Anonymous
Earlier this year

BSA combining U21 divisions?

Season fixtures out today and I must say I am beyond confused

U21s Div 1 and Div 2 seems to have merged into some gigantic comp of 20 teams. U23 no longer exists and Div 1 Mens has 15 teams. What is the meaning of this? That many teams in one comp with 9 rounds would mean some teams will never see each other? Why merge u21 div 1/2 when there is a perfect amount of teams that can be split into 2 10s?

Man I am confused

Topic #49674 | Report this topic


-  
Earlier this year

isn't it a short grading season ? put them all together and top 10 = div 1 - next 10 div 2 ? although they only have first 3 rounds up - so maybe some more modifications on the way. ? not enough time for 20 teams to all play each other though.

Reply #883017 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Happens a lot I'm thinking...

Reply #883023 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Shambles. They don't even know how to use their Website.

Rookies in control of the State. Clubs need to step up and demand better.

But they're gutless. The downward spiral will continue.

Reply #883025 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Truth hurts BSA employee?

Reply #883040 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Basketball SA are definitely going downhill,not same anymore with idiots who have no idea how to plan things ,mark my word it's gonna get worse .

Reply #883058 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

There is no way the Clubs agreed to combined Div 1&2 comp with 3 teams on BYE and zero chance of everyone playing each other before grading is over. How does that even work? BSA wouldn't even understand how bad they are, that's part of the problem. Commission even more clueless. This is nowhere near the worst of it either.

Reply #883060 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

It seems all people in SA do is whinge and complain. First the Sixers home arena, now their state association. Is there anything worth a damn there or is it Hell on Earth?

Reply #883134 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Come here and find out

You'll find yourself as confused as we are

Reply #883137 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

From what I understand from the 'new competitions 2022' facebook post that I read, the grading season is only supposed to be juniors(Under 18 and below) so it shouldn't apply to YL and Senior Men.

I think the U21 situation is just them being like the op said

On drugs.

Reply #883138 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The only thing I could think of is that majority nominated Div 1. But on that list, unless there's been a lot of movement, there's clearly a lot of div 2. Magic, SA Church, West 2, South 2, Forestville 2, Woodville 2 and South 2.
Just looks like BSA being lazy or club's being delusional.
If only they had a summer season to sort out placements instead of wasting months on it. That was in a sarcastic tone btw.

Reply #883142 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

A couple of those smaller clubs may have pushed for this, but the member clubs did not want this.

The last minute announcement of it too throws things into disarray.

What happens in a case of an uneven draw? First two weeks let's say the 4th best team in division 1 has to forfeit due to covid protocols. Then the next 3 weeks they play who would be 1st, 2nd and 3rd strongest team in division 1. They lose by 3, 2 and 1 points. They are now 0 and 5, and well on track to being in division 2 for winter where they will either destroy everyone, or all their talented players leave for another club. Remember a lot of youth league guys also coach, meaning the junior coaching ranks get decimated too.

I would think with the upcoming season of rolling forfeits due to covid, this would be the worst possible year to attempt this.

Reply #883144 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

You know what would've been cool:

Delay season until covid is calm. There will be a huge amount of forfeits in the first 3 rounds

Reply #883145 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I don't understand why they are insisting on continuing the season with 5000+ cases a day when they voided multiple rounds when there was less than 50 per day. BSA logic

Reply #883146 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

What channel do you watch news, 5000 cases a day?

Reply #883148 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Just let BSA run their shit show see how much stuff ups this year and past as well.

Get rid of the whinging social teams on week nights replace them with District games ,too many players Complaining week after week when I bring my kids to Distract games during week ,it's appalling,all uic is just sitting behind counter not even monitoring games .

Reply #883159 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

#159 made about as much sense as the CEO talking about basketball. NONE

Reply #883162 | Report this post


anon #860  
Earlier this year

If only clubs weren't as bad as BSA and actually took over the running of the competitions, then we might get something that can actually provide a meaningful structure that promotes development and growth in the sport.

Reply #883205 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

For years, Clubs and BSA have taken the path of self preservation. Choosing to employee and promote those that don't have the skills or knowledge to hide the fact those responsible for leading the sport are incapable.

So many good people have giving up on the sport in SA and walked away. It will continue for years as the current BSA and Club leaderships aren't up to it, and continue to make stupid selfish decisions.

Reply #883216 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

How would you possibly make a fair grading in 9 rounds (some of them will have lots of forfeits) for 20 teams?

BSA: hur hur ball go boing

Reply #883247 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Honestly have never seen anything like this in any sport. You have an Undefeated Div 1 North Adelaide team playing against a Division 3/4 Western Magic team. How is that fair on both teams?

Reply #883251 | Report this post


Isaac  
Earlier this year

I don't understand why they are insisting on continuing the season with 5000+ cases a day when they voided multiple rounds when there was less than 50 per day. BSA logic
We had 5k+ a couple of weeks ago. It was under 2k yesterday and trending down. Heading into a trough now, at least (remembering that any deaths will trail the wave of cases).

The landscape has changed over time. In the past, smaller proportion vaccinated, more problematic variant. Now, seems a faster-spreading but less damaging variant, 90%+ vaccinated 12+ population, vaccination an option for sporting-age children. I assume a primary concern has been managing load on hospitals. Seems we're moving into a new phase with the community response and I assume any sporting organisation is taking/requesting advice from specialists.

We had fewer cases and deaths say early-mid 2020, so it's harder to extrapolate data, but look at Victoria as an example. Check a graph of deaths with a wave in mid-2020 and then Nov-ish until now. Two distinct peaks. Switch the graph to new cases and, compared to recent months, that mid-2020 peak is barely noticeable. Mid-2020 was x00 cases/day, 10-20 deaths/day. Jan 2021 was x0,000 cases/day, but similar 10-20 deaths/day.

Starting to adjust to that doesn't seem crazy to me.

Reply #883254 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I would agree we should adjust however it is unlikely cases are trending down below 2000 due to testing numbers going from 19k per day to 9-10k. The less you test, the less you find. I think people have finally started to live with it.

Reply #883255 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Correct, sadly.

Reported positive cases here, like everywhere in the world, have decreased alongside testing numbers. The real positive cases are impossible to know but most experts in the field agree that they are way higher than the numbers reported.

5,000+ is quite likely.

Reply #883256 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Great points Isaac.

The problem isn't the cases, it's the current isolation rules. With all kids on a team considered close contacts when one case present the amount of forfeits are going to be massive.

Reply #883261 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

#216 As far as I'm aware clubs hold AGM's once a year, 10 District clubs plenty for you to choose from to correct your view and make the improvements you think are required!

Reply #883282 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

20 team pools for a 9 round grading season in juniors hahahahahaha.

Compeition manager needs to be sacked asap if he thinks this is how to run a comp.

also learn how to use a gameday website!

Reply #883295 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I wonder how many of these teams nominated for div 2? If 15 or so had gone for div 1 there may be an argument to combine, but there would be no harm in having those 15 in div 1 to be graded, those struggling to be relegated.
There really should be a statement given regarding the decision to do this. Might not make sense but at least be transparent.

Reply #883301 | Report this post


anon #  
Earlier this year

Why do junior grades have 4 teams in the same competition all on a bye? Haven't kids missed enough games already? And when the inevitable forfeits and team withdrawals occur, those kids will be missing maybe 3 out of the 9 games, unless BSA is planning on doing a complete redraw multiple times during the season. Which makes grading next to useless.

Reply #883354 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Teams will pull in the first few rounds due to uncertainties with covid or close contact. How would fairly grade teams that forfeit?

Reply #883408 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

How would grading phased work? Will teams be able to go up one division at the maximum?

Reply #883456 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Well, it happened. Multiple 100 point thrashings, absolutely a disgrace. Some of those teams wouldn't even make finals in div 3.

Reply #883775 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Watch as teams ask to be moved. Or players quit forcing teams to be withdrawn.

Well done BSA.

Reply #883790 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Yep, if you are one of those teams who copped a 100 point drubbing last night, you're looking at another 9 weeks of pain. Do players really want to pay fees and show up to another 9 weeks of that?

All you are achieving is helping players decide to leave their sport, or their club. It's going to make the smaller clubs even smaller.

Reply #883803 | Report this post


Truth  
Earlier this year

BSA have a very strong history in helping young players choose to leave and play other sports....

Reply #883811 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Earlier this year

"you're looking at another 9 weeks of pain"

I don't believe this is the case. The 3 teams that got smashed will play against 2 div 2 teams and a div 3 team next week. The following week they have a lower ranked d1 teams and d2 team.

After the first 3 rounds I imagine BSA will order the teams so that they play comparative teams. The rest of the teams will fight it out to work out who plays d1 or d2 for winter season.

Reply #883815 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Which if true Sixersfan illustrates the problem even more. You can't make a even draw. So some poor team might miss out on division 1 due to a strength of schedule issue.

There's so many reprecussions for member clubs if they lose a division 1 side.

Reply #883821 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I can't imagine some of the club's wanting to nominate 2 teams in Div 1, apart from North and Sturt, maybe another that believed they had the depth. Magic and Church wouldn't have you suspect. I believe in the past there has been room for players to move within same division for first few weeks, but what if the better team needs players later, do they have to bring up div 3?
Should have had 2 comps and done relegation after 5 weeks if needed.
But despite the it's, buts and maybes,this is still ridiculous. One kid had 54, outscoring west2 by himself. A few others had individuals outscoring opponents total. A north kid had 10 threes.

Reply #883823 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

There were 12 teams which nominated for Div1 which has been behind this crazy arrangement. Church nominated for Div 1 and Sturt nominated 2 teams. Both those teams were thrashed. Change it back NOW!!!

Reply #883830 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Sturt2 was 30 but at least against a div 1 team in Woodville.
Church couldn't win in div 1 even if Jesus made a comeback at small forward.

Reply #883844 | Report this post


Truth  
Earlier this year

The Sturt 1 team was mostly State players that had come up from U18 Div 1. The West 2 team were all Div 2 level at best previously. Kind of illustrates the point of how stupid it is to put these teams against each other

Reply #883846 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

From memory Woodville were not too good in Div1 last year

Reply #883858 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Woodville just missed finals, so mid table. Not too great but not too bad. Not sure if any of 18 premiers will come into team.

Reply #883860 | Report this post


Truth  
Earlier this year

It seems like one of the big issues is clubs doing different things with their best U21 players. Some clubs are moving them into NBL1 reserves, while others (Sturt for instance) are keeping therm in U21. It makes the U21 competition very uneven.

Reply #883921 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Western and church are both div 3 teams at very most. west2 would be a below average div 2 but they ran into a probably reserves level 21s team

I wouldn't even wait until round 5 to be honest

Reply #883925 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

A lot of truth in what truth said!

Reply #883934 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Basketball SA does a very good job of listening to every club and taking in their feedback and suggestions then doing exactly what everyone didn't ask for

Very interesting management

Reply #883937 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

What Truth said has been true of competitions forever. Since YL started this happened. When U20s existed this happened.

It's not new, and has nothing to do with this issue. Just another pro BSA post from Truth.

Reply #883943 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Just a thought. Why don't they limit div 1 to just 1 team per club like juniors.
If you're in a div 2 team beating the hell out of everyone there, want to play higher or even try and crack a weaker club's senior program, transfer.
If club's like Magic and Church want div 2, let them. But if they're smashed for the first 5 weeks and realise they're not up to it, they go to div 3 without any points on ladder.

Reply #883945 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Just a thought. Clubs and BSA should employ the absolute best person with experience and knowledge to do the job they're given well. Instead of the easiest or least experienced that won't have an opinion and just do whatever some parent/president/board/ceo says, even though they don't have a clue.

Reply #883947 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Earlier this year

"Just a thought. Clubs and BSA should employ the absolute best person with experience and knowledge to do the job they're given well."

That would make sense but the best people with the experience and knowledge are in jobs that would pay a lot higher in most cases I would imagine.

Reply #883948 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Employing the absolute best people for the job means spending $$$. It's the problem with community sport, they pay is peanuts.

Reply #883949 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

What truth said is unavoidable

Elite U21 players will inevitably play reserves/nbl1 at clubs that don't have many elite older players leaving their u21 talent pool to be second rate against clubs that have elite older players that are willing to commit to summer seasons


What you can avoid is putting div 1 u21s against teams that should be in div 3/4, doesn't take a huge amount of braincells to do that

Reply #883950 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Earlier this year

"problem with community sport, they pay is peanuts."

Do they actually have the money to spend?

Reply #883951 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

It's not just the pay in community sport, it's also the nature of constantly changing boards, committees etc that you report to.

Makes for terrible job security, and hard for long term planning as priorities of those you report to constantly change.

You occasionally do get some quality people working in community sport for altruistic purposes, but it's usually doesn't take long to they burn out and move on.

Reply #883952 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

North have managed to find the money.

BSA have plenty in the bank. Other clubs should have the money. They just don't want to give up power.

Reply #883953 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Community sport across all codes pays sweet FA.

Reply #883954 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Man if only basketball paid like footy

Reply #883957 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Community footy doesn't pay any better than community Basketball. All community sport generically pay about 60k across the board for operational roles.

Reply #883959 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Nope

Reply #883961 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The notion that U21 Div 1 is limited to one from each of the 10 clubs like juniors is the position of 8 or 9 clubs. One club has upset the apple cart just like the ludicrous position in reserves last year

Reply #883963 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

#961, yep. Just go look at seek or the clearinghouse of sport (the daily newsletter from ausport).

Reply #883966 | Report this post


860  
Earlier this year

#963

So what you are saying is that clubs shouldn't bother retaining their junior who’ve n with the club for up to 10 years. And that they should move to teams who they don’t share goals with just to play in u21?

Do you understand that disincentivising success if the reason basketball in SA has stagnated whilst it’s grow exponentially in other states? Who have allowed multiple teams in D1 for years. Which has encouraged clubs to get their shit together and grow domestic comps, coaching and administration levels.

Reply #883967 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The sport has grown massively in the last 3-5 years in Adelaide, but don't let that get in the way of your agenda.

The Elite side of the sport is a joke, Clubs running over 10 District teams in some age groups. That's not elite.

Reply #883968 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Whilst SA only allows 10 clubs to participate in Division 1 at the Junior level the sport will never grow like other states.

Reply #883971 | Report this post


860  
Earlier this year

Growth in domestic has minimal correlation to Elite level basketball development.

All it does is expose more kids to the game, it doesn't make them considerably better.

Simple rule, the more restrictions in a marketplace, the less efficiently it works. The rule for only 1 team in D1 is purely to help those clubs who aren't willing nor able to develop their own players to hope that players from other clubs come to fill their teams. Not really an incentive for either side of the coin to continue to develop elite players.

Reply #883981 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Anyone surprised that 8 of the 31 games scheduled yesterday were forfeited?

Reply #884362 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Surprised that anyone took the time to count exactly how many forfeits there were.

Reply #884370 | Report this post


anon  
Earlier this year

#971 not sure how diluting Div 1 further is going to make basketball better, maybe learn from SA cricket who are now trying to reduce clubs to raise the standard.
Might be better to align "tier 2" (using that term purely for reference) clubs to current District clubs. Sure some clubs would be more than happy to work with each other if all are in it to raise standard of Basketball in SA, just need to think.

Reply #884383 | Report this post


860  
Earlier this year

What would benefit competition would be to limit Div 1 and 2 to 8 teams. 14 round winter competition so that they can run a 3x3 season before Christmas and grading season before and after Christmas.

8 team graded competitions would create less lop-sided results and more games that had close results.

Improved retention (especially in girls)
Emphasis for the club to work on their juniors
Clear for parents about what grade a team/child should be rather than clubs promising D1 to D2 or D2 to D4 standard teams at the expense of the children and the competition.

Reply #884393 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

So one these clubs who are pushing for division 1 last night lost by 85 to another club's div 3 team.

Another one lost by 43 to a division 2 team.

Can we stop this madness now?

Reply #884512 | Report this post


SixersFan  
Earlier this year

To be fair a D1 team beat a D1 team by 62.

One more week and then BSA will start placing teams in the proper order.

Reply #884569 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

And the other club pushing for two Div 1 spots has yet to win a game

Reply #884571 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I think this well and truly proves that we don't have the population and depth for promotion and relegation.

And this is on the boys side as well, where there is still plenty of guys playing and highly dedicated in this age group. Imagine the carnage trying this on the girl's side.

Reply #884575 | Report this post


860  
Earlier this year

Actually, it shows that and property organised grading season would allow for promotion/relegation. Primarily if you reduced the number of teams in the main competition to 8 teams.

Because pro/rel would remove club decisions and put them into the hands of the teams.

Reply #884577 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

860, you do realize that with BSA's new rules if you do that across all age groups in three years time we are going to end up with a less than 8 team NBL1 competition. Is that want we really want? Less spots for players to play in when they finish juniors?

We will probably end up with a 5 or 6 team competition.

Reply #884619 | Report this post


860  
Earlier this year

Why would that happen?

Clubs would have greater retention, as they wouldn't be losing players due to them losing games by large margins, and clubs wouldn’t be forced to put them in D1.

And don’t try pretend that clubs only use their own juniors for the NBL1 teams, so that’s not stopping anything.

and that hasn’t happened at all in other states where similar situations occur with differing levels of rules, but don’t guarantee D1 spots in all grades.

So please explain!

Reply #884651 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

860,

The more you write the more I understand.....the more I understand that you know very little. You lost me with saying play 14 normal games and the play a 3x3 season. Do you have any idea what form of the game the majority of juniors want to play? The failure of efforts by BSA to grow 3x3 is evidence of that. Cut back the number of 5 on 5 games and I feel these younger players will eventually gravitate to other sports.

Reply #884775 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

860, read the rules. It's very clear. In 3 years time if you don't have a division 1 team in both genders across 14s to 18s you don't have a NBL1 license.

Make it 8 team comp with relegation and multiple clubs would fail to meet the criteria.

Based on last year's results if it was a 8 team promotion and relegation competition 4 clubs off the top of my head would have lost their NBL1 license. Maybe more if I checked the results closer.

Yes sports science shows that for retention it's far better for children to be in a competitive environment, but BSA is heading in the opposite direction by forcing clubs to put teams division 1.

Reply #884778 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

860 - No half decent basketballer wants to play 3 x 3 over 5 x 5. That is just the dumbest thing ever

Reply #884780 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Can we all agree if you're playing in Teams 8 -13 at your club in an Age group your club is rorting you for fees and you are not playing District basketball!?

Clubs certainly can't claim the high road when they're doing things like this.

Reply #884788 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

I think you will find that a lot of clubs are more than happy to go no deeper than 4 teams, and leave everything else in a association model. But the competition isn't structured like that, so we have what we have.

Reply #884795 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

The competition isn't structured like that because no club is willing to do it. The Club decide how deep the competition structure goes.

Reply #884798 | Report this post


860  
Earlier this year

I am also suggesting a 15 game grading season. Rather than the previous 11. So only not actually fewer games.

And, rules can change. And other criteria can be created such as you must enter 2 teams into the grading season. One that starts in the top 10 and another in the 11-20 grade. Then they play where they qualify according to their ability creating greater retention.

BSA hasn't been able to generate 3x3 because they haven't shown clubs how to monetize it. Probably because of the friction between clubs and BSA during Covid and other prior issues.

You guys seem to think that things can't change for the better. And given BSA's record, I understand why that might be.

Reply #884859 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

For pretty much all age groups Div 5 and under becomes social in terms of standard. Pretty much a participation trophy type thing

But clubs wouldn't make as much money if they made everyone else play association. 'Playing district' in SA doesn't hold as much weight as it would in other states like Vic

Reply #884901 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Div 5 sure, we're not talking team 6 or 7. Some clubs in Adelaide are running to team 13!

Playing District is everything in SA. Association basketball is so new, being able to say you play District no matter what division/team unfortunately means everything to most parents, and some kids.

Reply #884912 | Report this post


anon  
Earlier this year

For a learner, apart from the obvious population difference SA 1M v Vic 5 M which inceases numbers of players, how does the BB system work? Do the have "associations" linked to Rep/District teams and kids have to work their way up? Or like in SA where you just try out?

Reply #885013 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Earlier this year

Team 13......what is that meant to be div 10?

Reply #885021 | Report this post




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