Last month

The AFL Problem

With former Australian junior representative Luke Jackson a key part of the Demons Premiership last night in Perth, should we as a sport be worried for the increasingly worrying prospect of losing more good juniors to Footy?

Making this even more of a key topic is the fact that the WA Football Commission will move all junior Football games to Sunday's, forcing kids and their respective families to choose between WABL Basketball or playing Footy. A huge couple of years ahead for the sport from a development and participation perspective if we start losing out better male and female prospects to Aussie Rules.

Topic #49247 | Report this topic

Last month

Luke Jackson and the rest.....

Reply #871993 | Report this post

Last month

Oh great the annual let's have a sook about losing player x and y to football.

Reply #871994 | Report this post

Last month

Luke Jackson is nothing new when it comes to basketball era moving to football. You could actually make a full football team on ex VIC players playing AFL.

Reply #871995 | Report this post

Last month

Luke Jackson is a gun footy player and has a chance to be one of the bests he's still so young. Played great last night in the GF.

Curious to know how was his game as a basketball player for anyone who watched him?

Reply #871996 | Report this post

Last month

Jackson played WABL and SBL for Willetton Tigers. Was also good at school and nationals level

Reply #871997 | Report this post

Last month

Did you know Scott Pendlebury has a basketball background? And that he gave up his AIS spot that eventually went to Patty Mills?

Reply #871998 | Report this post

Last month

There has been leakage for years due to simple economics.
If you can make double playing AFL, why would you not?

If basketball wants to keep more of its junior stars it needs to keep doing what it's already doing... continue the commercialisation of the game increasing revenue streams.

They flow onto player payments and further improve the standard of play. Once players can consistently make $500K+ in the NBL, fewer players will switch codes. We might even get some who come back.

Reply #871999 | Report this post

Last month

Luke Jackson was rated 2nd on efficiency of all players and averaged a double double at the U17 WC

Travers, Wani and Tamuri Wigness also on that team

Reply #872000 | Report this post

Last month

Lol I love how this is posted as though the issue has only just started. "The AFL Problem" has existed since the 90s and will for as long as the AFL is the biggest game in town.

I agree with previous posts about tbhe commercialization of the game. Some seem to be of tbhe belief that less imports and next stars and more spots in the NBL will lead to more retention - absolutely NOT true. To keep the Luke Jacksons of the world you need to offer more than the 60-80K a year that an NBL bench player can get, and you only do that by putting more eyeballs on the league, not by having more spots for second-rate Australian players. It's never been a problem of vacancies, it's a problem of economics.

The NBL is going the right direction in creating a league where the top Aussies looking to break into the NBA or go to the next level will come play here, but we're still a long way from retaining those kids that have potential in both games but are sitting on the fence. Kids who believe they'll make the NBA will probably stick with basketball. Kids like Greenwood who find they aren't on that level, and will struggle to make an Olympic team even, will choose football for the pay cheque and the glory of an AFL Grand Final. It's not in the least surprising that it sits this way. Little we can do about it in the short term. But long term as the league hopefully becomes more financially viable we should be able to steal some back

Reply #872002 | Report this post

Last month

He probably got sick of all the politics and clowns running the game at state and National level that keep the sport anchored to the bottom of the swamp.
Basketball SHOULD be challenging the AFL as the number one code in the country.
Will never happen with all these angry little backpack wearing dickheads in charge.

Reply #872003 | Report this post

Last month

Christian Petracca played in national squad

Reply #872004 | Report this post

Last month

Luke was very good at the U17 World Cup in 2018 in Santa Fe. He showcased his athleticism against some bigger opponents and went on to average 13.7 ppg and 13.7 rpg. He was already forecast to turn to football at this stage and this came to fruition as soon as we returned from Argentina. Great kid, super athlete and well done to him on winning the Rising Star Award and of course a Premiership...

Reply #872005 | Report this post

Last month

If they are good enough they will stay playing basketball. I suspect Luke knew that he was not going to make it to the NBA and hence the decision. Would you play NBL for 80k when you could get 300k in the AFL? Would you play AFL for 300k when you could be getting $3 mill in the NBA? Rough numbers obviously

These players have the best insight of where they will end up and choose accordingly.

I'm sure Giddey, Green, Landale, Exum etc. have all been tapped on the shoulder by the AFL too.

If the WAFC want to move to Sunday big deal. They will probably lose a few footy players to basketball too. The AFL shouldn’t be seen as a threat. The more they work together the better. Gazey has been a good bridge across for example. Many AFL players are basketball fans. I’d love to see an off-season AFL basketball game.

As per the previous posters, this is an age old issue and nothing new. But if you looked at it closely Pendlebury, Petracca, Greenwood and co would’ve been playing NBL/Euroleague at best with a slither of a chance at NBA. They knew it and made the move accordingly.

Basketball is in great shape. Grassroots is huge. Kids are taking up basketball knowing it’s a bit safer (concussion). The Australian team have been fantastic with their bronze win at the Olympics. The NBL is alive and kicking (which you couldn’t picture over 5 years ago). There are many young up and coming stars in the big show. Kids have players to aspire to.

Reply #872006 | Report this post

Last month

Imagine on the women's side if netball wasn't the dominant sport for juniors.

Reply #872015 | Report this post

Last month

Jackson would have been the starting pf or undersized centre for Perth already.
At this point he chose the right path.

I believe over 20+ guys currently on Afl rosters played at AJC level.
Perhaps someone has a list.

Off the top of my head but can't remember all


Reply #872016 | Report this post

Last month

Women losses are staggering over past year and going forward.

So far...


Expect another 10 next year poached from nbl1/ncaa

Reply #872018 | Report this post

Last month

Greenwood, Pendlebury, jackson, Tsapatolis had senior Aus rep potential at varying levels.
Price n Conti had opals potential imo

Reply #872019 | Report this post

Last month

What about the grass roots drain. Especially kids being enticed to clubs get recruited over become disillusioned and go to footy... ever tine kids leave sport for football clubs should ask themselves why .
Basketball should be the destination sport especially in Olympic years world cup years with nba exposure Benny Simmons giddey patty mills even bogut and cambage fued should be growth sport.... why isn't it ...
World's greatest athletes jordan LeBron Kobe bird gaze luka Derek Randall
No braina -

Reply #872023 | Report this post

Last month

Aussies in the NBA ~10
AUssies in Europe ~10 with average salary maybe 300k
Aussies in NBL ~50 with average salary maybe 150k

Aussies in AFL ~600 with average salary 300 - 350k.

Rough numbers but you get my point

Basketball is one of the top participation sports in the world. But very few earn great money relative to the huge numbers of players esp out of the US.

Reply #872025 | Report this post

Last month

The simple reality in Australia is that there are exponentially more opportunities in footy than in basketball. Every year around 100 boys get taken in the afl draft. If you think about the basketball pathway, what opportunities are there for the top 100 18yos every year? Maybe a handful go to college, maybe another handful get a DP spot in the NBL. It is what it is, and in the girls it is probably not quite as weighted in favour of footy. But where we can do better is embracing kids that play footy instead of forcing basketball to take priority all the time. In footy, they view kids playing basketball as a huge positive, but in basketball if a kid plays footy as well, they get the constant pressure of someone asking them what their priority is, rather than recognizing that footy can help basketballers too.

Reply #872026 | Report this post

Last month

In the 5-6 main leagues in Europe bottom line salaries is 250-300k, not average.

Afl average is always looking good because it is an average, when the top ten players take most of the teams salary cap it falls remarkably. The difference in pay packet is a lot.

Fair point re nbl, again top guys take a fair chunk so the average drops again after your imports take most.

Reply #872027 | Report this post

Last month

In the end you should play the game you enjoy the most, money is important but in Australia unless you are a Cotton, Goulding type you are not making huge amounts, same in the afl, the Fyfes, Franklns etc take the big bucks and have long careers, the rest is average of three years. Young basketballers can go to college and have a ball, if you can get a euro contract tour Europe or the country you play in.

Swings and round abouts.

Reply #872028 | Report this post

Last month

Can remember Petracca playing in the backcourt with Exum and giving Simmons the silver service in U18 nationals in 2012 which would have been the year before he was drafted to the AFL.Now he is a Norm Smith Medallist,premiership player with a long term contract and potential Brownlow Medallist in the next year or two.

Reply #872029 | Report this post

Last month

Some other Vic Metro hoopers who switched to AFL...

Marc Pittonet
Tim Taranto
Harley Balic
Joel Smith
Michael Luxford
Mate Colina
Pat Bines
Marcus Windhager (tipped to be drafted next month)

Reply #872045 | Report this post

Last month

Hardly any of those above make any substantial money, not certain that proves anything. Yes Pendlebury, Pratraca and a few others do well but the majority don't or earn big money.

Reply #872050 | Report this post

Last month

Has Mate Colina fully given up on basketball?
Have Richmond dropped him?
He's listed on Hawaii’s 2021/22 roster.

Reply #872053 | Report this post

Last month

It's definitely a tough decision for many kids but many make the wrong choice. Michael Luxford is a good example and he really should have stuck with basketball.
If he had gone to college, he would have developed and come back as an NBL player for sure. Instead, he went to Geelong (AFL) and didn’t make it in either sport.

Reply #872055 | Report this post

Last month

Capetola tried now back in nbl1

Reply #872056 | Report this post

Last month

So out of all that cross over a very few make it. Very hard if near impossible to come back to basketball after being out for a few seasons.

Therefore it's not that big a problem.

Reply #872060 | Report this post

4 real  
Last month

Hard to blame them going to footy / all the drugs and women you want, get away with blue murder, and get treated like a GOD.

Reply #872066 | Report this post

Last month

Bradke delisted by Melbourne, very few make the top money bracket.

Reply #872104 | Report this post

Last month

It's an individual decision

If you think you're a good chance of making NBA, or Europe or being a top NBL player than basketball's probably the best decision.

But if you're anybody else and looking mid-tier NBL at best but a genuine shot at AFL, then the choice is easy.

Reply #872111 | Report this post

Last month

Exposure to AFL does harden up our basketballers and may foster a more physically robust playing style. I remember the time with Simmons in his second season with the 76ers setting a screen and became aware that a larger opponent was deliberately running straight at him. It was just the latest stunt this opponent pulled to intimidate Simmons. Instinctively the skinny Simmons turned his shoulder and collected this guy in a classic hip and shoulder shirt front - stopped this huge player dead in his tracks, crumbled to the floor. And of course there is Dellys frequent trips to the floor with hard ball gets, sometimes taking out an opponents feet. Pretty normal stuff in AFL. US commentators got it completely wrong, admonishing Delly's robust play as dangerous saying "Delly played Rugby back in Australia"

Reply #872322 | Report this post

Last month

Red84, from what I recall delly was mostly fine with his hard ball hustle stuff except the time he broke korvers ankle (literally) and clotheslined bradley beal. The Korver situation was just supreme shit luck as just the way their bodies were positioned it was awkward and delly merely tried to get up but in doing so proceeded to roll onto Korver as he was trying to get up also. Granted the commentary lost their mind but it was like a 1 in a million chance of happening but you can still get why people were pissed as it was a dumb thing for delly to do and that injury really turned Korver into really productive starter to merely a backup as combined with his age it was the worst case scenario for him.

In regards to Beal, delly tried to foul him but got him around the neck, which again you could tell was accidental but anytime you have a guy moving as fast as Beal was and then essentially get clotheslined, it makes sense why people were pissed.

Reply #872330 | Report this post

Last month

I think the perception of this may be biased for a couple of reasons
Opportunities for representative AFL unlimited to the Under 16s under 18s nationals. Where are the kid that is also coming today at basketball could easily play internationally. It's when that young player makes a choice of AFL over basketball, we see them as being lost to basketball, when in reality AFL my always been a more realistic option for them.

Similarly, basketball offers unique opportunity for even mediocre players to go and play it some bumfuk university in America, where they can spend 4 years smoking pot and chasing girls. That's an attractive proposition for many young guys, so again we see them as basketball players first and foremost but many may still always have a preference for a career in AFL

Lastly, there is the ridiculous AFL category b system, that allows players to use another sport such as basketball, to completely circumvent the AFLdraft and list restrictions.

Reply #872436 | Report this post

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