Anon
Last month

Don’t blame low crowds on COVID

https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/31458746/afl-rohan-connolly-covid-19-not-only-issue-low-crowd-numbers-2021

it's not just NBL with a low crowd issue

Topic #48519 | Report this topic


koberulz  
Last month

The only factor that article mentions that would also impact the NBL is...COVID.

Reply #848739 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

It's not uncommon for Victorian clubs to play at multiple home grounds - many play home at MCG and Marvel, usually it depends on if they are playing an interstate club or not.
Geelong ofcourse play at Kardinia and MCG.

Richmond are sooking, but would they rather play away vs Geelong at Kardinia Park or the scheduled MCG match on 24th July? I think Geelong would love that actual home ground advantage instead of playing "home" against 60k Richmond fans at the G.

Reply #848740 | Report this post


Big Country  
Last month

If anything I think this article hits the mark pretty well and applies perfectly to the NBL...especially this final paragraph.

"Frankly, I reckon the people are pissed off. Not by the game itself, the aesthetic quality of which has improved this year. But by the ever-present suspicion that to those who run the game or who broadcast the game -- who often come across as a little mutual back-slapping society -- the viewers are just the riff-raff who will lap up what they are offered, along with a dollop of condescension, no questions asked."

Reply #848750 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

I don't think that goes anywhere close to describing the NBL.

Reply #848752 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Last month

In summary: Do blame low crowds on COVID

Reply #848753 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

The early rounds in Melbourne were played before only 50 percent capacity crowds, while two games in Perth (including a Derby) have been "lockouts".
COVID.

Ticketing this year, thanks to COVID, has been something of a nightmare, and clearly has taken some toll. Reduced capacities, more logistically complicated admission practices and social distancing you suspect made going to games for some people more trouble than it was worth.
COVID.

And while this one might be harder to judge for a while yet, I believe last year's three-month layoff due to the pandemic has had some lingering impact.
COVID.

I hadn't missed a lot of the increasingly large circuses which surround it, the saturation media coverage, the clickbait and the endless puffing of chests and stroking of egos in the former player cartel which now is the face of much of that coverage.
Almost the exact opposite of the NBL's situation.

Like when Fox Footy's "On The Couch" talks about redrafting the schedule so no games cross over (for TV viewing purposes), then in the next breath wonders why crowds might be down. Umm ... because you're actively enticing people to stay home and watch on TV, perhaps?
This makes no sense. "We should do it differently so it's easier to watch on TV" and doesn't support "it's currently easy to watch on TV". That games currently overlap on TV isn't going to cause people to stay away. It's nonsense. The article also claims TV viewership is down, so which is it? Are too many people watching on TV instead of attending, or not?

Or when Eddie McGuire pronounces matter-of-factly that "Saturday afternoon football is dead". The reasons? Apparently, because people now prefer to watch school sport or play golf on a Saturday, and watch the games on TV.
The NBL doesn't play on Saturday afternoons.

This article has nothing to do with the NBL's situation at all.

Reply #848755 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

The NBL's issue is a mix of covid, playing into the AFL season, a drop in talent and the NBL Cup which may have exhausted Melburnians of the game. They should have run a shorter season this year but hindsight is always 2020. They did have the foresight to drop player salaries in such a way that this year has probably been sustainable for the league. And to its credit, the season has gone ahead and they've 'made do'.

I'll be concerned about low crowds when Covid eases away and we're back to our usual timetable but only getting 2000 people to games but I don't think we'll have that problem when things steady up. The Next Stars program has once again been a success, which should bring more interesting young prospects from the US over for fans to talk about. We should hopefully be back to three imports. You might have a young Dyson Daniels sign with a team. Restrictions should ease away. Player salaries can start bumping back up. I predict us not losing too much of a step in the coming season or two.

But in other news, does anyone know what happened with the potential Stan deal?

Reply #848757 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The Next Stars program has once again been a success

How?

Reply #848759 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

But in other news, does anyone know what happened with the potential Stan deal?


I was just thinking about that recently and I suspect it's probably being kept quiet so as not to offend ESPN & SBS with the view they might pull games. The two year deal with them expires at the end of the season and then the NBL can bang on all offseason about the Stan Sport deal.

I guess there's a thought it might have fallen through but two things a) it wouldn't start until next season anyway and b) The Australian who reported that story are always very clued in over the years with the behind the scenes stuff of the NBL.

Reply #848760 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Completely speculative but that may have fallen over a bit particularly with A League potentially going Stan

Reply #848767 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Isn't Rohan Connolly just an angry man with a typewriter

Reply #848884 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

No you're thinking of @rohancct

Reply #848891 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

"The Next Stars program has once again been a success

How?"

Josh Giddey has gone from virtual unknown to lottery pick. Justinian Jessup has solidified his NBA future. What do you think does to inspire future next stars and imports, this trend the NBL now has for turning out NBA players?

How has the Next Stars program not been a success?

Reply #848892 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

"How has the Next Stars program not been a success?"

- It compromises the competitiveness of the league
- it compromises the integrity and transparency of the league
- The rules have needed to be changed at least twice to broaden what a next star even is
- it turns our elite mens basketball league into a D league

Just off the top of my head

Reply #848905 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Giddey would have turned himself into a lottery pick with his play without the Next Stars program.

Jessup was already drafted. His play this year has been pretty average compared to other previous draft and stash guys. Jessup could also have come down to Australia as an import and produced the same so again, how is the NS program a success?

Reply #848907 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

Jessup was already drafted.


Incorrect, he was signed before he was drafted.

Reply #848918 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Jessup has been better than that kid that played for Adelaide a few seasons back, he's been very serviceable. He’s a long way from home as well in tough covid times.

Reply #848919 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

"Jessup has been better than that kid that played for Adelaide a few seasons back, he's been very serviceable"

Given he's a college grad, four years older than Ferguson was during his time in the NBA (and actually 6 days younger than Ferguson now) this actually makes sense.

Reply #848921 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

Should have read

"...four years older than Ferguson was during his time in the NBL..."

Reply #848922 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

The point is, the NS program didn't make him an NBA draftee. He hasn't excelled in the NBL like previous guys who came here as their first pro gig.

Reply #848925 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

The NBL has had far more success with imports getting picked up, like Ennis, Tate, Craig, Oliver etc, which doesnt require extra restricted spots or a hit to competition integrity.

Reply #848926 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

He been better than Devon Hall, Marcus Thornton just off the top of my head in first year players.

Reply #848927 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

And he's nowhere near as good as Ennis, McRae, wilbiken, Prather and Craig off the top of my head.

Reply #848928 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Cram looks like you've picked a decision then made up arguments to fit it.

Those arguments are straight up crap.

"- It compromises the competitiveness of the league"
Giddey was one of Adelaides most productive players - he was better on the court than off it. He literally made Adelaide more competitive.

Ball fit in the league no issues at all - Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he get fairly close in the MVP votes?

Didi was good, Jessup is good - if anything it’s fair to say NS has been surprisingly competitive and a boost to the overall talent and competitiveness.

“- it compromises the integrity and transparency of the league”

Opposed to what, the AFL?

NBL doesn’t have an integrity or transparency issue. The basis for next stars is clear - equating you not liking the program with lacking integrity is not a grounded argument.

“- The rules have needed to be changed at least twice to broaden what a next star even is”

God forbid the NBL be agile and take advantage of opportunities. The NBL benefits from being savvy and agile, it needs to find a way to be sustainable and part of that is attracting top talent, credibility abroad and marketing prospects locally.

“it turns our elite mens basketball league into a D league”

It doesn’t though, that’s the point of differentiation the NBL has from the G League

Reply #848935 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Ball fit in the league no issues at all - Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn’t he get fairly close in the MVP votes?

We're the Hawks a competitive team last season?

Reply #848936 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

"- It compromises the competitiveness of the league"
Giddey was one of Adelaides most productive players - he was better on the court than off it. He literally made Adelaide more competitive.
And Louzada made a grand final team more competitive, by giving them what was essentially a free import.

"- it compromises the integrity and transparency of the league"

Opposed to what, the AFL?

NBL doesn't have an integrity or transparency issue.
Each of the past two seasons, a team has signed as a Next Star a player who was not eligible to be a Next Star under the existing rules, only for the NBL to come out and say, "oh yeah, we changed that, we just didn't tell anybody."

It's still not clear who actually pays the players, or what they get paid, or who gets the buyout money when they get the call up.

Reply #848938 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Why is that Balls fault?

Budget team loses star import, and the criteria of "Ball being competitive" is “Ball must carry your entire team”?

How many players could have carried that Hawks team to competitiveness? None? Would we consider every NBL player in the league to not be competitive?

Absurd criteria set. Ball was clearly competitive and better than a fair few players in the league.

Reply #848939 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

" And Louzada made a grand final team more competitive, by giving them what was essentially a free import."

Crams argument seems based around next stars providing a lack of competitiveness, not a competitive imbalance by providing an advantage.

Perth fans need to stop being sour, try being a fan of a club that doesn't have lots of cash to fly around if need be in a league where rules allow teams to spend what they like if necessary to compete. To the extent that hasn’t been allowed, those clubs did it anyway.

It would be silly to cry about Sydney and not cry about the other clubs too. Yes, including Perth despite Perth “doing no wrong” in the eyes of Perth fans.


“ only for the NBL to come out and say, "oh yeah, we changed that, we just didn't tell anybody."

It's still not clear who actually pays the players, or what they get paid, or who gets the buyout money when they get the call up.”

You’re mistaking you as being everybody. How do you know NBL clubs aren’t aware of the process?

What right do we have to know how much an employee is paid?

How much are you paid?

Reply #848941 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

It's still not clear who actually pays the players, or what they get paid, or who gets the buyout money when they get the call up.


The NBL pays the players as the contract is with them not any specific team, what they get paid is irrelevant the financial aspect of contracts aren't made public like in the NBA, as per the first part the NBL would get the buyout money.

Reply #848942 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Why is KET's default response to have a crack at Perth fans for their attitude no matter what the discussion is? Koberulz is a Perth fan but is fairly balanced, Cram is definitely not a Perth fan so what relevance have Perth fans got to do with this discussion?

It's a pretty tedious response.

Reply #848943 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Why can only expected crappy NBL clubs get a next star?

I thought the aim is to attract young talent by finding the best situation for the player to the extent it works for the club too.

I didn't think the aim was to be a "competitive equaliser". If they want to do it that way, fine, like a season draft, but they might miss out on top talent.

Reply #848944 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

I should add it wouldn't surprise me if when a buyout happens the NBL gives the team they were loaned to a little bit of money to acknowledge the role they played in that player's development.

Reply #848945 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Are you a mod here KET?

Reply #848947 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

I didn't reference Cram as a Perth fan; Kobe is definitely not balanced - he essentially fights most of the forum.

And why not call out sooking for what it is? Like:

LK ruining the NBL (saved it)
Melbourne unfairly advantaged (is just a big rich club, like Perth)
Sydney unfairly advantaged (is just a big rich club, like Perth)
Mooney not being an NS is an NBL conspiracy (Perth refused to let him go through the process at risk they’d lose him)
Because of the above NBL NS is a joke (throwing baby out with bath water)
Wright is trash (highly successful coach whose time was up, not everything ends in a fairytale)
Henry sucks (just because your team sacked him doesn’t mean he sucks for eternity - he has performed above expectations given the roster)
Perth gets screwed by refs (everyone else gets screwed in Perth)

Reply #848948 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

That's a tedious about of Goliath complaining IMO

Reply #848949 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Amount*

Reply #848950 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

What have those complaints got to do with Perth fans though?

Reply #848952 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Koberulz is definitely one of the more balanced Perth fans, as in he isn't one-eyed on every issue.

Reply #848953 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

"Cram looks like you've picked a decision then made up arguments to fit it."

As opposed to sycophants on here who lap up NBL press releases as proof that the league is the second best in the world.


"- It compromises the competitiveness of the league"
Giddey was one of Adelaides most productive players - he was better on the court than off it. He literally made Adelaide more competitive.

And then he left. As did Ball. And Didi. Leaving their team's short. Leaving fans without a competitive team to watch.

This is exactly my point. They're either no good (Armstrong), good enough that the team needs them for both on court play and as the face of the franchise (Giddey and Melo) but could lose them at any moment, or are basically just imports (Jessup) giving some team's an extra restricted player for no good reason.



"Didi was good, Jessup is good - if anything it's fair to say NS has been surprisingly competitive and a boost to the overall talent and competitiveness."

For some teams, maybe. Overall? No

"NBL doesn’t have an integrity or transparency issue"

Hahahaha! Owner of the league has equity in several clubs. NS players are assign to teams...somehow and rules change on a whim. Sure, all good here.

"God forbid the NBL be agile and take advantage of opportunities"

Or, the program as launched and trumpeted by LK and his fanboys was an abject failure and they needed some way to turn it around so changed the rules on the fly, and as mentioned by others above, didn't make those changes known until they were already used.

"The NBL benefits from being savvy and agile, it needs to find a way to be sustainable"

And the only way they can think of doing this is with some short term buzz and clicks.

"And part of that is attracting top talent, credibility abroad and marketing prospects locally."

"Credibility abroad" means SFA compared to a good product that proudly presents the best basketball league here in Australia

"It doesn’t though, that’s the point of differentiation the NBL has from the G League"

How? The whole program is literally set up to develop talent for a superior league, which is the exact purpose of the G league.

"Crams argument seems based around next stars providing a lack of competitiveness, not a competitive imbalance by providing an advantage."

Both, lack of competitive integrity and imbalance, as described above.

Reply #848958 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

Or, the program as launched and trumpeted by LK and his fanboys was an abject failure and they needed some way to turn it around so changed the rules on the fly,
I'm not sure that's quite fair, either. The program in its initial form was predicated on the G-League being trash and the NCAA not paying players. There was significant movement on both fronts, so the NBL had to shift. Had the G-League Select thing not happened, and had there not been significant movement towards some form of player compensation in the NCAA, we'd probably still have Next Stars around in its initial form, featuring a bunch of the guys that are now in that G-League Select program. From a global basketball perspective it was hugely successful in creating better opportunities for basketball players coming out of high school, it just created those opportunities elsewhere as well once the NBA saw the NBL prove that there was a market there.



"Credibility abroad" means SFA compared to a good product that proudly presents the best basketball league here in Australia
"Credibility abroad" means talented players are more likely to come here and play, which increases the quality of the product. The fact that players know they can come here and play, and NBA scouts will pay attention to that, is massive for recruitment. It used to be that playing here was the equivalent of not playing at all, so anyone with NBA aspirations went to Europe. It wasn't just the extra coin, it was the credibility of the leagues with NBA front offices.

Reply #848969 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

"From a global basketball perspective it was hugely successful in creating better opportunities for basketball players coming out of high school"

The NBL didn't create this. They provided one more option, thats it.

Players chose pro over college before the NS program.

So short term buzz, because thats over now.

"The fact that players know they can come here and play, and NBA scouts will pay attention to that"

And players have been going from the NBL to NBA since well before the NS program. And they'll keep doing that once the program finally, dies.

Reply #848973 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

The NBL putting a program in place and actually focusing on the straight-out-of-high-school players, putting enough support around them to help them develop rather than just throwing them straight into a pro environment and treating them like any other player, absolutely was a huge part of pushing the NBA to develop the G-League Select concept.

Reply #848975 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Attracting a guy who wasn't eligible for college and wrapping a Next Star bow around him isn't exactly a revolutionary development.

Reply #848977 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Koberulz, you're correct, and I certainly don’t always agree with you.

Reply #848979 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

" The NBL putting a program in place and actually focusing on the straight-out-of-high-school players, putting enough support around them to help them develop rather than just throwing them straight into a pro environment and treating them like any other player, absolutely was a huge part of pushing the NBA to develop the G-League Select concept."

The NBA pretty much acknowledged this

Reply #848981 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I think next stars has been good for the league.

Its not perfect, especially the one where teams get a free import that isn't a high school kid like Didi or Jessup.

I think it has played a part in making the nbl a clearer pathway to the NBA. Hopefully that leads to more quality players wanting to play here, which in turn leads to a good on court product.

Reply #848982 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Every player who has gone from the NS program to the NBA already had a pathway there.

Reply #848983 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

I'm loathe to get involved in these conversations but the NS program has been great for the NBL. It has shone a big NBA spotlight on the league that not only gives exposure to all the other players in the NBL, which is why we're seeing record numbers of players going from the NBL to the NBA but it also increases awareness for future investment into the league and it's clubs.

I have no doubt LK being the pretty savvy businessman he is the 'future investment' angle was likely his main motivation in starting the NS program.

Reply #848984 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

I would stick to two imports and any player that comes out of college or does not want go to college as a next star, if you have done one year, no years or two years etc, allow them to be next starts.
The system has worked very well, broaden it so all teams can get players.

Reply #848985 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

"Every player who has gone from the NS program to the NBA already had a pathway there."

Sure, that's the reason why they get Next Stars contracts in the first place. But if the NBL helps them improve as players and prospects, then that's going to help attract more aspiring NBA talent.

I think Giddey and Ball both improved their draft stocks a fair bit by playing NBL. Would they have also done so in another environment, like college or the G-League? Maybe. But NBL is in that mix. Jae'Sean Tate and Cam Oliver are also good advertisements for the quality of the NBL product.

Reply #849023 | Report this post




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