Ben
Earlier this year

Australian basketball slammed as 'white boys club'

... is the headline from the Daily Mail.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9378955/Australian-basketball-slammed-white-boys-club-racism-row.html

Interesting short read.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

HUGE SHOCK here.... BA's been a joke for years....

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Casual racism in Australian sport?? You've gotta be kidding.

Article states Patty Mills started the Indigenous Community Basketball League, it's actually the Indigenous Basketball Association.

I think given there are (from the little I know) Sudanese and/or African run basketball orgs and now an Indigenous specific one, it may indicate there are issues for certain players to advance in mainstream state leagues due to either underlying racial or 'political' reasons.

Basketball IS also a fairly classist sport like many others are in terms of players requiring personal coaching to really become great rep players and taking their talents further. We don't have the High School and College pathways and resources of the USA but you'd like to think the AIS is really doing its job and being able to identify great players regardless of creed or background.

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Red84  
Earlier this year

Look at this way. The number of coaching and support staff at state and national level is quite low - probably less than 100. And these positions are valued given they represent professional $ (not great $ but $ nonetheless) in our great sport.

So turnover is low with insiders and incumbents strongly favoured to gain positions. This is a feature I have commented on numerous occasions which has received a lot of legitimate push back from many in the hoops community.

So to assert that people other than whites are shut out because of colour strikes me (as a white male) to be....partly right - but I reckon the overwhelming factor at work, is the lack of turnover.

If I am right then the solution starts at the level of local association clubs, where players, coaches and administrators get their start. At the local association level these factors of insider networks and incumbency is amplified.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The AIS has been a mates club for a large percentage of its intake for years. The states just as bad or worse. Very hard to get ahead in basketball unless you know people or have as much talent Bogut, Mills, etc.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I guess I struggle with this on a playing level. I can definitely see it on a coaching/admin level though.

I have coached many talented Indigenous players in my years and, despite my best efforts, struggled to keep them in basketball. They often quit for various reasons, and also seem to struggle with the commitment of attending training and games each week. This makes it hard to keep them on a team sometimes - despite their talent.

AFL seems to do better, but I feel it could be the allure of money more quickly than there is with basketball. Particularly for the women.

As someone else noted, basketball is a little elitist in general. Often it is the kids with affluent parents who get ahead because private coaching is involved and sets them apart from the rest

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Given the number of Sudanese kids that are in the NBL or College, is it really that racist?

And the images in the article are definitely not Jawai or the Opals...

This year there's Wigness and Mills has been a proud Boomer for many years. Plenty of African players, African American imports, and plenty of Kiwi players of Maori and Pasifika descent (seems to be increasing year on year and SEM seemingly a default second NZ outfit).

I’m not saying that things can’t be improved but the article seems to be inaccurate in parts and I can’t help but feel it may be over exaggerating...

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anon  
Earlier this year

Basketball here in Oz will always be plagued by grassroots providing the dollars for the rest of the pathway and organizations.

When you need more money to climb the pathway ladder (be apart of VJBL or make State Teams) that eliminates a certain fraction of society and thus will be underrepresented the higher on the totem pole we go.

Basketball here in Oz, whether rightly or wrongly is geared towards middle-high income families, due to the constant outlay of money needed year round to participate.

I don't believe for a second there is any sort of systemic racism here to keep people out of key positions/teams as we all would love to provide opportunities to anyone who has potential to go above and beyond in our sport administratively or playing wise, no matter where they are from or look like.

To me money and the lack of funding from BA down towards the grassroots is the underlying issue here.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

5 indigenous in WNBL? Seems like there's more.

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ME  
Earlier this year

It's the same story again and again. White people make up somewhere between 65 and 70 percent of the population of the country. It shouldn't be an absolute shock that they dominate in certain fields - they remain the vast majority.

And if certain groups underperform, it doesn't HAVE to be because the evil white people are holding them back. It could be some of their own issues that they as a group need to address. We just had someone mention turning up to training being an issue. Is Captain Cook to blame for that, is he? Stolen generation?

I think we all know that money means something in our basketball community. If you can't pay 500 a season for district, you're probably not going to develop into much of a player. But this being spun as a race problem is just absurd and just a symptom of a media and social climate where everything has to be called racist.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Another investigation to find the answer they want to force reform.

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Cram  
Earlier this year

"Given the number of Sudanese kids that are in the NBL or College, is it really that racist?"

The language is clearly over the top, but pointing to kids succeeding is not proof that inequality does not exist. It simply shows they succeeded in spite of it.

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LoveBroker  
Earlier this year

What is equality in this context?

Representation based on what?

Percentage of race of the general population, then apply that percentage to basketball?

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Andrew  
Earlier this year

Agreed ME

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buffbundy  
Earlier this year

Surely they are only referring to off-court/coaching/administration.

To claim this applies on court/in the NBL is laughable.

Most of the NBL referees are white. Is that a problem too?

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hoopie  
Earlier this year

I also agree with ME. It sounds like some one trying to get some publicity.

From having coached indigenous players in two countries, some things stand out for me in keeping indigenous players from dominating down under:
- it costs money and often requires transport, which many don't have, and there aren't a lot of scholarships on offer down under
- it requires discipline and a sense of responsibility to turn up to training and games, week after week, on time
- it requires discipline and a degree of maturity to stand still, listen, and follow the coach's instructions at training and games; in other words, for the player to put away their ego in order to fit in with the coaching, administration, etc, rather than the other way round
- training isn't always FUN but it's usually NECESSARY in order to advance teamwork and a common playing style

Many of those I've coached have been very talented at 'schoolyard ball' but just didn't have the discipline or IQ or desire to be coached in 'orthodox basketball' which were needed.

I think I'm a fairly positive easy-going coach, but I've been annoyed when players miss most training sessions during a season with no reasons given, even as far as turning up to a grand final after half-time (after switching off their phones when we tried to find out where they were)!!
I've also had players torch their competition at trials and then flat-out refuse to train once they were selected. (At which point they were quickly un-selected.)

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Is Captain Cook to blame for that, is he? Stolen generation?

Fuck off ME you racist twat.

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Curtley  
Earlier this year

There's some unfortunate assumptions and stereotypes being bandied about in this thread. Indigenous kids have barriers in many aspects of daily life but good coaches and administrators understand the complexities and can overcome them. Putting so called ingrained behaviour into the too hard basket is lazy and ignorant.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Basketball is funded from the bottom up. Number one problem. Fix it you'll keep more in the sport.
Bottomed line.

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ME  
Earlier this year

Notice how no one is having a whinge about the NBA's diversity problem? In the NBA, 13 percent of the population make up 80 percent of the players. Where's the representation in that?

Just seems to me this representation stuff is extremely selective. If black people succeed and are overrepresented, it's god-given talent, how dare we ever question it. If white people do it, it simply must be institutionalized racism, unconscious bias, this, that and the other.

These assertions they're making, without any real fact to back them, are straight out offensive. Do they really think an uber-talented black kid is being overlooked because the coach wants a Brendan Teys instead?

Seriously, get real.

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ME  
Earlier this year

"Is Captain Cook to blame for that, is he? Stolen generation?

Fuck off ME you racist twat."


You're literally proving my point. Everything is racism to people like you, even if it clearly isn't.

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Perthworld  
Earlier this year

The article should have been an exposé on BA and their continual mismanagement of the sport in this country rather than using the r topic as it's centrepiece for click bait purposes. Such a missed opportunity. RIP journalism.

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Curtley  
Earlier this year

ME, I think it's pretty clear the USA has better basketball resources overall ensuring good players don't get lost to the sport. It's not based on race, it's based on resources, money and interest. Even AFL in Australia doesn't have either the resources or desire to be successful in recruiting indigenous players from remote communities. It's basically in the too hard basket. Easier to recruit Americans and Irish who never played the game. I believe this points to a bigger issue that is not limited to football.

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ME  
Earlier this year

The 'bigger issue' is that it costs money to play sports in Australia. There's an elitist issue in sport in Australia, not necessarily a racist one.

I know plenty of kids I went to school with who could play the game, but they went nowhere because they couldn't afford to play district. Would they have gone pro? Well.. I don't really know. We never got to find out. Maybe they wouldn't have. But they didn't even go on to get entry-level training because the fees were too high.

They were white kids, by the way...

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Read some bullshit on this forum over the years but some of these comments top them. Kids of colour making stipulations about not training? C'mon man.
I've seen parents complain about a black kid being late by 5 minutes to training once, that their Timmy should play more minutes because he showed more commitment. Timmy had Daddy drive them in air conditioned car while the black kid caught a train, 2 buses and had to run for 20 minutes to try and get to training on time. Pointed that out to Timmys dad, apparently I was making up stuff.

Clubs should have cultural training to help people from all backgrounds. The views on this forum of some are just crap.


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/nov/28/south-sudanese-australians-and-andrew-gaze-condemn-prejudicial-axing-of-basketball-event 

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I think saying it's a race issue in a particular sport is very simplistic.

There are genuine barriers to indigenous participation in sport and society, but that doesn’t mean the institution is racist and that the high representation of one race means it’s racist. I think this shortcut some people increasingly have of reaching that conclusion is lazy and ultimately unhelpful to reducing real inequities.

In New Zealand, where I am posting from, kids of Indian heritage are playing at rep level at far higher levels than their population percentage. Is it racist, then, that not enough white New Zealanders or Maori kids play cricket? A lot of Pasifika kids play league and rugby, but the Indian kids don’t do that. Is yachting and rowing racist because it’s predominantly white?

Having coached at a high level I know that in any sport good coaches / admins will push elite talent as best as they can. Patty Mills is indigenous, as is Steven Adams. When we see talent, we push it because it’s important for the sport to succeed regardless of the colour of the kids. These clickbait articles about race are a waste of time.

Sexism and harassment in sport? Now that’s a real problem.

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ME  
Earlier this year

", that their Timmy should play more minutes because he showed more commitment. Timmy had Daddy drive them in air conditioned car while the black kid caught a train, 2 buses and had to run for 20 minutes to try and get to training on time."

Whether or not this story is true, the issue is financial and not necessarily that the kid was black. Doesn't really need "cultural training" if someone who is financially disadvantaged cant make training. It needs a little bit of "help the kid out" training regardless of colour.

"
There are genuine barriers to indigenous participation in sport and society, but that doesn't mean the institution is racist and that the high representation of one race means it’s racist. I think this shortcut some people increasingly have of reaching that conclusion is lazy and ultimately unhelpful to reducing real inequities."

Absolutely it was lazy journalism, not really looking any deeper than they needed to to call it racist.

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Hoopie  
Earlier this year

Anon 777, I agree there are heaps of instances such as you mention, and I also was pissed off when that tournament was cancelled. I love the contribution that our indigenous and recent immigrants bring..

Some corrections for you
1. Re the kid refusing to train after being selected - you weren't there, I was. It happened.
2. Re kids being late to training and to the GF - in my particular case, they lived next to the stadium, and that was the reason we chose to train there. Before the season, they committed to the team rules along with the rest of the squad. They just didn’t deliver.

Nuff said.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

No ME, someone who continually dismissing actual historical events like the stolen generation for example doesn't get to mock those events to try and make a point that nothing is ever the fault of white people. You're a racist, always have been, always will be.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Whenever the issue of race is raised here there is always one particular poster leaping eagerly to defend the honour of white people and find every possible other excuse for unbalanced treatment and representation. I am thankful that we have heroes like him to remind us that racial bias of any kind does not exist in Australia and we must resist entertaining any suggestions to the contrary.
PS. Go Kings

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Exactly. Every damn time.

But he's not racist...

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"I've seen parents complain about a black kid being late by 5 minutes to training once, that their Timmy should play more minutes because he showed more commitment."

When it comes to youth sports, many parents are [email protected]#$% crazy. Do you actually believe they wouldn't make the same complaint about a white kid in that scenario?

Evidently ME is making too much sense for some people.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The point is that ME is not the person to listen to for a nuanced or balanced discussion on racism.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

What clubs allow a no train but you can play policy. Country kids from distant locations have been allowed at clubs on proviso they attend 1 training a week, often family or parent stay the whole weekend for that training. Kid refuses to train, black white or brindle, they don't play, what club would otherwise allow that. That's not just basketball, any sport. Has nothing to do with race. And the way you put it, you honestly expect that a kid showing up after half time expected to play. A) it's against rules in every competition I've seen, name is stricken off scoresheet. And why are they even part of the team if they miss most training sessions. Might be an easy going coach, but that would just never happen. Said a kid refused to train after selection but was then unselected, yet you contradict yourself. If true, sounds like kids have a very confusing policy from you as a coach. And choosing training location because of the kid living next to it, FFS, what a load of crap.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

" I am thankful that we have heroes like him to remind us that racial bias of any kind does not exist in Australia and we must resist entertaining any suggestions to the contrary."

1. That's obviously not correct.
2. Quote where he wrote that.

"The point is that ME is not the person to listen to for a nuanced or balanced discussion on racism. "

Are you invalidating those arguments based on who presented them? Because that's literally bigotry, not to mention ignorant.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Cool, I'm a bigot. ME is a racist. Are we done?

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

ME and the other posters are correct, the reasons are financial, not systemic racism. Absolutely agree with the poster who said a lot of parents at the junior level are nuts and would complain equally as hard if the player was white. I know this for a fact as I've coached for many years and seen it firsthand. I've also bended over backwards for my indigenous players, driving them to and from games and trainings. But it's a pretty big ask for a volunteer to do that all the time. Australian sport is generally more suited to the more affluent unfortunately.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Hmm, I wonder if systemic racism has contributed to financial inequality...

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Maybe, socially and politically, it has. But that problem does not start and end with basketball. It also doesn't explain those at the margins who aren’t subject to systemic racism (i.e., the white underclass). Either way, Beating up Basketball Australia will not solve that inequality.

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ME  
Earlier this year

"No ME, someone who continually dismissing actual historical events like the stolen generation for example doesn't get to mock those events to try and make a point that nothing is ever the fault of white people. You're a racist, always have been, always will be."


Wow you sound like an absolute moron. I didn't mock those events, I simply mocked the want people have to blame those things on everything going on in the Aboriginal community. And I didn't say 'nothing' is the fault of white people, I've simply been saying not fucking 'everything' is the fault of white people. You take things to the extreme because you're too stupid to comprehend nuance.


"Whenever the issue of race is raised here there is always one particular poster leaping eagerly to defend the honour of white people and find every possible other excuse for unbalanced treatment and representation. I am thankful that we have heroes like him to remind us that racial bias of any kind does not exist in Australia and we must resist entertaining any suggestions to the contrary.
PS. Go Kings"

Massive YAWN on this one. Some article spouting unverified garbage that doesn't look any deeper than their first possible, knee-jerk "everything is racist any time there isn't perfect representation" assumption, is dropped, and when I don't fall to the floor and scream tears of white guilt about these stupid, half-baked, and completely skewed claims, I am somehow the asshole.
Jog on mate!

"Exactly. Every damn time.

But he's not racist..."

Could it be that I am just sick of everything being called racist? Nah... couldn't be that. If I dont think everything is racist, I must be racist.

"" I am thankful that we have heroes like him to remind us that racial bias of any kind does not exist in Australia and we must resist entertaining any suggestions to the contrary."

1. That's obviously not correct.
2. Quote where he wrote that."

As I said, these idiots take everything to the extreme. If you dont believe a few things are racist, then you must believe nothing is racist, and therefore you're a racist. It's really a grade-school level of logic they're operating with. I've provided a simple and plausible alternative to their argument (ie, financial and not racial issue) yet they've totally disregarded to shreik like banshees about completely unverifiable claims of racism.

"Hmm, I wonder if systemic racism has contributed to financial inequality...:

Haha yeah, so we will just go find some back doors to call things racist, shall? "Oh, well we couldn't call basketball directly racist, so let's call financial inequality racist, and then rather than just being hard for poor kids to play basketball we can still infer that all the structures of basketball are therefore racist. Go us!" People like you are MORONS.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

+1 to everything ME said.

Both sides of politics have pushed the extremes of every argument to win support. And the lazy ill-informed public eat it up.

The article is a simplistic response to a report for clickbait and the report itself is only written to obtain government funding to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Or force another $5 levy on every member for non-existent bias against girls/womens basketball as a fundraising for fluff to claim they are fixing a non-existent problem.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I side with ME also.

Plenty of good points made in this thread that negate basketball in Australia as being racist.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

There is as apt meme floating around:

Australia, what are we going to be offended by today?

Society in 2021 has such a victims mentality.

Reply #837885 | Report this post


Red84  
Earlier this year

This is very much a regional story. I have no idea about the situation in - say - Coffs Harbour vs Sydney Vs Hawthorn Vs Perry Lakes. So I think we need to be careful not to map conditions we find in one place onto another.

A big obstacle for development of indigenous talent in NSW metro is that venues in regions where indigenous people reside tend to be located in areas which really only suit car transport. Here I include Penrith, Bankstown, Hills, Blue Mountains. In other areas like Sydney. Hornsby, Manly, Norths - access is better, but there is not the numbers, the population concentrations are white, stable households which provide support (transport, food preparation, decent schools). The comets in Sydney are an exception - they appear to me to have a vibrant community of players from all sorts of backgrounds. Good for them.

Economic and social disadvantage in basketball will only be amplified if we defund the association model and rely increasingly on private schools, which I fear is where we are heading. You will get the odd talented indigenous person arising through the private school system, but stars arise from a mass of participation, and the association model makes basketball affordable to most. Need to think of what works for the many, rather than overhype individual stories of success.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Could it be that I am just sick of everything being called racist?

You could very well be sick of it, and on this issue you may have a point but you're also racist and have been for years so I couldn't give a shit what your input is on this topic.

Reply #837888 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Society in 2021 has such a victims mentality.

Maybe because society in 2021 is about recognising centuries of racism and oppression and trying to educate others of our sins of the past.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Yep and let's do that by changing the names of foods etc... Wow brilliant.

Reply #837891 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Did that impact you in any way?

Reply #837892 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Earlier this year

Here's a tip. If a URL includes DailyMail, don't waste your time visiting it.
They're a troll of the news industry, with one hand overhyping things for clicks & reactions, and the other hand lamenting that people get so outraged.

BA has already admitted that it could do better. That doesn't mean we're heading for the next holocaust but it also doesn't mean that everything is 100% fine and we should dismiss any question of race being a factor.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Only the ridiculousness of it and the millions of $$$ it cost innocent companies to rebrand and advertise to appease the squealing of the outraged minority.

I hope Coon cheese changing their name made you feel less like a victim and helped you sleep at night. What an absolute joke.

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Red84  
Earlier this year

Now we are talking about the branding of cheese. This thread has descended into the usual culture war where people are talking past each other. I endorse Luuuc's post and add that this thread has become a waste of time. Time to move on.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

So it didn't impact you at all, but you are trying to make it sound worse than what it actually was. Sounds like a bit of victim mentality to me!

Reply #837899 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Haha nice bow, unfortunately you missed the mark again.

Reply #837901 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The person who insinuated there is no gender bias in basketball should probably check out the women's NCAA bubble weights room versus the men's set up. Paints it in stark contrast. However, moving on, also agree with Luuuc and other posters suggesting this thread has gone off topic.

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Musk  
Earlier this year

2 things that stood out to me in the article were the comments about casual racism and the whole old boys things. In regards to the casual racism (or racial insensitivity) obviously this is a societal issue, but coming from the article it made it seem that BA itself has an organisational level issue when it comes to dealing with race related matters which is sad to hear especially as party mills has currently been our star player for the last like 3 Olympics. As for the old boys thing I mean idk if that's purely a race issue. If I recall correctly there’s a stat that basically says that majority of jobs (something like 70%) aren’t actually publicly advertised and instead to get said jobs it requires being in the know, so I’d suggest this would apply to BA also, and although it’s not a race related issue it still isn’t a good thing that this happens.

The article also mentions 12 recommendations but doesn’t seem to directly state them but obviously a big one that would help aboriginal people would be more of an effort made by BA for programs on a groundwork’s basis something like mills has started but nation wide as unfortunately due to the disadvantages aboriginal people are at compared to white people (percentage rate wise not strictly population) they are in a lot of cases lacking compared to that of the everyday white person (I.e. less household income, lower education rates, higher rates of health issues (obesity and heart problems being the big ones I believe along with lower life expectancy) etc). Therefore in order to see more participation it would require greater efforts on a community basis for this to happen as unfortunately there are such discrepancies on an everyday basis which leads to such issues of participation in the first place.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Personally would like to see focus on aboriginal only to be expanded to other ethnicities such as Sudanese. Why just aboriginal.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Government funding is only available for Aboriginal programs. Just follow the money.

Reply #837920 | Report this post


Dave Q  
Earlier this year

Hmmm. Not sure where to go with this. My (extremely white) son has been playing for a Sudanese-dominated Sydney club for the past few years. Great kids, good coaches. I have personally witnessed a great deal of racism towards them, some of which has left me shocked (a group of adults calling an u14 team a "pack of f*ckin' m*nkeys" was the low point).

But it has never, ever been from an organisation level. Always from officials/parents of other teams. Amusingly, in my experience so far (middle aged white guy), the majority of the racism has come from other migrant groups!

As has been stated above, the real sticking point is coaching. To truly get the skills needed to move to next level, you need regular 1-on-1 training. A kid in Blacktown with parents who can just about get him through a season of club basketball cant do that. Nor, in many cases, can they afford the $1500-odd per season that rep cost including travel and uniforms.

So how can BNSW (or BA) change that? No idea. That seems like a hell of a lot of money that the game simply doesn't have.

I am not saying that racism doesn't exist, it does without a doubt. I am saying there are much larger issues at player here for kids with talent.

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J  
Earlier this year

"There are genuine barriers to indigenous participation in sport."

There are barriers in a selection of sports, but not all. The NRL has around 13% Aboriginal players. Lower leagues have even higher percentages. The AFL isn't far behind.

The guy who mentioned car transport - mate, what planet are you on? Koori and Murri families drive our kids all over NSW, QLD and VIC for football, athletics and netball.

Aboriginal families engage in basketball and then withdraw to our own knockout tournaments when its shown that the sport's participants hold a considerable amount of prejudice against us(at least comparatively when examined against rugby league and AFL. The same problem exists in netball.

It's not a black/white thing. There's plenty of ignorance that comes from white people, Africans and all kinds of people when it comes to Aboriginal people and our culture. I wouldn't class it as racism - it's just what we see here - this thread is a great example of how so many people reckon they know all about the why and the how of Aboriginal people, yet are absolutely talking out of their mooms. Why the hell would we want to spend our time putting up with that to any larger degree? My kids play. They are getting an introduction to the sport, along with other sports, but when they get older (13-14) they will start to hear and notice the prejudice as it develops among those in their age bracket and they simply won't want to be around it and will simply choose a safer, smarter, more balanced environment. They will ditch the cricket and basketball and the only time they will bother with either again is in playing tournaments with their family and their community.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

J could you please explain the prejudice aboriginal athletes families face in basketball?

Obviously most on the board are unaware and would appreciate the insight.

Reply #838075 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Isn't the CEO a female? How is that a boy's club

Reply #838104 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Because she wants to make changes. Now she has a costly report to back that up.

Reply #838128 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

This whole report was a nothing burger.
21 people with submissions.

What a joke

And all we got was, "no racism" just a white boys club.

Gee, i wonder what Australia prodominately is?

Now, if you argued Basketball is an elitist sport, like much of junior sport, i would some what agree?
Very $$$$$ to be involved.
Racist? Nope

Get a refund from the HRC, that was a waste of time.

Reply #838183 | Report this post


J  
Earlier this year

"J could you please explain the prejudice aboriginal athletes families face in basketball?"

Basketball, despite a lot of black (African) kids and adults playing the game in Australia, is like a number of other sports, in that it has little history of inclusivity with Aboriginal people. It was very much a white game until 30 years ago (give or take a few years). A few others have called it an elitist game. There is an element of that, but the reality is that anyone can play it.

Only a few people in the Aboriginal community have a history with basketball. There is nothing to call on. No fondness. No connection. The idea that Aboriginal kids should play it isn't even a thing usually. Basketball just like cricket and rugby union fails because it has very little history of extending a hand and saying "you're welcome". Where rugby league and Aussie rules both succeeded is that their inclusivity came very early on, and even where there were exclusions, or that Aboriginal people felt the prejudices were too great, they set up their own leagues and clubs. Redfern All Blacks in rugby league and Fitzroy Stars in Aussie rules etc. It's also what provided for Patty Mills, with the Shadows club.

Where people have very little interaction with Aboriginal people, a lot of really ignorant stuff is said, and often. Having to hear that from your children's teammates, or their parents, or the parents of opposing teams - it's just not worth it, when there are a lot of other viable options.

My kids are of ages where it's not happening yet. But it will, and when it does - we'll move on.

Reply #838226 | Report this post


Red84  
Earlier this year

To J: I appreciate your posts even though you roast me as an ignoramus who posts public comments nonetheless. So here is another one!
I have no intention of appropriating an Aboriginal voice - I merely comment on what I see and have experienced. And this is a basketball chat forum, which is informal in character, but where good public manners should apply.
I have been a bi-racial marriage for 30+ years and I have 3 kids running through junior programs in a full-on Ango region in NSW. My kids are often considered islander. 2 things I have noticed as an ignorant Anglo male - first, it takes just one dickhead in a hundred to ruin your kid's impression of themselves and whether they are welcome in the sport; second, gestures matter, so I am receptive to your message of "extending a hand" to make people of non dominant backgrounds welcome to the sport. This I might add most strongly applies to Asian players, who have been overlooked in this thread and, who - in my region at least - have playing numbers low relative to their population share, and who are not represented in any position of authority, whether it be coaching or in admin.
As regards to my prior comments on transport, I have in mind the situation of a promising junior from an African background, who lived out of region and was promised support from a dickhead coach who subsequently "forgot" his prior assurances, leaving the junior stranded once training had finished around 9pm at a remote school in the middle of winter. This happened on several occasions. And this particular junior would attend state trials, once arriving into a packed hall an hour or so late, because the junior - unlike everyone else - had to rely on public transport on a Sunday morning to get to Minto.
As regards to your comments for encouraging your kids to move on - which i find understandable. I don't expect you to agree with me here - but I have spent about 20 years of my working life in Asia - most of that time playing ball casually or coaching or supporting my kids in the sport. If there is just one feature about the character of Australians when it comes to sport - the thing that differentiates them from Singaporeans or Hong Kongers or Chinese - is that they place a greater value of widening participation and inclusion. And as a people they are prepared to make key decisions to back this up. We see it in the dominance of the taxpayer subsidized associations in junior sport and the provision of taxpayer funded sporting halls. There is much underfunding going on. And we can do better, as your posts cogently point out.

Reply #838301 | Report this post




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