KET
Last month

Ten set to clinch new $200m broadcast deal for A-League

Sports and broadcast rights love a good rumour mill, not all that long ago I posted that Nine/Stan were going hard after A-League.

Looks like Ten/Paramount + is closing in on a $200mil 5 year deal.



Ten will broadcast a Saturday night game live on its main free-to-air channel from the next A-League season, which is tentatively scheduled to begin in October, with the remaining games on Paramount+, which is set to launch in Australia in August.


~20% of the amount is contra


Link


Now we are seeing sports rights wise: Kayo, Stan Sport, Optus Sport, Amazon Prime (swimming), Paramount+

Good for NBL? Two potential good sides: #1 Another streamer in the game looking for sports - possible competition for NBL or #2 Ten keeping with their anti-NBL stance, but taking Soccer away from Stan whom may have more budget to acquire the NBL rights?

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Anonymous  
Last month

I just read this on Nets.com.au

Reply #849829 | Report this post


Bolt  
Last month

Nobody is paying up for the NBL. There's no reason to when the NBA is so accessible - the target audience (18-36) don’t watch the nbl. Not a single junior I’ve coached over the past few years watches it any way.

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Cram  
Last month

With the NBL every year having a "landmark deal" that still gives them no money, its hard to see anyone ever putting up any significant cash for rights.

The splintered streaming market could certainly provide an avenue. Stan sport needs *something* as there offerings are pretty average at the moment.

Bolt raises a good point with NBA games so accessible and featuring 99% of the best players in the world, its hard to compete.

Reply #849833 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

When it comes to reporting behind the scenes stuff on the NBL The Australian are always legit and as it came from that publication that the NBL was set to sign a big multi-million deal with Stan Sport I'm willing to take that as virtually gospel. The deal couldn't be announced this season for obvious reasons but expect that to come at the start of next season.

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Johnno  
Last month

ten have always been anti-nbl, no fuss here

Reply #849837 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

"...the NBL was set to sign a big multi-million deal with Stan Sport I'm willing to take that as virtually gospel..."

Yeah as I said, the need to fill up content for all these services definitely provides a window. I'd be super surprised though if the millions actually translate into much actual money for the league though.

I'm sure it will be a landmark deal though.

Reply #849839 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Being an NBL fan - always be skeptical... even the "Ten/One" situation turned to sh!t once Murdoch ruined the sports channel.


We'll have to wait and see - one benefit NBL has is streamers will pay overs for sports this year but I don't see that lasting. It may be that plenty of value associated with a deal will come in contra.

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ME  
Last month

I think the NBL was on track for some sort of broadcast money last year, but as crowds have diminished and viewership has stalled, it's hard to see what the carrot really is for broadcasters here.


As for a 'best ever' deal for the NBL, anything with any kind of payment changing hands will constitute a 'best ever' deal. But what the league needs is for some of the expenses it is paying to run to be taken off its hands to start with. The league is still not sustainable. But a deal, even of just a couple of million, would do wonders for a sustainable league.

Reply #849844 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

I'm not saying the Stan Sport deal is going to be great for us or whatever, it was reported at the time only one game a week would be shown on FTA on one of 9's digital channels likely 9Go.

That's a terrible deal for us fans going from ever game live and free on SBS on Demand along with x amount of games each weekend on SBS Viceland to supposedly just one game a week on 9Go or whatever. But I can understand why LK is doing it to try and claw back some of the many millions he's spent on the NBL since taking over.

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KET  
Last month

I think NBL would have better reach/ratings via Stan streaming than SBS/ESPN/Kayo combined tbh.

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Cram  
Last month

The Rugby deal with Nine/Stan was $100m over 3 years. I doubt a lot of that is actual cash to RA either, but this sets an absolute pie in the sky ceiling on any NBL deal. While Super Rugby's problems are deep, having Wallabies and trans tasman games gives rugby something that the NBL won't ever come close to.

How will the reduction in eye balls going from SBS free to Stan ($24 per month) affect sponsors?

Reply #849847 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Reduction in eye balls?

Do you actually think more people access SBSonDemand than Stan?

In terms of population streaming, Netflix/Stan/Fox(Kayo) are by far the largest.

Question really is, what would they lose from ESPN/Pub broadcasts/Kayo in a transition to Stan.

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KET  
Last month

https://www.a-league.com.au/news/new_landmark_rights_deal

Reply #849852 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

I think NBL would have better reach/ratings via Stan streaming than SBS/ESPN/Kayo combined tbh.


Nah no way. FTA is king it's big backward step for the NBL to lock itself away on some relatively obscure streaming service. I know the NBL doesn't get good ratings on SBS or FTA in general, it never has but the potential for viewers via free access is much better than any Pay TV/streaming platform.

I can't remember the supposed $ amount of the Stan Sport deal but I think it was in the $10-20 million range which is obviously $10-20 million more than the league is currently getting from SBS/ESPN but that deal only helps LK and possibly the clubs, it could actually go some way to killing off the league altogether.

I'm currently paying nothing to watch every single game live and free on SBS on Demand assuming this all goes ahead next season that will be reduced to only one game a week on 9Go or whatever and there's no way I'll pay $25 per month or whatever just to watch the NBL on Stan Sport. Supposedly you have to sign up to Stan's base package before you can even get to pay extra for Stan Sport.

It will likely be the thing that kills interest in the NBL for me and I'll probably move on from the sport after 30 years of following it but I can still understand why LK would be keen to do that deal given how much he's already lost on the NBL.

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Cram  
Last month

"Do you actually think more people access SBSonDemand than Stan?"

Given its free, yeah. The idea is, for both, people will have to go out of their way to find it. One option is free, the other is at least $24 a month. At least with the SBS deal there's a few games a week on FTA live. Also having some games on ESPN works well for pubs and for tie ins with people watching others sports and NBA

Reply #849855 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

The NBL is primarily a LIVE product, in that it is best experienced in person. The only advantages the NBL has over the NBA to Australians is that it is the best level of basketball they can see in person, and that it is Australian.

For those reasons, I am not sure how much a FTA presence concerns me. One or two FTA games per week which aren't going to rate well anyway may be enough as long as Stan is financially contributing and improving the situation for the league.

Apparently the deal, that may still go ahead, is worth 20 million a year. I highly doubt the NBL would be getting 20 million dollars worth of anything from SBS or anywhere else.

https://ministryofsport.com.au/nine-targeting-nbl-broadcast-rights-as-stan-sport-price-is-revealed/

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ME  
Last month

"I can't remember the supposed $ amount of the Stan Sport deal but I think it was in the $10-20 million range which is obviously $10-20 million more than the league is currently getting from SBS/ESPN but that deal only helps LK and possibly the clubs, it could actually go some way to killing off the league altogether."

That makes, literally, no sense. Helping the clubs is exactly what would keep the league alive.


"It will likely be the thing that kills interest in the NBL for me and I'll probably move on from the sport after 30 years of following it but I can still understand why LK would be keen to do that deal given how much he's already lost on the NBL."

Waaah I wont get everything exactly the way I want it so I am going to take my ball and leave!

I guess you didn't mind when Fox Sports took the NBL and never showed any FTA games for about 5 years straight but you mind now that the NBL is scooping up money from Stan and you only have to pay 20 bucks a month for it?


I love how fickle fans are. If you want the league to exist, be prepared to put your hand in your pocket. Some people think the league will die a grizzly death just because they personally wont be able to see if for free. Well NEWSFLASH - the league isn't sustainable as it is and you've been watching it for free for years!

Reply #849859 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

The league will die without a) continued public interest b) money. You cant keep expecting LK to bankroll this thing forever. People act like he's somehow profiteering off of the league but it was never meant to be a charity. He's spent way, way, way more on the NBL than he will ever get back.

Reply #849860 | Report this post


Isaac  
Last month

Not everyone is a spend-anything, drop-everything fan. But yes, it's likely a decent strategy for LK and clubs to cover their bottomline with the best TV deal they can.

Reply #849863 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Nah no way. FTA is king it's big backward step for the NBL to lock itself away on some relatively obscure streaming service.


Correction: Free to Air Main channels are king (Nine, Ten, Seven).

Let's be clear here - Viceland ranks 1.3% share of FTA viewership. There are 15 channels that rate higher than Viceland.

That is the definition of "obscure" from a FTA perspective.


relatively obscure streaming service.


Stan has 5million+ subscribers. That's not obscure, that is anything but obscure.

If we are talking obscure, SBSonDemand would be a far closer fit to that definition.

I know the NBL doesn't get good ratings on SBS or FTA in general, it never has but the potential for viewers via free access is much better than any Pay TV/streaming platform.

But it's not - millions watch Netflix & Stan. That's what people watch these days.

People don't watch SBSonDemand or Viceland. "Millions" is not a measurable term for those like it is Netflix/Stan.

The "potential" isn't there if it has next-to-zero market capture no matter what the cost differential is.

SBS - you've got the potential of a few thousand and whomever is willing to go to the depths of the ocean to find the NBL.

Stan you'd at least have millions accidentally see a promotional graphic for it which would be more advertising reach than they've ever had before.

Honestly, throwing around words like "obscure" and "potential" is peak-piss take.

Living under a rock or something? It's 2021, not 2000

Reply #849864 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

"Do you actually think more people access SBSonDemand than Stan?"

Given its free, yeah.


Just putting this here on the basis of sheer ridiculousness.

Reply #849865 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

Streaming for sports is a terrible idea.

Reply #849866 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

That makes, literally, no sense. Helping the clubs is exactly what would keep the league alive.


Uh no, it will kill interest in the league pretty quickly sponsors will bail big time and members will start falling away as the public forgets the league ever existed.

guess you didn't mind when Fox Sports took the NBL and never showed any FTA games for about 5 years straight but you mind now that the NBL is scooping up money from Stan and you only have to pay 20 bucks a month for it?


$25 a month over 6 months is $150 a year. Think about what you're actually saying, no one unless flush with cash is going to pay $150 a year to watch a league they were watching for free the previous year. I certainly won't. $10 a month or something maybe but $25 a month, forget it.

Reply #849867 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

"Streaming for sports is a terrible idea."


Yeah, I mean NBA League Pass has been an absolute failure...

Reply #849868 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

"25 a month over 6 months is $150 a year. Think about what you're actually saying, no one unless flush with cash is going to pay $150 a year to watch a league they were watching for free the previous year. I certainly won't. $10 a month or something maybe but $25 a month, forget it."

The league isn't a charity. It needs money to run. If you're watching for free and you never contribute you have no real place to talk about how the league should financially sustain itself. Just bare in mind while you refuse to pay for the league as it is, someone else has to. You're basically bumming a lift off of the rest of us because you cant forgo the cost of a single coffee per week to see a league you claim to care about.

"Uh no, it will kill interest in the league pretty quickly sponsors will bail big time and members will start falling away as the public forgets the league ever existed."

A league that is absolutely not rating on FTA. Ever heard of the saying that doing the same thing an expecting a different result is the meaning of insanity?

VICELAND doesn't rate. People aren't even accidentally watching it. Streaming services are the way of the future. I think KET actually outlined the situation perfectly when it comes to the visibility of the league through Stan.

Reply #849869 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

"Streaming for sports is a terrible idea."


Yeah, I mean NBA League Pass has been an absolute failure...
Streaming is poor quality compared to TV. And with the NBL it's half the frame rate as well. Really bad for something that's almost entirely motion.

Reply #849870 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

That is the definition of "obscure" from a FTA perspective.


Completely irrelevant. FTA TV can be accessed by everyone for the cost of nothing which makes it multiple times over more preferable than locking the league away on a mickey mouse streaming service.

Stan has 5million+ subscribers.


Ha if you believe that I've got a bridge in Sydney to sell you. There is no way under any circumstances that Stan has anything remotely close to 5 million subscribers. That is 20% of the entire population of Australia. The majority of the population of Australia doesn't even know Stan exists.

If that figure has come from Stan themselves I think you'll find they've been pretty liberal in their own terms of that they consider a 'subscriber' as a lot of these streaming platforms are known to do. I had a free trial sub when Stan first started haven't touched it in the years since I bet I'm counted among those 5 million, as a joint venture between Nine & Fairfax as is probably anyone that has signed up to 9Now, a Fairfax newspaper past or present etc.

Reply #849871 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

Pretty sure it's already been said that Nine will also show games. I think we have to look at what will be the best case scenario for the league, and not just for ourselves. The league looks like it will just keep chugging along but that's only because there is a rich owner bankrolling everything. If a day comes that he decides to stop doing that, this whole house of cards will immediately collapse. Those who whinge about LK have to realize that without him there is no league. If he decided to stop injecting money tomorrow the thing wouldn't even get up for next season. So rather than LK just "wanting money back", I think people need to see it as another very important financial lifeline for the NBL.

Reply #849872 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

"Stan has 5million+ subscribers."

Haha!

From an article 4 May 2021 (Link)

"...with more than 2.3 million active subscribers and more than 4 million people that had entered their credit card details on the platform..."

"Stan gained nearly 150,000 sport subscribers since it began broadcasting rugby union matches earlier this year."

Reply #849874 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

The league isn't a charity. It needs money to run. If you're watching for free and you never contribute you have no real place to talk about how the league should financially sustain itself. Just bare in mind while you refuse to pay for the league as it is, someone else has to. You're basically bumming a lift off of the rest of us because you cant forgo the cost of a single coffee per week to see a league you claim to care about.


You're trying to go pretty personal here as is your way when someone disagrees with you ME. Given your history on this forum I would've thought you would be a bit more circumspect about going down this route.

Not that it's any of your damn business but I've got a mortgage to pay and I struggle to afford much non-essential stuff outside of that and the associated costs that come with having a mortgage. Hence why I won't be paying $150 a season to watch the NBL.

Reply #849875 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Last month

Haha!


And that;s coming from the publication that jointly owns the company too, so you know those figures are significantly rubbery as all streaming platform figures are.

Reply #849876 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

FTA TV can be accessed by everyone for the cost of nothing which makes it multiple times over more preferable


Completely irrelevant if it has no market share (viewers), which it doesn't, it doesn't matter how "free" it is. Nobody is going to watch it still.

Accessibility means nothing if everyone with accessibility has no intention on accessing it.


Ha if you believe that I've got a bridge in Sydney to sell you.


Do you live under a rock or are you just completely technology illiterate? What's your excuse for being so absent to reality?

Do you call it "the youtube" and "the google"?

Here:

Netflix is by far Australia's most watched subscription television service, with 14,168,000 viewers in an average four weeks, an increase of 2,265,000 viewers from a year ago (+19.0%). Over two-thirds of all Australians aged 14+ (67.2%) now watch Netflix in an average four weeks.

Foxtel experienced even faster growth across its services this year and now has a total of 7,748,000 viewers of either Foxtel, Foxtel Now, Kayo Sports or Binge in an average four weeks, up 2,363,000 viewers from a year ago (+43.9%).

Also growing viewership strongly during 2020 have been third-placed Stan which grew 1,562,000 (+46.4%) to 4,928,000 viewers, Amazon Prime which was up 2.158,000 (+190.2%) to 3,293,000 viewers and newcomer Disney+ which now has 2,870,000 viewers after being launched in late 2019.

Reply #849877 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

You need to face reality here: People don't watch SBS, Viceland.

They never have, and they never will.

People are watching Netflix & Stan and they are watching en masse.

Reply #849878 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

People don't watch the NBL either and yet here we are

Reply #849879 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

If you want people to watch it beyond the hardcore NBL fans, you need it where people are.

Reality is that's not SBS and that is Stan.

You can quibble about the cost you'd have to fork out, you can about quality of stream vs TV but reality is when you're talking "reach" - SBS you're talking thousands if you're lucky, Stan you're talking millions whether it be a few million from a "subscription" or that 5mil viewership mark. It doesn't really matter, those Stan figures are substantially better than anything SBS is capable of offering.

If you want the NBL to succeed, you might have to accept it's in the best interests of the NBL that it costs you more to watch it.

Reality being, major FTA is really not an option.

Reply #849882 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

Even if you take it from the inflated number of "viewers" over a 12 month period which includes people binging a series and then unsubscribing or even just using the free trial for a month, only a miniscule amount of them have then put up the additional $10 a month to add the sports pack. Its not as if those (haha) 5 million are just going to be flicking around and decide to watch a game. They have to commit more $ so only those that are proactively looking for NBL will watch it, which is EXACTLY the same as it is on Viceland, only on there, its free.

Overall viewing figures mean nothing when the NBL audience is so small and have to proactively search for the games they want to watch regardless of who's broadcasting.

Reply #849885 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN was the best spot right now (ie with 7, 9 and 10's main channels not an option) for people stumbling across the league.

Streaming has so many options it's easy to avoid discovering things, and I doubt people would just turn on the NBL on a whim.

Whereas if you're flicking through the Foxtel sports channels because you want to watch sports, there's only a handful of options. Add in the fact that the NBL can be advertised during the NBA, and even use prime-time NBA replays as a lead-in to live NBL broadcasts, and I think that's a better option for people organically discovering the product than being one of a million options on Stan.

Reply #849886 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

One subscription does not equate one person, it equates several people. People share subs with friends/family.

I have Netflix, Stan, Amazon, Disney - all shared and I only pay for one of them. Streaming services loosely accept this concept (for now) by offering a higher subscription which allows for more simultaneous devices.

We are in the age of mass-streaming consumption!

Reply #849887 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

At the end of the day $20 mil is $20 mil and if its on offer the NBL needs to accept it.

Remember the article a year ago stating that clubs combined a losing $15-20 mil, so this would basically bring the NBL back to break even point.

At the end of the day just as with the latest hit movie, you either pay to see it or miss out, or hope it ends up on FTA or something for free at a later date. The latest Movie isnt free either, why does the NBL need to be,

At the end of the day if a fan isnt willing to invest less than $1 per day to watch NBL, then you are not exactly a fan that the NBL or NBL clubs will miss.

The NBL needs revenue to survive, especially if you want guys like Cotton and Landale in the NBL, so they cant just give it away for free forever.

Sure the ideal would be a large FTA deal, but that just doesnt seem likely.

Seems more likely to be 1 or 2 games on FTA for a taste, but if you want the whole thing you need to pay, just like your local ice cream shop.

If you dont wish to pay, thats fine, you will just have to miss out, that is life.

Reply #849889 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

If Stan Sport gives the NBL anywhere close to $20m per year I predict Stan Sport won't last very long as a platform.

Reply #849890 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

KET is spot on in their posts on the topic.

Reply #849891 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

KR, I think that's the equation to consider in all of this.

What would they lose from 1) not being on a Foxtel sports channel for people to "flick past", 2) not being on a Foxtel sports streaming platform which is designed for sports people and 3) not being so readily available on Pub screens by virtue of being on ESPN.

The counter, I suppose is,

1) ESPN ratings are super duper low. Less than the amount that may even go to the game at times I think? What's an average NBL ESPN tv rating? 4-12k?

2) Are sports fanatics actually watching the NBL on Kayo? The glut of sports may not work in NBL favour. If they aren't competing against too many other sports on Stan, they might not necessarily be lost "in all the options", depends how it's presented. Stan may be more family market based - something NBL seems to be going for and doing well in.

3) Are sports pubs still a big thing? Small bars and trendier restaurants seem to make the old sports pub no longer a viable thing, certainly not to the extent they used to be.

4) Money goes a long way. Losing money and accepting as a loss leader vs a positive revenue stream.

Reply #849892 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

I think people confuse "potential audience" with "audience". You might think SBS is potentially available to everyone, but how many people actually watch a game there? Maybe twenty thousand? Up to fifty thousand on a good day if you're beyond lucky?

I think sponsors have followed the NBL long enough to know their product, despite whatever platform, isn't suddenly going to go out to millions upon millions of Australians. You could put it on Stan, and I cant see viewership doing substantially better or worse either way without a rather aggressive marketing campaign.

But having said that, a 20 million dollar deal per year frees up some money for them to do that, as well as lure the next bankable stars over into the league.

The NBL stands to lose some eyes in the short term from the move. I think that is a given. There will be people who've made a habit of watching the game on the weekend, who aren't as invested as we might be, who will not go out of their way to pay for it - I get that. But there will also be people who have Stan, which arguably has a bigger reach, who will only just become aware of the league through the Stan app.

You cant make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. In every deal there are winners and losers. But is Stan's potentially bigger reach and 20 million per year worth more than the free SBS exposure and a league that is being solely bankrolled by a single man?

I think the answer is pretty obvious.

Reply #849893 | Report this post


Curtley  
Last month

If every team has a top quality Asian player on their squad surely the tv rights to stream or broadcast in the big Asian population would be able to bring in the money.

Anyone know if Japan can watch Utd games other than via NBL.TV?

Reply #849918 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

NBL is free to view worldwide on Twitch. I've seen the odd Japanese in the chatroom but it's rare. Basketball isn't a big team spectator sport in Japan.

Reply #849930 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Interesting discussion. While I don't use subscription streaming services, all of my kids do. None of them use them for sport but I'm sure their peers do.

On that basis, the NBL broadcasting future must include streaming on a high profile service at some point. The quality issue is certainly a barrier, relative to digital television broadcast. That may change as higher bandwidth services proliferate.

The quality of the product is also a barrier, as has been discussed ad nauseam in previous threads. i.e., commentator quality, camera angles, camera direction, etc.

The competition from NBA and, to some extent, USA college games is also a problem for NBL. The glamour factor and constant hype around NBA means NBL will always be seen as a second rate product by most casual viewers. In my opinion, the NBL promotes this view as well, when all their marketing mentioning NBA implicitly or explicitly says its the better and more exciting league.

NBL has been in the 10,000-30,000 viewer range for years, with the occasional 50,000 viewers' game. It will probably languish there, regardless of platform, until these things improve. In particular, they need to make NBL appear to be a more interestign or more exciting option than NBA, for casual viewers.

Reply #850037 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

I think the NBL needs a combination of factors to continue to progress.

One fundamental aspect is that it's still embarrassing, albeit substantially less so than the past, to talk about NBL and say you like it.

People do judge and criticise, and pull the "it’s crap watch the NBA". They think any old NBA player could rock up and score 40ppg without trying. We know that’s not the case.

NBL doesn’t need to compete with NBA, it can compliment. It has the right approach to it as well.

Aim of the game here is to have that conversation going, part of that is to establish and market big names both commentary wise and NBL player wise. Create that narrative, who’s the Dustin Martin of the NBL? The LeBron of the NBL? Perth do well to have their established star in Cotton and if there’s any city where the average Joe is up for NBL chat it’s Perth.

I’d love to see NBL replicate the TNT Inside the NBA concept. From a broadcast perspective I think that will achieve more narrative for water cooler chat.

From a stadium perspective- you go three pronged attack #1 your NBL diehards obv: #2 your families for those weekend games in particular; #3 post work professionals who want to hit up a game have a few drinks for those weekday games.

If the NBL was super lucky, they could replicate Netball situation but better and have a sat/sun arvo game on Nine, rest on Stan Sport so you get FTA coverage plus streaming of all games, plus a little bit of money to make it a revenue stream instead of an expense. Might not be big money, and you’d take less if it meant Nine over Go for a game or two a week.



Reply #850045 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

The NBL has two advantages over the NBA

1. We can go watch games live
2. We can see our own countrymen play.

It doesn't have to try to be the NBA, or better than some European league that nobody cares about, it just needs to be the best league in Australia where we can go watch our boys play.

Instead the league has been focused on buzz and clicks from OS as a sign of success, increasing roster spots for restricted players, thereby reducing opportunity/playing time for Australians (and Kiwis) and positioning itself to where "success" is measured by how many players cross between the NBL and NBA rather than creating a good product for Australians.

Reply #850049 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

I think that's a fuddy duddy interpretation Cram. Whether we like it or not, we live in such a globalised world where people will watch and enjoy and chat about NBA because it’s the biggest best thing and they don’t really care too much about the NBL because it’s a small inferior league.

You’re not going to make the NBL popular with that Australia first isolationist approach. It’s not AFL.

The NBL is right to leverage its success in transitioning people to the NBA to create credibility and tackle those myths. It’s popularity has come where people are more willing to watch and listen and part of that is due to seeing Bogut, Ball come in.

NBL has opportunity to flex now, opportunity to say hey we are a top shelf league with players the NBA is paying attention to. Australians love a story and a situation where there’s some unheralded potential. That is drawing popularity for the league.

The other major flex point they can make is the NBL is entertaining, there is actually defence and team basketball. NBA to the NBL is like the NBA Allstar game to the NBA regular season. Best of the best? Sure. Lots of offence? You bet. Any defence? None whatsoever in comparison. Competitiveness? Very little in comparison.

NBL is a better watch, there is unheralded potential and people can go to the game and enjoy a night or arvo out. That’s the NBLs advantage in this. That’s the approach to take.

Reply #850051 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

I think part of the NBL's problem is they don't do a good enough job promoting their players, especially their imports.

Yeah, we've all heard about Bryce Cotton. Perth has firmly bought Bryce Cotton. And congratulations to them. But can someone tell me why I've seen more Brendan Teys promotional photos in Adelaide than Brandon Paul?

One is an Ex-NBA player who, if he suits up next season, could be an MVP candidate. The other one is probably a step away from being the water boy. Please explain!

I think the NBL as a league needs to look at how they've pumped LaMelo and think about doing that for the players who are still here. Keifer Sykes has an interesting life story, why not try focusing a b it on someone like him?

I feel like the league has gone back to lacking personality again. I think they did try for a short period to sell their stars, but once they got done with the Jason Cadee crash story, and LaMelo left, they were left without any real ideas.

Also, the product on court has taken a knock with less imports in the league.

I think the NBL's credibility until now was on a steady rise - I often see LaMelo jerseys in Adelaide. I think nabbing Bogut was another big deal. But the NBL will need to keep coming up with these big gets to keep that momentum up. I feel like we're just a slow season away from falling back into the abyss

Reply #850052 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Brandon Paul an MVP candidate? Gee a lot of people are day drinking today.

Reply #850053 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Completely agree - NBL and clubs need to do better to market and create that narrative for star players.

Absolutely nothing inspiring in the marketing lately - chucking Teys or McVeigh up for promos is just terrible.

Reply #850054 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

For you, the NBL may be better to watch. But to the majority of hoops fans across the country with the highest per capita and most expensive consumption of NBA league pass in the world (and especially compared to god awful NBL ratings) it clearly isn't.

I'm not saying you're wrong as your opinion on what is or isn't entertaining is just as valid as everyone else. What I'm saying is, when all of your comms compare yourself to a clearly superior league, don't be surprised when people would prefer to watch that superior league.

Yeah you might get some bums on seats with people wanting to see former/future NBA player in the flesh. But on TV? If I'm an NBA fan with two hours to kill will I watch an NBL team with one or two former fringe NBA players or an NBA game with superstars and the added bonus of not having to put up with the likes of decal issues, Dwayne Russell and NBL refs?

Reply #850055 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

How does that tell you that there is a market for people just wanting a weaker more Australian oriented league?

High consumption would tell you to get attention NBL will need to piggyback and leverage NBA, which is what they've been doing, and reasonably well i'd suggest.

From my anecdotal perspective: I have many mates who love sports and ignored NBL as being that small Aussie league and didn't find it worthy of their brain space. They watch plenty of NBA. Last few years it has grabbed their attention, they have watched a bit on TV, wanted to go to a couple of games, they know some bare minimum stuff about what is going on.

Realistically, they are a big part of the market the NBL needs to capture.

The alternative is a smaller, less revenue generating league with pissy 3-4k crowds instead of some of the 8-10k crowds we get today.

Reply #850060 | Report this post


ME  
Last month

I think the NBL can excel as a LIVe in-person product but as Cram already illuminated, it will always struggle for a consistent viewership when there are other, superior products just as easily available.

The NBL needs to figure out how it can grow without expecting a huge jump in viewers because I don't believe we'll ever actually get them.

Reply #850062 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

The alternative is a smaller, less revenue generating league with pissy 3-4k crowds instead of some of the 8-10k crowds we get today.

Given the league loses so much money now even with these big crowds*, is that not a clue that this model doesnt work?

*for some teams, and for some other teams sometimes and for other teams, never.

Reply #850064 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Cram, you're so far off the mark with your points it's comical and a little unbelievable.

Truly living in a bubble!

NBL was on track for breakingeven/small profit pre-covid, NBL sides had/have as much investment as they have ever had. They're as close to breaking even as ever.

Given the financial status of the NBL and clubs throughout the last say, 30 years, compared to now, have a think, is that really the "hot take" you're going to go with?

I think it's a fair shake to say the method goes in the right direction.

Perfect? No. Right direction? More so than ever before.

Let's be clear here, you're not proposing a model that will drive profitability or revenue growth or increased investment.

You're not actually really proposing anything bar a possibly dubious hark back to the most unsuccessful times of the NBL.

What a stunning plan, and bizarre!


Given you posited that SBSonDemand has "more potential" than an "obscure" Stan (Stan is popular, nobody gives a sh!t about SoccerBeforeSexOnDemand), I don't think we need to track over that again, it kind of tells us that you're living in a really different universe to the rest of us.

I wouldn't put it past you to posit that Adelaide 36ers get larger crowds than the Perth Wildcats at this rate. Although, wouldn't that be nice!




Reply #850076 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

Ah yes, the league owner propping up several clubs, the apparently wildly successful next stars program getting its biggest ever name and then that club going broke that off season. Everything was going swimmingly yeah?

Its all smoke and mirrors. Not one thing LK has done has been remotely sustainable and thats just a fact. They've encouraged a spend your way to success platform that never had a plan B. If you wanna keep believing their press releases as being accurate, thats fine, but don't be surprised when LK eventually gets sick of losing money and the whole thing falls in, because he hasnt fixed anything, he's simply propped it up and sells the story of success.

I would take a league living within its means, providing opportunities to local talent and playing before "pissy" crowds over this aching to pretend anyone in the US cares about the NBL

Reply #850079 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Let's be clear, you're expecting us to take your skepticism, of which you have absolutely nada inside knowledge, at the same time as you're peddling a return to a past where things were really, really, really bad financially.

You're trashing a point in time where things appear to be going pretty decently and celebrating returning to a point where things were very shit.

You don't even deserve much benefit of doubt either because you killed any credibility by peddling the idea that SBS has more potential than "obscure" Stan - a point made so clearly lacking in basis or reality, what are we meant to take of your "don't drink the kool-aid, let's go back to the past".

Beggars belief.

Nobody says the NBL is a perfect position, but damn you've got some crock of shit ideas.

Take that tinfoil hat off and come back to reality with the rest of us please.

Reply #850080 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

You keep quoting that I said Stan was obscure.

I simply made the point that whether Stan or SBS, hardly anyone is watching the NBL, and they have to seek it out. One is free, one isn't. Thats it.

you're also creating straw man arguments about my position because you don't seem to be able to recognise that "I don't think the league current model is a good idea" is not "hey lets try what didnt work last time again instead". Maybe there's more than 2 ways to do things? Nah its gotta be LK or bust right? No grey anywhere.

Reply #850085 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

Who was the bloke that wanted to do a TV-based, boutique-stadium type league?

Reply #850086 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

You keep quoting that I said Stan was obscure.


Yeah, I do apologise, I have lumped yours & Zodiacs specific terminology together.

Although you stating there would be a reduction in eye balls from SBS to Stan and thinking more people access SBS than Stan is very much the same point deserving of the same response.

So, I guess I don't really apologise.

Maybe there's more than 2 ways to do things? Nah its gotta be LK or bust right?


Well, this is where you apologise, because I didn't strawman it, I did say that you've had the benefit of criticising what we have but haven't actually provided an alternative.

Not only did I not draw a black & white, I specifically used that as an argument against you.

You haven't come up with some other magic white knight idea.

The only alternative I can glean from your argument is what has already been done in the past. You know what they say about trying to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

Reply #850087 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Who was the bloke that wanted to do a TV-based, boutique-stadium type league?


That was a doozy.

I think it was back in the day where people had a rose tinted view that the NBL could be popular on TV.

I do think LK went the right direction to get those crowds higher - Nine/Stan with some $$$ would be amazing, but I don't think NBL will ever crack decent ratings.

NBL has been spectacularly consistent at delivering underwhelming results TV ratings wise. Even on a low bar, they haven't really delivered. I don't think that will change to be perfectly honest.

Reply #850088 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

Although you stating there would be a reduction in eye balls from SBS to Stan and thinking more people access SBS than Stan is very much the same point deserving of the same response.
I dislike this argument because it assumes content can't drive viewers to a channel.

I don't think anyone is stumbling on the NBL on Stan or SBS On Demand, but SBS On Demand is clearly better able to provide people with access if the league happens to pique their interest somehow.

It also has the advantage right now of being on the same paid package (Kayo) as the NBA. If you've got Kayo for NBA, are you going to also get Stan for NBL? I'm not sure you are. Don't know what League Pass costs, which would also factor in.

Reply #850089 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

I never said more access SBS either, simply that there are fewer impediments to accessing it.

I like your theory of being called out on straw man arguments and just doubling down on it without any shame.

I also love the idea you can't point out flaws in a model unless you have a fully detailed alternative ready to put in place argument. It's right up there with "you can't discuss who the MVP is because you're crap at basketball".

Reply #850092 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

I'm not sure "don't drink the kool-aid" counts as "pointing out flaws", you're being very generous to yourself.

The only extent of an alternative you've detailed is one that has been tried and tested and it wasn't a great time for the NBL.

I'm not sure if you added any more detail that it would help your argument, you jumped down the rabbit hole the moment you took that approach.

You're pretty much landing the line of arguments of anti-vaxxors and climate skeptics where you pedal unsubstantiated theories, equating "hang on, where's your basis" with "don't drink the kool-aid" and then peddle ideas that are already established to be not very well grounded.

Reply #850093 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

It's right up there with "you can't discuss who the MVP is because you're crap at basketball".


I think an adequate interpretation is "you can't discuss xx because you don't know what you're talking about and you're sounding a little bit off"

Reply #850095 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

I've been clear that my criticism is that the league is not sustainable. This is supported well by even the biggest LK fans agreeing he has pumped millions into the league and also that he is still an owner of several teams. In addition to the lack of opportunities for local players, the positioning of the league as a NBA D league and valuing buzz over a good product. But sure, keep mid representing my position so that you feel good about fake quoting me some more.

Reply #850097 | Report this post


koberulz  
Last month

It's actually more like "you can't discuss who the MVP is without saying who you think the MVP is".

The NBL has to exist in some form. If this is the least-bad form, so be it.

Reply #850098 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

Ok a better example is you can't be cortical of a player because he would beat you in a game.

This "least bad" model is fine until one guy gets sick of losing money. That's my whole point.

Reply #850099 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

We've already argued over your views re D League and the like.

And again, you've just decided to react to NBL's statement of "we were on track for profit until Covid" with "don't drink the kool-aid".

That really is an insufficient argument.

And again,

What I want to know, is in what world your proposed alternative is in any way a better idea than what you are criticising now.

You seem to be proposing something we already know doesn't work because it didn't work before, hence we have LK's version now.

Reply #850101 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

Well, we had a league that wouldn't fall over if one guy suddenly disappeared. We don't have that now.

Reply #850102 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

If you were arguing a different pathway for the NBL that's fine, but argue one which hasn't already failed.

I'm not here to be calling this version "sustainable" (may or may not be) or perfect or anything like that.

I'm on record saying what has occurred has done a lot of good, but there has to be a point where LK doesn't lose so much money and we don't have a big spending gap of "haves" and "have nots".

However, what I didn't do, was argue that a clearly unsustainable past approach is the way forward.

I do think the NBL has targeted the right markets and for the most part marketed in the right spots, if not for lack of creating a good narrative. I do think a Nine/Stan move would be beneficial over SBS. It is possible losing Kayo/Pub type situation may make it not such a great move, that is a very hard one to tell.

I do think the NBL has been savvy and agile which has been critical to growth, albeit has been criticised as "lack of transparency". I do think it has put the NBL in a far better position now than it has ever been - record revenue, amount of investment, sponsors, crowd all trend in a positive direction to make that point.

Nobody says the NBL is super stable, just look at the A-League, shit happens. However, it is a "least-bad" model at the moment.

Reply #850104 | Report this post


KET  
Last month

Well, we had a league that wouldn't fall over if one guy suddenly disappeared.


I think the league was going to fall, that's why owners switched from saying no to LK to saying yes.

At the very best, you'd have had a league made up of 4 teams, because Adelaide/Illawarra/Cairns/Brisbane damn well wouldn't have been in it.

Reply #850105 | Report this post


Cram  
Last month

Yeah I disagree with your opinions on this but that's what we're here for I guess.

Ironically I'm one of the few people who have Stan sport (for the Rugby) so I'll be fine

Reply #850106 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Guys its simple, if Stan Sports is the highest bidder, than the NBL needs to take it.

If SBS are willing to pay more, than stay on SBS

The ratings seem to sit between 10k-30k no matter where it is and that would likely be the same on Stan Sports or SBS.

People who are not willing to pay less than $1 per day for Stan Sports if required are not really the fans that the NBL is going to miss anyway.

Reply #850107 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Yeah, the NBL can totally abandon casual fans to go behind the Rugby Union and some Tennis $20+ a month paywall

Reply #850183 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last month

Yep for $20 mil per year they absolutely can and should, even if that's $1 or 2 mil per year. At some point they need to get revenue in to survive. Casual fans don't pay the bills, the owners were losing$15-20 mil per year combined n many getting sick of it, a deal like this needs to happen to keep the NBL alive at current levels for years to come.

Plus there will be still 2 games on FTA for the casual fans to get a taste of the Action.

Basically no sport has all games on FTA these days anyway and it hasn't hurt them.

The NBL needs to get the biggest cheque they can whoever that is with.

Reply #850201 | Report this post




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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 9:29 pm, Tue 15 Jun 2021 | Posts: 880,895 | Last 7 days: 1,679