Anonymous
Two months ago

Revisiting Thybulle vs Cotton debate

Bloke is a absolute beast of a defender and improving offensively still can't believe people were debating weather to take him or cotton!

Topic #49057 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Thybs is gonna win DPOTY one of these days

Reply #865257 | Report this post


proud  
Two months ago

Cotton at 100% fit would still be exactly the offensive firepower that we lack off the bench.

I'm a fan of Exum but he feels like he's learning on the fly and Goulding isn't as hot as he was in grand final series and pre Olympics.

Whilst Thybulle has been amazing, I think it was still a good debate to have, how can anyone be upset over either player?

This squad has questionable players within it and we have named a player in every position but I hardly think Thybulle is going to hear anyone suggest that he doesn't belong in a Boomers jersey.... how do we get him playing more games for Australia... are we able to get him playing in more friendlies somehow?

Reply #865259 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two months ago

Someone please correct the thread title. Put some respect on this man's name!

Reply #865267 | Report this post


Senator11  
Two months ago

Getting 2 completely different set's of skills with Cotton and Thybulle. If Cotton had gotten naturalised and was selected over Thybulle, would we have been unhappy with Cotton's 20+ pts per game? I don't think so, we'd probably be saying 'I can't believe ppl were saying Thybulle over Cotton'. At the end of the day I think in both scenarios we would have gotten a player that made a huge difference to the Boomers side and I'm thankful we did get one of them in Thybulle.

I just hope we see more of Green in this next game, instant production when he's on the court and he's super aggressive which we'll need against USA.

Reply #865268 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The problem with that theory is Cotton isn't/wasn't going to get 20+ points per game at the Olympics.

Reply #865269 | Report this post


Senator11  
Two months ago

'The problem with that theory is Cotton isn't/wasn't going to get 20+ points per game at the Olympics.'


Well you can't say that either cos we don't know, he would've been the 6th man off the bench instead of Thybulle and Goorjian saw his strengths first hand during the NBL season so yeah.

Reply #865274 | Report this post


cavolo  
Two months ago

Matisse over Bryce for me in this team. M's length, defensive prowess and versatility is elite and although not every elements shows up on a box score, the pressure he forces on the opposition is sight to behold! Not sure why anyone is really questioning team selection at this point given they’re undefeated since being put together including a great win against USA pre-Olympic and have now made the final four. Sit back and enjoy the team and hopefully a medal around their necks will be just rewards for their excellent play.

Reply #865276 | Report this post


LV  
Two months ago

3.2 steals per game!

How many transition points have those led to? Plenty

Reply #865277 | Report this post


AngusH  
Two months ago

Cotton would not have been taking Thybulle's role... Sobey's role, sure. He might have taken mins off Exum if he shot the ball well, but we've also seen him struggle against NBA-sized guards in the preseason NBL-NBA games, and I think he'd have a lot of trouble with the physicality we see on the perimeter from the better teams at the FIBA level also. Great player, but ludicrous to think that he'd steal minutes away from the guy who has arguably had as much influence on our success on D that Mills has had on O.

Reply #865278 | Report this post


Daniel Trollingham  
Two months ago

Yes spell it correctly please.

Reply #865279 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

AngusH, due to FIBA rules it was a choice, Thybulle or Cotton, not both.

Reply #865280 | Report this post


LV  
Two months ago

Cotton may have been a like-for-like replacement for CG

But given CGs vast Boomers experience and the role he played in 2019, not sure if I would've made the switch if the option was available.

Reply #865281 | Report this post


LV  
Two months ago

But if only allowed to swap for Thybulle, no way would I bring Cotton in for Thybulle. Thybulle has been awesome. Added a new dimension to this team, along with Exum, a great guard/wing punch coming off the bench with run, athleticism and quality D.

Reply #865282 | Report this post


Isaac  
Two months ago

Players scoring 20 PPG in these Olympics: Doncic, Rubio, Hachimura, Nwora, Mills

I don't think Cotton is going to get close to 20 PPG, and especially not off the bench. Thybulle is defending and his scoring contribution is coming at 60% 2P and 56% 3P. Fantastic addition to the team - hopefully the 76ers don't complicate his involvement in the future.

Cotton might have a better case if Mills weren't there and we were picking for position to get an ideal naturalised option, like Tobey with Slovenia.

Reply #865283 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Mojave King want to play for the boomers eventually does he count as a nationalised player given he was here as a kid? Could we have him and one of the other two?

Reply #865285 | Report this post


Musk  
Two months ago

Considering the amount of nuffies on here that admit they don't watch the nba it wasn’t surprising seeing all the brain dead hysteria over wanting cotton over Thybulle. Simply put if you watch Thybulle in the nba you know he is really good he simply doesn’t get starter minutes (still plays 20 a game) but if Simmons wasn’t on the team I’d bet he’d be playing 25+. The surprising thing has been his 3pt shooting which has been a delight. Considering for most fiba is a step below for the nba guys it’s not surprising to see role players in the nba do really well. Whereas the transition of nbl to fiba is much different. Just look at sobey and goulding in the nbl versus fiba.

Whilst cotton would’ve been valuable, he wouldn’t have been starting and considering goorj has very rarely played mills and Goulding together, I suspect he’d a similar approach to cotton in that goorj wouldn’t want too undersized not so good defenders out there. Goulding also fortunately has like 4 inches on cotton so at least height wise he’s not as much a liability as cotton in that regard.

Reply #865286 | Report this post


Senator11  
Two months ago

Hey I'm not saying I'd have Cotton over Thybulle, because I definitely wouldn't, just that it would basically have impacted on our team positively as well, yeah maybe not as much as I think, but we'll never know anyway. I think it's fair to say that Cotton won't get a shot at it anyway considering how good Thybulle has been.

Reply #865288 | Report this post


AngusH  
Two months ago

"AngusH, due to FIBA rules it was a choice, Thybulle or Cotton, not both."

Good point. Forgot he was naturalized actually, thought he had Australian citizenship already.

Reply #865289 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Two months ago

Cotton wouldn't have made the team even if he was eligible, Perth fans god bless them get a little too caught up in the Wildcats and lose their minds.

Forget Thybulle you wouldn't even pick Cotton over Sobey. Sobey is a bit of a utility swiss army knife type player where as Cotton can only do one thing and that's score which he wouldn't be able to do at this level. Just too small and slight up against taller and more athletic defenders.

Remember that thread some Perth fan started trying to say Cotton was on level pegging with Patty Mills? lol

Reply #865290 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two months ago

Why even bring this back up again? Thybulle is a revelation whereas Cotton is undersized for international ball and would get murdered.

Cotton will be great for us in our Asian Cup squad though.

Reply #865291 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Two months ago

Forget Thybulle you wouldn't even pick Cotton over Sobey. Sobey is a bit of a utility swiss army knife type player where as Cotton can only do one thing and that's score which he wouldn't be able to do at this level.

This is one of the dumber takes I've read here lately.
You'd really have needed to be paying zero attention to the past NBL season to not realise that creating for others is a huge strength of Cotton's game.
I would have him in the Boomers in a heartbeat.

Reply #865292 | Report this post


JT  
Two months ago

I suppose that it's an either/or argument, it’s a shame that Cotton has to be derided to big up Thybulle. He could have been tremendous value to us as a scoring spark plug that we currently lack.

Reply #865294 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Mills n cotton are the same size numb nuts.

Reply #865295 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two months ago

Mills made it in the NBA despite his size, Cotton did not.

Reply #865298 | Report this post


Crackers65  
Two months ago

As good as Cotton is I feel he would have struggled here with a completely different system. Every play would not have been for him and bigger and just as quick guards would have troubled him. Matisse for parliament, minister
of defence.

Reply #865302 | Report this post


Crackers65  
Two months ago

As good as Cotton is I feel he would have struggled here with a completely different system. Every play would not have been for him and bigger and just as quick guards would have troubled him. Matisse for parliament, minister
of defence.

Reply #865303 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Win-win, both fantastic. Thyabulle has been a beast though.

Reply #865313 | Report this post


ME  
Two months ago

Thybulle has been one of the most important players on this team, and has consistently made big defensive plays right when we needed them. I really don't think there is any debate to be had. When it comes to fit in this team, Thybulle is like a glove. Thybulle all day.

Reply #865317 | Report this post


Perth fan.  
Two months ago

Would pick Thybulle.
Still hope to see Cotton represent Australia one day even if it is in qualifiers only.
No more Cadee etc.

Reply #865319 | Report this post


twenty four  
Two months ago

Perth fans are the best.

Also, haven't we established that Thybulle was a dual citizen as a kid, hence it was never going to be one or the other?

Reply #865325 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

So "twenty four" are you suggesting we could have both?

Reply #865330 | Report this post


threeball  
Two months ago

No, it has been reported multiple times and confirmed by Goorj that we could only select one naturalised player.

I'm a Perth fan and I saw it as a no brainer from the beginning - Matisse over Cotton.

Thybulle moves the needle for this team. The Boomers have never had the athleticism and defensive prowess of a player like that. He (and Exum and Green) adds an entirely different wrinkle to the team that is enough to finally get us that medal.

Cotton was always going to be a great back-up for Patty in terms of ball handling and shooting.

The argument is more about Cotton over Sobey - and Bryce has shown a superior ability at distributing for others, whereas Sobey has looked shaky running the point.

I look forward to seeing Cotton suit up for the Boomers in the Asia Cup and other tournaments where the naturalised player slot is open. But for the foreseeable future, that spot is earmarked for Thybulle.

Reply #865333 | Report this post


KET  
Two months ago

I agree with the above ^

I'm interested in what a full Paris 2024 team could look like.

Biggest question in a way is who do we have that is a knockdown shooter to replace Ingles? Xavier cooks that guy?

Who replaces pattys shooting? DJ vasilijevic?

Who replaces Baynes? Humphries?

Athleticism we have good options: Green, Matisse, Exum etc

Passing and length we have Simmons (if he ever commits lol), Giddey

We would be content with Landale, Kay, Reath as three of our bigs.

What does Dyson Daniels offer?

Reply #865336 | Report this post


twenty four  
Two months ago

threeball, the question is whether Matisse would count as a naturalised player, not whether we could have multiple. The only evidence I've come across is that he wouldn't.

Reply #865337 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two months ago

twenty four it has already been established that Thybulle is occupying the naturalised spot. We can't have both.

Reply #865338 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

We get much better on d and worse on o in 24

6'11 Simmons 28
6'0 Mills(c) 35
6’6 Thybulle 27
6’9 Kay 31
6’11 Landale 29

6’6 Exum 29
6’6 Daniels 21
6’6 Green 24
6’8 White 27
6’11 Humphries 26

6’9 Giddey 22
6’10-7’0 Maker or Reath or Magnay or Froling or Hunter

Other possibles? Cooks, Vasljevic, travers, wmw etc

Reply #865339 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Mills will be the only guy fit enough at 35 in 24
ingles will be 36, Baynes 37, Goulding 35, Sobey 33, Delly 33

Reply #865340 | Report this post


rjd  
Two months ago

It has been suggested that BA or FIBA confirmed Thybulle takes one of the naturalised spots. This still seems very odd to me, that Thybulle obtained Australian citizenship while living in the US, about a decade after he last set foot in the country.

Reply #865341 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

The one thing we lack is a second elite shooter, Vasljevic 6'3 and poor defender.

The hope is others improve outside shot and king comes good or proctor develops quickly.

Reply #865342 | Report this post


loungefly  
Two months ago

Ingles moves like a sloth and never jumps so it wouldn't be hard for him to be there until next Olympics at least? Would be a nice punch off the bench.

If Exum can get on a court for more than 10 games a season his ballhandling and decision making will improve/sharpen up so he can replace Delly just fine and as good as Landale and Kay have been these last two games without Baynes show what he does just being that big solid body in the key, altering shots/making guys double think about driving on him, getting those rebounds/tap outs on D

Reply #865346 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

It's crystal clear that ingles will not make 24, another 3 years on slo mo and he will be no go.

Reply #865347 | Report this post


KET  
Two months ago

I don't think Mills will be in Paris 2024

Reply #865348 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Mills and ingles will still be in the nba till the end of 2023 so they'll make 2024 as they won’t drop off by that much in a year. Ingles however will definitely be a backup by that point and mills might start just out of sheer lack of pure scoring options.

Reply #865349 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Mills will be, ingles won't

Reply #865350 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Two months ago

I agree I think it's almost a certainty that Patty will be there at the next Olympics, it's only 3 years away not the usual four and he would then equal Gaze's record of being a five time Olympian. Plus you know Patty would accept any role on the team, he probably won't be starter level then but a nice veteran scoring punch off the bench.

Ingles doesn't look like he's got much left in him to be honest.

Reply #865354 | Report this post


threeball  
Two months ago

Like it seems with these things, it all was meant to be anyway. Cotton not eligible in time, then getting injured.

I read it was only it Feb that BA formally invited Thybulle to be a part of the Australian team.

And he said yes, despite moving back to the States in 2005 - which makes him a legend in my eyes.

Reply #865356 | Report this post


Senator11  
Two months ago

I wouldn't discount Ingles going around again, even if it's off the bench, still has playmaking ability to offer and hitting the odd 3, plus the leadership from him is still huge.

Reply #865361 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Thybulle would be chosen over Cotton.
People expecting an elite NBL scorer to be the same vs better defenders have to be realistic.

Cotton might be a spark plug off the bench to back up Mills maybe but starting or 20ppg? Comeon....

For 2024 I expect Mills makes it.
He'll be 35 going on 36.
I could see him as a spark plug off the bench. FIBA rules suit him. He'll lose a step but still rotation worth imo

Giddey. Exum. Delladova
Green. Mills
Thybulle. Daniels
Simmons Cooks
M.Maker. Landale. Kay

Is my squad. If Ben doesn't come along. Then Broekhoff steps into the squad.

Reply #865363 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Delly, cmon dude.
Makur ain't no center.
And Broekhoff lol.

Reply #865364 | Report this post


Senator11  
Two months ago

If Broekhoff made himself available he probably would have had Gouldings spot I'd say.

Reply #865382 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Doubt it.

Reply #865384 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Two months ago

Nah, Broekhoff had too bad a season to be in genuine consideration.

Reply #865386 | Report this post


Senator11  
Two months ago

He's always lit it up for Australia though, Boomers environment might have reinvigorated his confidence and guess it would have come down to how well he trained. I'd presume he's a bit taller than Goulding as well? Goulding looks quite undersized when he's out there, harder to get his shot off and doesn't have the same capacity to create his own shot like Mills does.

Reply #865400 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

He'll be 34 and is already slow and not great on defense.

Reply #865401 | Report this post


rjd  
Two months ago

"Ingles doesn't look like he's got much left in him to be honest."

Ingles has never relied on speed and athleticism. Players with skills and IQ can extend their careers longer. Ingles has a habit of under-performing with the Boomers in recent tournaments, but really mostly in shooting. I wouldn't be surprised if Ingles came off the bench in 2024. He's a team leader.

Reply #865407 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Delly & Broekhoff will only be 33 in 24.

Still very playable ages.
Both have had down years due to injury and mental health issues. But if that's fixed I see them there. Broekhoff historically gas been ahead of Goulding in the rotation & is younger than Goulding.

But until better players step up. I don't see how they don't make it.

Maker is odds on to to make it. Imo
PS this Maker if you haven't heard.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makur_Maker

If you have players you think will be chosen ahead of those 3 please make them.

Reply #865419 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago


Makur weighs nothing, he's a 4 man.

Reply #865420 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Makur is 107kgs
And 20 years old.
Who knows what he will weigh in 3 years.

You're getting your Makers confused.

Reply #865431 | Report this post


ME  
Two months ago

I think you'll see Mills get another go-around, even as a scorer off of the bench. I think Delly has seen his last Olympics. His play has regressed and I just don't really see it coming back. He's now basically Damien Martin. That's not a bad thing, but you'd hope that we have better options at the point by 2024. If Delly is anything but a third string point guard by then I think we'd have to be concerned with our point guard stocks.

Ingles might get another go around. He's smart and patient with the ball and until someone of his size comes through who makes the decisions with the ball that he does, I expect he'll probably come off the bench for some minutes.

Aron Baynes I feel is one of the more unlikely ones to go again. He's become a bit injury prone and he'll be getting on in years. Could be an option for back up minutes at center but it will be more due to a lack of options much like with Delly.


Names you'll likely see next Olympics - Jock Landale, Isaac Humphries, Thon Maker, Dyson Daniels, Josh Green, Dante Exum, Mattisse Thybulle, Nick Kay, Josh Giddey.

Then there would surely be a bunch of kids that are unknown now that jump up out at us before then.

I think the Boomers will remain in a pretty strong position moving forward. You could almost run bakck this current Olympic team, add a few pieces and just change the size of roles.

Reply #865434 | Report this post


ME  
Two months ago

When you look at the age of Spain it's definitely possible that our core goes around one more time. But what is promising is we seem to be establishing a new core in this Olympics that are coming to really value what it is to be a Boomer. Future is bright. I expect a lot of the holes we see in the team right now to sure up in the next 3 years.

Reply #865443 | Report this post


LV  
Two months ago

For 2023 and 2024, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the 2021 team going around again with possible changes being

Giddey in for Sobey

Simmons in for Delly (but let's be honest, probably won't happen)

If Baynes is done then Humphries would be a decent replacement

Someone to replace CG43 who turns 35 in 2023?

But otherwise the others I expect will return- Landale, Kay, Reath in front court. Thybulle, Exum, Green wings/ guards and I'd be expecting Patty and Ingles will still have some in the tank. If they've declined somewhat hopefully return for culture and familiarity, leadership.

But 2 years is a long time. You never know who will emerge, decline, or in some cases not quite progress as you'd hoped

Reply #865448 | Report this post


Hakeem Mills  
Two months ago

I like when we just play one Centre tbh.

Esp if Simmons joins the team.
But also with Thybulle on and small ball you see the movement & defence is so much better.


(Though I wasn't for 3 of Delly Mills Exum Goulding Sobey on at the same time. )

Reply #865461 | Report this post


rjd  
Two months ago

The fewer of our ball-handlers and decision-makers that seem likely in 2024, the more I think the Giddey selection in the Games would've made so much sense. If Delly is out, and Ingles is out or limited minutes, we need more, or at least one, smart floor general. I don't see Exum as that. Apart from being injury prone, he doesn't consistently make good decisions to involve others. Our floor general of the future looks to be Giddey. While Sobey hasn't just been an insurance option, he's received meaningful minutes, I still wonder if Giddey could've done much less in those minutes. Sobey could be seen as an insurance scoring weapon if one of our scorers went down (let's face it, we have just one, Mills), but seeing Sobey play at this level, I don't really see it. Let's hope Giddey makes himself available for as many Boomers games as possible, including any qualification windows that doesn't clash with NBA.

On topic, Cotton would've only played as a backup for Mills. That's 5, 10, maybe 15 minutes a game. Thybulle has been incredible, defensively outstanding, and has the potential to be in this team for many years to come. Thybulle all the way.

Reply #865462 | Report this post


D2.0  
Two months ago

The question I have never been able to answer, is how this even came about?
Thybulle was here as a child, but apparently did not naturalize?

And yet when living in America with no apparent connection to Australia, he apparently somehow got citizenship?

It's bizarre, when you consider that Moneke could not qualify

Reply #865474 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I think you could make a strong case for Cotton if this team had Simmons on it and not Mills.

With Mills on this team though and no Ben, Thybulle has been an amazing fit. I've thoroughly enjoyed watching him as a Boomer and getting to know more about him. Quickly becoming one if my favourite players.

Personally think Cotton would have done very well on the Boomers, would have been great to see what he could do.

Real shame we can't take both of them.

Reply #865475 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

D2.0- Thybulle had a Australian passport which allowed this to happen.

Reply #865478 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

I predict not many of the Old Guard make it to the next Olympics, mainly due to all the injurys (chair shots) they will receive during the Thrilla in Manila 2 at the 23 WC.

Reply #865502 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

"Players scoring 20 PPG in these Olympics: Doncic, Rubio, Hachimura, Nwora, Mills

I don't think Cotton is going to get close to 20 PPG"


Corey Webster has scored 20ppg at a major tournament. Bryce unquestionably has the ability to do it if given the opportunity to get looks.

But in terms of what this team already has in the backcourt - Mills, Delly, Exum, Goulding - the need is far greater for Thybulle as he brings a new dimension to the team.

Reply #865534 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

And all those players are probably playing 30+ mins a game. Cotton off the bench is never playing that volume of minutes.

Reply #865535 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Webster also did that for a team that was never a medal contender at a tournament that wasn't the olympics. Sure if we just said "hey bryce you’re gonna play 30+ minutes and have the offence revolve around you" then sure he could average 20 but we ain’t a medal contender by any means.

Reply #865536 | Report this post


KET  
Two months ago

Everyone be nice when Thybulles threes don't drop

In the absence of having cotton, who’s our volume scorer?

Need a few guys - we all see what teams do against Mills to shut him down, and Mills is a damn Fiba freak and still gets the toughest of baskets.

Who is it likely be next time around?

Reply #865538 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two months ago

Even if Thybulle misses all his next threes his defence is still elite and tbh he's already by far surpassed expectations in regards to his overall performance but especially his shooting.

Reply #865539 | Report this post


threeball  
Two months ago

According to Pick and Roll, Matisse got his citizenship in 2005, but it is not clear whether it was before or after they left for the US. Another article by the SMH states that Thybulle's father Greg ensured his son got an Australian passport before they returned to America.

Not an expert in this area but my reading of this is that Matisse secured his naturalisation before he left.

Reply #865547 | Report this post


koberulz  
Two months ago

If that was true, he wouldn't count as a naturalised player for FIBA purposes, and yet he does.

Reply #865568 | Report this post


threeball  
Two months ago

Well - at the end of the day FIBA says he is a naturalised player, BA has accepted this and Goorj was quoted as saying that due to that, he could only pick one of Cotton or Matisse. Not sure where else we can from there.

From a legal point of view, he wasn't born here, so he's not a citizen by birth. Again, maybe an immigration lawyer can confirm this but the only other status to attaining citizenship is to be naturalised.

Reply #865574 | Report this post


Chairman Of The Bored  
Two months ago

The sooner people just forget about names like Simmons and Cambage with regards to Australian teams the better. The players that are actually dying to represent their country will always make themselves available and give you 100%. Sure, there are some big guns with elite talent that are eligible to play for us, but all the will they/won't they, and their attitudes if they do rock up...is that going to help progress the system into the future, or just maybe help us win a couple of games in the now?
I think the Patrick Mills approach of building a sustainable Boomers Culture for the future is more likely to lead to sustained success than begging a distracted Ben Simmons to suit up.

Reply #865581 | Report this post


Hakeem Mills  
Two months ago

Thybulle got his passport before turning 16 hence is not naturalised.

Naturalized players
Foreign-born players with bloodline connection with the country they want to represent must prove their legal nationality through a passport obtained before turning age 16, regardless of any local laws that deem that nationality as having existed before that time. Players who obtained their passport afterwards can still play but they would be considered as "naturalized" players by FIBA rather than as a local. FIBA allows one naturalized player to be on the roster of a national team per game.

Reply #865719 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Two months ago

The facts don't match up but BA confirmed he does take the one naturalised spot.

Frustrating.

Reply #865722 | Report this post




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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 2:45 pm, Thu 21 Oct 2021 | Posts: 902,381 | Last 7 days: 842