Truth
Earlier this month

Changes to SA junior Basketball schedule

Some fascinating news out over the last few days about changes Basketball SA are making to the structure of basketball for the next 4 years.

From what I understand, instead of the normal cycle of Summer and Winter seasons, the following will be the case:

Oct-Dec: Club Trials, Interclub games, preseason. So basically an extended preseason, with some scratch matches and no competition.

Feb-Apr: Grading tournaments. Games begin, but purely for grading. What purpose does this serve for Div 1 teams?

May-June: The actual season. Although it also says the season is March to August, so not sure what is going on there. I suspect Feb-March is grading, then late March to August is the season proper.

July - Sept: Basically nothing. No club basketball. 3 on 3 is offered sure, but that's it??? A few carnivals perhaps? I suspect it is actually early August through to end of September. So one to two months off.

Se effectively, from sometime in August, through to February, there will be no basketball competition.

I'm interested to hear what people think of this set up, especially from other states. How does it compare? How would your state like this?

Topic #49182 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Great. Remove bsa competitions and programs from distracting from player development and developing their love for the game. Clubs and private providers to fill the void who deliver more client focussed services with better outcomes for players and families than BSA can.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

ACBA and all their associated entities must be rubbing hands togethee.

Reply #869741 | Report this post


!  
Earlier this month

happy to give it a try and have better knowledge of what it's like in 2 years. Will get down to club level functioning to ensure on court levels are maintained during the break. I like the idea of some extra local tournament weekends (not the 3v3 tournaments) and having some extra weekends free.

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!  
Earlier this month

re above - I'm ok with 3v3 tourney weekends but like the idea of some extra 5v5 "usual" tourney type weekends.
Country players will be playing in their main local season.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Speak to the kids. Most want to play 5v5 not 3v3. It just shows how out of touch people are running basketball

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Anon  
Earlier this month

Will push some clubs to lift their game in terms of development for their players and coaches or risk being left behind.
Like the idea there is a break in the season as it does fill like the season never ends.
Interested to see what clubs come up with now they have 5-6 months open in their calendar.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Maybe the clubs should run basketball for the full year

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Truth  
Earlier this month

On the positive side, it gives clubs a chance to really focus on player development, without the 'pressure' of winning games.

I am curious though as to why the main season is across winter and not in line with the NBL season. I wonder if this new approach will see even more kids leave basketball for football? If there is basically no competition across summer and then the full competition conflicts with Football season, they might not play at all.

Could be a very risky move.

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!  
Earlier this month

if this loses a player to another sport - they would have gone anyway - there will be basketball on but not District games during the off season.

The person asking about Div 1 players and a grading season - may see more competitive teams in the right grades. I think wrong grading causes more juniors to leave the sport rather than having an "off" season schedule.

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!  
Earlier this month

Poster - "Truth" Reply #869770 - the main season at that time is in alignment with all National Tournaments / Championships.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

! do you work for BSA?

It is easy to state things but it is more difficult to state things with the knowledge of all parents and players. There are a lot of unhappy parents with this announcement

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!  
Earlier this month

1)no i don't - 2) please state facts about unhappiness ? I understand there will still be trainings and games (depending on the club how that takes shape). It's still happening - just in a different structure.

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NewHoopz  
Earlier this month

To the OP
The dates you mentioned are not right

Main season is March - August

Grading tournament is in Feb

Off season is September- Jan

So only one season per year. Clubs might have to re-think fee structure or provide good quality academy training from Sept onward

Reply #869807 | Report this post


Anon  
Earlier this month

7 months of games and five months of trials, skirmishes, club development and 3 on 3.

Possible carnivals aside that's a lot less games for kids.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

BSA has changed this a bit now stating a typo-wow! Or maybe a change of heart!

Reply #869819 | Report this post


!  
Earlier this month

so previous summer season was usually around 11 games - there will be a grading comp - so some games them replacing there.
And them some more tournaments so you could do 2 x weekend tourneys and get 8 games in there. Winter (main) season stays the same - will have State Champs, Norwood tourney, Classics - so all the usual games there (COVID allowing. There is nothing stopping the clubs having an interclub weekend of games i.e. Centrals V Woodville on an free weekend - as I understand it - it will be up to the clubs to run that.

I don't think there will be too many less games at all.
Again, depends on your club.

Reply #869823 | Report this post


Truth  
Earlier this month

NewHoopz - thanks for updating the dates. I was trying to go by the announcement from Basketball SA, but they had two sets of dates that didn't seem to align.

Winter and tournaments stays the same - they all existed already. But no games for several months? Could be an issue for some.
I'm sure there will be a way around it though - as some have said, clubs will need to be better and organise things themselves.

I do wonder where this leaves umpires though. Are clubs going to set up their own practice matches and find and pay umpires themselves??

Reply #869827 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

BSA have backtracked on this in the email out today.

There will be two seasons - a grading season (summer) and a main season (winter).

Reply #869829 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Sounds like the outgoing Comp Manager is leaving a mess for the incoming rookie.

Reply #869831 | Report this post


Truth  
Earlier this month

Right....So grading is now a season. ok, sure. In February. What is that, 4 games? Are they playing double headers every weekend? A tournament each weekend so we can make sure to injure as many developing players as possible??

Probably would have been wise for BSA to release the information once it had been fully thought through, and then explained fully, rather than dropping it as a first point in a longer series of changes.

There is no point leaving it to JDO's to let their club know, as we all know that doesn't happen.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Typical BSA having the wrong people making decisions and then having to go back on it once people who know what's going on let them know the issues.

These changes would drive down BSA profitability and therefore their ability to service members. It will dramatically destroy clubs' finances and their ability to provide junior programs. And then NBL1 without going into significant further debt.

If referees aren't working for all that time, those young people will go and get a part-time job and won't be available 3 months later and hence no ref retention nor development.

The only positive for clubs would be that they could now go out and create their own summer league and take the profits, to pay for their stadium training costs.

Finally, this won't change the number of hours most committed player is doing, they will just take the money they spend away from BSA and clubs and put it into private peoples pockets. Hence the goal of low impact periods won't be realised and clubs and BSA will just be worse of financially.

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Anon  
Earlier this month

More I read the less i understand it.
Perhaps the push is to develop the social comps for each club by creating five months of no district basketball games.

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Anthony  
Earlier this month

Yep the more I read it the less I understand it, I actually like the 10 week feb to March summer season then a good long winter season it made better sense than the old split summer season.

But this doesn't five months no basketball competitions...…how do we keep them fit and engaged in sport when all they do is train for five months most will be looking at other sports as a parent that is what I am considering which means basketball might become a secondary sport over winter.

Really not well thought out or rolled out this just opens the door for participants to go to other sports because they rolled out something that basically says we don’t want you between September to January good luck with attrition of participants the minute they go elsewhere they will be lost to the sport.

Reply #869846 | Report this post


!  
Earlier this month

i'm also interested where the discussion is at re size 5 ball for U12s.

Need national conformity here due to classics

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

You're really struggling with this aren't you Truth?

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Who really has any faith and confidence in BSA? Most of their decision making is centred around Sturt, and the way their juniors are going you would be very suspicious this new system just gives them extra time to get out there and poach players.

Reply #869868 | Report this post


Easy As  
Earlier this month

My club president said that there was a group Co silted that had representation from all clubs and BSA that provided feedback as to what they wanted going forward.
BSA then provided multiple options of what the end of this season and the future would look like, and the clubs then voted on their preferred option.
This was then sent to the commission to comment on and offer their input.
So to say this is Sturt driven or another stupid BSA idea is far from the truth.
From what I'm told, the winter season runs from April to end of September.

Reply #869874 | Report this post


NewHoopz  
Earlier this month

Easy as
Agreed, it's nothing to do with Sturt bias

Winter season is March - August

BSA have now edited summer activities
It was a grading tournament in Feb
Now it’s grading comps in either December or Feb or both

The changes are a framework so the details are a work in progress however they have stated that from
September to March there will be bsa run & club run tournament & comps

Tbh footy & Cricket have down time so I think it’s a good move to have one major season & more flexibility on minor activities the rest of the year & it also allows clubs to be more independent imho

Reply #869875 | Report this post


Truth  
Earlier this month

#857 I'm not sure what it is you think I'm struggling with??

I'm not sure about the changes. As usual BSA have failed to properly explain what are very significant changes. The dates aren't clear and as on here, a number of people have heard different dates for different parts of the new seasons.

I can't even say I'm against the changes. They might be good for player development over the long haul. At this stage it is all unclear though. Are the basketball associations trying to push the 3 on 3 concept? Is this a BA directed thing?
Will Church league run through summer? They might end up benefitting a lot.

Yes I believe there was a lot of consultation and the JDO's all had a say. I don't think this is led by any singular club.

It is certainly going to be fascinating. Will be interesting to see if other States do anything like this.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Firstly on the comparison with cricket and football seasons - have you ever played cricket in the rain or football in a heatwave? Basketball lends itself to longer seasons due to playing indoors though I acknowledge some stadiums do leak and some stadiums do not have air conditioning.

Who knows what the truth is regarding consultation and decision making process. You can say you consult but when the communicated solution bears no resemblance to what was "consulted" then is that truly consultation?

But what is the truth is that the initial communication and the apparent back tracking on the season structure has confused the general basketball community and needlessly raised concerns over what is happening

Reply #869879 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Interesting the comments about clubs being involved and how that highlights just how much change there has been on the frontline in SA basketball.

In just 5 years we've gone from a Basketball Adelaide group determined to save basketball from BSA incompetence by taking over competitions to a completely submissive and powerless one.

We've gone from a group of long standing, well informed, progressive JDOs who met and talked regularly to a bunch of underpaid, under engaged, under skilled coaches filling gaps.

Clubs have gone so far backwards in 5 years, in relation to the people running them, no wonder they are going along with this. They all have such internal termoil to try and handle they have no interest in the big picture.

No one can honestly say the presidents and JDOs of 5-10 years ago would be as supportive as the curent lot. The "Clubs" are not what they used to be in this area.

Reply #869890 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Which JDO or presidents were there 5 years ago that aren't there now?

Reply #869895 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

From my recollection the only existing presidents who were presidents in 2017 are from West Sturt and North.

As for JDO's I have no idea but I believe the JDO network back five years was less organised than what it is now.

The other big issue is the turnover within BSA and the Commission. As knowledge is developed it quickly moves on. Quite frankly the people with the experience and longevity within basketball operate within the District Club community. Provided they can see the bigger basketball picture and put club allegiances behind them for a while they are best placed to determine and implement the competition structure.

Reply #869928 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

What the JDOs wanted and what has been announced by BSA is vastly different from what I understand.

Reply #869930 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Eastern and North Presidents are the only 2 that remain from 2016.

Only JDO that remains is Dickel, although moved clubs.

Organised isn't relevant. They were senior basketball people with a long and deep invovlement in grassroots. Dickel was the rookie, even outsider.

Woodville have upgraded, moreso as they were woeful. On the fence re North. Forestville tandem from then together, more engaged than now. Everyone else has gone backwards.

Reply #869932 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

No there has been a change at Eastern in last year or so

Reply #869933 | Report this post


Anon  
Earlier this month

Once the hopefully announce the exact details of what happens in the months without district games it will be easier to see some logic in this.
3x3 games which seems to be being pushed for reasons unknown is not overly popular with the kids
Carnivals - great but if they are out of season they won't be aligned with the district teams so will it be friendship groups
Club development. Again great in theory but if you are not playing games kids will lose interest.

Reply #869940 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Carnivals clash with other sports. Shambles waiting to happen. It's hard enough getting players to commit now given the lack of long weekend for the State Champs/Qualifying Tournament.

3x3 is an Olympic Sport that Australia is way behind most basketball countries in.

My error, didn't realise Eastern had made a change.

By my count that means of the 24 or so Presidents/JDOs 2 reamin from 2016. That's a huge issue. A significant base of knowledge no longer invovled at that level.

Reply #869941 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

3x3 May be an Olympic sport but it's garbage. It’s not basketball. That’s why district kids don’t want to play it.

Reply #869942 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Don't disagree. Just explaining why there's a push by administrators.

Reply #869947 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

I expect because it's in Olympics, powers that be want to establish it, but correct, no-one wants to play. They've been trying for years with all those cash prize tournaments at the beach, best they usually get is some average social players. Never know, could change based on what plan seems like.
Scott Freer at Woodville has done an excellent job on the boys side, was always going to push shit uphill with the girls. North have just looked and listened to hype, state champs were a disaster. And just looking at their social media it seems coaches must fit in with the program of a couple of experts, bad luck if you don't agree. Have to give kudos in their organisation, just seems like a lot of brainwashing going on. Getting rid of Adam Todd just to favour one coach was definitely a bad decision.
I've lost track with Norwood. They sacked Willie, then Rojo, brought in an Nbl1 GM, have they got someone in charge there, or another one of the Family?
Central's seem to change their mind and vision every year as well as personell. When you have Pero as your boys 16 and 18 coordinator, it's either desperate, stupid, or a bit of both. Apparently he makes Rupert take a back seat at his own training. Obviously no-one there remembers his efforts as North's jdo a few years back when they hit rock bottom.
Forestville girls seem to be going well but their boys program is the worst in competition, and doesn't seem to be getting better.
Sturt have taken a tumble from where they once were the gold standard, now they're down with the rest.
The rest have some good talent here and there. But surely gametime is more important than training so much as proposed. How will club's respond in terms of fees? Still costs as much hiring training venues, but no game carrot at the end. Can see kids breaking away and either finding a good social competition and workout with external trainers, rather than pay fees and glorified scrimmages. Rashad, Joey, KB and the other academy style programs will think their Christmas's have come at once.
Maybe it does have some legs in lower grades if they organise the development side of things well, but 1s and 2s should be exempted from this. Most are already getting extra training, and theoretically have the best club coaches. The kids want to play, as evidenced by the whole covid shutdown. If someone is smart, they could organise their own breakaway "superleague" and capitalise on just creating a non affiliated competition on a Friday night. It's really just there for the taking after this genius plan. Sounds like a lot of stadiums will just be sitting there idle.

Reply #869948 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

#928 the Commission have always been the problem. Too busy micromanaging day to day. Not focused on big picture stratergy.

I will agree so many people have been pushed out of BSA its ridiculous. All that history gone with them. The new CEO has downsized the whole organisation so much they're making themselves irrelevant.

Reply #869961 | Report this post


Anon  
Earlier this month

Interesting BSA have not posted any of their details via FB which would allow direct feedback.

Reply #869968 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

BSA have on there website put up an email address for comments or questions. Maybe clubs should point that out if they have unhappy members

Reply #869969 | Report this post


!  
Earlier this month

everyone can speculate or give an opinion but until we have run this for a year or two nobody really knows how it will trend with the masses.

Reply #869971 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Didn't their U18 boys get like 4 boys to move to the NBA program in Canberra last year?

Most of their D1/2 boys teams are in the top 3. NBL1 mens team in the Grand Final. At our club there are constant murmurs of boys and families saying "we are wanting to get into North next season because they are winning and have kids going to high levels". Sure they are not perfect but seems to be the best run program from the outside looking in.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

! That is coming close to the dumbest post I have read for a while. Parents/kids demand what they want from sport. If you don't deliver they move on. To spend two years trying something which appears not popular is flirting with basketball going backwards

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Nice excuse to not play State Champs due to lack of time, but lets have a 4 week finals series.

The BSA Comp Manager finally got his way as he's leaving. 35+ years of history and the Premier Event in the BSA calendar (as BSA called it) is scrapped.

Reply #869984 | Report this post


Anon  
Earlier this month

No State Champs is just bizarre. Kids already missing out on a lot (not as much as other states but still). It warranted one line in the announcement. Meanwhile top 8 makes finals then the kids get five months off.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

No state champs is strange given the length of the finals. I suspect this is due to give as many children games and not just Div1/2 players.

It's a bit rough blaming the past Competitions Manager for this when he was not involved in the decision making process

Reply #869989 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Great idea with no State Champs...Div 1 (and some Div2) have already had a "mini state champs" for Classics Classification earlier in the year. Happy to not see it back. Same teams playing same teams…weird. Back in the day had some merit as teams other than District teams involved…not so now. Time for a rethink on “State Champion Club”

Reply #869991 | Report this post


Kero  
Earlier this month

Less games for kids -yep great idea

Reply #869998 | Report this post


Anonnona  
Earlier this month

3 on 3.. equals 12 on court. V 10.. so in reality maybe great move to get move feet on court..
Faster huge increase in transition action. Shirt forms if all games are seemingly sign of times.
3 on 3 is way of future. Action action and re action..

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Well make a suggestion Kero... State champs is dumb, makes no logical sense to hold in current format. Innovate.

Understand part of the new format is because JDO's and others want less games to about burnout as has been mentioned in many threads on Hoops.

Maybe these decisions have been made with Basketball in SA in mind not short term thinking, another common thread on Hoops…haven’t they actually done what Anon keeps asking for of this forum?

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Whoops meant to say avoid burnout not about burnout

Reply #870009 | Report this post


Kero  
Earlier this month

My suggestion would be to leave State Champs as it is. By the sounds of it we are going to have five months open for other types of carnivals etc. To cancel this years with a few weeks notice does not make sense.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

To change the finals series with a few weeks notice doesn't either. This is an organisation that has no concept of how to run a competition. Or a sport for that matter. Or provide a service to members. Still waiting to see where my $5 per child has gone to better the sport for young girls.

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Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Don't worry because given we are now playing half a year the levy will drop to $2.50!

Who is pushing 3x3 to help fill the down time. Is it BA, BSA or the clubs? And why; because it’s an Olympic sport and is there federal funding to support this focus. To me it’s like the Australian Ballet deciding to focus on breakdancing because it’s now an Olympic sport and maybe there’s money to be had. Just because it’s an Olympic sport doesn’t make it good or what kids want to do!

Reply #870084 | Report this post


Objection  
Earlier this month

Anon why are you & others banging on about 3x3?
All BSA have indicated is that they will have a 3x3 event in November

One event is hardly pushing it for funding ?

3x3 is very different & has its own pathway to International play so I can't see how 3x3 is relevant to the conversation about district comps moving from summer & winter to less summer activity & a longer main season (March - August)

Also I think you will find that many kids around the world love 3x3 so it has its place for sure

It’s not going to replace 5v5

Reply #870093 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

What I'm seeing is a premature, ill thought out announcement then. Get more substance around the announcement rather than upsetting so many

Reply #870095 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

You could be right but nimble, agile approaches to change are not a bad thing in basketball. Get info out fast and get feedback and tweak from there. better than being slowmoving, not willing to adap to feedback and never implementing change.

Dumb ideas mostly but not a bad way to implement change in these modern times.

Reply #870097 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Except BSA removed the link for feedback!!!!

Reply #870098 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

Ask 100 people about comps and you'll get 100 different responses. It's about asking the right people. About researching what works and what doesn't around the country and around the world. How you can't jsut plug in one thing from a system that works and expect it to work in a different state, sport or model. It's about having an understanding of how the local system works (and doesn't work) and building a system from that. Businesses and Unis study and teach this for years. From what I can see BSA are making it up with underskilled personnel as they go.

This is not how anyone would build a competition structure professionally.

This is about responding to complaints and ticking boxes that's all.

3x3 like female participation (in playing, refereeing and coaching) are metrics that are tracked by BA and the ASC that need to be met in order for the sport to receive money. BSA would be the least per member funded state body in the country. Not that they actively try to change that a great deal.

But the 3x3 and female participation are targets set for them to meet to obtain money. That's the reason they have to do what they do.

BSA don't want feedback, they know generally it will be poor. That's why they don't include the right people. They don't want the best system, they want the best system for their pre-determined outcomes.

Reply #870107 | Report this post


anon  
Earlier this month

Sitting down with pen and paper, I'm not sure that the kids will be playing less ball, just a different schedule. Grading season, Feb-April assume same as this year, will be about the same number of games plus a final. Main season May - Sept will be 18 plus finals, so that's about the same as "normal" If State champs must be held, and starting to lean towards the "what's the point or reason" why not at the end of "grading" season for Div 1 and 2 use as the Classification for Classics, as they won't be graded this year, so a mini finals weekend of top 4 teams playing off instead of finals, or even let the Div 1 and 2 teams play against each other?
Jan, probably a good idea to have not too much on, Country and Metro will be at SCC or Country Champs, kick off with Carnival before school goes back, leading into grading season.
Oct-Dec, some imagination and could be some great "carnivals", whether 3x3 or normal and/or a chance for clubs to get organised ready to start all over again?
Looks more like just a change to when things happen not how they happen really??

Reply #870131 | Report this post


Objection  
Earlier this month

Anon it seems you have not read the info released because your dates are wrong

Reply #870145 | Report this post


anon  
Earlier this month

#145 Point one after Competition Framework ?

http://www.basketballsa.com.au/news-and-events/news/new-competition-structure-for-2022

Reply #870149 | Report this post


anon  
Earlier this month

#145 Sorry wrong link... have been advised that the dates / months are wrong and are more inline with my earlier post...I'll see if I can dig out the info...

Reply #870151 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

The fact there are multiple documents with different dates just shows how on the run they're making these decisions. If you think its in consulation with clubs and JDOs you really have way too much faith in BSA. Needs a cleanout, the replacing of the entire office (literally) under the new CEO (some positions multiple times) hasn't worked.

Reply #870152 | Report this post


Objection  
Earlier this month

Anon

The main season is listed as being played March - August, 2022

The first email from BSA said summer grading tournament in Feb 2022. This was then changed to possibly be December & Feb tournament play for the purposes of grading ready for the main season

Reply #870154 | Report this post


Objection  
Earlier this month

Anon

The main season is listed as being played March - August, 2022

The first email from BSA said summer grading tournament in Feb 2022. This was then changed to possibly be December & Feb tournament play for the purposes of grading ready for the main season

Reply #870155 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this month

#152 there was plenty of consultation. But only in the sense that it was lip service with BSA having their agenda prior to the meeting and rolling it out after regardless of the concerns of the clubs.

There is a chance that they get this through because currently there is a weak group of presidents and Basketball Adelaide do have to ability to come together for the greater good and start their own competition and get ride of BSA and their useless club defeating iedas

Reply #870173 | Report this post


Anonny  
Earlier this month

Hey there #173 reckon you might want to talk to the President of your club about how "weak" they have been in this current negotiation (and the whole year basically) ... you might be surprised what has been going on to get this far! Of course if you are passionate about forming a super league...present a fully costed and sustainable business case to the whole 10 presidents and see what they think.

Reply #870178 | Report this post


Anon  
Two weeks ago

Have any clubs or BSA given any indication of what the months of November to February will look like basketball wise?

Reply #871007 | Report this post


Truth  
Two weeks ago

I imagine most clubs are still working out what to do. I know some clubs have started listing trial dates in November. Beyond that, who knows??

Reply #871008 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

Video on Female Participation Strategy

https://fb.watch/7-ye82oJv8/

Reply #871011 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Two weeks ago

So their whole program is about doing girls only things. Which already existed. As typical from BSA a lack of any real detail. Those programs generally are self funded anyway. What a joke.

Reply #871077 | Report this post




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