Isaac
Last week

Cotton considering two offers, leaning towards Perth return




Expecting a decision next week.

Topic #47247 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Last week

Lol

Reply #806280 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

That article says that players earning over $200K take a 50% pay cut, but isn't it just the amount they earn above $200K is cut by 50%?

Reply #806287 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Most have renegotiated to back end

Reply #806290 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Wildcats handing out "signing bonuses". So cotton takes a pay cut but signed a new deal with a $300k signing bonus. Bendat buying another championship for Perth fans

Reply #806295 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

lol ok everyone the new definition of buying a championship is when you keep a guy who has already been on the team for years

Reply #806296 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

I like how they just made up details of the contract but didn't even think to see if it made any sense.

Reply #806298 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Wildcats doing side deals. Cheats

Reply #806299 | Report this post


D2.0  
Last week

If you read the full article, it says that a lot of the players who didn't "opt out" have simply renegotiated their contracts.

Johnson was, I think, the first to be publicly announced, but most are doing the same thing.


Perth were obviously going to do what they can to keep him. As Trev admitted, he has built a team around Cotton.

And end of the day, Cotton will possibly (again) accept slightly less than he could have received elsewhere, to stay in Perth with his family.
Just remains to be seen how well their new offer stacks up against International.

What do you think we would get in Europe, for a full season?

Reply #806300 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Chances there is even a season?
Players still get paid?
Surely that's a gamble in itself

Reply #806301 | Report this post


KET  
Last week

Essentially the stars are still likely to stay in the league and get paid through renegotiation, the other tiers of players who are less likely to get a spot overseas and more risk adverse carry the burden of salary cuts in order to deliver reduction in expenditure to help meet the reduction in revenue anticipated.

Reply #806302 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Lmfao at #299.

Reply #806303 | Report this post


Lovebroker  
Last week

Money does not buy you a Championship.

Examples :

- Sydney Kings 3 years under Gaze and last year.
- Melbourne United 2 years under Demopolous and the last 2 seasons.
- Adelaide 36'ers spending the 4th most, doesn't even make the playoffs.

Conversely, having little money doesn't guarantee you failure.

Examples :
- Illawarra Hawks 2016/17, Cairns Taipans finished SECOND that year. Neither Melbourne nor Sydney made the playoffs.
- Cairns Taipans this past season.
- to a letter extent, Brisbane Bullets season before last.

People can accuse them of buying championships all they want but there is proof that simply pumping money into a team like the Kings did does not net results by itself.

Reply #806305 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Probably keep Cotton lose Kay, still weakens Perth badly.

Reply #806306 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Perth spends more than everyone

Reply #806307 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

"What do you think we would get in Europe, for a full season?"

did everyone forget koberulz told us there would not be any season overseas?

Reply #806308 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last week

Perth spends more than everyone

Oh I can play this game! Let me have a go:

Sydney spend the least and make profits.

Reply #806309 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

"did everyone forget koberulz told us there would not be any season overseas?"
He knows it all. Covid expert, NBL expert. Who are we mere mortals to argue.

Reply #806312 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

[Oh I can play this game! Let me have a go:
Sydney spend the least and make profits]

I can play this game too, Perthworld is the type of guy that buys Perth wildcat doormats and paper cups like his 10 years old but reality is he is the male version of a 'cat lady'

Reply #806316 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Its pretty sad that some people are so insecure that they cant go a day without resorting to irrelevant personal attacks on other posters.

Reply #806318 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Spain and Israel signing lots of players, they are obviously confident about their leagues going ahead. Cotton could end up on same team as Oliver, now that would be exciting.

Reply #806320 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

I'm sure Perthworld is harmless. Comes across as a single individual sadly.

Hope Cotton signs with Perth.

Reply #806321 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Another irrelevant personal attack.

Reply #806326 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Earlier this week

When was the last time Ulgon was actually right about something?
He seems to be the Damien Barrett of the NBL.

Reply #806327 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this week

Spain and Israel signing lots of players, they are obviously confident about their leagues going ahead.
I don't know what's going on in Spain, but Israel hasn't even finished last season yet.

Reply #806328 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

"When was the last time Ulgon was actually right about something?
He seems to be the Damien Barrett of the NBL."

Great call. He is only right about Moldovan's guys as he gets spoon feed information about those players from him directly - and Cotton is not represented by Moldovan.

Reply #806329 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Olgun literally broke the news of both Cotton and Ware opting out.

Is there an example of something he was wrong about?

Reply #806330 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Israel season is finished but they are signing for the 2020-21 season at great pace.

Reply #806333 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

"Olgun literally broke the news of both Cotton and Ware opting out."

Bryce Cotton broke the news that he was opting out, didn't he?

Reply #806334 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Earlier this week

Israel season is finished but they are signing for the 2020-21 season at great pace.


No it hasn't they're currently signing players for the rest of the 2019-20 season.

Reply #806335 | Report this post


Lovebroker  
Earlier this week

So far there is really 'not much' news.

The Wildcats have made it clear they will try hard to keep Cotton, that together with his family, familiarity with the Wildcats and standing in the league would normally make staying one of the more attractive options, barring huge disparity in money.


Reply #806336 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Depending on how Europe gets back to basketball, and it looks like all euro league teams want to start up again, Cotton could get as much as 50g US a month, big money from one of the euro big club teams, while you would think the money will be lower than last season billionaire owners would class Cotton as nearly nba talent and pay.
50g Us is about 79g Australian times 9 months plus car and housing after tax. His around 650g Australian before tax for 7 months is less but the difference while still being substantial is not to bad as he would stay in Australia. Perth are probably working on system to keep him on that sort money, maybe offer him player coach role as no salary cap on coaches, get his wife a job in front office for top dollar etc.

Reply #806339 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Back ending his contract is another option.

Reply #806341 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Getting his wife a job in the front office would be scrutinised by the league. He's not going to be player coach either.

Reply #806342 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

The problem with back ending contracts is if the league falls over you miss out on your big pay day, the tax spread is also difficult. A lot of the Singapore slingers players had most of there big pay day in the last season of their contract but the slingers pulled out, no final year payment. The league isn't looking that strong at present so Cotton will have to be cautious.

Reply #806344 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Earlier this week

I think Joey Wright used to get his full season's money at the start of the season too in case the Sixers folded mid-season.

Reply #806345 | Report this post


Kevin Booth  
Earlier this week

@339

imports get 92c per 100c USD-AUD conversion.

Reply #806350 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

who would be easier to bring back White who is friends with cotton or plumlee who is on a muilt million dollar nba contact and doesn't need the money

Reply #806352 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this week

Israel season is finished but they are signing for the 2020-21 season at great pace.
This is completely untrue.

Reply #806353 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Earlier this week

As expected, players have just used the opt-out to get even more leverage and $ from their teams I'm sure;

Whilst I know its the player's right to opt out and explore and yes it may make business sense; the sad part is that they are essence being rewarded for managing to extract more from the team and putting them in a more risky financial position (versus those that took it on the chin and accepted the pay cut to help the team);

Reply #806356 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this week

(versus those that took it on the chin and accepted the pay cut to help the team);

Firstly, whilst its impossible to know the full truth, what we're hearing is that many players didn't take it on the chin, but have instead renegotiated their contracts.

Without knowing the details, it's hard to say if there is really any difference, in practical terms, as to whether or not a player opted-out.
So Cotton and Kay are in the opt-out category, but they can still renegotiate a contract extension to stay. They can walk away and play in Europe, but many players would have had an out-clause anyway, and traditionally Cats have not held players that wanted to leave for Europe.

I don't know exactly how the sponsorship deals work, whether the "Player Sponsors" are directly contributing a significant amount, but I can't help wonder if maybe this has been a tactic to shake more money from the trees?
And/or a way of deflecting blame if the player leaves? Kay is coming off a stellar 2 years, and was always going to be a likely Euro prospect. Blaming the NBL's salary cuts is more palatable.

Reply #806357 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

"his is completely untrue." yes that's already been cleared up. No need to do it again.

Reply #806360 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Koberulz likes correcting others.

Reply #806363 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this week

This is expected

Anticipated decrease in revenue has meant a necessary decrease in expenditure to ensure viability for clubs league-wide.

I think people assumed that everyone would end up taking a pay cut in line with the agreement, and that would drive stars out.

What has actually occurred is the majority have taken the pay cut, while the stars have renegotiated to still receive their payday. So those with less leverage have taken the hit, those with more leverage who could have possibly played elsewhere, may still play in the NBL receiving their $$$.

From an NBL perspective this works well, less expenditure, but stars for the most part are kept.

Reply #806365 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Money does buy you championships!

Perth been in the playoffs for so long because they've been by far and away the biggest & best funded club whilst every other team has changed owners/brands/gone broke etc over the same period.

Reply #806366 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Israel league is signing players for the 2020-21 season, there is nothing untrue about it. Oliver for a start, they are going ahead full steam, other leagues as well.

Reply #806367 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this week

Well yeah, nobody goes "we'll perform better with instability and a budget roster"

Everyone knows the competitive edge a strong stable club with the finances to compete with any other club will have.

It's for us to pray that each club has financial viability to contend properly, it's up for the NBL to work as hard as they can to strike that balance between getting good talent in, and ensuring the mechanics/league rules are setup to maximise a competitive and relatively even league.

EPL nonsense won't work here.

Reply #806368 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

I'd say Perth would represent an EPL side, always on top and winning multiple premierships. There spend on players and staff over the last 10 seasons would be far greater than any other team which insures success.

Reply #806369 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this week

Absolutely. That tells you the state of the NBL the last 20 years - bad administration, lots of clubs folding etc.

The NBL has represented that in a sense, it has not done well at all up until 3 years ago or so.

Now, there's a real level of good competition, Perth aren't on their own in investing heavily.

However, it will take some time for other teams to get to the kind of stability and well run organisation that is Perth, that won't happen at the click of the fingers.

Reply #806370 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

"that won't happen at the click of the fingers."

Unfortunately some clubs (and the league) thinks that the click of a mouse button is what is going to help them grow. Social media interactions is the new metric, whereas the Wildcats continued success is due to their fan engagement eg clinics, school visits etc.

Reply #806372 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this week

Bendat's long-term ownership created stability, and allowed him and the Cats to hire the right people, and recruit (mostly) the right players. And yes, "success breeds success."
30 years of play-offs gives you a strong & deep supporter base. That justifies a premium venue, then fills it. Together that gives you a strong budget baseline.
Finals appearances make you more money, especially grand finals.
And yes, having a strong, successful, and professional organisation, helps attract and retain the right players. And yes, it does mean that they have something other than cash to offer.

Reply #806374 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this week

As expected, players have just used the opt-out to get even more leverage and $ from their teams
The rules expressly forbid that.

Israel league is signing players for the 2020-21 season, there is nothing untrue about it. Oliver for a start, they are going ahead full steam
This is completely false. Repeating it will not make it become true.

The season was suspended in mid-March and is scheduled to resume in a month or so.

Cam Oliver was not signed for the next Israeli season, he was signed to complete the one that started last October.

"his is completely untrue." yes that's already been cleared up. No need to do it again.
Apparently there is.

Reply #806380 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this week

I'd say Perth would represent an EPL side, always on top


Are they always on top? Even under the Cotton years they finished at top of the table ONCE. His first year the Wildcats were one game above .500 and only got to 3rd place on percentages.

The year after that, 3rd place again. Followed by 1st place.

The this past season 2nd place.

Can you tell us more about how having potentially the best player in the league in those years 'always kept them on top'?


There spend on players and staff over the last 10 seasons would be far greater than any other team


I am open to this idea, I really am, but there is no proof. Again I am the rare few that Nick Marvin and Troy Georgiou won't show their books to.

which insures success


The Wildcats must have the worse insurance money can buy, as they have been unsuccessful as they have been successful in your prescribed timeframe.

I think you meant ensures.



Reply #806381 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this week

The rules expressly forbid that.


I can see you'll never become a lawyer in your life, Jesus i'd be rich if I made a dollar out of every time you misinterpreted things and then proceed to presented as fact.

It has been made clear that some players have re-negotiated contracts. Whether they opt in or opt out and back in, there is nothing preventing this.

Reply #806382 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this week

Can you tell us more about how having potentially the best player in the league in those years 'always kept them on top'?


They get it done when it counts.

Ask the 36ers what 1st in the regular seasons means.

Reply #806383 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this week

It has been made clear that some players have re-negotiated contracts. Whether they opt in or opt out and back in, there is nothing preventing this.
There can't really be anything preventing the mutual tearing up of a contract, but the opt out rules are designed to avoid giving players the leverage you mentioned.

Reply #806384 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this week

So exactly what I said is exactly the case - star players leverage the ability to pursue options overseas to renegotiate a better contract and those who don't have the overseas opportunities or are more risk-adversed in respected of travel are the ones that bear the cuts.

Reply #806385 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this week

I don't know the EXACT wording or the finer details of the rules.

I recall the gist of it was that if the player returns, he must remain on the same terms as per the contract.

There can be several interpretations of this.

1) You must come back to your existing contract no changes.

2) You can tear up you contract but for this season you must still be paid the exact same as per torn contract what other back ended deals you do is none of our concern.

3) The rule is a guide only and is disregarded if both parties agree to tear up contract, and player can now be paid anything divided by 2.

Reply #806386 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

Who cares where Perth finishes in the regular season it's when it matters is when Perth finishes on top

Reply #806388 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this week

Essentially, the mechanics is aimed at not giving players a right to vitiate their contract and head to some other NBL club (sorry no Cotton to Kings!). However, a mechanism was put in place to allow players to pursue overseas opportunities.

That doesn't affect ability to renegotiate/extend a contract or mutually terminate a contract. That's still in place.

That effectively gives a player like Cotton or Johnson the ability, or leverage, to go "i'll look elsewhere for a better payday" using the opt-out mechanic, and force the NBL club to use the renegotiation/extension mechanism to get the player better terms.

Johnson was able to leverage that without utilising the opt-out, he probably used the situation to get that long term stability, while Cotton may well come back with a better payment situation.

If you're not a star you probably 1) don't have overseas opportunities in this climate and 2) less likely to strong arm your NBL club into paying you more, so you will likely take that pay cut on the chin.

In essence, stars have leverage to still get their payday or better terms, the rest take the heat of the pay cuts.

That's how I view the situation at least.

Reply #806389 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this week

Of course, if all teams lose their stars they end up in the same place anyway, it's somewhat of a prisoner's dilemma in that regard.

The additional marquee player spot adds to the ability of local players to renegotiate without really costing their teams anything, too.

Reply #806391 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this week

Makes sense KET thanks.

Reply #806392 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this week

"Are they always on top? "

I think that's a fair assessment of recent history. I base this on the regular season results plus finals results.

Over the last 7 seasons, Perth's average rank at the end of the regular season was 2.1. The next highest average rank over that period was Melbourne with 3.3, followed by Adelaide on 3.6. No other team averaged better than 4.

Perth was the only team to finish top more than once -they were top 3 times. Moreover, they finished top 2 on 4 occasions. Melbourne and Adelaide each finished top 2 three times. No other team finished top 2 more than once.

Perth played finals 7 time over that period. Melbourne played finals 5 times and Adelaide 4 times. No other team played finals more than 3 times.

Perth won 5 championships, Melbourne 1 and New Zealand won 1.

Reply #806404 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this week

Precisely - interestingly, aside from Perth - Melbourne and Adelaide would be the most stable spenders and clubs during that 7 year period aside from NZ who could be said underperformed perhaps but they had a damn good period before that.

Cairns, Hawks budget aides, Sydney and Brisbane were "reintroduced" during this 7 year period. SEM didn't exist until this year.

The point is pretty emphatically made

Reply #806408 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Earlier this week

Always on top means 100% of the time.

You have just outlined how they are not always on top.

Reply #806414 | Report this post


Alex  
Earlier this week

Perth spent the most, they just buy championships. I looked at their memberships prices and they are by far the dearest by all teams.

Reply #806452 | Report this post


koberulz  
Yesterday

Supply and demand is a thing.

Reply #806457 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

"Perth spent the most, they just buy championships. I looked at their memberships prices and they are by far the dearest by all teams."

they don't want a fair competition and they will fork out big bucks to keep it unfair even though it kills other teams. once every other team goes broke trying to be competitive cats fans will reach the ultimate goal of being the only team in the league and winning every title every year.

Reply #806466 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

Most comps in the world have a few superior teams and the rest hope to avoid relegation. It's called backing your team regardless. As much as Perth fans rattle on like lunatics and talk bullshit annoys me you can’t help but admire the way they have built the whole wildcats organisation up. Like Liverpool though in the premiership they will get to a time of drought and go years between drinks.

Reply #806475 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Yesterday

Ewww Liverpool, no. I doubt we have to wait 30+ years for a title. Unlike them we don't let it slip, it's not in our club culture.

Reply #806482 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

" will reach the ultimate goal of being the only team in the league and winning every title every year."

Why would we want that? There are currently nine teams, soon to be ten, yet we win a title every year anyway. We prefer to mix it up so we can destroy the hopes of each team's fans year after year.

Reply #806487 | Report this post


KET  
Yesterday

We prefer to mix it up so we can destroy the hopes of each team's fans year after year.


Can someone refresh my memory re how that went vs NZ Breakers?

Reply #806488 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Yesterday

We give credit where credit is due - NZB were a great side with a shorter dynasty than ours but at least made a worthy opponent. The rest of the league has been trash of late. Year after year of turn-takers making GF appearances and bringing the weak sauce. Yawn.

Reply #806490 | Report this post


KET  
Yesterday

Year after year?

But Perth brought an equal amount of weaksauce in 2011,2012,2013,2015,2018.

Amend "year after year" to "year then year off then year then year off"

Reply #806493 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

Extremely petty to say that any team that made nothing less than semi finals in the past decade (well, three decades really) brought "weak sauce"

Reply #806495 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

In KET's mind, making outlandish statements about Perth wanting to literally be the last team standing is ok but if you respond with something facetiously then it needs to be scrutinised and torn apart immediately!

Reply #806497 | Report this post


KET  
Yesterday

Perth wanting to literally be the last team standing, what are you on about?

Reply #806507 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

Can't you read KET? Its about half a dozen posts above this one.

Reply #806515 | Report this post


KET  
Yesterday

Not having read and not able to read are two different things, obviously

The post Nazi over here demanding everyone read every post!

Reply #806516 | Report this post


KET  
Yesterday

" I also find it really interesting that players are negotiating contracts that are competitive with Euro deals; there's been at least a dozen renegotiations since the salary-cutting measures were agreed on. Makes you question how cash-strapped these big teams actually are."

From Olgun

Reply #806518 | Report this post


koberulz  
Yesterday

There's an extra marquee spot, so you can pay locals more while spending less.

That said, richer teams renegotiating doesn't say anything about poorer teams.

Reply #806519 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

I actually quoted the "last man standing" part in my post (which you responded to) so yeah I'm going to go with you either can't read properly, or you saw a pro-Cats comment and had to jump all over while ignoring the context.

Reply #806520 | Report this post


KET  
Yesterday

You just sound like a Perth troll, they are as regular as the corona these days

Reply #806522 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

Sorry Perth fans but the closest thing the NBL has had to a dynasty was the 2003-2005 Kings and the 2011-2013 Breakers. Both those teams threepeated which Perth has never done.

Reply #806523 | Report this post


koberulz  
Yesterday

Kings: Three titles and five grand finals in six years, then out of the league.
Breakers: Four titles and five grand finals in six years, then missed the playoffs two out of three years and were swept in their only appearance.
Wildcats: Five titles in seven years, haven't missed the top four in over a decade.

Reply #806524 | Report this post


KET  
Yesterday

Breakers and wildcats count as dynasties

Similar to spurs in nba

Reply #806525 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

Kings: Threepeated
Breakers: Threepeated
Wildcats: Didn't

Reply #806526 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

Anyone saying five titles in seven years ISN'T a dynasty is a special kind of stupid.

Reply #806527 | Report this post


D2.0  
Yesterday

Just imagine what Sydney might have achieved (recently) if they hadn't saddled themselves with Muppet coaches.
It's weird. Nobody in Australia thought Gaze could coach, and despite this being proven, they persisted with him for three years.
Then overlooked local talent, to appoint another muppet.

This virus has certainly thrown a spanner into everything, but other teams need to get their shit together, and start building some consistency.

Reply #806528 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Yesterday

Ewww Liverpool, no. I doubt we have to wait 30+ years for a title. Unlike them we don't let it slip, it's not in our club culture.


Turn it up....every team has had a decent drought including Perth. Any real Perth supporter would recognise that.

Reply #806529 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Yesterday

Hopefully Liverpool break there drought with two more wins.

Perth certainly been the best team last twenty years but Sydney and NZ had good runs as well. Adelaide like Liverpool as well, long time since success.

Reply #806531 | Report this post


Perthworld  
A few hours ago

Turn it up....every team has had a decent drought including Perth.

First you used Liverpool as an example who are 30 years and counting in drought. Now you've changed it to 'decent' whatever that means, since no NBL club has ever waited that long. So it's the latter then?

Reply #806593 | Report this post


Perthworld  
A few hours ago

In KET's mind, making outlandish statements about Perth wanting to literally be the last team standing is ok but if you respond with something facetiously then it needs to be scrutinised and torn apart immediately!

Yep.
Kings: Three titles and five grand finals in six years, then out of the league.
Breakers: Four titles and five grand finals in six years, then missed the playoffs two out of three years and were swept in their only appearance.
Wildcats: Five titles in seven years, haven't missed the top four in over a decade.

By summarising it this way it shows what the 'Cats have achieved clearly outshines those two three-peats despite the comments above to the contrary. GOAT NBL dynasty. More to come now with Cotton back too.

Reply #806594 | Report this post




 

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