Anonymous
Last month

Junior Basketball - what would you change?

The COVID hiatus provides a great opportunity to reflect on how we can do things differently.

As a VJBL Dad I'd love to see a shorter season, more focus on skill acquisition and development, players repping the association where they play domestically and no Sunday training.

Interested to hear others thoughts on what they would change about junior basketball when we return. Discuss!

Topic #49173 | Report this topic


!  
Earlier this month

train less = drop in skills etc.
Any season needs to be balanced and fair i.e. 1 home, 1 away game between teams.
Unless you play each other once and have a couple more tournament weekends.
If grading is shortened you would get team imbalances.
Biggest thing I've noticed is teams not travelling / playing interstate is missing the opportunity to be challenged to another level. (not much can be done about that).


Reply #869483 | Report this post


Anon  
Earlier this month

You want priority placed on skill development but no Sunday training. So your ok with 2 midweeks.?
Playing for your local association only stifles development.

Grading is long but the only fair path with clear lines to where you end up. Previously you weren't given the same clear paths

As an ex coach I would like to see less teams per association.
12 teams in VC
10 in Metro 1 2 and 3
10 in remaining regional zones

Max 6 teams per association per age at 12, 14 16,
Max 3 teams at 18’s.

I’d love to see a tournament like March madness over 2 weekends, where you rank the top 64 teams based on standings at the half way mark where 1 plays 64 2 plays 63 in a knockout elimination to decide a winner.

Reply #869485 | Report this post


Kero  
Earlier this month

In SA grading to be only your age group.
Do away with first and second years.

Reply #869491 | Report this post


Scout  
Earlier this month

The attitude of parents - especially to refs

Reply #869492 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

"You want priority placed on skill development but no Sunday training. So your ok with 2 midweeks.?"

Fine with two midweek sessions - Find the Sunday training silly when Associations know so many boys play footy.





Reply #869494 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

"You want priority placed on skill development but no Sunday training. So your ok with 2 midweeks.?"

Fine with two midweek sessions - Find the Sunday training silly when Associations know so many boys play footy.





Reply #869495 | Report this post


Coach_A  
Earlier this month

Move Rep to Saturdays and Domestic to Fridays. Expecting junior athletes to perform at their peak straight after a full week of school is nonsensical. Particularly the older age groups who end up having 9:40pm tip offs.
Domestic comps involving only local commuting would make way more sense on Fridays. Less stress on working families too.

Shorter grading phase - more emphasis on the actual season.

Less teams per age groups. One VJBL association has had up to 17 teams in 14s. 17! Past the 5s, teams are actually told to source their own coach and training venues.

More opportunities for additional development subsidised by the associations / BV.

More focus on development at training vs obsessing over plays esp in U12/14s.





Reply #869501 | Report this post


Truth  
Earlier this month

Stricter monitoring of teams playing a zone in younger year levels. Harsher penalties for coaches and clubs who do it regularly.

No trap defences allowed until U16's. Man to man defence only. It's not about how clever the coach can be, it's about developing players to reach their full potential.

Far less emphasis on winning in State representative competitions, especially below U18's. Make it round robin only. No finals, no gold medal winner. Maybe then coaches will pick players based on longer term development, not on winning purely to pad their CV.

Reply #869502 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Just give everyone a medal and save the cost and don't play at all.

Kids need to learn to lose and win.

Reply #869507 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

The ridiculous "year you were born" in juniors which gives kids born in Jan Feb a huge advantage.
Talent ID is basically “you're big you’re tall you’re in”
How’s that fair for a kid born in December 05 going up against a kid born in January 03????
That’s nearly 2 years difference!
Not only unfair but dangerous.
No amount of spin can justify it.

Reply #869510 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

What is the rationale for VJBL age groups spanning two years? Have never understood, most sports I know of create age groups based on a single year. Is it the same in all states?

An alternative would be, for example, instead of having six teams per age group under this format, kids play u12,13,14,15,16 etc and clubs field three teams in each age group.

What are the pros and cons?

Reply #869515 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Genuine question because Im unsure, do other australian states do 11's, 12',s 13's, 14's, 15's, etc?

Reply #869519 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Less focus on kids who are big because they have grown early - dumbest thing in u12/14 basketball. Ruins skill base of those kids (forced to play big man roll and don't develop ball handling, even though they may not even get to 6 foot).

Reply #869528 | Report this post


Anon  
Earlier this month

Agree that it should not be every 2 years. I never understood this and why it never seems to be questioned. The solution is to have more age groups 12,13,14...etc and less divisions. The same amount of kids would play (maybe more?) and it would lessen the huge physical disadvantage some kids have.

Reply #869529 | Report this post


big_bird  
Earlier this month

WA also has U/12, U/14, U/16, U/18

Reply #869530 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Earlier this month

"I'd love to see a shorter season, more focus on skill acquisition and development, players repping the association where they play domestically and no Sunday training."

As a coach in the VJBL. I would like to see a slightly [3 - 4 fewer week] shorter grading phase. Possibly utilising some weekend tournaments to get through the number of games to allow the full grading to occur, as I believe it is a fantastic grading process. Unfortunately, it just takes a bit too long.

Skills acquisition is correlated to the amount of training time. As a coach I utilise the Sunday training sessions as skills acquisition and the midweek training session as game preparation. I would like to see some additional training midweek. Unfortunately I'm aware of limitations on court availability which prevents the additional midweek training. But it would be nice.

Representing the association where you play domestically - this is a tricky one. it initially sounds quite easy, but, there are more players who seek to play representative ball than there are positions in some associations. Consequently and rightly so, parents seek opportunities for their children in other associations but keep their friendship groups in the domestic competitions. In the eastern suburbs of Melbourne there is a very high density of associations that field representative teams and travel between the associations is not particularly difficult. There is a propensity for parents to association shop looking for where their child will make the higher team.

Reply #869537 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

@Relax Coach

My personal objection to the Sunday session is that it clashes with footy and the Associations know this. I find it silly. Happy to go with two mid-week rep sessions but that should be the max.....throw in domestic training and games plus commitments to other sports and the stress on kids bodies starts to become a concern.

Playing rep for your domestic association is interesting. We have been on both sides of this one.....vastly prefer being at an association where kids have to play domestic to play rep. It builds a much better connection between families and the Association and encourages the Association to focus on developing on what they have. At clubs where domestic isn't mandatory it feels much more transactional, you are just a number and there is no real care (our experience anyway).New coach brings in his top kid or kids from the Association he left and displaces somebody...happens all the time and very unsettling for the kids who aren't superstars. Its enough of a rollercoaster without adding this into the mix.

So move to a different Association but move domestic team as well. If that means leaving behind a friendship based team then so be it....can't have everything.

Reply #869538 | Report this post


RobT  
Earlier this month

Doesn't playing each age-group double everything?

In Qld, I believe that double-year age-groups were intro'ed cos not enough kids in smaller assocs(?).

Reply #869544 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

@RobT
Depends how its handled but my assumption would be that you go from say 6 teams per age group to 3 per age group so total number of teams remains the same.

Reply #869545 | Report this post


RobT  
Earlier this month

OK. Makes sense!

Reply #869547 | Report this post


!  
Earlier this month

big clubs could field teams in every year U10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17 etc but some clubs would struggle to field a full team of a certain year and need that 2 year bracket to get enough players.

Reply #869559 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Earlier this month

Anon #538

For many years the Hawthorn association allowed unlimited rep players in its top domestic grades. This often resulted in one-sided games against teams without rep players, embarrassing training sessions basically. Usually the same two or three clubs had the rep players and fought out the finals, and God help the rest of the clubs.
In the last few years they brought in caps on the number of current or former reps per team, which evened things up a bit.

Personally, I'd prefer rep to be kept for the best and most competitive players and coaches, and domestic kept for those who want to develop but aren’t rep players. The grey area would be if rep comps were to be reduced to fewer grades with only the best 10 or 12 teams, because then you need to find a place for those rep players who miss out in a particular season. I guess you’d need to allow former rep players to play domestic, just to keep them in the game.

Reply #869567 | Report this post


!  
Earlier this month

why not have some 3 v 3

Reply #869572 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

"big clubs could field teams in every year U10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17 etc but some clubs would struggle to field a full team of a certain year and need that 2 year bracket to get enough players."

If a club can't field even a single team as described above.....maybe they need to look at merging with other smaller, nearby associations.

Think some consolidation of associations would make sense but of course more Associations means more teams and more dollars so that will never happen.

Reply #869579 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

This is why parents done run sports. But they all think they have all the answers.

But there are no answers just problems.

Sunday clashes with Footy. So does mid-week. Those same footy teams train mid-week so you will never avoid clashes. Best to talk to your Club early to try and avoid time clashes because same day clashes will always happen. Every sport expects 2-3 days a week from a kid. That's just how it works.

Single year brackets destroys quality. Same kids playing against the same kids every single year. And many kids will be out of their depth as they can't compete with the first 2-3 kids in that single year.

These things have been discussed and considered for 50 years. There's no perfect solution but there's certainly none significantly better than what we have.

Reply #869585 | Report this post


Anon  
Earlier this month

Yeah that single year age group really seems to be destroying other sports like AFL's development and participation.

Reply #869587 | Report this post


sixtiesrockstar  
Earlier this month

Could definitely look at getting rid of two year age groups especially for the boys as they have more than enough numbers. Girls numbers can be a bit scratchy at clubs from year to year and taper off once they hit 16's. Footy clubs used to have 2 year age groups many years ago u13, u15, u17. Clubs basically only had 1 team per age group. Then Auskick came along and all of a sudden clubs had to start fielding multiple teams in single age groups.
Could morph into a much better system than 2 year ages after couple of seasons.
Much easier to do gradings and divisions once going.
Could turn Friday Nights into a div1 only night which is better than what bsa were going for with the ML and DL system.
Play 12's and 13's at same venue while the 14's and 15's play at the alternate venue.

Reply #869604 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Something perhaps like Europe where if a kid is good enough and wants to then they can play in older age groups.

Reply #869605 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

In regards to vjbl I mean ^

Reply #869606 | Report this post


sixtiesrockstar  
Earlier this month

By having single age groups it gives an opportunity to put kids up another age if they are dominating. At the moment their is no way you are going to put up a 2nd year u14 who is dominating into u16 as the gap to 2nd year kids in 16's is big

Reply #869607 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

So to reward a kid that's dominating his own age you move him away from team to older kids where he may struggle. Sure, big kids may dominate simply because of size, but then that's the only reason. Argument is they would have to learn more skills but how many would just become discouraged and go and play footy. As long as it's kids and families decision, yes, but if it's mandatory it's not fair.

Reply #869635 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Earlier this month

Two-year age groups versus single-year age groups.

Effectively in the larger associations, the first and second teams are predominantly top age players and competing in VC or VC reserve. Now on occasion, there are some exceptionally talented bottom age players who play in the top team but for the most, it is normally top age players in the first and some bottom age players in the seconds and a major of bottom age players in the 3rd and 4th teams. Effectively creating the single-year experience in most cases already.

This actually does provide the opportunity for a bottom age player to play in a higher competition with the top age players within an age group. And if the coaches are mature enough it provides good flexibility to balance teams according to their level of player development.

In my opinion, the two year age grouping with top age and bottom age players provides flexibility and development opportunities don't really see this as broken and don't see a need for it to change

Reply #869639 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

@Relax Coach

Good post, think I agree.

Up to clubs and coaches to have a good plan re bottom age players to ensure the maximum
Blend of individual development and team building.

Reply #869641 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

@Relax Coach

Good post, think I agree.

Up to clubs and coaches to have a good plan re bottom age players to ensure the maximum
Blend of individual development and team building.

Reply #869642 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Relax Coach obviously has kids born in January.

Reply #869644 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Not saying 1 year age groups is the answer
Just whatever age you are at the designated start of any summer/winter season or tournament is the grade you play
Ie if your 15 at on that date, you play U/16s and so on
That's why it’s called UNDER...because you are UNDER 16 years old, pretty simple.
Would even out a lot of disadvantage that players born late in the year currently deal with
If you looked at age profiles in National/ International junior teams you would find a huge percentage are born earlier in the year.
It’s laziness from BA and state bodies…easier to look at year born instead of date and year born.

Reply #869648 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Interestingly the age profile for senior Boomers is actually totally skewed to those born in second half of the year, suggesting it does even itself out over time - https://australia.basketball/blog/ba_player_team/boomers/ . That said, for kids born in the second half of the year I'm sure it's bloody frustrating having to wait for that to happen.

I think the point about the two year groupings offering flexibility and options based on players skill and physical development is a good one. Associations can use team selection to essentially create the same outcome as having a 12 month grouping whilst giving more advanced players the opportunity to play "up" as bottom agers and then potentially "dominate" as top agers.....meaning they are getting a range of experiences as opposed to dominating every year.

Reply #869650 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

On thing that has been playing on my mind is that basketball is the sport most impacted by lockdowns due to being a contact, indoor sport. First to go and last to come back and I'm not sure we can assume that all will return to normal for community sport and basketball in particular in the post-80% vaccination world.

If was BA, BV, VJBL or Associations.....I'd be considering this, trying to get an understanding from government re the likelihood of indoor sport being viable or non-viable in that world and considering how to work around that. One option might be the construction of courts that are protected from the elements but fall just on the right side of being construed as outdoor.

It concerns me that the sports governing bodies seem resigned to simply moving in and out of competition as restrictions allow.....where is the innovative, creative thinking to try to adapt and future proof (at least somewhat) and ensure some continuity? Huge chunks of development time lost in VIC over the last two years....

Reply #869665 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Get rid of permission to train form!
The clubs don't own the players. Why do you need permission.
Then to do get a clearance you need to pay an admin fee which is ridiculous.

Reply #869678 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

By having single year comps doesn't this in fact always mean those born late in the year are at a disadvantage?

The two year brackets mean every second year they aren't the youngest in the age group.

A single year bracket means they're always the youngest.

Reply #869681 | Report this post


Relax Coach  
Earlier this month

Just for clarity and because @644 suggests I may lack knowledge or have some form of unconscious bias.

I have coached junior basketball for nearly 20 years. my kids have both played from Primary school, local domestic, and VJBL regional through to VC. One still plays in Big V at senior champ level. As far as the end of the years they were born, one was in February the other is November.

I would say I'm reasonably experienced to have a qualified opinion.

Is there an advantage for a child born early in the year in junior sport? absolutely, both in body and mental maturity. Especially at the lower age groups of under 12 and 14's.

In my opinion, dividing the age group into yearly increments would not reduce the 12-month maturity advantage evident in young age groups.

It may in fact create greater problems particularly when parents start requesting their child plays up an age group thereby diminishing the skill level and competition level of the total age group.

Reply #869703 | Report this post


Doggr  
Earlier this month

Having a shot clock in VC and VJBL1 with 24 seconds. I'd have a 30 second shot clock in all the other grades

Reply #869836 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Last week

Looks like domestic might start up in November but it will be tough to get Rep going under the usual format while the density quotients and patron caps apply

Time for the powers to be to get a little bit more creative, a little bit more assertive and make it happen!

Reply #871647 | Report this post




You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.



Close ads
Beam Orders - a quick, simple order and payments site for your business.
Punch - insightful time tracking
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 8:09 am, Tue 28 Sep 2021 | Posts: 899,831 | Last 7 days: 437