actions is a sad situation.

The fact is there isn't evidence of the other side doing anything of this nature. If there is then at any level of government then they deserved to get sacked too.

Her actions has a massive impact on the work of good people in community sport, volunteers mostly who are good faith actors. This is a massive government betrayal.

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Anonymous  
Last month

"Don't think so which shows they are just hypocrites"

If you can show evidence that it's being done elsewhere, please do so we can discuss it. But in the meantime, the auditors report is pretty damning and there is no defence for what took place.

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KET  
Last month

To you partisan Liberals out there who act in hypocrisy saying it's partisan behaviour by the opposition, the inquiry is actually *bipartisan* in support. The inquiry has support of both Labor, Liberals (and other independents).

That makes it entirely NOT a witch hunt by opposition otherwise that same argument says Liberals are witch-hunting themselves. Herpderpness.

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UseTaHoop  
Last month

My only "political" take on this:

It's been going on for ages. It’s not even about “marginal” or “safe” seats, it’s about “bell weather” seats and other “special” seats.

A “bell weather” seat is one that all political pundits love. There are a small number (max 20) that regularly change hands, and that almost always vote with the party that wins government. Kingston in Adelaide and the Fleurieu is one.

Other “special” seats are those that have been lost to independents or minor parties, or had other weird stuff happen. Blue and red parties hate losing to independents more than they hate losing to each other. I am familiar with a couple of those seats. Manly Waringah fell to an independent last federal election. Mayo was considered to be the ancestral throne of the Downer family. Yankalilla is in Mayo, isn’t it? Unfortunately for the Downers, we live in a small l liberal democracy, without the ability to hold power by Divine Right.

The best thing to do is live in a “bell weather” seat, and agitate for services including sports facilities. If you’re really good at it and become a popular local figure, you could get elected as a local independent. Snout. In. Trough. The food and setting in The Great Hall in Parliament House is outstanding, and well worth it. (I’ve only dined there as a guest, not a pollie). If you win 3 elections you get the gold card travel and overly entitled pollie pension too.


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Anonymous  
Last month

Shame on townsville basketball being awarded nearly 500k for flood repairs. What a rort

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Red84  
Last month

Recently i came across some polling of Canadians, that asked Liberals and conservatives whether the approved or disapproved of various publjc figures.For instance when presented with the author margaret atwood, 90% of Liberals approve, 90% of conservatives disapproved. Similar results for same sex marriage, Justin Trudeau etc. Only on one subject did all canadians unite over - the national ice hockey team. So i have sympathy for those who don't want politics discussed in this forum. Because they understand the power of community sport in fostering social cohesion. But i think it is equally important not to standy idly by while certain politicians brazenly embroil sports funding in their patronage schemes. Because this practice not only betrays taxpayers, votrrs and the thousands of volunteers, it also contaminates one of the few forums in which Australians can come together. Just because the practice of using sports funding as a tool of politics may be inevitable as some have noted, it does not follow that it needs to be prevalent. We should always resist it and minimize its occurance.

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KET  
Last month

Re posts above: it's 100% right that marginals/bell weathers get more attention and benefits than those where we know what the result will be through thick and thin.

To that extent, the sports funding thing doesn’t surprise. We see a lot of this stuff in campaigns on the key battle grounds "you get $x for your thing you badly need"

The problem with this particular scenario is there is a system in place for applying for grants and they’ve blatantly, by the looks of it, given those grants to marginal seats. That’s basic corrupt behaviour.

If you’re a Liberal MP in a less marginal seat you won’t be happy being screwed, and it makes it hard to justify to your own constituents. It puts them in a bad position.

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Anonymous  
Last month

There is no looks about it. The auditor general has said its corruption. Any one in private business would be sent to jail.

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Anonymous  
Last month

The attorney general Christian Porter to do a review even though he got a million dollars for his seat. Morrison got over two hundred thousand for his mates local football ball club, Mosman rowing club that very poor area of Sydney got five hundred thousand::)). If this had happened in nsw they would be in jail like eddy Obeid and his mates.

Mosman area is the second most wealthy seat in the country, Abbott former seat.

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KET  
Last month

I thought it was the most wealthy. Where's the most? Higgins because of Toorak?

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Anonymous  
Last month

I believe the most wealthy is Turnbull old seat in the Sydney eastern suburbs.

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Anon  
Last month

"Mosman rowing club that very poor area of Sydney got five hundred thousand"

The Mosman Rowers is a very nice place to eat dinner overlooking the bay. It's a very underprivileged area. The ferry dockies earn less than million per year.

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Reality  
Last month

This happens at every level of government heading into elections and has done since elections began.

Certain projects get funding ahead of others due to swing seats/sitting members etc often ahead of the greater good of the community.

Think East West Link in Melbourne as the biggest one in recent memory...$900million to not build something to try and save a few inner city seats for Labour against the greens when those who'd use the link live in eastern generally Lib voting seats.

plenty of other examples of this type of thing happening with fund allocations being cancelled or moved to other project after an election on a small scale.

I'm part of a bball club that had this thing happen to which delayed a venue expansion for a number of years when the Libs got back in as they allocated the funds elsewhere to a project that was more pressing! so it happens on both sides.

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Cram  
Last month

The difference is here, the funding was supposed to be assessed by an independent panel, but their recomendations were thrown out and changed by the minister.

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Anonymous  
Last month

"This happens at every level of government heading into elections and has done since elections began."

Except what you just described isn't the issue in this situation.

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KET  
Last month

The difference is here, the funding was supposed to be assessed by an independent panel, but their recomendations were thrown out and changed by the minister.


IMO that's the clarity of the difference between a party deciding what their campaign/policies will be and where they will allocate funds vs corruption of a scheme.

We don't have an expectation that parties run their campaign decisions past an independent panel, it's just ludicrous. East-West Link decision, whether you agree with it or not, that's a decision Vic Labor made in their campaign. That's not corruption. To that extent, both sides of politics will maximise their vote by targeting bell-weathers or maintaining their own seats vs funding seats they will never win. It's just blatant obvious politics.

A fund that is set aside for a particular purpose to be assessed by an independent panel and that independence is discarded? That's an entirely different proposition and this is where corruption starts to become an issue. When something like this occurs, it's usually bipartisan/across politics that people become unhappy hence the bipartian support for inquiry.

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Camel 31  
Last month

PM has asked for investigation, just then on breaking news...

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KET  
Last month

#ProofThatScoMoIsADramaticLeftie

#TypialPointScoring

#ScoMoIsActingForLaborTryingToShameTheOtherParty

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Red84  
Last month

KET writes: "We don't have an expectation that parties run their campaign decisions past an independent panel, it's just ludicrous."

Not really "ludicrous" because of Australia's federal system of government and the fact that taxes are collected by the Feds from taxpayers based in the states and the state governments do the bulk of the spending.

Due to this arrangement - and the fact that taxpayers in NSW and Vic subsidize spending in Tas and SA - there is a raft of independent bodies who apply criteria assessing "need" and the quality of service provision in different regions. The old Commonwealth Grants Commission is probably the best known example.

The point is - without such bodies, federal-state relations will break down pretty quickly. As for this "sports rorts affair version 2", following the Roz Kelly resignation, a system had built up surrounding how need was assessed, and the criteria set for awarding projects. This system was not in existence when Roz Kelly was minister, but WAS in place when Bridget did her thing. Aside from the larger amounts of money involved, it was Bridget's obvious disregard for fiscal rules that makes her behaviour egregious.
She should resign forthwith. And Morrison and Murdoch should stop defending her.

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KET  
Last month

Either you are trying to argue the Victorian state government disagreeing with federal government and deciding not to build the east-west link as a campaign policy is "corruption" - which is ludicrous, or you misunderstood what I said.

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Red84  
Last month

Situation for public road projects is very different than in case of funding community sports. Roads can generate $ from tolls so there is a wider array of funding options for road projects - including funding from the private sector as well as issuing debt. As such state govts can make political promises to get a freeway built because it can independently choose to tip in larger portions of state funds into the project or provide debt guarantees. Community sports don't generate income streams, which is why they are funded as grants. State/local members can make all the promises they want, it is just that they - too ften - are promising to spend funds of taxpayers located in other states. Hence the controls.

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KET  
Last month

You didn't read what I posted! I think you’re replying to me just to spiel.

I agreed with Crams post.

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Red84  
Last month

KET
You fail to understand the difference between public roads vs community sporting facilities in terms of public finance. And that failure leads you to suggest that political discretion in one area can be replicated in another. It cannot.

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KET  
Last month

You're doing a lot of writing and zero reading.

"leads you to suggest that political discretion in one area can be replicated in another."

No, I literally said the opposite.


IMO that's the clarity of the difference between a party deciding what their campaign/policies will be and where they will allocate funds vs corruption of a scheme.

A fund that is set aside for a particular purpose to be assessed by an independent panel and that independence is discarded? That's an entirely different proposition and this is where corruption starts to become an issue.


Can someone please help this nuffy to read?

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Reality  
Last month

Think you'll see road projects getting completed, schools getting upgrades and the like in key seats all the time.

Pork Barreling is done by all sides/parties and has done since time began.

The sporting clubs that benefited are surely happy with the outcome and the communities are happy to get the grants/funding.

The need/want of communities is always subjective depending on a point of view so can;t really see how this is an issue seems like a blow up about nothing!



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Anonymous  
Last month

Nsw ICAC would put these people in jail, don't get me started on the 80 million water buy back that went straight into the caymans island account.

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Anonymous  
Last month

"
The need/want of communities is always subjective depending on a point of view so can;t really see how this is an issue seems like a blow up about nothing!"

Except there was a process to make sure it wasn't subjective, and the Minister overruled decisions from that process to feather the nests of marginal seats. The issue is her interfering when she simply wasn't allowed.

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Anon  
Last month

Lord Acton wrote:
"All power tends to corrupt. Absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely."

True then. True now. Will remain true.

Hence the need for checks and balances politically, and an independent public service to give “frank and fearless advice... with neither fear nor favour... without bias”.

Unfortunately this encroaching politicisation of the public service (and the military too) risks corrupting our very democracy. No political party is above the democratic process itself.

We can all see the abuses of this system, by both red and blue sides. The only possible positive out of this comes from strong independent candidates driving a hard bargain for the needs of their electorates (or a whole state in the case of a certain Tasmanian).

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Anonymous  
Last month

AFP also look like an arm of government now. ^^^^

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Red84  
Last month

In NSW, if funds were awarded on the basis of need rather than political utility, then in the metro area (i can't speak
of NSW country) the clubs of Liverpool, Bankstown, Penrith and even Sydney would get a lot more funds. This region has a large population and low involvement in the game - for BA it is "low hanging fruit" in developing the game.

As I mentioned earlier - the fact that top class facilities in Victoria lie in the sandbelt, where elections are won or lost, is not a coincidence.

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KET  
Last month

These days they're won or lost in Queensland

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