Toronto lost Gasol and Ibaka, so this would've helped Baynes get a deal.

As a Raptors fan I'm happy with this. Baynes will do the hard work, hit the open 3 and set big screens.

He's effectively replacing Gasol in the centre rotation and Boucher is replacing Ibaka. Definitely doesnt make us better, but hopefully they can add one more decent big on a minimum deal. There's still a few around.

I wouldnt mind a flyer on Demarcus Cousins either. I know he comes with a lot of red flags and some risk, but I don't see the Raptors contending next season without an X Factor and Boogie has that. Not sure what his market is like, but I imagine on a minimum deal, he wouldnt find a better fit than the Raptors in terms of coaching, supporting cast and positional need.

I doubt he ever gets back to being a franchise player, but the kind of numbers he put up in GSW (16 & 8) suggest he could still be an impact player in the right environment.

As a non-Raptors fan I am a new Raptors fan with this

Happy for Banger.

Totally not dissing Toronto, but was hoping he'd sneak on to a stronger contender (GSW, BOS, LA) for a final surge towards another ring or 2 :)

Really hope he kills it with the Raps though.

Now to see where Patty falls. Seems like he'll be traded out.

"Totally not dissing Toronto, but was hoping he'd sneak on to a stronger contender"

I think thats fair. I don't expect the Raptors to contend this season. This was always going to be a weird holding year for us to maintain flexibility for next season. I just want to see them compete night in and night out and fight for home court (in Tampa?) in the first round. Baynes will help them do that.

^me

The consensus is that its actually a bit high. His advanced stats weren't great and he is getting older. This will actually be his highest annual salary ever.

I won't pretend to not be a little bit biased, but I think he might be a better fit than Gasol offensively.

Gasol's passing was elite for a big. Baynes isn't a bad passer at all, but not quite at the same level. He'll hopefully hit the three ball at a better clip than Gasol did last season though which will help with Siakam's space to move.

@LV - I thought he would've earned a bigger payday also, especially seeing where money has been splashed around elsewhere. Despite his age: excellent interior defender, spreads the floor with his shooting, perfect team piece that doesn't need shots to be effective.

He's 34 next month half decent bigs can play into their late 30's maybe even 40 if they stay relatively injury free, he's got about 3-4 years left in his NBA career so probably five years away from potentially playing in the NBL worry about it then.

Oh, advanced stats? Fair enough

Are they also why the constantly injured one-time All Star, 30 year old Hayward got a $120m deal?

"Oh, advanced stats? Fair enough

Are they also why the constantly injured one-time All Star, 30 year old Hayward got a $120m deal?"

Both teams overpaid. The fact that Charlotte, a perennial terrible team desperate for a star overpaid by a lot doesn't change the fact that Toronto overpaid by a bit for Baynes.

Baynes had a career year last year, he's developed his game over the years and is now a big man with both inside toughness and 3 point range- I don't think Toronto overpaid but I sure do think Charlotte overpaid

I don't follow advanced stats too closely, but I was asking if this also explains the Hayward thing like you claim it explains why I seemingly overrate Baynes. eg maybe it explains why Charlotee rate Hayward.

Charlotte overrate Hayward because they're desperate for a star and he was the closest thing they could get. But like you with Baynes, they've disregarded advanced stats.

Example - Hollinger had Hayward's value as being $17M per and Baynes being worth a minimum contract. Both are overpays because their teams valued them more than what a typical team would.

I'm not saying Baynes was a bad signing at all. I love it. He's a great fit both on court and team chemistry wise, and there's only 1 guaranteed year. But suggesting he was underpaid is well off the mark. He rated barely above replacement player value last season (in his career year) and had negative box score +/- on both ends. A lot of his other numbers show that last year was actually a below average one for him career wise (rebounding rate, block rate, win shares).

No one with any idea about basketball thinks Baynes was/is worth a minimum contract come on that's insane. Baynes was/is a $5M/$6M a year player Toronto have only slightly overpaid for him but then again the second year is a team option so really it could only be a 1 year deal for about $7M. Toronto did pretty well out of this.

Cram - I wouldnt mind a flyer on Demarcus Cousins either. I know he comes with a lot of red flags and some risk, but I don't see the Raptors contending next season without an X Factor and Boogie has that. Not sure what his market is like, but I imagine on a minimum deal, he wouldnt find a better fit than the Raptors in terms of coaching, supporting cast and positional need.

I doubt he ever gets back to being a franchise player, but the kind of numbers he put up in GSW (16 & 8) suggest he could still be an impact player in the right environment.


May have missed that chance, think he just signed with Houston.

[Example - Hollinger had Hayward's value as being $17M per and Baynes being worth a minimum contract. Both are overpays because their teams valued them more than what a typical team would.]

Damn! The data revolution- destroying perceptions of sports since ~2003

Yeah Houston gives Cousins a good chance to play given they only have one C on their squad. He'll struggle to find shots with Harden and Westbrook though. Given it looks like he's signing a non guaranteed deal I would have thought the Raptors were his best chance at showing what he can do again, rather than Houston which could all blow up into a giant mess.

Looks like the Raptors have signed Alex Len to a minimum deal for their 3rd big so they've gone the safe option.

"No one with any idea about basketball thinks Baynes was/is worth a minimum contract come on that's insane. Baynes was/is a $5M/$6M a year player Toronto have only slightly overpaid for him but then again the second year is a team option so really it could only be a 1 year deal for about $7M. Toronto did pretty well out of this."

Its not insane. He's a good player, but centre is the most easily replaceable position in the league right now (not withstanding Detroit signing them all) There's every chance he's outperformed by Alex Len who's just been signed to a min $ deal throughout the season.

Every position on a basketball court is replaceable just because the latest hottest trend in the NBA is smallball and that bigs aren't worth what they once were does not mean in any alternative reality Aron Baynes is a minimum contract player lol

He's certainly not underpaid, which is the comment I was commenting on initially. Whether he's a $3m or $5m player is pretty subjective, but the $7m he got is at least a small overpay and a million miles from an underpay.

And its not just because of small ball that bigs are replaceable, its because there are so many in the market that can do just as good a job. I think the most a C got this off season was the mid level ($9m) and thats for guys like Ibaka and Harrell.

Regardless Baynes is certainly not a minimum contract player it was a stupid thing to say you should know better than that. Phoenix intentionally structured the trade for Chris Paul so as to retain Baynes' Bird Rights you do not do that for a minimum contract player.

The Suns were keen to re-sign Baynes probably offered him $5M/$6M a year and likely used Hollinger to try and drive his price down. Baynes knew they just drafted a big and signed another big so his opportunity for court time would be significantly reduced so better to go a team that just lost two of their bigs whilst also knowing he could get more money than that too.

an awful lot of assumptions in that. The Suns drafted a big and signed another one, but still wanted to give Baynes more than the minimum?

Again, Alex Len had a very similar season to Baynes last season, performing better on some stats (rebounding rate, block rate, FG%, TS%, PER) and worse on others (3p%, assist rate, turnover rate) while grading out almost identical on box score +/-, Value over replacement player, win shares, though Len still shaded Baynes on all of those.

what I'm getting at here, is that these two guys offer VERY similar level of production. Baynes fits better in TO because he has had a better three point % last year, but they both shoot at about 33% over their careers. Len is also 7 years younger.

I'm not here to argue that Len is a better player or a better fit for TO, I'm saying what these two guys offer is VERY similar and yet Len got a minimum contract. So the idea that Baynes would be considered lucky to get more than the minimum being "stupid" simply shows your own lack of objectivity.

[I think the most a C got this off season was the mid level ($9m) and thats for guys like Ibaka and Harrell.]

Spurs signed Poeltl 3 years $27m

If you're correct then we might've seriously overpaid!