Agreed and good post. Great team effort and clearly shows they have a good coach in Vickerman.

Had a weapon in Landale but didn't get what most expected from Hopson.

Like you say, effectively starting two DPs,they were hardly stacked at all.

sorry no, 32 isn't he? Maybe 33 this year?

Also dealt with the loss of White. I think Goulding missed a few games? Good teams deal with injury and stay the course one way or another.

Meh

Generous post

Team very stacked though. Hopson was arguably the best player in the comp last season. Baba isn't an "import" but rather a "restricted player" or whatever. Terminology. He's a foreigner who'd played professionally in both Japan and G League.

Landale is elite. On the offensive end, his efficiency makes him the equal of any other Centre Melbourne has seen- including luminaries such as Anstey and Bradtke (eg the 2 greatest 5 men in NBL history)

CG is 32 and is one of the best outside shooters in league history. The only season he wasn't starting consistently was 18-19. McCarron is the right type of point guard alongside him to get the most out of him.

JLA has obvious weaknesses- foul prone and turnover prone- but is a 7 footer and in terms of pure scoring one of the best bigs in the NBL, behind say Landale, DJ, Martin, Mooney and That's about it. (Although Mooney is a system player and JLA more a free lancer so that's an apples oranges comparison).

United was very very, very stacked and very deep.

Vickerman does well at managing personalities, but with X's and O's is not in the top tier of NBL coaches. At the moment, Gleeson and Goorjian well ahead of him. Wright, Beveridge and Lemanis probably on par with Vickerman in terms of what they achieved in their coaching careers *relative to the talent they had at their disposal*.

On Landale, from memory Anstey shot 47% FG and 30% 3P for his NBL career.

Landale this season 55% and 39%.

Anstey did hit more 3s, but Landale a more rounded offensive player and scorer overall.

[Wright, Beveridge and Lemanis probably on par with Vickerman in terms of what they achieved in their coaching careers *relative to the talent they had at their disposal*]

I'd add Fearne too. No title but 2 Grand finals and never at any point had the best roster in the comp.

I'm only talking coaches like Vickerman who have 5+ years to go off.

Its an interesting quirk that United was starting two less credentialled players in McDaniel and Peatling

Or "starting two DPs" hence the team isn't stacked

Some alternate questions

- How many of United's bench guys would be either starting, or have bigger roles on several other teams, or most other teams

- Would United starters have bigger roles on other teams?

Eg would Landale be playing 27/28 minutes on any other team, instead of 32-35 like most other stars?

Anstey dominated back then when he wasn't trying to jack up threes. Landale is nowhere near that level.

Anstey a better defender. I was referring to offense. Anstey threw up a questionable number of threes over his career. Percentages dropped too low in later seasons.

2006 Anstey was awesome. A great season for both Anstey and the Tigers. I remember it well.

But two differences with Landale. The depth of talent wasn't as great across the NBL. Secondly the Tigers ran an 8 man rotation in 48 minute games, United runs 10 in 40. Landale plays 27.6 minutes a game, Anstey played 39.2 minutes a game in 2006. Of course Anstey accumulated more stats. (Although scores were lower per minute in that era).

Landale is a better scorer and offensive player. More efficient in a more talented NBL. Basketball has evolved, so it's apples and oranges in some ways.

But for his time, Anstey 06 was unstoppable. A 7 footer, a rim protecting force at one end and a 3 point shooting big at the other who could pass. More unusual than it is now.

So I agree, Anstey 06>Landale 21, for his time. But its very close. Anstey has the edge defensively, Landale offensively.

The stats you quoted, again, were with Anstey playing 10-15 more minutes per game than Landale did this year.

Landale played 6 playoff games. In one of them he played 14 minutes and fouled out. In the other 5 games he was very influential. Every single game. Landale was easily, easily the best player in United's semi final series. It was Landale then daylight. And then the best player in the GF. (Shaded CG who would've also been a deserving winner).

Anstey in the 06 GF played Sydney missing their Centre Rolan Roberts. Landale in 2021 played a fellow all NBL first teamer in Mooney, who actually got more 1st team votes than Landale, and Landale convincingly got the better of him. Plus he went against Magnay a supposed NBA prospect.

Mooney, Magnay, Humphries, Martin, Oliver, DJ, Iverson- I think you'll find this group of big men are easily better than the opponents Anstey faced in 2006.

Again, Anstey was world class player and a better defender than Landale is right now. But Landale is world class too, was dominant in the playoffs, and perhaps could've been regular season MVP too, if he wasn't playing on a 10 deep team with plenty of players needing the ball and only playing 27 or 28 minutes a game.

Landale shot 72% from the field over a 3 game semi final series. 55% for the season. Anstey in his prime would've been lucky to shoot 70% in a game, let alone over a 3 game series

But they are different players- Anstey wanted to be the man, and forced up more questionable shots than Landale does. Landale is a bit more content to wait for his shot and play within a system.

And to be fair, Anstey faced more physical defense than what's allowed these days

Onya Dazz.
This thread is now just LV crapping on about the past.

(Which of course, helped Anstey at the other end too. Anstey wasn't getting fouled out with soft calls like some paid against Landale in Game 2 semi. They let em play more in those days, Anstey used his height and length and defended the rim with the full physicality allowed. He was a master at staying vertical but the refs definitely helped by allowing more body contact than now)

[Onya Dazz.
This thread is now just LV crapping on about the past.]

Dazz suggested United wasn't that stacked, and talked down Landale's credentials.

Comparisons to past NBL players and champion teams are 110% relevant to the OP's comments

Fouls may have been down but my recollection is D was more physical back in the day

You realise that would only strengthen Landale's case though yeah? Anstey shot 45.5% from the field in 2006, Landale shot 54.4% this season and scoring was about the same (adjusted for minutes- Anstey 22.5ppg in 39.2 mins, Landale 16.4ppg in 27.6 mins. Slightly higher scores overall per minute in 2021 so slight advantage to Anstey on the ppg but only marginal)

Landale was the 2nd leading scorer in this year's playoffs, and the only reasons he wasn't first were 1. He got screwed by the refs and restricted to 14 minutes in semi Game 2, and 2. Blanchfield chucked up a gazillion shots, outscoring Landale in the process but shooting a nightmarish 33% from the field.

I don't want to talk down Anstey- 2006 was my favourite Tigers season ever, I was heavily involved with the Tigers in a volunteer role at the time. I travelled interstate to watch the team at least once that season, probably more.

But we have to get the facts right.

I'd say Anstey 2006 was much more dominant than Landale in 2021- but that's because Anstey's team lacked the depth and the whole competition lacked depth. When the playoffs rolled around, Landale's 2021 impact would be difficult to overstate. So overall I'd give it to Anstey 2006 as a better player for his time, but it's very close.

[I don't want to talk down Anstey- 2006 was my favourite Tigers season ever, I was heavily involved with the Tigers in a volunteer role at the time. I travelled interstate to watch the team at least once that season, probably more.]

And, as some old people of my vintage may recall, I was talking up Anstey for MVP and Tigers for the title on Ozhoops forum on a probably daily basis, long before either eventuated!

Here's something I would like to see and LV should are probably the poster suited for this.

Your all time Melbourne Tigers/United team.
Starters
Bench
Honorable mentions...

* you are.

Honestly I'd have to spend weeks doing it. It'd be very difficult choosing final selections.

I'd probably end up doing two teams- my personal favorites (to include guys like D-Mac, Lucas Walker and Rashad Tucker who I loved watching for pure entertainment value) and then the actual team of guys who genuinely deserve it (guys like Giddey who had longevity and service to the club, but whose best work was before my time - I didn't start following NBL closely until 2001-02, Wazza's last season).

As a quick 5 minutes off the top of my head, without much thought,I'll throw these out there:

The deserving (1984-2021):

Bradtke/Anstey
Simmons/Timmons/Barlow
Giddey/Thomas
Copeland/Goulding
Gaze/Ware


LV's personal favourites (2001-2021):

Anstey/Bradtke
Timmons/Walker
Tucker/Hoare
Gaze/Goulding/Copeland
D-Mac/Ware

I was at Game 3 of the 1997 GF, so I'll claim that as my first Tigers title but became a member in 2001 and started attending regularly, hence the 2001-2021

Good shot at it though.
Longevity plays it's part too.
Imagine Landale dominating for another 8 years or so, alas that won't happen as he will go to NBA or Europe.

Ennis for Perth was one of the best one year players the league has seen but I can't put him in as an all time Wildcat.

Agreed, there are plenty of great one season players in the annuls of NBL history (Ennis, Wilbekin, Carlos Powell being a few)

Landale will probably join them as I'm pretty sure he only played due to COVID. Locked down in Melb then started training with both Melbourne teams, and it turned into a one season deal with United. If he doesn't get an NBA contract you'd assume he goes back to Euroleague next season.

Although hopefully he comes back one day like Bogut, Andersen, Anstey etc. Wouldn't it be awesome if Mills, Ingles, Baynes or Delly did likewise in the next couple of years.