KWhite_Rulz
Earlier this year

What's next for Ben Simmons?

I'd be gobsmacked if Philly retain Ben for the next season given another SF failure. Where do you believe Ben will end up this offseason? I can see a move to Portland working for both teams.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Considering he was at one point the centre piece of a harden trade idek where he'll end up as his stock plummeted

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Simmons to Perth confirmed

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

La Lakers

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Lamar odom 2.0
Will eventually find his niche as a 2nd or 3rd option despite early in his career franchises hoping he turned all of his potential into a bona fide star.

At least odom became semi reliable outside shooter.

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Curtley  
Earlier this year

I'm a better shooter than Ben Simmons. Shaq had a bit of an excuse given he apparently broke both wrists as a kid and was so big he didn't need a jump shot. Ben has no excuse to not know how to shoot at least on a decent clip from now.

I hope it fires him up for the Olympics.

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Cram  
Earlier this year

Yeah it has to happen at this point. His offense has regressed horribly and he needs change. Philly need a PG they can rely on in the clutch. Seeing Embiid try to initiate offense from the top in the last two minutes was painful.

I still see Simmons to Portland for CJ McCollum as being the closest to a win win for both sides.

McCollum can get a chance to be the closer for Embiid, while Simmons plays with an elite shot maker and creator and gives them elite defense and a completely different look.

The thing is, where ever he plays, he needs to work on his two key weaknesses.

1. Forget the three ball, he just needs to make FTs. If he makes even 65% this series is probably completely different. His lack of ability to make FTs affects his confidence going to the rim as he does NOT want to end up at the line; which leads to

2. Passiveness on offense. When he gives the ball up early in offense he basically turns into a cone and does nothing but stand in the dunker spot. This takes away all of his strengths (agility, passing ability) and makes him super easy to defend. He needs to learn to play off the ball. I'd love to see him keep moving, set screens, roll to the hoop. He doesnt need to be an outside threat to make his defender work. I thought this issue might have been Brett Brown's offense but if anything it has gotten worse under Doc.

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Ben  
Earlier this year

Bill Simmons suggested a trade I thought made sense with Ben going to Portland for McCollum. + pieces on either side to make things work.

No way he stays in Philly. Will be fascinating to see with the failings if he genuinely works on being a better offensive player.

If NO goes all in on Zion being their number 1 option, perhaps they look at swinging out Ingram for Ben.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Remember when we were told that he was skipping the WC's because he needed to work on his jump shot? Has he started that yet?

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Cram  
Earlier this year

"I'm a better shooter than Ben Simmons."

I genuinely think most people here would be. There's simply no excuse for being such a poor free throw shooter as a pro.

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Hoopie  
Earlier this year

https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/nba/nba-playoffs-2021-philadelphia-76ers-vs-atlanta-hawks-game-7-score-result-video-live-updates-stream/news-story/efbb2d0d81442dad73bb291007bec0b9

Is pretty damning about Simmons

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Senator11  
Earlier this year

Draymond to Blazers
CJ to Philly
Ben to Warriors

Who says no?

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Luuuc  
Earlier this year

I agree, Cram.
Being a free throw liability has a lot of bad flow-on effects. Mentally it's a killer. Must sort that out even if he doesn't practice another 3PA all year.

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Manu Fieldel  
Earlier this year

I'm glad he's failing. In rooting for him to fail, because it can only result in a net positive at the end of the day. He doesn't care enough, so maybe repeated failure kicks his ass into gear. And if he doesn't respond to the failing, then it proves he's soft and deserves to continue failing. No sympathy for his smug entitled ass. It sucks that he's Australian because you want to root for him. Ah well

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Left ais because didn't want to be coached. Went to us hs where they bent over backwards to accomodate him.
Bucks all of the blue bloods to go to LSU because he had fre reign and they were happy to land him.
Gets to nba and has his brother train him.
Pattern.

The sad thing is, he’s so good despite all of this. He didn’t get the max on a fluke, he is legit one of the best talents out there. But the pattern of not working with what he has to take to the next level is going to be the difference between being all time great of the game, or someone that leaves us scratching. Our heads wondering what if?
Being great isn’t easy, but by the pattern of his career, he doesn’t seem to have the drive that those others have.

Honestly it would suck to be in that situation, the bank balance would soften the blow

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Isaac  
Earlier this year

Embiid and Rivers gave answers to questions post-game that wouldn't exactly suggest they were thrilled by him. I think those relationships are toast, especially with Embiid.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

He went 3/3 from the field across all fourth quarters in the series.

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LoveBroker  
Earlier this year

Draymond to Blazers


Wouldn't the Warriors and Draymond want to give it one more try?

Next year you should have :
- Steph
- Klay (recovered)
- Wiseman (recovered)
- Dray
- Wiggins
- Oubre Jnr


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Senator11  
Earlier this year

For sure regarding Dray, but if they think they can mould Ben into a younger more athletic version of Dray then that would be an improvement.

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Isaac  
Earlier this year

But their window is now, and you wouldn't exactly call Draymond mentally fragile. Ben’s obviously got serious yips right now that he seemingly can’t overcome. Warriors wouldn’t want to gamble on that in the short term, I don’t think.

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Cram  
Earlier this year

The way Simmons stock has fallen and Wiggins has actually been repaired, you could ALMOST see those two being traded for each other, but I doubt it. Sixers need a leader. If they can pick up Kyle Lowry (Philly's lad) they might be more willing to move Simmons for a lesser return, with Thybule being a ready made defensive replacement

A line up of Lowry, McCollum, Thybule, Harris and Embiid with Seth Curry as your sixth man would be pretty damn good.

Reply #855311 | Report this post


Manu Fieldel  
Earlier this year

All Philly needs is someone with a dog mentality who isn't scared of the moment, who you can put the ball in his hands and go make a play in a one-posession game. Someone who can drive a team with relentless work ethic and who'll do anything to win and put the team on his back. Someone like say Jimmy Butler... Oh shit.

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rjd  
Earlier this year

I've always thought the problem isn't his jumpshot, especially shooting 3s, it's his mental strength. That's the root of his problem. He doesn't have that killer mental instinct. More specifically, I'd say he has a chokers instinct. This is an absolute killer when it comes to free-throws late in games. Fear of choking that facilitates choking.

Overall, he fades throughout the game. He has a pattern throughout his career of being less productive late in game, and that isn't just due worries about shooting FTs. It can be shown year after year in advanced stats.

Looking at his splits by actual margin this season, when his team is down 1-5, his mentality is different. He's aggressive, he is focused, he hits FTs at 78%! When the score is tied, he is active, he is crashing boards at a peak rate, but his FT% plummets to 52%. When up just 1-5, he becomes hesitant, and when he has time to think, like in FTs, his FT% is at that dismal 54% level.

I don't know how this deficiency can be addressed. As mentioned previously in this thread, there is a pattern. He tends to choose the easier option mentally. He is so very talented, but he tends to stick to his comfort zone. Maybe a new environment? A coach that is hard on him?

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Shaq  
Earlier this year

Who's going to take on his contract? He's still owed $147m over the next four years. Also has a 15% trade kicker. Surely won't be easy to move.

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Cram  
Earlier this year

Every contract is movable. Seeing guys like Wall and Westbrook move around the league and CP3 go from being considered a guy with an immovable contract to an MVP finalist shows this.

Simmons definitely need some changes to his work and to his team. Its clear he isn't "the next lebron" anymore, but he could easily be a big contributor on a winning team like a Draymond Green.

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Isaac  
Earlier this year

rjd, seems likely. Narrowly down and you can only succeed - you either stay down (no one thinks the worst of you) or get in front. Up a few and you could be the one who screws it up and starts the slide to a loss.

If they haven't had a full time sports psych with him all season, they’re crazy.

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Truth  
Earlier this year

Don't forget that Simmons is in the Rich Paul camp, so Lakers are a chance here.

Philly are going to have to take whatever they can get now. His value is at rock bottom.

A trade where it is Schroder & KCP for Simmons could be all Philly get.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The criticism of Simmons is valid, but it's not like this issue is anything new. Everyone knew Simmons was never likely to lead this team in the way of scoring when it came down to it. Simmons has been celebrated with similar state lines and for his defense whenever Philly have managed to win games. So why is everyone suddenly saying this is the straw that broke the camels back? Again, its valid, but you can't blame Ben for everything. Go on and on, over and over again but the weakness in his game, season after season but say nothing about the clever Atlanta tactics for instance. Maybe questions need to be asked of Doc Rivers? There seems to be something lacking with him when it comes to playoff basketball. I know everyone will point to his three throw percentage etc, but I'm simply saying you cant blame him for everything.

And the point about Doc Rivers and Joel Embiid appearing to effectively single out Simmons, was again a pretty low thing to do. There must be some serious personal bad blood between them for those kinds of comments to be made. It strikes me as very unsportsmanlike to point out individual occasions where a teammate has made a mistake or not executed something, regardless of whether it's true or not. Would he really be the first to make blunders under pressure? And why aren't others singled out also? And also Shaq's comments about decking him in the locker room. This isn't the typical support you get when you come up short to say the least. The question is why do we attack Simmons like this but not anyone else who has failed to live up in a similar way?

And not enough credit to Atlanta. Philly should have won but I still see them being inferior to Milwauke.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Doc has been there one season, did he try and change things up and Simmons stayed the same, originally at seasons start there was talk of already trading him out. Simmons is 24, he went to his father mates college, they never made March madness, then onto 76ers where again the coach was a family friend. He's made millions and good luck to him, he can be a star, he’s got get his head right and work as hard as kobe, mj, lebron have.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The last player I remember passing up a wide open dunk during a playoffs/finals game was Bogut in 2015 when he also shat the bed. Are some of our Aussies just mentally weak on the big stage?

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Simmo might learn something from Patty at Olympics in terms of preparation and having a f#ck it mentality.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Why is he so highly regarded by Australian media? We never here about Ingles but you get headlines like below:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/american-sports/nba/ben-simmons-betrayed-by-his-own-teammates-coach/news-story/cdcb2b039d98a46b272dd34500805c3b

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Nostraballmus  
Earlier this year

Nostraballmus says that will be forgotten when he leads the Boomers to gold in a few weeks time.

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Crackers65  
Earlier this year

Well his next team should be Australia at the olympics.
What's the odds of him missing to work on his game?

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KET  
Earlier this year

" What's the odds of him missing..."

Infinity

“…to work on his game?”

Absolute zero

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Although Nets got beaten, do you reckon Philadelphia and Heat are kicking themselves in not making a trade.
Philadelphia went from the Process with a tonne of picks, including a number 1 overall where they could have double bluffed Celtics and taken Tatum, then trades for Butler and get minimal return when he realised the franchise sucked, to suddenly now they really only have Embiid and not much else. Everyone will know Simmons is cheap now, what can they expect back. Would like to see Miami get him into their system and try to mould him in their culture, and defensively with Bam and Jimmy they'd be great. Probably Herro and sign and trade Nunn may be possible. Because after the bubble, everyone was huge on Herro, imo just another Mike Miller, way prefer Robinson as their floor spacer. So Miami get scared about including him for Harden, his lifestyle and if it would fit with Miami, which may concern them with Simmons.
But I remember listening to podcasts at start of the season, and experts were perplexed why teams like Philadelphia and Miami wouldn't pull the pin for an MVP level player. If they'd been healthy, Nets would be favourites. Instead we have Atlanta and Milwaukee in East, which is great for small market teams but will be catastrophic for ratings. And West has a hobbled Kawhi and chokey PG-13 against another surprise in Phoenix.
Do Philadelphia keep Ben because there's no way they get equal return and they would like to contend with Embiid in prime. Golden state would be a good fit with their shooting. Can't see them giving Green up, but maybe Oubre and even both first rounders if they get Minnesotas. Depending on lottery, they could be in position to get a Suggs along with Oubre which could be a decent return, stating point guard and scoring wing.
Also, would Denver possibly move Porter. Ideal for Philadelphia, but would probably have to include a 1st. And could Sacramento bring Ben to basketball purgatory for Heild and Bagley?

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

"If NO goes all in on Zion being their number 1 option, perhaps they look at swinging out Ingram for Ben."

Mate, you can't have two bad shooters

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KWhite_Rulz  
Earlier this year

Absolutely agree KET. He's not coming to the Olympics and he won't work on his game. Too much COD and Fortnite to play.

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Isaac  
Earlier this year

Why is he so highly regarded by Australian media?
He isn't. They usually ignore him until there's an excuse to cut him down. The first headline in News Corp publications was: "Photo shows Ben Simmons is a broken man" with an abstract of "Aussie Ben Simmons has completely disintegrated in a Game 7 choke that has eliminated Philadelphia and likely blown up the team's roster."

I think he's an intriguing discussion for basketball fans, but tall poppy material for the media in general.

So why is everyone suddenly saying this is the straw that broke the camels back?
He was known as a non-shooter, but he would still score. These play-off series have gone to another level, FT% has plummeted further, and offensive output declined again. Multiple moments where he's avoided obvious scoring opportunities.

The media post-game caught Rivers and Embiid at a seriously emotional time - failing in a big moment. I'm sure they had concerns before, but after a solid season I imagine they pictured Simmons being a key piece of the team going forward. I'd say that after this post-season campaign, they've decided otherwise. Embiid mentioned a specific moment and then extrapolated to his botched play following that.

People get attacked like this constantly. Butler after the Heat campaign, Playoff P, Giannis has copped it constantly, multiple coaches ridiculed, etc.

What I don't like about the Shaq comment is that it hits a player (hypothetical teammate in his comment) at their lowest. Simmons would know he's rattled. As Skip Bayless (I think) said, it's now psychological. It's gone from 'physically can't shoot confidently' to instinctively avoiding any scoring opportunity out of fear of free throw nerves. A further discussion is how much sympathy you have for a pressure situation experienced by someone getting paid tens of millions.

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Zodiac  
Earlier this year

I don't like Ben Simmons and Shaq was my favourite player but that was a disgusting comment by Shaq. He's turned into a real bully in the media since he retired and if you notice he almost always goes after player who aren't well liked.

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Hoopie  
Earlier this year

I saw a number of his free throws where he had the direction right but it was either too long or too short.

When any players I coach have the same problem, I just suggest they shoot harder and rely on the backboard absorbing the excess energy, which usually works until they work out the strength they need.

Perhaps he & his shooting coaches are over-thinking it.

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NikeAl79  
Earlier this year

I really do think Ben would work well under Pop in a Spurs system he needs a coach who would allow him to play to his strengths and get the best out of him.

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LV  
Earlier this year

I hope Spurs don't take him and his supermax contract.

We already have Murray who's a similar type of player, not as good obviously, but also not ridiculously overpaid like Simmons.

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Cram  
Earlier this year

He needs to be somewhere that has an elite outside scorer who can get his own shot (ie Portland). I dont think you can play him at PG anymore.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

He still has huge strengths, defence, ability to push the ball and passing. Obviously his shooting is now his main concern. He didn't win them the series, but would they have made it that far without him.
Someone is going to get a bargain, New York is looking for a star, Warriors don't need shooting so would be perfect. If I'm the Warriors GM I'm calling Sixers and saying everyone but Steph and Klay, maybe Green even though his talent set is similar, are available, don't be greedy though.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

He'd get eaten alive by Knicks fans and NY media.

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Cram  
Earlier this year

Yeah not New York. No.

Morey will probably try to trade him to Washington for Beal and end up getting Westbrook

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Isaac  
Earlier this year

Regarding the other consolidated thread, I don't think those specific family issues would've been a huge factor. I think this crept up on him. The 76ers had a decent season and added scoring pieces. He and they would've figured that might be enough to overcome Simmons' offensive deficiencies. Play defence, come down and distribute to scorers at the other end. I just doubt anyone expected that it would get to the point that he'd turn down a dunk.

The Washington Series was, obviously just Washington, but his games were:

6/15/15
22/9/8
14/5/9
13/12/3 (25 mins, foul trouble)
19/10/11

64% from the field. Averaged close to a triple double. On paper, seems fine for a guy with Embiid getting 30 a game, Harris, Curry, etc.

I can see how to maintain his sanity, he might look at that and figure it wasn't an emergency. FT shooting over the last two games was better than the first three's 0/9! Then they open the Atlanta series with a narrow loss where he misses 7 FT. Game 4, 3 point loss where he misses 4 FT. Another 3 point loss where he misses 10 FT. Grew up in an online world where the talk of his FTs is a constant assault. Too late then to realise the depths of the headspace problem, is my guess.

I wouldn't be forcing him to practice FTs right now. I'd encourage him to get away from his phone and focus on some things he's naturally good at first.

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Isaac  
Earlier this year

Likely other family issues though?

Two days after that 2018 loss to the Celtics, the Sixers held exit meetings in their Camden, N.J., training facility. Each player was given a four-page document containing individualized offseason plans. For Simmons the list of priorities included free-throw shooting, finishing at the rim and developing a jump shot. In that order.

After the meetings, Brown told reporters during a press conference that he expected Simmons to spend "intense time" with Townsend over the offseason. Everyone around the team was excited. They felt like a breakthrough had occurred, that Simmons was ready not only to solidify his improvements at the line but also to begin carrying those changes over into his shooting overall.

After exit meetings, the players and coaches went their separate ways to recharge. Some time passed and, according to multiple league sources, when Townsend returned to the team's facility Brown pulled him aside. Change of plans, he said.

Simmons’ agent, Rich Paul, and family had decided that he’d be better off working with one of his brothers, Liam, a former low-level Division I guard and assistant coach, who now coaches at D-2 Colorado Christian University.
NBA executives told draft expert Jonathan Givony they thought Simmons had a character problem. An introvert by nature, Simmons responded by turning more inward, cutting his circle down to family and the closest of friends. His parents moved to Philadelphia. Sean became his manager. Klutch Sports, where one of his sisters worked, became his agency.

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Hoopie  
Earlier this year

Wow. Awesome find, Isaac

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

So basically he has never been held accountable and he would rather have enablers around him than people who want to help him actually develop his game

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rjd  
Earlier this year

All of this is consistent. Look what happens to him when the going gets tough.

With the harshness of Philly fans and a head coach that coddled him, it was actually one of the worst places for him to go. This pattern needs to be broken.

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KET  
Earlier this year

It's super disappointing to see players’ mental side so clearly get in the way of their potential.

Spurs have been an outstanding organisation in developing the right mentality in players, and those that are too stubborn or cannot be fixed they will unapologetically shed.

That’s the right way to go.

We see stars dictate what the roster will be, the coach they want coaching them, the playing style they want.

Then they fall out with other players and they bail, or they fall out with management and bail or they sook and try to deflect blame when things go wrong.

A player isn’t a GM, a player isn’t a coach. I’d love to see NBA teams not give in to the shocking star mentality. Inevitably when they go "screw this, we will get rid of you" the damage is already done.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Always been the same, I'm surprised people are only just realising this. In the end he’s probably going back his own family and people he trust, they have helped him become the multi million dollar man he is.

Reply #855527 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Earlier this year

Spurs under somebody strong and respected like Pop might be a good option, but what about after Pop leaves?

Reply #855529 | Report this post


Young Gun  
Earlier this year

I think whatever we think the strategy is to get Ben to actualise his potential, HE needs to want to address whatever the mental issues are that causing such a colossal breakdown.

Reply #855563 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Sydney Kings by 2023

Reply #855565 | Report this post


Anon  
Earlier this year

Going to olympics would be best thing for Simmons! He will regret this decision long term

Reply #857071 | Report this post


Isaac  
Earlier this year

Danny Green on Ben Simmons: "You can tell Ben's the type of kid if he’s not encouraged; if he’s not pushed or forced to do it, he’s not the type to take that risk."
Would be easy to consider it laziness, but given the avoidance of shooting and after what transpired in the play-offs, I think it's likely more an anxiety thing. And the team's hands-off approach hasn't worked. The 76ers made a mistake in leaving him to take the easy road in self-managing the off-season training, shooting with his brother instead of the allocated coach, etc. He needs stronger direction and support to get on top of it.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Stronger direction and support is fine, you need to want to do it. When it's all handed to you and you really never earned it, you might never understand what it takes. Look at how Kobe, Le bron, MJ all worked there arse off.

Reply #857125 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Earlier this year

Perhaps he needs to go to LA to work alongside LBJ and be motivated to get better

Reply #857139 | Report this post




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