Anonymous
Two months ago

Cotton deal worth 2 million

https://thewest.com.au/sport/nbl/bryce-cotton-signs-mega-contract-with-wildcats-to-keep-him-in-perth-for-next-three-seasons-ng-b881558973z

Perth
Daylight
Melbourne
Sydney
.. the rest

Topic #47254 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Very cheap considering is actual worth.

Reply #806587 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

^^ Jack?

Reply #806588 | Report this post


koberulz  
Two months ago

If he was on 600k previously, as has been reported, that would be 1.8 million over three years and the actual phrasing is "about 2 million" not "2 million", so it's not actually that remarkable.

Reply #806589 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What are the figures over years 2 and 3? They must be at least 700k a year

Reply #806590 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

If he becomes a citizen most of his wages will be in the marquee bracket, Perth have done it again.

Reply #806591 | Report this post


TB  
Two months ago

3 imports down to 2 so you can pay him part of Terriko/Plumlees salary.

Reply #806600 | Report this post


KET  
Two months ago

Remarkable in the context of the salary cap though.

If you have a club like Cairns paying the salary cap (roughly $1.1mil?) and no further, Cotton would be taking up about 55-60% of that on his own!

Wonder what kind of coin Machado will get?

Cotton's three-year deal is understood to be worth about $2 million, but no other player has been forced to take a pay cut to fit him back in.


What does that actually mean? That the NBL cuts are in place which have been taken by everyone else signed (except Kay who opted out), but that no further cuts were taken? Or that Perth renegotiated everyone to receive higher $$$ to avoid the sting of the NBLPA pay cut?

Reply #806601 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The guy could easily get over 1mill per season in Europe, maybe 1.5.

Larkin is on 2.8 mill

Reply #806602 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think the salary cap will jump up to 1.6 mill in 21/22

Reply #806603 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

ever team needs multi year import ( maybe became a citizen)

Sydney Deshon Taylor
Brisbane Patterson as Marquee
Cairns Scott Machado as Marquee
SEM Roberson
36ers or Hawks DJ Newbill
UNITED Long as marquee . Prather I think is done
Breakers Hopson as Marquee

Reply #806611 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Cotton got a pay rise to come back!

Reply #806619 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Cool. good for Perth, he's the best player in the comp and deserves to get paid.

Reply #806621 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Thats the nature of sport. The tops players make matchups exciting and draw crowd interest. They get the spoils.

Reply #806625 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

could u see Cam Bairstow as a replacement for Kay

Reply #806630 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Cotton gets a pay rise
No one takes a pay cut
They spending more than Melbourne and Sydney

Reply #806632 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

That's not proof of anything in regards to team's spending.

Reply #806635 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The Hawks should have signed him.

Reply #806640 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

They back end the deal to the last of his two seasons, he's naturalised and becomes the marquee so most does not go to the cap. He can split his tax up over a five year period so all are happy.
Professional organisation Perth even if they are bitches.

Reply #806641 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

How does the tax splitting thing work when the NBL year is basically the same as the financial year?

Reply #806646 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I'm no accountant but sports people in general can split there tax I believe over five years to adjust for good and bad years. It makes sense as there salary can vary so much.

Reply #806652 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Reading between the lines, sounds like Bendat stepped in to pay the luxury tax.

Reply #806654 | Report this post


Bol  
Two months ago

They would have had extra room in the cap with kay and white possibly not returning and one less import spot available for next season. Its not that hard to believe no one else needed to take a pay cut. Not to mention the ability to back end contracts i expected the deal to be over 2 million

Reply #806656 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"Cotton got a pay rise to come back!" Yes what a joke. Playerxs salaries get cut next season by 40%. So if he was on 600K (bullshit) that means he gets $240k next season and you can work out the rest. Utter mismanagement by the NBL yet again. No wonder Perth is so hated.

Reply #806663 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Perth is hated because you can't grasp maths?

Reply #806669 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

50% cut on 600g, yes it's bullshit.

Reply #806683 | Report this post


Cornholio  
Two months ago

40% off 600K = $240K?? Lol.
Something is wrong with the education system.

Reply #806688 | Report this post


D2.0  
Two months ago

STILL getting less than Bogut or Ware was.

Cotton was on $500k. That was cut to $250k.
He would have gotten more for his next contract anyway. So, without Covid, he probably would have received around $1.7~1.8M over the 3-year period.
A $2M deal, equates to $1.75M after the covid cut in the first year.

The difference with Sydney is that Ware wasn't really worth the money he was on, so I SUSPECT Sydney weren't interested in renegotiating upwards.

And yes, as has been discussed from the beginning, once naturalised Cotton will be treated as a Marquee for super-tax purposes.

Reply #806714 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Two months ago

Cotton was on $600k this past season.

Reply #806716 | Report this post


D2.0  
Two months ago

No, he had a 3 yr deal worth roughly $1.5M.

Reply #806777 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

My understanding is someone on $600K wouldn't be cut to $300K, rather that every dollar they earned over $200K would be halved. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pay cuts are like our tax system, you lose a greater percentage as you move into higher brackets.

Reply #806779 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"No, he had a 3 yr deal worth roughly $1.5M"

Even if that was true (which it isn't) it still wouldn't disprove that he was paid $600k last season (which he was)

Reply #806784 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

D2.0 has no idea.
These deals are always done in USD and net.
Add the fact the wildcats will double what he is getting for the books due to the pay cuts, so assume he'll be getting $750 k AUD, meaning he’ll take up the entire cap if he isn’t Aussie (marquee)
So long story short- wildcats luxury tax alone could prop up the whole league

Reply #806798 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

You think he is getting paid $750k after tax? Um no.

Reply #806799 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

No. Learn to read.
The way the salary cap works in the NBL is before tax and includes agent fees etc.
So the $750 is very realistic. That's on the books and what he’ll get, so it’ll be 1.5 on the cap
They hope that paperwork comes thru

Reply #806803 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Before tax is gross, after tax is net.

Reply #806804 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

You get what you pay for.
Bryce Cotton is Dom Perignon , other teams seem to think passion pop is sufficient.

Reply #806805 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"Before tax is gross, after tax is net."

Yes .. and?

Reply #806807 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Well what deals are done in USD and net?

Reply #806808 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

American imports are.

Reply #806809 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Save this page for the clueless fans.
No point trying to explain the particulars here.

Reply #806810 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Whether his deal is in USD or not, its still needs to adjusted to AUD for salary cap purposes, so what did D2 say that was wrong?

Reply #806811 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"40% off 600K = $240K?? " Yes I wrote that and I left out the word "less" next season. Get it? You should have been able to work that out surely.
Either way it's Perth doing yet another special deal.
So if he was getting $1.5mill over 3, he would now be getting ridiculous dollars in year 2 and 3. Hopefully there will be a hard cap and they are fucked then.

Reply #806812 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

If you cant write properly its not for everyone else to work out what you mean.

Reply #806813 | Report this post


koberulz  
Two months ago

The comforting thing about this thread is that even knowing absolutely nothing about the specifics of contracts I can still tell most posts are completely wrong.

Reply #806814 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two months ago

hoops.com.au you've done it again!

Reply #806815 | Report this post


Bol  
Two months ago

Lol

Reply #806817 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I like how the anon above claims that D2.0 was wrong for not using USD to talk about Cotton's deal, but then goes on to use AUD to make a very similar point anyway.

Reply #806825 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Kobe telling everyone else he is right again. How unsurprising and so annoying.

Reply #806828 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Ignore Koberulz just scroll past him.
Problem solved.

He has picked at comments I have made but I'm the better person because I ignore him.
He is just a troll.

Reply #806830 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

That is the worst example of ignoring someone I've ever seen.

Reply #806841 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Reply #806842 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

So Cotton gets the $deal and someone like Gibbo takes the %cut? Nice on NBLPA.

Reply #806845 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"The comforting thing about this thread is that even knowing absolutely nothing about the specifics of contracts I can still tell most posts are completely wrong" What was your point though. Other than chest thumping you have said nothing that suggests people's guesses are so wrong.

Reply #806846 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Same as the guy who said D20 was wrong, but gave some irrelevant reason why

Reply #806848 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

My question is: why is it so comforting?

Reply #806849 | Report this post


Vic Wildcat  
Two months ago

Gee how many people on here are either Cotton's manager or his bank manger, everyone seems to know what he was paid last year and what he recently signed for.

Reply #806853 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Two months ago

So Cotton gets the $deal and someone like Gibbo takes the %cut?


Gibbo was free to opt out of his contract and test the market for himself.

Can you guess why he didn't do that?

Reply #806857 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Oh yes I can guess why. Is this to be an intelligence test?

The big names renogitiate and the rest will be pulleded back under the guise of austerity measures. Was this what the NBLPA had in mind?

Reply #806862 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

the pay cut probly was to get the older guys to retire

Reply #806863 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Pulleded LOL!

Reply #806866 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

^ making fun of typos and/or grammatical errors.
Onya mate...

Reply #806868 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Two months ago

The big names renogitiate and the rest will be pulleded back under the guise of austerity measures. Was this what the NBLPA had in mind?


You seem to want to blame someone.

Can you accept that at the time of these negotiations the world was in turmoil.

Nothing was certain, only more uncertainty. There was no precedent for this so everyone is going by gut and what is 'logical and reasonable'.

At that time, it would be foreseeable that the league would suffer a significant drop in revenue for the net season (if it happened at all).

May businesses would not be able to survive such a hit, and the NBL and its teams are no different, so the reduction in the teams biggest expense was top of the pile to be reviewed. People were thinking worst case scenarios at the time, a sharing the pain plan was devised.

If it makes you feel better the NBLPA took care of the lower tier players by tiering / lowering their reductions.

The Cottons, Wares, Kays, Cooks and Hodgsons (LOL) took the biggest hits.

Aren't they allowed to respond and find a better deal?

As the NBLPA did not have visibility of what the world was like in 3, 6 - 12 months I think they did a reasonable job negotiating what they did.

To go back in hindsight and poke holes seems rather silly to me.

Reply #806870 | Report this post


KET  
Two months ago

But also, why is there an assumption that damage isn't in place?

Don't assume that because Australia is doing well in working towards eliminating the virus that a lot of money hasn't been sucked out of businesses that provide sponsorship dollars, or members who may have lost their jobs, or owners whose businesses took a hit.

Expected revenue hit + less capital to be thrown around requires less expenditure to be viable.

The stars like Cotton draw good crowds, they persuade memberships and while they may have overseas options they are so helpful to NBL sides financially, that's why they can renegotiate to get their payday still, while other players are inevitably going to take the hit. Someone has to take the hit, it's the players that don't have the leverage.

It is shrewed, it is savvy. Your 5th-10th players are more easily replaceable, when you are trying to make the best decision to maximise revenue while limiting expenditure, that pay cuts go to those players.

When things improve financially, that's when those pay-cut players can get that better average pay day, which the NBL has done a good job at improving over the last 5 years.

Reply #806873 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The cuts should have been an even percentage for every one, good players should not loose 50%,40%,30% and bottom enders nothing. If the league was in such bad shape everything that's been put out in the last few seasons is bullsit.

Reply #806874 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I'm getting mixed messages re Nick Kay with aussiehoopla.com saying he is expected to return as per Bryce Cotton.

Reply #806875 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It was certainly commented on at the time the deal was struck. In the end, the big names can and will do what it takes to get what they think they are worth despite certain peoples instances to the contrary.

What is the argument to not got into a holding pattern? Watch and then act. Let the other codes take the hits.

Two maybe three of those names listed will take no hit at all. Indeed, they will likely profit. It seems it gave at least one quite a bit of bargaining power.

Thanks to the spelling police. I LOLed. :)

Reply #806878 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What period does an NBL contract cover?

Reply #806879 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Two months ago

Don't assume that because Australia is doing well in working towards eliminating the virus that a lot of money hasn't been sucked out of businesses that provide sponsorship dollars, or members who may have lost their jobs, or owners whose businesses took a hit.


True...COVID19 will have a broad impact down for many years to come.

You can imagine that getting memberships subscriptions or bums on seats will be harder because so many families have lost jobs or suffered reduced incomes. That couple of hundred dollars to go to a game for a family + food/drinks/ etc will be the first to be dropped.

What is the argument to not got into a holding pattern? Watch and then act. Let the other codes take the hits.


That is a valid question. My position is the NBL didn't have that much time to play with to just sit and watch. Teams by now should have been starting to look for players. Budget planning starts now, take Adelaide for example (middle of the pack team so as not to get to the Sydney or Illawarra extremes), the Sixers would know revenue will be reduced and don't have huge reserves to chuck around. So would need some certainty of how much money they have to play with to recruit and not lose too much money.

Like buying a house, you can't go to Market not knowing your buying power.

Reply #806880 | Report this post


koberulz  
Two months ago

What period does an NBL contract cover?
Not entirely sure what you mean, but some contracts start doling out payments as early as the beginning of May IIRC.

Reply #806883 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Imports contract last length of season, locals can vary from length of season to yearly, 1st July to 30th June.

Reply #806885 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Also they are in USD and net and if you don't know that then you are clueless

Reply #806888 | Report this post


KET  
Two months ago

As koberulz says, it's possible clubs need to pay contracts now, without this kind of deal in place that could force onerous obligations on clubs who may have limited cash reserves out of this situation.

Entirely possible this saves a couple of clubs a whole world of immediate pain.


Re prices for tickets - NBL has always been a fairly pricey ticket, particularly 36ers. Wonder what capacity there is for reducing prices to try and draw people in?

Reply #806889 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I wonder when in the season crowds will even be allowed in

Reply #806891 | Report this post


KET  
Two months ago

One assumes it ties to virus elimination within Australia/NZ. Hard to see reasonable crowds allowed before active cases get to zero.

Active cases at zero nationally with exception to overseas returning quarantine, plus 4-6 weeks without new cases, again save for overseas returnees quarantine.

Effectively, to be community transmission of the virus eliminated for a period of over 2-3 cycles.

If community transmission still occurs, the risk becomes extremely high

Reply #806894 | Report this post


KET  
Two months ago

That can be achieved by the end of the year if clusters are well traced.

Reply #806895 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Two months ago

the above is very hard to achieve I think.

All you need is one, and they don't even have to be the irrespsonsible type just unluckily assymptomatic.

I think for health and safety reasons we would lose around 10-15% of the crowd, not even price reductions would bring them in.

Then we have those with reduced discretionary income, that could be another 10%.

I do hope in Australia we have zero cases though however unlikely.

Reply #806896 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

There's no way. All the momentum is with opening things up. No one is going to want to lock down for a long time again just so large crowds can gather.

Reply #806897 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think the best case we can hope for is for sparse crowds to be allowed in at some point in the season like maybe 25% capacity (just pulling a % figure out of my arse but you would think it will have to be a long way south of 50%)

Reply #806898 | Report this post


LoveBroker  
Two months ago

Far out 50%?

Might as well go to the Wollongong Entertainment Centre.

At least there there is an indoor Waterfall for ambience.

Reply #806899 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"Far out 50%?
Might as well go to the Wollongong Entertainment Centre."

lol the one team that is already fully covid ready

Reply #806900 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Kestleman has already said "no crowds, no NBL" That's pretty clear so, so why are are we even talking about a "graduated" crown return?

Reply #806901 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Surely you could safely have one family per block of seats. Pick them using a weekly attendance raffle.

Reply #806902 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Re: contracts: why would any NBL players contract be payable outside the season's window (promotional etc. etc. included)?

Reply #806903 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

What I think Kestelman has actually said is they won't start the season in October if there are no crowds allowed, they will delay the season as much as possible before opening. However, I haven't seen him say there won't be a season if no crowds are allowed.

Reply #806904 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two months ago

Re: contracts: why would any NBL players contract be payable outside the season's window (promotional etc. etc. included)?

Most local players have their pay spread over an entire year, so there is something always coming in weekly/fortnightly/monthly. Would help those who can't save.

Reply #806905 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"We won't start the season in early October with no crowds. That we won't do. Our number one priority is getting fans in the venues." Read into that what you want.

Reply #806916 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two months ago

Somewhat related to the above talk of crowds ...

Texas Governor Allows Fans to Attend Outdoor Pro Sporting Events at 25% Capacity

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott announced Thursday that fans will be allowed to attend outdoor professional sporting events in nearly every Texas county at up to 25% capacity starting this Friday.
Leagues will first have to apply and receive approval from the Texas Department of State Health Services and indoor events will still be held without spectators.
Abbott said Friday that the state has set up a number of guidelines for leagues to follow, including a recommendation that spectators and employees keep at least six feet apart from anyone not from their household.


Reply #806918 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Two months ago

The conversation shouldn't be about Cotton getting paid so much (if true), it should be about what can be done at the other clubs to ensure they can do the same!
We need the whole league able to pay star players that much, not just one or 2 teams.

Reply #806921 | Report this post


D2.0  
Two months ago

Cotton has won 2 league MVPs in 3 years, and probably only missed the third due to injury.
Why are people shocked that this takes his salary into the top echelon?
Keep in mind that of the ~$2M, ~$250~$300k he doesn't actually get.
(Also, just as the declining dollar has inflated his earnings of late, should the AUD rebound against the USD, then he will cost less.)

Yes, this is bizarre compared to where the league was 5 years ago, but it is the direction we have been going.
He's also not alone in getting a generous back-ended contract. According to Olgun and others many other players are doing the same. The only differences are that Cotton opted-out before renegotiating, and the level of publicity attached.
And he's still getting less than Bogut or Ware got last season.

From the outset, I have questioned the sustainability of this salary system. Sydney have gone nuts since it was first implemented, Perth & Melbourne not far behind, and obviously some teams struggling to compete. I suppose we can only keep waiting and seeing, but in the mean time can the haters please stop pretending that Perth is the only team spending at these levels.

We also have to wait and see if Perth is forced to economise on other players. No news yet on any return by Kay, and who knows what our imports will look like.

Reply #806922 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I would think Melbourne went nuts and Perth and Sydney not far behind.

Reply #806923 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think Sydney went nuts and forfeited the grand final because they couldn't win.

Reply #806925 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Lol no idea

Reply #806937 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The contract would likely be agreed to in Net USD (e.g. US$200K Net). This is then converted into a Gross AUD at 0.91 for salary cap purposes (Player Value) and the market rate (about 0.60 presently) for actual payments to the player. With the current conversion rate so low, not surprising this deal is a bit higher than previous deals.

The COVID 50% cut simply means when regular salary payments are made to players, they are 50% smaller. Contracts are negotiated as normal and normal player value is used for salary cap. They all just agreed to take a reduction to their payments for a duration of time. Cotton may have come back to the exact same contract he opted out of for NBL21, but added an extension.

Reply #806950 | Report this post


D2.0  
Two months ago

This is then converted into a Gross AUD at 0.91

For NBL purposes, the rate used for the season is fixed in advance. It's basically the average for the preceding season.
(Obviously for tax and accounting purposes the actual rate at the time of payment applies.

So that's why Cotton's previous deal, originally valued at around $500k AUD (gross) per season would have had a higher value in year two, and actual value higher again.
So the rate used originally would have been around 77.5 cents, the rate used to value the 2nd season would have been around 73 cents, and the actual rate would have averaged around 68 cents.

It's pointless trying to get to too detailed in the analysis, because we never have all the details. If a player or their partner gets a car, it has a flat rate of $10k for salary purposes, but I don't think charges for car services are counted.

All I know is that I was told at that time that his contract was worth around $500k per year.

What I am currently trying to figure out is whether the ~$2M quoted is before or after the salary cut.

Reply #807007 | Report this post


Trev  
Two months ago

Look, who cares, but if you want to know I'll 'll get a copy to upload here on Tuesday. Cotton wouldn't mind.

Coach

Reply #807009 | Report this post




 

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