Jack Toft
Earlier this year

MOTD: Perth v Melbourne June 4

Well......what a game for a Friday night. Perth Stadium should be packed fuller than the cupboard of a toilet paper hoarder. A Perf win could see them potentially steal top spot. A Melbourne win means they are Minor Premiers. No Cotton, so all Perf players need to be like midgets at a urinal - step up.

Perf will be tickled Pink with a win, especially in this their fourth annual pink game.

The presence of Melbourne has made the court "dirty", but hey you know what they say about Melbourne being the @ of Australia. They will need their soy lattes tonight!

Some classic matchups should get fans of all clubs salivating like a Pavlov dog. Number 1 Billing is Landale v Mooney. Mmmm... like showing donuts to Homer Simpson.

Overall, it could be a flopfest between CG43 and the rest of the Floppycats, but this will be no easy win for either team.

My Kiss of Death must go to United. If they think they are Premiership material you need to win in Perth, otherwise you might as well just be playing paper toss with Andrew Gaze for a Sportsbet advert.

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koberulz  
Earlier this year

Perth Stadium should be packed fuller than the cupboard of a toilet paper hoarder.
The footy's not until Saturday/Sunday.

Real shame there's basically nothing on the line in this one, it could've been a great way to end the season.

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D2.0  
Earlier this year

Yeah, one more bucket against the Hawks, and this could have been a cracker.

Hopefully its an opportunity for extra bench minutes and for a couple of the slightly lesser lights to shine.

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Jack Toft  
Earlier this year

Perth Arena...

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Senator11  
Earlier this year

Hang on, if Perth win then United lose both games they finish on even wins so it's still a possibility (if the ladder is correctly updated)?

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KET  
Earlier this year

Melbourne's playing Adelaide.

In other words, United have got the minor 'ship all sown up

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

No Cotton no , Perth yes they will compete all the way but no team loses mvp and win, no matter how good Gleeson is. It's a shame for tonight’s game and the finals but as Ned said such is life. United by 8.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Only a shame for Perth fans. But if you win imagine how more obnoxious you'll become.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Says the guy who is happy a star of the game is injured.

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KET  
Earlier this year

^ how could you possibly distinguish that in an anonymous poster based on that post?

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LV  
Earlier this year

It's a shame Cotton isn't out there

United would've likely won the title anyway, they've only lost one game for the entire season when they've been either full strength or missing one rostered player

But now the title will be seen (by some) as having an asterisk in Cotton's absence

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LV  
Earlier this year

Plus of course, I do enjoy watching Cotton.

Apart from his bizarre leg kicks (which are as bad as anything CG43 does) he's a genuine NBL superstar and an absolute legend of the league

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koberulz  
Earlier this year

United would've likely won the title anyway, they've only lost one game for the entire season when they've been either full strength or missing one rostered player
Oh shut the fuck up.

But now the title will be seen (by some) as having an asterisk in Cotton's absence
But playing 78% of their games at home isn't asterisk-worthy at all, of course.

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LV  
Earlier this year

Interestingly this new lockdown has restricted the power of that argument

By the end of the regular season, United will have played 18 games inside Victoria against interstate teams or NZ, plus 13 games outside Victoria.

Given NZ was forced to play every game away, that isn't much of a discrepancy at all.

78% lol



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LV  
Earlier this year

Plus of course it's looking like United won't be getting any home playoff games

Which would make their achievement extra special if anything, a bit like Storm and Richmond of 2020

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Perthworld  
Earlier this year

United would've likely won the title anyway

No, they weren't.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Interestingly this new lockdown has restricted the power of that argumen

No it hasn't. The current lockdown doesn't change the fact that Melbourne received an extremely beneficial schedule.

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LV  
Earlier this year

Someone do the analysis - exactly how many more games beneficial will United's schedule be compared to most other teams, by the time they've played the last 6 games in a row away from home?

Not too much I would've thought, when you consider that

- Every team got the benefit over NZ this year in true home/neutral/true away split

- 5 of United's Victorian games were neutral vs SEM

Besides United is like 7+ games clear of every team except Perth, so it would be nonsensical to suggest this gave them some unfair advantage in terms of playoff positions

And given Perth will likely have true home court advantage in a playoff matchup anyway, that means the whole argument is nonsense- if the ONLY team where United could've had an unfair advantage ends up with the playoff home court advantage over United anyway

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koberulz  
Earlier this year

Given NZ was forced to play every game away, that isn't much of a discrepancy at all.
"It's okay for my team to have a huge advantage because another team had a huge disadvantage."

Someone do the analysis - exactly how many more games beneficial will United's schedule be compared to most other teams, by the time they've played the last 6 games in a row away from home?
You started this with a hypothetical about Cotton not getting injured, I'm pretty sure it's fair to include the Melbourne lockdown not happening in that hypothetical.

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KET  
Earlier this year

" But now the title will be seen (by some) as having an asterisk in Cotton's absence
But playing 78% of their games at home isn't asterisk-worthy at all, of course."

Neither are asterisk worthy.

Can't play this game of “what if” and call everything asterisk worthy.

LV regular season means jack shit, last year proved that where Perth trounced Sydney when it counted.

Also, Melbourne haven’t won it - you’re playing with fire there and revving people up. Your club is like real madrid and rarely gets the job done despite spending big each year. The time it got the job done was a very dubious series v 36ers where Adelaide had injuries and probably still ought to have come away with it.

That’s not a confidence instilling track record.

You know which club has a history of getting shit done? Perth - so you’re taking the piss.

You should really be sheepish and hope your club doesn’t screw it up (again).

KR - Need to get over the Victorian thing. Ok you didn’t like the NBL Cup idea. But you’re acting like a Collingwood fan where you’re happy to take all the advantages of being a super power club but the moment you feel disadvantaged or slighted you go to town on the league.

Some of us go for clubs where we don’t have the benefit of feeling so entitled! At least we are happy to give the league props for trying something, for planning ahead and try to cover their bases in a time that’s not great for business. You refuse to take into consideration that there may have been some really beneficial factors at play when they decided to do it.

If SEM manages to win it all, will there be the same criticisms or is it reserved for United?

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LV  
Earlier this year

Fair points, I'm not counting my chickens

Perth plays good defence and Perth is a tough place to play. Blanchfield or Steindl gets into form and they'll remain a super tough opponent

Plus I've been following NBL and AFL and the injuries keep mounting. It's something to do with covid and training loads, but there remains a serious possibility of further injuries which will require adjustments and lineup shuffling

There's a long way to go, no doubt. Especially when we don't even know where the playoffs will be held!

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LV  
Earlier this year

But having said all that, United is favourites for a reason

And SEM is a huge threat too. If they make it.

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KET  
Earlier this year

Can we all agree the only fair outcome is for the Hawks to win it all? ;)

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koberulz  
Earlier this year

KR - Need to get over the Victorian thing. Ok you didn't like the NBL Cup idea. But you’re acting like a Collingwood fan where you’re happy to take all the advantages of being a super power club but the moment you feel disadvantaged or slighted you go to town on the league.
WTF are you talking about?

Perth won the cup, and it was a big part of them being able to gather some momentum and put together a good season after a poor start. The Cup helped Perth. And it was still a stupid idea.

If SEM manages to win it all, will there be the same criticisms or is it reserved for United?
It's already been pointed out to you that this is just the latest in a long line of advantages Melbourne has been given (including playing more games in Victoria than even SEM, by the way). Context matters.

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Hopscotch 55  
Earlier this year

Looking over the year I can't see any team other than Perth with more than a very outside chance of taking Melbourne in a 5 game final series.

Possibility if Perth avoided injuries the whole way through, Melbourne had a more balanced set of Victoria based vs away games, and just two baskets had gone the other way (Wagstaff.. you know the one, Mooney prayer last game), Perth would have locked up top spot and the equation would have been fairly even.

In the hypothetical scenario Melbourne deeper and with more talent, Perth with better systems, more discipline, better coaching, and home court advantage.

Melbourne get sloppy with the ball > Perth win.
Melbourne don't hit their shots > Perth win.
Melbourne don't box out > Perth win.
All the usual "how to beat Perth requirements".

This year I don't think Perth will make the grand final, and 90+% chance (at least) Melbourne will sail through with an easy win. But no asterisks - they put a power team on the court this year, would have been coming top two no matter what else did or didn't happen during the season, and would have started favourites in any scenario except potentially if Perth finished top and had home court finals advantage.

Perth have proven again and again they can beat teams that on paper should be superior - being able to lockdown a team and stop them from scoring for a quarter or a half is their basketball and can always get a win. But there's very little margin for error for Perth when the finals get started this year..

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KET  
Earlier this year

Yeah you pointed out that Bendigo once had Boomers v fucking Qatar so therefore the world should hate Victoria. So much context.

My team did shit in the Cup, and it was still a good idea .

Your word isn't the law, all it really says is you’re going to find a way to complain because you don’t like Victoria. I’m south Australian with an inherent anti-Vic bias but even I’m not that unreasonable.

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KET  
Earlier this year

Agreed hopscotch

Wonder how much this game will be a precursor to the Grand Final...

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koberulz  
Earlier this year

The Cup was a terrible idea:

It blocked out a full month of the season in a year where scheduling flexibility was paramount.
It added games to a season that needed to be rushed through due to a late start.
It oversaturated the Melbourne basketball market and contributed to horrendous crowd numbers in the second half of the season.
It gave the two Melbourne teams a massive advantage, when one of them is already one of the best teams in the league.

Given the new import and roster restrictions and the NBL Cup, this was always an asterisk year no matter who won it.

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TB  
Earlier this year

There is zero * on this season no matter who wins.

Cotton is out so whomever plays Perth get that boost...but injuries happen in sport, move on. If Perth wins this with a team most thought couldn't make the playoffs. No *.

Utd have had a ridiculously favoured run with home games and SFA travel...but it's nothing that isn't expected when the owner of the team owns the league. No *.

SEM similarly have had a dream run of games in Vic but and got a boomer boost mid year, but they have had to deal with the Creek stuff and injuries. No *.

Illawarra, low budget, no fans, will anyone notice if they win...probably only the team they beat. Definitely no *.

If Sydney make it...well...they are owned by Paul Smith and Bogut. Definitely an *.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"exactly how many more games beneficial will United's schedule be compared to most other teams, by the time they've played the last 6 games in a row away from home"

Exactly how many times does it need to be explained that this isn't the issue? They left Victoria ONCE in approximately three months. That is a huge advantage which helped them achieve their 10 or 11 game winning streak. It virtually guaranteed them finishing first well before the season finished, and it's only a well-drilled Perth winning road games that didn't make it a completely forgone conclusion a month before the season ended.

LV, you always whinge about bad refereeing affecting momentum in a game. Why cant you acknowledge the same across an entire season?

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Norton out with a hip injury, really a training session now for the cats

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KET  
Earlier this year

It blocked out a full month of the season in a year where scheduling flexibility was paramount.

- provided a hub environment which the nbl viewed as a big plus for providing certainty that games could go ahead

It added games to a season that needed to be rushed through due to a late start.

- ensured there were a critical number of games should things have taken the turn for the worst

You have the benefit of being just an NBL fan without consideration for sponsors, a continuing league, logistics, and most important of all, risk strategy. Your arguments against doesn't put into consideration those factors.

Loeliger is on record saying part of the Cup was risk mitigation for the uncertainty and it makes sense to provide that kind of certainty via a hub.

It oversaturated the Melbourne basketball market and contributed to horrendous crowd numbers in the second half of the season.

- So Melbourne United/SEM take a financial hit with lower crowd numbers for their home games for the benefit of the NBLs finances given they received $$$ from Vic Gov.

What should we do? Hand the two Vic clubs money to remedy potential financial hit?

It gave the two Melbourne teams a massive advantage, when one of them is already one of the best teams in the league.

- Perth won the cup, how much of an advantage really was it? The crowds were kind of shit, no real atmospheric advantage.

But sure - Is this a thing now where we cry about mechanisms designed to advantage particular clubs?

Can we please start the list of complaining at the marquee mechanisms which let rich clubs sign great players that are out of the financial realm of other clubs despite the league purportedly intended to be "competitive"?

Can we start there? Or is that inconvenient?

Some of us rationalise the marquee rule as being good for the league to bring home great talent, despite being problematic in the “competitive” aspect.

I rationalise NBL Cup as being good for the league when there was no certainty that games could be played or the league even going ahead and they managed to get games and additional finances, even if it meant United and SEM had extra “home games”.

Ironically, Adelaide gets to play a United home game in Adelaide - wonderful result in an otherwise trying time!

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KET  
Earlier this year

LOL TB - appreciated that

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koberulz  
Earlier this year

- provided a hub environment which the nbl viewed as a big plus for providing certainty that games could go ahead
They only very narrowly avoided having to cancel it because of the Melbourne outbreak. Not having the Cup would mean being able to shift games around as needed.

Perth won the cup, how much of an advantage really was it? The crowds were kind of shit, no real atmospheric advantage.
They got to sleep in their own beds for two months, spend time with their families, etc. Not stuff that's necessarily going to manifest immediately, but the season as a whole would have taken much less of an emotional toll on the Melbourne clubs than anyone else.

But sure - Is this a thing now where we cry about mechanisms designed to advantage particular clubs?
Being fair is the entire point of sports...

Can we please start the list of complaining at the marquee mechanisms which let rich clubs sign great players that are out of the financial realm of other clubs despite the league purportedly intended to be "competitive"?
Marquee spots are available equally to all teams.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Just because Adelaide don't recruit well, it doesn't mean they don't spend a lot of money on their roster.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Who ever wins it deserves it,

all teams have had injuries and troubles. Injuries have struck Perth at wrong end of season, if they had been earlier in the season they would not have had such a great start. It allowed Gleeson time to get the system working with the new players. Now Perth depth will come into it, Gleeson played his starters more than all other teams, you get what you sow, it has allowed Perth another finals tilt and still a chance to claim the main prize if there good enough.

No asterisk who ever wins it.

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KET  
Earlier this year

" Being fair is the entire point of sports..."

Being competitive is the entire point of sports, hence why some leagues use salary caps. What “fairness” exists in a draft for AFL? That just rewards bad teams. Why? Because they want to lift bad teams to be competitive.

“ Marquee spots are available equally to all teams.”

Hardly “competitive” if that enables one club to leverage better finances and spend more on players than another.

Providing a mechanism “equally” is meaningless than some clubs couldn't possibly use it. Even you know that was response of yours is bullshit!

“ Just because Adelaide don't recruit well, it doesn't mean they don't spend a lot of money on their roster.”

Adelaide aren’t the only club in the league, nor am I crying poor about Adelaide. I’m on record for saying that despite it being advantageous for rich clubs, which it is, I rationalise it as being good for the league in bringing top talent in. Albeit it’s something that probably can’t continue long term for the sake or competitiveness and sustainability.

Perhaps think about Cairns instead?

The point in all this is it’s all well and good to complain about advantage in a bizarre logistical scenario of a pandemic, and then ignore institutionalised mechanisms providing an advantage, and simply trying to find ways to rationalise it like “available to all clubs” full well knowing exactly what the mechanism does - providing an advantage to those who can afford it.

It’s very hard to take sooking so seriously when it’s laced with hypocrisy and gives the NBL very little room for benefit of doubt on a pandemic all on the basis of being slanted Victorian. The fact that Boomers v Fucking Qatar was used in an argument in all this encapsulates desperation to view the world in a very Rose-tinted way.

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KET  
Earlier this year

To be absolutely clear we are talking about logistical moves by the league made in a pandemic not in a pre-covid environment.

Can't just completely ignore the fact they have to work with state govs, each with varying strict approaches, and you have sponsorship obligations to fulfill and you’ve got finances that have to be considered.

Given the above, there has been so little room for error given to the NBL by posters here, it’s remarkable. Zero benefit of doubt!

Almost as if people are making bold and unabashed criticism without the inside knowledge of the factors and why decisions are made ;)

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Taking all that into consideration, why do you think it made sense for Melbourne to stay at home for two months after the Cup finished?

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KET  
Earlier this year

There's a very easy and obvious answer to that.

Melbourne will end the year with the "same allocated home games" as every club. That’s a clear point to make - there simply weren’t many away games to be had.

Why would they force Melbourne to leave and play extra away games and have less home games? How do you break that to members that the league decides - against logistical sense to deprive members of their home games?

If that means not leaving Melbourne for two months than that’s how it pans out.

The aim is to get through the pandemic as easily as possible, not for the league to go out of their way to push away games onto Vic clubs because the NBL Cup was in Melbourne.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The NBL Cup was in Melbourne because the Vic govt paid for it periodtttt

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KET  
Earlier this year

I'm all for keeping administration in check, but there has been very little benefit of doubt for such a tough scenario, and a whole lot of flat out conspiracies peddled.

If the NBL or LK wanted to give Melbourne United all the advantages in the world to win, pretty sure he could do that with the millions plowed into the NBL instead.

There’s a lot of savvy ideas they’re trying out, there’s a lot of involving stakeholders like Vic Gov which unlocks doors for basketball, there’s a lot of risk factors for covid requiring out of the box planning. There deserves to be a level of benefit of doubt given.

Someone like KR will criticise something in absolute terms without actually being part of the NBL or stakeholders and having no actual understanding why decisions are made.

I just don’t think that’s a fair approach.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Huh? That doesn't answer the question at all. At the point in time when the Cup ended, Melbourne had been home for a month (which is fine, I don't mind the Cup), and the schedule was being delivered piecemeal, for what reason would the powers that be have decided to continue to schedule home games for Melbourne?

They didn't have the foresight of a late season lockdown and there was nothing else going on in the country at the time for the league to say "you know what, we really have no choice but to keep United at home for the next two months" so I don't get what their thinking was.

Why were there not away games to be had? Perth played four of their next five at home after the Cup. Melbourne couldn't have gone there? NZ set up their own home hub in Tassie. Melbourne didn't travel there, in fact the opposite happened.

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Another Anon  
Earlier this year

Given LK is single handedly propping up the league for the moment, I'm willing to let any perceived favoritism slide for this year.

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KET  
Earlier this year

> Melbourne played their allocated 14 home/14 away games
> Can't make Melbourne travel away if they don’t have away games to travel for
> only way is to deprive Melbourne of home games and why would they do that? Why deprive Melbourne members of a game unnecessarily? Why make things harder logistically when the whole aim in a pandemic is to not make life harder logistically than necessary?
> As it turns out, they have to deprive members of a game and travel to Adelaide
> NZ were hubbed in Victoria during the time Melbourne played them - why would they make teams travel out of the state to conduct the game? To make things logistically harder than necessary?

I definitely answered your question, I think you just didn’t like the answer of "they played their allocated home and away games"

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

" Can't make Melbourne travel away if they don't have away games to travel for"

How were there not away games for Melbourne in that two month period? Every other team played away games, why didn't Melbourne?

"only way is to deprive Melbourne of home game"

What are you talking about?

My question is why didn't Melbourne travel for two months. A response of "each team plays an equal amount of home and away games" does not answer that question at all.

Reply #851230 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" why do you think it made sense for Melbourne to stay at home for two months after the Cup finished?"

NBL Cup finished 14th March.

Sydney v Melbourne Qudosbank Arena 19th March

5 days or 2 months? Come on....

V NZ “away” because NZ were hubbed in Vic - already addressed this.

V SEM “away” - irrelevant both Vic

V Cairns in Cairns April 4th

I don't know why it even matters if the club plays their allocated games? Adelaide played a lot away to the end of the season, nobody complained because they had a front loaded season.

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KET  
Earlier this year

Seems like you've convinced yourself that Melbourne didn’t play away for 2 months and that it matters.

I don’t know how you arrived at that, or why it would matter. Melbourne go through that kind of thing most years due to Oz Open like Spurs and their Rodeo trip. Not 2 months perhaps, but that didn’t appear to actually happen in reality anyway!

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Luuuc  
Earlier this year

I always viewed the Cup as kind of a financial insurance policy for the league in a season that had the potential to be a lot more Covid-interrupted than it actually ended up being. To me, the league surviving the season was important enough to cop some hits to parity, and I am fine with putting my personal opinions aside and deferring to LK when it comes to matters of league finances.

So sure, looking back it would have been good not to have the Cup. But it's kind of like regretting ever purchasing car insurance just because you didn't end up in a crash.

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KET  
Earlier this year

Completely agree Luuuc and you've summised as concisely as I ever could.

I do think there are some on here that view LK with the kind of conspiracies that make anti-vaxxors blush.

I’m all for parity and competition, but I’m aware there are complexities and barriers when it comes to Covid.

I think in a precovid postcovid world, a slimmed down NBL Cup tournament elimination style would be perfect in the US alongside NBL x NBA to be able to show off NBL talent to American scouts and GMs and media generally. It would mean more than a traditional preseason cup.

And if they even wanted to be innovative and make sure it’s competitive, could give half a point for every ladder spot ie 1st get 6 points, last place 0.5 points. Gives clubs more reason to try because every point can count come end of NBL season.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

More salt in this thread than the dead sea

Reply #851236 | Report this post


Hopscotch 55  
Earlier this year

The only reason I am not overly salty with the Cup and Melbourne getting additional home games (which I believe they did, even if they weren't official), is that my team (Perth) managed to win the cup despite that, and overall I can't see it as changing outcomes this season over much just because of the way things turned out.

Sure it potentially could have dramatically changed things.. imagine a more marginal United team - it could have pushed them into the finals when they'd otherwise have missed out.

But would it have changed Adelaide's ladder position? NZ? SEM? Cairns?
Not by enough to make a difference.

Maybe it could be argued it cost Perth top spot, but without Cotton at this end of the season against a full strength United? I don't see that changing the end result either.

It should've massively upset the season, it was objectively unfair.. but, just the way things happened to play out by chance, it didn't seem to make much difference in the end.

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D2.0  
Earlier this year

If Cotton doesn't get injured, Perth finish on top and get HCA.
With Magnay improving every game, and the benefit of a 13 man roster, no way Melbourne takes them in a 5 game series. End of Story.

I STILL reckon Perth are a chance, but it will depend on badly MU get fucked by Covid.
If lockdown is over by the GF, and they get upto 3 home games with crowds, then I would say they are unbackable favourites.
If they still couldn't play in Melbourne and had to play in say Sydney, then things get interesting.
Worse-case scenario for MU, the league agrees to play all games in Perth for commercial reasons, and then all bets are off. (Won't happen though.)

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Be grateful we had a very minimal interrupted season, yea Melbourne didn't travel bla bla bla it kept the season going and for me the longer it goes the better.

As a Perth fan I still think they can beat Melbourne if they concentrate on the right people but it is what it is.

Reply #851241 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this year

The Cup was an utterly stupid idea. And we were very lucky it didn't blow up in their face. Imagine if Melbourne had gone into lockdown with all the teams there.

Perth won, but the schedule impacted them severely in following games.
Melbourne teams got a stupendously unfair advantage.
Several teams basically had their seasons ended by the cup.

Reply #851242 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

@D.2
If the dog didn't stop in the middle of the road, it would not get run over. Perth were certainties lmao. Even with Cotton they had a battle royal and no guarantee of winning. Lots of clubs had more injuries than Perth at critical times. The nbl cup was great and if covid had turned the country into the rest world scenario, we would have had a season.

Reply #851244 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Melbourne aren't playing finals in Melbourne.

Reply #851246 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The last fan base that needs sympathy for losing their best player to injury is the Red Army. Perf has won more titles than any other team, they will be fine.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Prediction: United win its poor refs and or flopping. Perth win: dug deep without Cotton... Welcome to Hoops forum

Reply #851259 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"5 days or 2 months? Come on...."

After the Cup, they played in Sydney on the 19th of March then returned home, then didnt leave Victoria until they played in Perth on the 13th of May. 13 straight games in Victoria.

You seem to be unable to clarify your own assertion that there were no away games for them to play during this period.

Reply #851260 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

My mistake, they played in Cairns once. The info I have was previously showing this game to be played in Melbourne also as a Cairns home game.

Reply #851264 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

V Cairns in Cairns April 4th

Reply #851265 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Yes my mistake. It was good to see the league schedule in the only away game available to Melbourne in that two month period though.

Reply #851266 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

LK again manipulating the league for his underground lizard people whilst spreading COVID around the globe...

Reply #851267 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

All I've done is asked why it was done this way as it clearly gave Melbourne a massive momentum-building advantage. The answers I've got so far are, team have to play equal number of home and away games, and there were no away games available for Melbourne during this period.

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Luuuc  
Earlier this year

If Cotton doesn't get injured, Perth finish on top and get HCA.
With Magnay improving every game, and the benefit of a 13 man roster, no way Melbourne takes them in a 5 game series. End of Story.

And what an imaginative story it was.

Reply #851269 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Man, if that's the stuff D2.0 comes up with, I'd hate to think what the original D was like!

Reply #851270 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Had cotton not got injured I think Perth would win the title rather easily but now I think the United will win it

Reply #851271 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

United spanked Perth in Perth last time. You play what's in front of you, no excuses.

Reply #851272 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Looking likely that United are going to spank Perth in Perth again. Magnay a shadow of the player he was before his g league sojourn.

Reply #851276 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Magnay gone to venky free throw shooting clinic.

Reply #851277 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Can someone tell Vickernan if you wear a mask its not a chin nappy. It has to be worn above your nose.

Reply #851278 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Looking likely that United are going to spank Perth in Perth again.

Probably because Perth are missing their starting backcourt.

Reply #851279 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Magnay looks about 15kg heavier in his upper free throw shooting arm

Reply #851280 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

That's and extra $150k that Perth is prepared to pay. ;)

Reply #851281 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Huh?

Reply #851282 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

When was the last time Perth scored 29 in a half?

Reply #851283 | Report this post


Bol  
Earlier this year

Travers playing well at small forward!

Reply #851284 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

How precious are the Wildcats people. Thre frisking floor wipers are wearing full body whires it seems and a mask. What are they afraid of?

Reply #851285 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"Landale hurts them with the treble!" Jeez Louise Liam. Was it a treble cleff?

Reply #851286 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Obvious troll is obvious

Reply #851287 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

So where are the Perf fans? Clearly in the rat hole.

Reply #851288 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Still waiting for KET to explain why there were no away games available for Melbourne to play in during that two month stretch.

Reply #851289 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

So where are the Perf fans?

At the game?

Reply #851290 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Back on topic is good. Stop baiting. Or trolling.

Reply #851291 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

JLA clearly learning from goulding, also getting the call... disgusting

Reply #851292 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

60 could be on the cards for the cats if britt doesn't play too much in the 4th

Reply #851293 | Report this post


Bol  
Earlier this year

Finally Corey Sherville is back! Dont know what else this guy needs to do to get more minutes

Reply #851295 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Is anyone guarding Barlow ?

Reply #851297 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Baba. Game over.

Reply #851298 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

So this is how it feels to suck.

Reply #851299 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

So there has to be an agenda for United to win? I'm waiting....

Reply #851300 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

What?

Reply #851301 | Report this post


Another Anon  
Earlier this year

Commentary trying to talk this result up as a season changing event :)

Reply #851302 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"So this is how it feels to suck." Yep.

Reply #851304 | Report this post


TB  
Earlier this year

Well done Melbourne, you had the gifted run with travel but you still had to win the games. Now the real season starts.

Reply #851305 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I love how the insecure and inadequate anti Perth people try and talk trash. It's equal parts sad and hilarious.

Reply #851306 | Report this post


Bol  
Earlier this year

Doesn't matter which floor this MU team ends up playing finals just hand them the trophy now. Speaking of not fair they have so many weapons and knock down shooters its ridiculous!

Reply #851309 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

This was better than par for Perth tonight. No starting back court. I'd say Norton and cotton are worth 10pts each on offence (not literally). You had white and Britt operate the point, until they thought actually let's give our 19 year old starting pf and sf the gig, he looked good too. Mooney couldn't get it going, see the two most important pieces of the offence missing, magnay still acclimating and Blanchfield and steindl not showing united a single counter to the usual. Under 10 would have been a great result, sub 20 is a good result.

Reply #851311 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

No excuses, everyone has injuries, most side lost main players for big parts of the season. Even kings didn't make excuses last year when Bogut could hardly get out bed for back end of season due to back injuries or losing main players this season. Perth take it on the chin.

Reply #851312 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"I love how the insecure and inadequate Perth people are so insecure when they suck" Corrected..

Reply #851313 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Mooney with 5 points ain't getting you the win

Reply #851314 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

After watching that, I'm hoping it wasn't a Grand Final preview

Come on SEM, win these last 2 then knock Perth out!

Reply #851315 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I'd rather SEM lose both and let Illawarra knockout Perth.

Reply #851316 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Either way, I think United vs SEM has potential to be a good series, so I'd rather see that in best of 5

For whatever reason Illawarra has struggled vs Perth, so I wouldn't be surprised if Perth defeats Illawarra even without Cotton

No one wants to see 3 games like tonight in a GF, let's be honest. Norton might help make it a bit closer but he wouldn't get Perth over the line

Reply #851317 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

LV the fact you have said "Norton might help make it closer" really tells us how little you understand of the game. A team missing their primary offensive weapon then loses their best defender and the only other player that initiates all their offence and gets them into the right sets at the right time.

Mooney had no cotton and no Norton, like he's not an iso stud type player.

Also Perth never show all their counters in the regular season. United did an excellent job of keeping Clint and Blanchfield of the 3pt line, I can't see Perth's offence not having any counters to that in the playoffs, I suspect they just did not show it tonight, as they have in the past.

Reply #851318 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Perth is a very very very ordinary team without Cotton to the surprise of no one

Reply #851319 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

[LV the fact you have said "Norton might help make it closer" really tells us how little you understand of the game. ]

Tonight was a scrappy, low scoring affair where one team's only chance of winning was if the other team degenerates into iso ball or has a horrific shooting night

That would be the same equation with Norton, the only difference being the other team slightly more likely to play themselves out of it

I repeat- no one wants to see a GF series like that

[I can't see Perth's offence not having any counters to that in the playoffs, I suspect they just did not show it tonight, as they have in the past.]

Perth's offense is struggling without Cotton, they've not scored more than 81 points since he went down. Against United's Defense, what exactly are they going to do differently that would work? Even maestro Trev can't pull a rabbit out of a hat

Reply #851320 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Never said they would win, simply said norton makes them much better.

What will they do differently? Actually counter the overplay keeping clint and Blanchfield of the three, probs a start.

I'm not convinced united doesn't sweep sem, they are hardly consistent.

Reply #851321 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this year

I'm honestly curious:
Do people from Melbourne really not understand how pathetic they sound? Crowing about winning a meaningless dead rubber, in which the opposition was without it's starting guards, and gave the bench extended minutes??

Normally I would concede that a win is a win, but in this case it's not even that.

And it's not as though we didn't already know this go into the game.
sure if Norton and cotton weren't injured, and top spot was still up for grabs, this would have been an absolute cracker of a game.
and had Melbourne won, their fans would be justified in partying like it was 1993.

Anyway, question now becomes; can anyone challenge them for the championship?

Reply #851322 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

If United stays healthy, there's only one team who could beat them.

Perth's system is incredible but there comes a time with any team and any system when the talent gap is simply too big to overcome. Even the Spurs eventually missed the playoffs after 22 straight years

But there's one team who doesn't have a massive talent deficit vs United

SEM

Reply #851323 | Report this post


Kb_24  
Earlier this year

Without cotton Perth looks like Cairns team...

Reply #851325 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

SEM looked like Cairns NBL1 North side in the 2nd half v Brisbane. Put the pipe down LV

Reply #851329 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Name any team in the league that is without its starting backcourt and still comes within 12 of Melbourne.

Reply #851330 | Report this post


Bol  
Earlier this year

Within 12 points but without breaking a sweat.

Playing with the entire bench on the floor at times and still outplaying a determined wildcats team. Give credit where its due.

Reply #851331 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

SEM was missing about 4 players and beat Melbourne

But Melbourne was missing a couple themselves

This is what I've pointed out before, we're comparing apples and oranges, SEM has had a constant stream of injuries all year and even now missing Gliddon plus Pineau out for the year. I'd love to see what SEM could do with their full lineup for an extended stretch

United Also constant injuries.

Perth has been very healthy until Cotton went down

Reply #851332 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" Still waiting for KET to explain why there were no away games available for Melbourne to play in during that two month stretch."

Thought you had admitted you were wrong already.

Please produce dates of two month stretch post cup.

(I did check, and there is no 2 month stint post cup).

Also please explain why logistics in covid is not a satisfactory answer.

Please provide explanation as to why you, an outsider has a satisfactory answer to the above without any inside knowledge as to the factors at play when making fixturing decisions.

Please explain why an extended period at home (what actually happened post cup) is unusual when Melbourne do that most years as a result of Australian Open loading of games.

Please explain why you aren't complaining about Adelaide who played the first month or so at home with front loaded games.

Then finally, get out of your little conspiracy bubble and take that tin foil hat off

Reply #851334 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Given your repeated carry on and claim despite being told otherwise - the dates should reflect two months.

Not one, not one and a half. Not "April 4th to may 18th".

Two months. Post Cup. That's what you have repeated and capitalised for emphasis.

Backup your claim or backdown.

Reply #851336 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

You were the one who said there is a perfectly simple explanation to the question, and that was that all teams must play an equal amount of home and away games (which doesn't answer the question at all) and that there were no away games available for Melbourne to play. I'm asking for your rationale behind those responses. You're simply unable to provide anything to support your perfectly simple explanation so I'm not sure why you're vehemently opposing the question I've asked.

Re:Adelaide's front loaded home schedule. From memory, there were various breakouts and lockdowns at the start of the season and the NBL managed that as best they could which is great. Immediately after the Cup, there were none.

Reply #851337 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"Two months. Post Cup. That's what you have repeated and capitalised for emphasis."

Seriously? You think that one small mistake invalidates the entire question?

Fair enough then, let me change the question. In a two month period, United left Victoria once to play in Cairns. Assuming your previous response still stands, in that no away games were available, can you explain how you came to this conclusion when every other team was travelling freely around the country to play away games?

You're not stupid, you know exactly what I'm asking, but you keep on deflecting from having to detail your supposed simple explanation.

Reply #851338 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Troll alert!

Troll alert!

Reply #851339 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Asking a question, getting a rubbish answer, then asking for a proper explanation is trolling?

I notice you haven't responded to my question yesterday either LV. Was it too troll-y for you too?

Reply #851340 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

I'm here to talk about basketball

Nonsensical conspiracies don't deserve replies

Reply #851341 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

My question to you did not suggest a conspiracy in anyway at all. It was a question about momentum. If that's too much for you, I know who the troll is.

Reply #851342 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

*time stamps fouls called against Mitch McCarron*

I dOnT dEaL iN cOnSpeRaCEeS!!!

Reply #851343 | Report this post


TB  
Earlier this year

Melbourne did what they needed to win a sew up top spot, no more no less.

Perth played a lot of young guys and different combinations and didn't get blown out, no more no less.

Neither team gave anything away so I read nothing into this game.

LV you need to ease up on the injury crap, jack white went out mid season and Utd has had a chance to adjust for his loss. Perth only in the last week have had to start looking at life without Cotton. Injuries happen in sport but the impact of losing a good defender mid season compared to an MVP on the eave of the finals...come on mate, your smarter then that.

Reply #851344 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

LV only ever looks at things through a pro-Melb/anti-Perth lens. His attempt at critical thinking doesn't go beyond that.

Reply #851345 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Also Perth played 3 dps, Wani who has played like a Dp and started kevin white. United the deepest team in the league played their bench for some. Let's just let that sink in. FYI sem has not had to go that deep and when they did dig they discovered leyafa and Adnam is their back up pg.

Reply #851346 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Not to mention, I've answered your "question" about momentum before on this forum, if not multiple times

Yet you keep raising it

Reply #851347 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I've never seen such a response. Do you mind repeating it within the context of the question I asked?

Reply #851348 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Lv, Dane pineau is probably not as big an out as one B Cotton. There is no out as significant. It will take adjustment, yet you cite a game with a starting back court missing to rule out the one team that still truly worries you

Reply #851350 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

If I was Dean Vickerman, I'd prefer a momentum building, home game schedule over the BACK END of the season than over the first half

Even before covid hit, United was due for a busy travel schedule with 5 road games over the last 3 weeks of the season, including 2 trips to Perth (ie the hardest away game, plus the longest flight)

Its just as logical to argue that United's schedule was set up to reduce their chances of having "momentum" heading into the playoffs, as it is to suggest the schedule was set up to help them build early momentum

And I'm sure, if United was only leaving Melbourne once in the last 6 weeks of the season (instead of once in 6 weeks from late march to early May) you'd be right here arguing the schedule was rigged to help them build "momentum" into the playoffs

Reply #851351 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

You didn't answer why logistics isn’t a perfectly reasonable explanation.

You’re saying there wasn’t an explanation, why isn’t that a good one?

What inside knowledge do you have to judge.

Why can’t logistics during covid era be reasonable?

Why was Adelaides front loaded schedule where lockdown was minimal and outbreak was minimal an excuse but Melbourne’s isn’t?

The answer was there you just ignored it.

Why can’t venue booking, travel, gov borders be reasonable?

Reply #851352 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Earlier this year

SEM look good when they are allowed to play loose and confident and as a team. They look terrible under tight defence or when the shots aren't dropping, which leads them into going iso mode which doesn’t suit them so much.

Same with United.

Much as I’d love a United V SEM final, I can see Perth extending their GF streak by beating United at the end, even without MVP Cotton.

Reply #851353 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Eg look at Richmond in 2019, started disastrously at 7-6 their season looked in peril. But they fired off 9 straight wins heading into the finals before dominating the finals and winning the flag. helped by building momentum their last 7 straight home and away games at the MCG.

That's a more helpful fixture than getting mid season home games. You want momentum heading into playoffs. That's when you want confidence to build towards peak form

Reply #851354 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

And they did play away games just against SEM and NZ.

It's how it falls. Why would the NBL go out of their way just to satisfy some Perth fans’ conspiracy?

Makes zero sense.

Reply #851355 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

12 straight Richmond won in 2019, including finals. 10 of them at MCG, including the last 7 straight home and away

And including the prelim at the MCG, an "away prelim" against Geelong cos the AFL plays all Melbourne finals at the G

Now that's a helpful fixture.

Reply #851357 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Sorry take that back, Richmond earned the home prelim as Geelong lost in the qualifying final

But still, the overarching point about end season momentum being more valuable than early or mid season momentum, stands

Reply #851358 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" Seriously? You think that one small mistake invalidates the entire question? “

It does because you're peddling that 2 months is inherently unreasonable. It was less, it was actually closer to what usually occurs due to aus open situation each year. Add in the obviousness of covid related aspects of logistics which Adelaide also had, and the period becomes inherently justifiable. Especially when they did play away games vNZ and vSEM and they did play all their allocated games.

NBL would be having to go out of their way to make Melbourne travel which would just be silly. There is nothing inherently unreasonable just because you didn’t like it.


“You're not stupid, you know exactly what I'm asking, but you keep on deflecting from having to detail your supposed simple explanation"

I answered with 1) logistics 2) they did play away v NZ and SEM and 3) it’s not uncommon in non Covid seasons why is it an issue now.

Very obvious answers that you simply don’t like so you choose to ignore them.

Reply #851359 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Lv seen as if Melbourne to Perth is the longest trip maybe you could put a little more respect on Perth considering their travel schedule this season, 6 in 12 or something at one point, across country multiple times in that. You always seem happy to make excuses for some but not accept the same excuse for others. Injuries is another.

Reply #851360 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Why don't you flick Jeremy an email so they can give the logistics answer?

If you keep asking the same question the same answer will apply. Logistics logistics logistics.

Do you know any better to judge? I doubt it.

Give them a semblance of benefit of the doubt or go join an anti-vaxxor March or some other conspiracy of your choosing

Reply #851361 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Adelaide could have played anywhere bar NSW when their games were front loaded. How did they escape criticism?

If that was Melbourne - would we be here fighting about it instead?

Where's the consistency?

Why can’t the NBL be given benefit of doubt? Nobody had actually answered that. During a Covid pandemic why can’t they be given a bit of breathing space to navigate a pandemic?

Reply #851363 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"it's not uncommon in non Covid seasons why is it an issue now."

It is not common for United to play 12 out of 13 games in Victoria in a non covid season. I understand the need to front and back load schedules based on arena availability due to tennis but this wasn't the case here at all.

"logistics"

Yes you tried to explain the logistics of the situation by saying there were no away games available. I am still waiting for you to elaborate on that because at the time, every other team (except NZ) was playing a reasonable mix of home and away games ie limited covid impact. It really shouldnt be that hard for you to explain what you meant.

Reply #851364 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"NBL would be having to go out of their way to make Melbourne travel"

Why? Every other team travelled in the same period. You previously said no away games were available for Melbourne, now you're saying it would take extra effort to find away games.

I am asking you to explain why it was so difficult to find Melbourne some away games while they managed to find away games for every other club.

Reply #851365 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"Its just as logical to argue that United's schedule was set up to reduce their chances of having "momentum" heading into the playoffs, as it is to suggest the schedule was set up to help them build early momentum "

To relate the point I made yesterday, you've never said that in-game momentum (impacted my referees) is only measured in the fourth quarter. You've consistently bitched over the years that a couple of bad calls against your team at any stage in the game is the reason they lost due to momentum.

My point is, having a two month spell at home (minus one away game) is momentum building in a way the league have never seen before so do you acknowledge that the period in question has provided Melbourne with an unprecedented advantage?

Reply #851366 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

One more thing to add. Do you realise that if this current Victorian covid outbreak didn't occur, United were only scheduled to play 10 away games (not counting local derbys or Cup games) over the entire season?

Reply #851367 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

LV is really up and about lately. This Cotton injury has got him hyped up for that easy title.

Reply #851368 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

They did play away games though - just not the ones you clearly want. SEM and NZ were away games. Bookended by Sydney, Cairns, Illawarra in your two month period.

That's really not as bad as you make it sound. Your issue is NBL should have made them physically leave the state more.

Well when you have a second Vic club you’re gonna play away games in Victoria. When you hub NZ in Vic you’re gonna play them in Vic.

Whose to say it was logistically easy to move latter away games just to satisfy some Perth fans conspiracy?

When you’re trying to make life easy as possible with fixture management, you’re not gonna make decisions just to satisfy some Perth random.

You still haven’t responded re Adelaide. Adelaide had the same thing. Why aren’t you complaining about that?

Because it’s inconvenient to your narrative?

Why weren’t Adelaide forced to play more away games earlier?

Is it possible covid logistics is the answer? Or would that be a problem with Melbourne having the same situation?

Be honest with yourself, Adelaide had the most favourable circumstance of any team, Cup aside I guess.

They’re even playing Melbourne in Adelaide. Go figure. Where’s the complaint?

Reply #851371 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"You still haven't responded re Adelaide. Adelaide had the same thing. Why aren’t you complaining about that?

Because it’s inconvenient to your narrative?"

Yes I have

Reply #851372 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

14 -2 SEM -2 NZ

Yeah, what's the issue?

Maybe your state should have paid up to have NZ at home? Or for the Cup?

Vic Gov did! Then Tassie paid up so then they got the kiwis.

Money and stadiums talk :)

Reply #851373 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" Yes I have"

Your response was there were lockdowns when there wasn't.

Only state with issues at the time was NSW.

Why couldn’t they have played Perth in Perth? Or Melbourne in Melbourne?

Reply #851374 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Come on, I'm in Adelaide fan, I’m willing to hold my club to the spotlight like everyone else’s.

Where’s the endless complaining about it? Why does Adelaide get an easy pass? Is it because they’re shit?

Reply #851375 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"is it possible covid logistics is the answer? Or would that be a problem with Melbourne having the same situation?"

Yes I've already said that covid logistics at the time of the start of the season meant the league had to adapt, and the result of that was that Adelaide was a safe place to play, hence their front loaded schedule. Likewise, Perth's home games at the time were rescheduled to other states. I'm fine with all that.

Immediately after the Cup there were no similar covid logistical issues which would have prevented united leaving Victoria, or any other team travelling around the country. You have argued that there were no away games available to them during this period but are yet to explain why. You simply can't. You thought it sounded good when you first said it but it's clear that you pulled that out of your arse.

Once and for all, can you explain what you meant when you said there were no available away games for United in the two months period directly after the Cup?

Reply #851376 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"Your response was there were lockdowns when there wasn't.

Only state with issues at the time was NSW."

Incorrect. Perth also went into lockdown at the end of January, and prior to that some games were postponed due as a precaution and relocated to Victoria

I cent recall what the original schedule was for all teams but if there was a covid-impacted time period, it would make sense to adjust the schedule and play in the safer states.

Reply #851377 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

KET, it's pretty clear that instead of comprehending and understanding the issue beig raised, you've decided it's just a Perth fan whinge so you've automatically and deliberately disagreed with anything that's been said, while inventing your own nonsensical arguments as to why the decision making was valid. I don't know if you're related to LV but he'd be super proud of you for decided on an outcome then working backwards to make your argument fit.

Reply #851378 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Lot of sulking by Perth fans on here, the season not even over. What is it going to be like if they don't win it.

Reply #851381 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

At the end of the Cup, Perth were second on the ladder despite having played 11 consecutive away games. They gained 1st spot and held it for three rounds while playing at home.

Meanwhile, Melbourne dropped to second after Perth overtook them but due to their "logistical" home game stretch and Perth dropping a couple of games, they overtook them and have stayed in 1st ever since.

A deeper dive on this period also shows something else beneficial to United. In the period between the Sydney away game post-Cup, and the time they met Perth in Perth, they played 8 games with a 4 day break between games. In that same span, Perth played 6.

So leaving Victoria once, having more rest than other teams across a two month period, and finding themselves in an unattainable top spot since round 16 has clearly had no impact on the final standing so let's just put it down to logistics!

Reply #851382 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

[finding themselves in an unattainable top spot since round 16]

Except top spot was attainable

Perth had 2 late season home games against United.... and got beaten twice.

United also went on the road to Illawarra a fortnight ago and won. Which Perth failed to do the following week

Reply #851383 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Plus of course any other team could have got top spot. If they were good enough

Reply #851385 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Without their MVP. Such a stupid argument LV

Reply #851391 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Yes they got beaten by United without their starting backcourt.

Reply #851393 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Earlier this year

(and their starting centre, who has been injured for the entire season)

Reply #851394 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" Immediately after the Cup there were no similar covid logistical issues which would have prevented united leaving Victoria,"

How could you possibly know that? How could you possibly know how the logistical factors lay?

What on earth makes you think it's easy or convenient to shift plans on a whim?

You’re determined to not give any benefit of doubt to concepts of planning as if they can so easily change everything week to week.

It’s a staggeringly tough thing to do which you refuse to acknowledge.

It’s easy to bitch when you’re not the one making decisions.

Reply #851395 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"How could you possibly know that? How could you possibly know how the logistical factors lay?

What on earth makes you think it's easy or convenient to shift plans on a whim"

Are you serious? You have praised the league for keeping things ticking along as best they can (expect the unexpected) and I join you in commending them in being able to make changes on the fly eg the start of the season, and with the recent Melbourne lockdown. But that has nothing to do with a decision made in mid-March to keep one team at home while the rest of the teams freely travelled. As you keep saying, no away games were available for Melbourne, yet you still cannot answer why away games were available for all other teams..

Reply #851396 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

We aren't going to get anywhere with this clearly.

We might well put a fork in it.

Reply #851401 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I agree. You aren't able to support your original claim so there is no point continuing it.

Reply #851403 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Ok mate, if you feel you need the last word.

Reply #851405 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Regardless of the crying between you two if you remove the Cup (Government funded, QLD were the only other bidder and Vic out bid them considerably) United have had the same amount of home games and away games as every other team. In the end 2 less due to playing home games away. Every year with the tennis their fixture is either front or back ended. Get over it.

Reply #851407 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

Adelaide had a bunch of home games because NSW was in lockdown and WA was requiring 14 days quarantine, so teams could serve the first week in SA and play in Adelaide, then serve eye second week in WA and play Perth.

Reply #851412 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

This is untrue. They had an away game against NZ in Bendigo.

Reply #851413 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Except when Trist caught up with his Mrs and put the whole team into Q and they didn't travel to Perth after playing in Adelaide.

Reply #851418 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Why the constant whining about United then, and not SEM, who had one quick 6 day road trip in the 7 week period between April 2 and May 21, and were otherwise in Melbourne during that time?

That was a momentum promoting stretch, was it not?

Reply #851509 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

(And one game in Cairns on April 25, followed by 5 straight games in Melbourne)

Reply #851510 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

In fact SEM did not leave Melbourne in all of February and March

They played in Perth on Jan 29 and didn't travel again until April 1 in Wollongong

Reply #851512 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

(Moved this from the other thread. Anon suggested I misunderstood the argument when I complained about these conspiracies about United)

So why the complaints about United's "momentum building" fixture but no complaints about SEM who didn't travel for 9 weeks, or Adelaide who started with 7 straight home games?

Reply #851514 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"In fact SEM did not leave Melbourne in all of February and March

They played in Perth on Jan 29 and didn't travel again until April 1 in Wollongong"

Why are you bringing the Cup into the discussion?

Reply #851516 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Wasn't the criticism the lack of spread of travel away games? Where the clustering created momentum opportunities?

(With understanding they play more in Vic due to NZ sitch and Cup and their being two Vic clubs)

For Melbourne why didn’t they take some of the latter travel and move it forward during that April period;

For SEM knowing they also played the Cup why didn’t they bring in travel games earlier;

For Adelaide why didn’t they play a few games in Qld earlier than they did.

All three seem relevant to argue if that’s the basis for argument. But the focus has only really been on one team.

The response was logistics which wasn’t accepted, which I think if we ought to be more generous in giving benefit of doubt to the NBL but there are people here who clearly don’t believe so.

Reply #851523 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"The response was logistics which wasn't accepted"

The response was there were no available away games for United to play in the previously mentioned period which is simply untrue. Still waiting for an explanation for that.

The NZ situation is obviously a logistical factor however during the period they set up a home base in Tassie, they actually travelled up to Melbourne to play United twice in Melbourne. Surely from a logistical POV, you'd send Melbourne down to Tassie for the sake of, you know, taking a consistent approach of making every team play away games during the same period of time.

Reply #851525 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

I love it how the "perfect world" scenarios apply to United. Like it should be this perfect world where every team does every single thing exactly the same, even though we're dealing with a pandemic influenced rolling fixture, plus all the usual logistics

Yet the same idealism isn't applied to SEM. Why couldn't the NBL give SEM more away games in early Feb- when they knew there was about to be a month straight of basketball in Victoria?

Reply #851528 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"Why couldn't the NBL give SEM more away games in early Feb- when they knew there was about to be a month straight of basketball in Victoria?"

Or, and hopefully you can understand this question because this is the crux of the discussion, why couldn't the NBL give United more away games during the two month period straight after the Cup considering they'd just played a month straight of basketball in Melbourne?

Reply #851530 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

SEM were away all of January

Reply #851532 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" The response was there were no available away games for United to play in the previously mentioned period which is simply untrue. Still waiting for an explanation for that."

But there was a response, logistics. How do know for certain that agreements with gov, venues, financial risks all meant that away games could be moved forward in a realistic way?

Why are you so certain that can't be a reasonable answer? What inside knowledge do you have otherwise?

Why can’t in the balance of risk and complexity it be a perfectly valid answer?

The answer of logistics and your refusal to accept being not as generous as I am in a pandemic where I’m content to give benefit of doubt and you’re not seems to be a very fair summary.

LV is right, you’re treating the Melbourne circumstance with a “perfect world” expectation and I just don’t think that’s reasonable and I think it borders on conspiracy.

Reply #851533 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

[Or, and hopefully you can understand this question because this is the crux of the discussion, why couldn't the NBL give United more away games during the two month period straight after the Cup considering they'd just played a month straight of basketball in Melbourne?]

And my question is why all the complaints about one situation on this forum and not the other?

And why no recognition that United's schedule actually made it inherently more difficult to develop winning momentum on the all-important run into the playoffs?

Just be consistent. That's all.

Reply #851534 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

And it damn well answers your question too.

And you ought to have shone the spotlight on Adelaide more if you weren't so unashamedly bias against Melbourne in your approach.

I hate Melbourne United but Jesus fucking Christ I’m not a conspiracy theorist. There’s a limit to insanity.

Reply #851535 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

How do you know with certainty that away games weren't available to Melbourne? That was your comment, plain and simple. You're proposing scenarios based on your assumptions and I've responded with comments where I don't agree with your assumptions and logistical analysis. You are speaking as if you have the answers, it's not for me to provide evidence to disprove for supposed factual statements.

All the while, LV is ignoring the comment regarding momentum, which he loves bringing up if United lose (or Perth win) and is now referring to other teams "advantages" as a way of avoiding answering the question. If that's the side you choose to take, good for you.

Reply #851539 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"And you ought to have shone the spotlight on Adelaide more if you weren't so unashamedly bias against Melbourne in your approach"

I've responded to the Adelaide situation multiple times. The commencement of the season was directly impacted by lockdowns and border closures. If that resulted in one club have a front loaded schedule, so be it,

The weeks straight after the Cup were not impacted in the same way so the comparison is irrelevant.

Reply #851540 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"
And my question is why all the complaints about one situation on this forum and not the other?"

Your response to a question about United being gifted an unprecedented favourable draw at a particular time in the season is that I should be complaining about other incomparable things?

Reply #851541 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"so unashamedly bias"

It's you that is bringing bias into the discussion. You've decided that a Perth fan raising a point means you must automatically disagree with it, no matter how illogical you sound.

Reply #851542 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" You're proposing scenarios based on your assumptions and I've responded with comments where I don't agree with your assumptions and logistical analysis. You are speaking as if you have the answers"

No mate, you're not reading my answer but at least you’re approaching the point.

My response was clear - logistical factors is something we couldn’t understand unless we were there part of it all so therefore benefit of the doubt ought to apply in a pandemic world.

Your response was to try to analyse why the logistics didn’t make sense which is why I said you didn’t accept my response of logistics and benefit of the doubt.

That leads me to...

“ I've responded to the Adelaide situation multiple times. The commencement of the season was directly impacted by lockdowns and border closures.”

How could you possibly know the flow on effects of things to say it was an issue for AdeIaide but not Melbourne? I would argue logistics affected the NBL before the season began inherent in covid existing. To confine it, in my argument, is utterly ridiculous.

You also really lacked clarity in your argument because “adding away games” could be easily interpreted as “creating additional away games” not moving them forward which leads me to the point you just did that here...

“ The NZ situation is obviously a logistical factor however during the period they set up a home base in Tassie, they actually travelled up to Melbourne to play United twice in Melbourne. Surely from a logistical POV, you'd send Melbourne down to Tassie for the sake of, you know, taking a consistent approach of making every team play away games during the same period of time.”

The NBL were clear that the Tassie situation was for post-Easter, they did travel to Melbourne twice post Easter.

They were Melbourne home games. If you’re turning them into away games, you’re depriving Melbourne members of two home games, why would the NBL do that just to satisfy some conspiracy?

That was the argument levelled earlier as well, that’s how I definitely initially interpreted your argument initially because you weren’t being clear about “moving forward” I had to clarify that for you.

It certainly didn’t help in clarity for you to also peddle “two months” so repeatedly and emphatically after when it had already been dispelled. It just made things messier.

Then what you’re left with, is ~6 weeks, games v NZ in Vic instead of travelled, games v SEM instead of travelled, and Aus Open affected fixturing. Suddenly, that’s not so unreasonable or unlikely. Add in other covid onflow and it’s rather in controversial, you know, for most people.

That is, who provide a semblance of benefit of doubt.

Reply #851543 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

[All the while, LV is ignoring the comment regarding momentum, which he loves bringing up if United lose (or Perth win) and is now referring to other teams "advantages" as a way of avoiding answering the question. ]

Either the NBL gifted SEM, MU and ADL a schedule that offered opportunity for momentum, or they offered none of them that opportunity

One or the other, take your pick.

Secondly, if United's schedule is in fact a "momentum" building schedule through the middle stages, then it's also a momentum reducing schedule heading into the playoffs.

It cannot be true that United had a momentum building schedule BECAUSE of all the home games, but having heaps of travel on the eve of playoffs isn't a bad thing

Again take your pick. Use consistent logic.

Reply #851544 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Rather uncontroversial*

Reply #851545 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" consistent approach of making every team play away games during the same period of time"

I don't think that’s the approach though, and it has never been for Melbourne due to Oz Open.

The approach is to fit the same number of H/A games in the season.

Teams have loaded schedules, that has always been the case.

As bad as 6 weeks? Well, if you’re hubbing NZ and there’s another Vic team, in a pandemic, how unlikely really is that?

Unprecedented times delivers unprecedented stuff.

Reply #851547 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"You also really lacked clarity in your argument because "adding away games" could be easily interpreted as “creating additional away games” not moving them forward "

Fucking LOL!!!

Reply #851548 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"Either the NBL gifted SEM, MU and ADL a schedule that offered opportunity for momentum, or they offered none of them that opportunity

One or the other, take your pick"

The comparison of Melbourne to Adelaide has already been addressed repeatedly.

Reply #851549 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" Fucking LOL!!!"

You literally just argued that saying Melbourne should have gone to tassie for their away games

Reply #851550 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

At the end of the day, either you're willing to go "I don’t understand the factors that had to be considered so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt" or you aren’t.

That’s the crux of my argument.

If you aren’t, my answer is “you don’t know the reasoning so it’s a shame you won’t give benefit of the doubt”

I won’t ask why you won’t give benefit of the doubt, because I fear the answer is some bullshit LK Melbourne conspiracy

Reply #851551 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

And nobody sane here will argue with someone who's a conspiracy theorist.

Reply #851552 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

"some bullshit LK Melbourne conspiracy"

What's Hoops.com.au here for anyway!?

Reply #851554 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year


"You literally just argued that saying Melbourne should have gone to tassie for their away games"

And? Don't you think it would have made sense considering the proximity, and in the spirit of keeping the competition even, that Melbourne hosting NZ could have been switched around?

Reply #851555 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"What's Hoops.com.au here for anyway!?"

Time stamping Mitch McCarron fouls and providing flimsy evidence of home cooking at Perth Arena?

Reply #851556 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

KET, it's quite amazing that you've gone from matter-of-factly stating it was impossible to send United on a road trip, to suddenly saying you don't know why but are prepared to give the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps if you'd said the second part first you could have saved yourself a whole lot of embarrassment.

Reply #851557 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

If you do that, you either 1) deprive members of two games or 2) deprive two other games of Melbourne playing away.

Every team will have played their allocated H/A games. Doing that would shift that unnecessarily.

Hence the answer, no more away games to be added - because that would be depriving Melbourne members unnecessarily or some other club unnecessarily.

Also makes zero sense. That's just dumb.

Reply #851559 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" stating it was impossible to send United on a road trip, "

Didn't say that. That’s a bullshit response.

Reply #851560 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

I said realistically, with factors to be considered.

Ie, not going out of their way to make life as hard as possible for themselves to satisfy some random Perth fan.

That's a drastic difference.

Reply #851562 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

You know you're taking the piss when your answer is "let’s deprive a team of their home games unnecessarily".

Not financially smart, not logistically smart. It’s straight up unashamed anti-Melbourne bias that’s beyond comical.

Reply #851564 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"If you do that, you either 1) deprive members of two games or 2) deprive two other games of Melbourne playing away.

Every team will have played their allocated H/A games. Doing that would shift that unnecessarily."

We've just established that isn't my point and never has been. Now you're bringing it back up as I wanted Melbourne to be unfairly disadvantaged? FFS

Reply #851565 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"Didn't say that. That's a bullshit response."

You actually did. You said there were no away ganes available to Melbourne during the window I'm talking about.

Reply #851566 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"You know you're taking the piss when your answer is "let's deprive a team of their home games unnecessarily"."

Agreed. Thankfully I haven't said anything close to that.

Reply #851567 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" that Melbourne hosting NZ could have been switched around?"

Let me know how that would be achieved keeping in mind NZ in Tas was after the Mel v NZ Bendigo games and therefore they've played their away games to NZ already.

Reply #851568 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

There was only one game in Bendigo and the obvious answer is you don't call it a NZ home game, and instead send Melbourne down to Tassie to play proper away games during their Tassie hub.

Correct me if I'm wrong but all THREE of the Melb NZ games were played in Victoria this season (one in Bendigo) so there was opportunity for Melbourne to not only play them outside of Melbourne, but also play the second away game.

Thanks for highlighting the inconsistency and advantage I've been talking about.

Reply #851577 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

You can't post-fact call it a Melbourne home game, then you’re depriving the Melbourne members of a game.

Same thing, unnecessarily depriving a member base of a game.

Reply #851578 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I didn't say to do it after the fact. Why call it a Melbourne away game to begin with? Did any other club get "away" games within their home state this season?

But what about the missing second away game? That couldn't have been played in Tassie, instead of sending the Breakers back up to Melbourne during that same hub period?

Reply #851579 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" but also play the second away game."

We already know you're not happy to accept that you don’t know the logistics planning finances and give benefit of doubt.

It’s so easy to say “they should have done this this and this” without any consequences of achieving it.

No benefit of the doubt. Lots of talk, no responsibility, very easy to judge.

From the get go the fixtures were largely set with timing of games and stadia location moved around based on circumstance.

So how does “change the team” work? That’s a change in approach.

Easy? Fuck no.

So why would they do it just to satisfy some Perth randoms criticism? Why not make the most logistically easy move for them?

Reply #851581 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

AFAIK they never switched teams around, they moved games forward or delayed games or moved the game to a different stadium.

They didn't go "let’s give an extra NZ game and take away somewhere else".

Because suddenly they’re moving a whole lot of things around.

Which is the point. Make life easier in a pandemic not harder.

Reply #851582 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" Why call it a Melbourne away game to begin with? Did any other club get "away" games within their home state this season?"

Yes, Adelaide today. Obviously. Against Melbourne.

Come on.

Reply #851584 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

And Cairns were going to until Qld gov nixed that possibility.

So, it's a consistent approach one would suggest.

Reply #851589 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Which is a direct impact of a current covid situation.

Reply #851590 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

NZ hubbed in Vic paid by Vic gov isn't?

They’re there because of Covid.

Why didn’t Melbourne play Adelaide in any state other than SA?

Why when they originally fixtured did they have Melbourne v Cairns in any state other than Qld?

Why move directly to the away teams home?

Maybe it’s to have a semblance of crowd and extra money?

Why move an original fixture from Bendigo to Tasmania and delay in order to be in Tasmania?

How is that efficient and financially smart when you’re trying to make life easy in a pandemic?

Reply #851594 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

I would argue you're pissed about Melbourne because you feel it affects your team but not about Adelaide because Adelaide are shit.

And Melbourne fans don’t complain about today instead of playing at a neutral stadium because the result will make no difference.

Both times NBL probably did what made logistical and financial sense.

And you have to do some mental gymnastics to not see the clear inconsistent reaction between Melbourne’s advantages and Adelaides. Either be pissed at both or cop both as a result of Covid IMO

Reply #851597 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I don't know how many times I have to say the same thing. The Adelaide situations are perfectly understandable because at the times they've been scheduled to stay at home, there were current covid outbreaks around the country so they were considered safe a destination. Similar to both Melbourne recently relocating to QLD.

The two months post-Cup had minimal outbreak disruptions yet the scheduling was done as if Melbourne, in your words, had no away ganes available to them at the time.

Reply #851601 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Why couldn't they play today in a different state? Why make Melbourne play in Adelaide for a home game and not a neutral place?

Why doesn’t that aggravate you?

And for the infinite time - if it was easy, financially viable and efficient why didn’t they do it the way you’ve suggested?

Is it because there’s lots of factors to consider that you won’t give them the benefit of doubt about? That you expect some hoops poster to outline to you?

What of your arguments do you actually thing the NBL haven’t considered?

It really just looks like you’re on some LK conspiracy and trying to argue around your conspiracy even though you wouldn’t know shit about the machinations.

I’m game to admit I don’t know the internal machinations and I’m happy to give them benefit of doubt.

It’s the sane approach, I argue.

Reply #851603 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

I also argue there's nothing inconsistent in their approach to make out anything nefarious.

As established by Melbourne playing in Adelaide when they could have made both teams go to a different state to play.

They’ve favoured logistics and financials by the looks of it.

Reply #851604 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

It really looks like you're doing mental gymnastics to criticise the NBL because you feel your team is affected.

My team is shit and irrelevant so I’ve got no reason to go through those mental gymnastics so from an outward observer your arguments look like you haven’t thought about it much pragmatically and quick to hunt the NBL down for things you couldn’t possibly fully understand.

Reply #851606 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"Why couldn't they play today in a different state? Why make Melbourne play in Adelaide for a home game and not a neutral place?

Why doesn't that aggravate you"

For what benefit?

Reply #851608 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

You're aggravated by Melbourne playing away in Victoria instead of a neutral state.

Consistency....

Reply #851609 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

I do think you should give more benefit of doubt to the NBL, evidently you don't agree.

To me a lot of the moves make sense, clearly they don’t to you.

Clearly I’m not affected because my team isn’t good and yours did because yours is and you’re going to be more emotional about it and unwilling to give that benefit of doubt.

We done here?

Reply #851612 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

FFS Melbourne are playing in Adelaide because their is a current covid situation in Melbourne.

When United played an "away" game in Bendigo, there was none.

You just keep on throwing these strawman arguments and think you're making a point.

Reply #851615 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

You're just ignoring the whole covid impact of having NZ hub in Vic and the Vic gov funding?

So Adelaide is the only possible place they could have played the game?

They couldn’t have done the inconvenient thing and changed it to another state?

Which is what you’re trying to argue they should have done with NZ.

Don’t mention straw man if you don’t know what it means.

You also ignored a slew of arguments like how do you know better and why won’t you give NBL benefit of the doubt?

You haven’t answered that once.

You seem to constantly argue in a way that shows you won’t give them benefit of doubt but you’re refusing to admit it.

Reply #851618 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

You're criticising on something you couldn’t possibly know the whole story about, at the same time you won’t address the obvious elephant in the room of why you’re not giving them the benefit of the doubt?

You keep ignoring it and arguing on things where you don’t know how they arrive at outcomes - why shouldn’t they be given the benefit of the doubt?

You’re confining decisions in moments of time and supposed "affected by covid and not affected by covid" which I would argue is simply not how logistics work. Like when you suggested adding a NZ game when they appear to have set matchups for the year and simply delayed or move fixtures by state.

Or saying they should have planned a Bendigo game as being a home Melbourne game which would have then really been best moved to John Cain for Melbourne members but what if that caused issues with the financing for Bendigo games for NZ home games?

How can you do easily overlook complexities and to criticise the NBL?

You’ve got no real knowledge to be so openly critical.

If this wasn’t such a Covid affected life, I’d be game to indulge the criticism. But this year?

Totally unfair and unrealistic in expectation.

Reply #851619 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"You're just ignoring the whole covid impact of having NZ hub in Vic and the Vic gov funding?"

Wasn't the govt funding only relevant to the Cup? And I'm not ignoring the NZ hub in Victoria, I am highlighting the Tassie hub as being a perfect opportunity for United to play a proper away game.

" So Adelaide is the only possible place they could have played the game?

They couldn't have done the inconvenient thing and changed it to another state?

Which is what you’re trying to argue they should have done with NZ."

I've said nothing of the sort.

" Don’t mention straw man if you don’t know what it means."

You've just given two pretty decent examples.

Reply #851620 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

Come on answer the question.

Why won't you give benefit of the doubt to the NBL?

That’s what this comes to.

Reply #851621 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

We can argue decisions til the cows come home and I can say you're arguing fallacies and straw men and you can argue I am and I can argue you’re wrong and you can argue it wrong.

But at the end of the day, I certainly don’t know the factors that make for the decisions and I’m willing to defer in a pandemic to give the NBL benefit of the doubt.

Why is it, that equally not having a clue about the factors, that you are unwilling to give the NBL benefit of the doubt?

There’s no point arguing "well NBL don’t deserve it because of xx" when you have zero clue why “xx” was decided.

You’ve spent the entire thread really avoiding the critical question in all this, everything else doesn’t matter because that’s all “xx” including our little battle about away games and flipping hosting and preplanning and gov funding. Neither knows jack shit about the deals that happened.

So why doesn’t the benefit of doubt to the NBLs way in a pandemic?

Reply #851622 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

#615 when they played nz in Bendigo the Launceston thing wasn't organised

Reply #851624 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Haha you're demanding I answer your question while continually and deliberately misrepresenting my position, all the while spending the past 48 hours refusing to clarify your own nonsensical comment, namely...

"Can't make Melbourne travel away if they don't have away games to travel for"

Reply #851625 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"#615 when they played nz in Bendigo the Launceston thing wasn't organised"

You could not be more wrong.

Reply #851626 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

It has dawned upon me that I may have been indulging a troll that decided to follow me into a completely unrelated thread and chastised me for calling out a vile comment which was fairly moderated out by this site.

If that's the case I would ask if that’s the same person and if so I will withdraw from indulging said disgusting troll.

Reply #851627 | Report this post


koberulz  
Earlier this year

Disagreeing with you is not trolling, especially when what you're saying is stupid.

Reply #851628 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Hahahahaha you fucking idiot. What a weak way to exit a discussion.

It just "dawned upon you" did it? Or did someone with moderator privileges tell you? Or do you yourself have moderator privileges? I've asked you that a few times before but you haven't answered.

Reply #851629 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

" Disagreeing with you is not trolling, especially when what you're saying is stupid."

No, following me and trolling me for criticising a Nazi comment is.

If you read what I said, KR. Aren't you the king of hunting people down for not reading properly?

Reply #851630 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Sorry KET, this is absolutely pathetic. I don't care that you called me out for the comment, certainly not to the point where I'd spend three days responding to your nonsense.

Who told you we were the same person? Or are you an admin here yourself?

Reply #851631 | Report this post


KET  
Earlier this year

There we go.

Troll.

Thanks but no thanks. Enjoy Melbourne's success.

Reply #851633 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Are you a mod here KET?

Reply #851634 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Either KET is a mod here and abuses those privileges to try and counter anonymous comments (eg he has a long history of calling our fans of certain teams when there is no evidence of posters supporting any team) or someone is sharing this information with him and he uses it to "win" an argument.
Either way, the integrity of this site just went down the toilet because posting anonymously is no longer anonymous depending on the admins discretion.

You're weak as piss KET.

Reply #851636 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"No, following me and trolling me for criticising a Nazi comment is."

So by your logic, I said virtually nothing inflammatory in response to you calling me out for calling Bogut a Nazi, but then decided to "troll" you for three days because it cut me to the bone. Un-fucking-real.

Are you a mod here KET?

Reply #851638 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"KR. Aren't you the king of hunting people down for not reading properly?" ^5.

Reply #851642 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

[NBL probably did what made logistical and financial sense.]

Spot on.

The whole situation is summarised in this one sentence.

And then turned into incessant arguments by nuffies who want to read some nefarious intentions into it all

[And you have to do some mental gymnastics to not see the clear inconsistent reaction between Melbourne's advantages and Adelaides. Either be pissed at both or cop both as a result of Covid IMO]

Again spot on

SEM too who didn't travel for 9 consecutive weeks, and went about 4 months playing a total of 5 away games, with several of those bunched into one trip of 3 games in 6 days

Reply #851650 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Interstate* games not "away" games but I'm sure everyone got what I meant

Reply #851651 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

#626 umm no

Reply #851652 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The only reason I haven't commented on SEM's schedule is because I haven't done any sort of analysis on it. I can if you like but the fact I haven't doesn't mean I am being somewhat hypocritical or only directing my "outrage" in one direction.

Reply #851654 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The Tassie hub was announced in early March. The Bendigo game was the end of March.

Reply #851655 | Report this post


Isaac  
Earlier this year

Either way, the integrity of this site just went down the toilet because posting anonymously is no longer anonymous depending on the admins discretion.
KET's user privilege is level 2 which basically means they can post in contentious threads. Level 3 gives Sin Bin access, level 4 is for moderators, level 5 has never been used, I am level 6. I don't think anyone with moderator ability has the ability to do what you've described. Can you clarify what your reasoning for this thinking is? That someone has guessed the team you follow? Or thinks you're the same antagonist from another thread? Occam's razor likely applies.

But it's nice for someone to claim the site has any integrity to lose - that's a new concept.

Reply #851656 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I wasn't an antagonist from another thread. I made a joke, KET said it was in poor taste, I explained that it was just a joke and thats where the exchange.

He has somehow just decided that that brief interaction has led me to "troll" him for three days about an entirely separate issue, and one which I have discussed well before the Nazi comment. Sorry, I'm not buying thats a logical conclusion that just happened to dawn upon him.

Reply #851658 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Can a moderator see either email or IP addresses from posters?

Reply #851661 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Earlier this year

There are different levels of moderator.

Most are lower level ones who can merely flag or obscure the contents of a post temporarily pending final moderation/deletion by a higher up.

Reply #851664 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

If possible just get rid of anonymous posting.

The standard of the contributions on this forum would, on average, increase.

And the ability to understand and respond to others would also increase.

Reply #851679 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Agreed.

Reply #851680 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

#655 exactly. Things had already been scheduled with a vision to go home

Reply #851681 | Report this post


Hopscotch 55  
Earlier this year

If you took 2 wins from United, a win from Cairns, a win from SEM, and added 4 to NZ you probably just about balance out the effects of the draw, based on the number of genuine home games, neutral games and away games across the league.

That would still leave United on top, Cairns at the bottom, and NZ higher but not in the finals.

The interesting point of contention would actually be SEM and Sydney.
They'll finish reasonably close on the ladder, if SEM wins their next game moot point. But if they lost it, and Sydney had of had a couple less out of state games, and SEM a couple more.. perhaps positions might have switched.

Worked out based on (regardless of team strength) a team likely to win 70% at home or within their home state against an out of state team, 30% on the road (not in their home state), and 50% in a neutral venue, inclusive of where both teams are out of their home state, even if one has it as a temporary home.

So to me the draw was unfair, but not as significantly as I thought before putting that overlay on it, and probably didn't affect things that much, and potentially not as much for the teams that have been talked about most.

Sydney probably the team most hard done by - given for NZ things were pretty unavoidable.
If Sydney had picked up a couple extra home games (I have them playing more teams in the other team's home state, than vice versa), and SEM played a couple more times out of state, I see potential for them to have flipped on the ladder.

Still SEM with a game to play though, so even in that scenario chance for SEM to stay in.

Reply #851683 | Report this post


Hopscotch 55  
Earlier this year

Scenario 16H 14 A 6 neutral (hypothetically) at 70/30/50% win ratios..

Vs 18H, 18A 0 neutral

1st > 18.4 wins
2nd > 18 wins

2 extra home games sounds like a big advantage but not so much if those percentages could be taken as reasonable expectations (all other things being equal). Would only net 0.4 additional wins.

Not saying the above should be taken as a proof, or solid evidence, it's a dramatic oversimplification - but just a way I turned it over in my head.

Reply #851684 | Report this post


Isaac  
Earlier this year

I wasn't an antagonist from another thread. I made a joke, KET said it was in poor taste, I explained that it was just a joke and thats where the exchange.
So if you're not the individual from other threads, but he incorrectly assumed you were, why are you thinking he has secret powers? What am I missing?

Reply #851686 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I'm admitting I was the same person but that brief exchange about Bogut did not lead me to argue with KET for some days prior to that Nazi comment, or for three days afterwards. I've raised this issue about Melbourne's advantageous run before - to suggest I only kicked up a stink because KET didn't appreciate my joke about Bogut is absolutely ludicrous.

I can't remember who it was (Bolt maybe?) also had a go at me about the Nazi comment. I haven't said boo to him since.

KET either made a really good guess or someone told him we were the same user, but either way he decided that was a good exit strategy. Thats why I asked what mods can and can't see about random users.

Reply #851687 | Report this post


LV  
Earlier this year

Hopscotch spot on, United finished 7 games clear of everyone bar Perth

If they play Perth in the GF, ironically Perth will have the home advantage despite finishing lower

so it's absolutely absurd to suggest the fixture resulted in United getting any unfair advantage over any team at the end of the day

The travel factor in terms of hours flown is the only other issue but it's not a huge issue imo. And the "in their own bed" thing, well based on the small sample size of the 2020 AFL and NRL seasons, sleeping in a different bed is an advantage!

As you note, SEM has crept into playoffs, so they have had an infinitely greater advantage than United by their fixture at the end of the day, as its perfectly reasonable to argue it was the difference that got them into the playoffs. Whereas it made zero difference to United being top 2 (and ironically they finished 1st but for fixture purposes are really equal 3rd, as Hawks and Perth both get home advantage over them in playoffs. So United have been DISADVANTAGED by covid issues more than anyone else because they're the only team who isn't allowed to play home playoff games they rightfully earned. Or would've given the 7 game advantage)

Reply #851690 | Report this post


Isaac  
Earlier this year

Sometimes it's easier than you think to pick anonymous people from each other based on writing style or arguments. And the occasions where someone guesses wrong pass without much interest.

Reply #851692 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Hopscotch, SEM played their 'home' game against Cairns in Cairns. Tomorrow nights game is a game that had to be rescheduled because of he earlier mini lockdown in Perth. If they win tomorrow night they will have traveled from Cairns to Brisbane to New Zealand back to Brisbane and then to Perth to play Perth in the semi the following day, all in little more than a week. There’s been zero favours for SEM from the scheduling crew.

Reply #851703 | Report this post


Hopscotch 55  
Earlier this year

Re: SEM late season travel

Yes, I can see the thinking there. When I did a count including that though I still gave them more "home" games than away. Bearing in mind I count any game in Victoria as a home game for them or neutral, never away - regardless of how it is coded (some will agree with that, some won't).

But broadly agree - I think the way things happened to play in reality, rather than on paper, we probably got the right 4 teams in the finals, in approximately the same order they would have been.

In another season, where the competition was more even, the scheduling imbalance could have resulted in a very inequitable outcome.. think 2 Melbourne teams scraping in, that wouldn't have made it otherwise, and two teams missing out that very likely would. But I don't think that is what we got, so it is ok (in context.. to me).

Reply #851736 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Yeah, I think the top 4 is correct too

Reply #851761 | Report this post


D2.0  
Earlier this year

End of the day...
The Cup was a risky idea during covid, which fortunately didn't bite them in the arse.
Playing in the middle of the season, when the fatigue then directly impacted following games, was a mistake.
Notwithstanding that it helped Perth, I still think that counting the games towards the season was wrong. Who knows how Adelaide and Cairns might have performed subsequently if their season wasn't already over.

In future it needs to be run pre-season.
They need to combat fatigue, maybe bigger squads pre-season, maximum minutes imposed, or shorten the games (to say two x 15 minute halves.)
And it has to be rotated between cities.
And no carry-over of points.

Reply #851804 | Report this post




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