Anonymous
Years ago

Does Melbourne United make a profit?

Just thinking about SEG's potential purchase of the wildcats.

SEG is asx listed so their affairs are "public". They have a duty to make a return for shareholders. Whilst this is generally true for most businesses, when it comes to private individuals purchasing sporting teams, sometimes it's about passion, fun, or ego as opposed to making an investment return.

SEG already has a 25% stake in United. You would think that would have had to be decent for them to consider another NBL club purchase.

I guess the alternative view is that the United investment hasn't worked for them, and they'd like to sell that one off and instead invest in Perth, which may be profitable due to their larger membership base.

All in all, I'm not sure it bodes well for Perth fans who want to see big investment in the team. SEG will probably limit spending, hope the team washes it's own face financially and then promote the SEN products at the game and through wildcat media channels.

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ME (he/kangaroo)  
Years ago

NBL teams rarely, if ever, make a profit. How owners make money off of NBL teams is it's a tax offset.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

They did in 2019-20

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes they are listed but it's quite easy for them to hide any loses etc, even if MU make a profit, again similar to loses you can make revenue appear it's coming from a certain source. Each qtr SEG will release a 4C, the next reporting season will be end of July.
I'm not sure what SEG objectives are with MU, the ASX and other capital markets and companies have some different objectives. For instance some companies and their shareholders are after growth and not dividend. All in all as long as the share price is heading north a majority of shareholders won't give a rats, you can even be losing a stack of money (eg Afterpay) but as the share price continues to surge all is well.
So to find the answer if MU makes a profit not sure SEG will shed much light sorry mate, would be good to see which clubs etc do turn a profit.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes fair call but at the the of the day afterpay is going up on the expectation that it will make profits in the future.

Most asx listed companies will be making investments on this basis.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

expectations that Afterpay will make a profit and actually making a profit are 2 different things. A lot of share holders for APT now will not be around for when it may make a profit, that will be a different set of share holders, these share holders are the type that work on dividends.
Now let's take SEG, circa $50M MC and I believe EBIT positive (will need to check out financials to confirm) so this leads us to why then invest into a basketball team losing money?
Sometimes it could be as simple as adding value to the vertical, balance sheet building. It may be that the investment is based on tranches and MU hitting certain milestones, minimum advertising spend or VIK investment made by SEG into MU.
I doubt SEG would have a 249d taken against them from share holders regarding their investment into MU.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I understood precisely none of that!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

it's financial talk, to answer would SEG need to disclose any MU profit as they are a listed company and why would share holders invest in SEG.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I'm not so much asking about disclosure of United or wildcats profits, just trying to understand the rationale behind the investment. As I understand it nbl clubs struggle to make a return in the traditional investment sense that presumably is accepted for publically listed companies.

I also don't know what VIK is

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Zodiac  
Years ago

There could be numerous reasons rather than a straight "do they make a profit" answer. Could be for tax reasons. Could be as an investment they make think a big TV deal is right around the corner or perhaps the NBA is looking at buying the league so best to get in now and sell when things improve or could be like the NBA guys buying into the league a bit of a cheap plaything to learn the behind the scenes stuff of running a team or a prestige thing to brag to their mates about.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

With the Wildcats, they're buying a ready made profitable brand to tie into their exiting sporting entry into WA, and with the added bonus of tax write-offs

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Anonymous  
Years ago

2018-19: loss of 0.76m
2019-20: loss of 0.02m

Not bad to achieve a break even result in 19-20. Although 2020-21 results will be worse with covid impacts

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Anonymous  
Years ago

So the 19-20 years weren't COVIF effected? Bullshit. They should be far less than quoted.

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koberulz  
Years ago

So the 19-20 years weren't COVIF effected? Bullshit.
How, exactly, do you think COVID affected a season that concluded before COVID happened?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

VIK = Value in Kind.

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Isaac  
Years ago

'791, the restrictions came in during the grand final series, which didn't feature United. Their income streams would've been all but wrapped up by that point.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Very true Zodiac, I would imagine the investment is more than based on profit of MU. SEG had underlying EBIT of circa $8.5M so I would say that SEG is trying to build out their balance sheet with intangible asset value with the aim that their equity stake increases through higher franchise value. Generally when a public listed company would invest into another business for the purpose of profit (also known as buying revenue) it's a business with year after year profitability. When you are a listed company you have different multiples for company valuation or PE (price earnings) hence giving your business a higher market cap value.
Not sure MU would give SEG the market cap increase in this case so as Zodiac said I think this deal is more than profit, it's a bigger longer term play.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

So for Perth fans, they need not be worried that Hutchy and Co are in it to fuck things up?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

How, exactly, do you think COVID affected a season that concluded before COVID happened? How did Perth win the Finals?

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Perthworld  
Years ago

This acquisition by SEG is clearly not an income play but for capital growth. With every man and his dog buying into the NBL I'm starting to think it isn't just LK hype anymore and something is around the corner.

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Perthworld  
Years ago

Not an income play based on current levels of revenue and profits, that is.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon #767 wrote:

"It may be that the investment is based on tranches and MU hitting certain milestones, minimum advertising spend or VIK investment made by SEG into MU."

This appears to be correct. Crocmedia only paid around $1m of cash from the looks of things.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon #798 wrote:

"How, exactly, do you think COVID affected a season that concluded before COVID happened? How did Perth win the Finals?"

They were referring to Melbourne United's season. COVID impact was only from Game 2 onwards of the Grand Final series. United lost in the semi-finals.

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Isaac  
Years ago

'798, the clue is in the thread title "does Melbourne United make a profit" and the annual numbers which appear to be OP pulling from United-specific information they've since discovered. Are you talking about something else?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

"2018-19: loss of 0.76m
2019-20: loss of 0.02m"

So what is the explanation for the $700k loss then?

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Zodiac  
Years ago

DJ Kennedy ;)

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KET  
Years ago

" So what is the explanation for the $700k loss then?"

Do you genuinely expect hoops posters are going to have detailed understanding of the numbers and the reasons?

If they've extracted them from an Annual Report, the numbers are the numbers - I doubt you’d know enough to be able to drill down and call bullshit, so you can’t naturally assume they are bullshit or expect some lay poster here to explain it in greater detail for you.

Even if they did you’d probably ignore it and come up with some other ridiculous unanswerable question (that would be better placed with the CFO who would probably tell you to stop wasting his time).

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Perthworld  
Years ago

So what is the explanation for the $700k loss then?

They spent $700,000 more than they earned, duh.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

So on staff like Perth spends? Players? More info needed. This was pre the pay cuts so thats not a reason.

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KET  
Years ago

On paying refs ;)

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Isaac  
Years ago

Different playing roster so could be anything from roster spend, marketing efforts, office staff, all sorts of things. Or could be more down to reducing venue hire or a better take from sponsorship or ticket sales.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

This acquisition by SEG is clearly not an income play but for capital growth. With every man and his dog buying into the NBL I'm starting to think it isn't just LK hype anymore and something is around the corner.

I agree

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