curtley
Earlier this year

NBA teams tanking/resting players

Is it just me or do people think the NBA draft lottery system is basically broken?

Teams still tank to make the lottery, which essentially means instead of 3-4 teams tanking for the number 1 spot (pre '85), 6-7 teams are tanking in a race for the bottom 4.

I know its all about money these days but with 2/3 of the season gone, teams that know they cant make the playoffs basically tend to rest their best players with injuries that would otherwise come back from injuries.

Is there a solution for this madness?

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Isaac  
Earlier this year

Haralabob's half-baked idea a while back was something like: decide lottery eligibility at one point in the season, and then lottery position based on their relative effort from that point on. Not sure how this would account for performance based on major injuries.

I'm not sure it's that bad a situation. Struggling teams are still getting some upsets. Teams at all levels are resting players.

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BALLER#3  
Earlier this year

The play in has somewhat made things better. The only think I can think of to fix this is actually reward those finishing slightly higher a better pick. May be something like this:

1-6 - play off teams - picked in order
7-10 - play-in teams - 6.25% (50% total)
11-15 - remainder - 5% (50% total)

Would make some of those fringe team push a little harder. It wont change when the bottom few spots are still favoured odds wise.

Alternatively play some sort of toilet bowl for the right for first pick.

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Cram  
Earlier this year

Yeah I dont think there's a perfect solution.

You could flatten the ping pong ball odds (either completely or partially) so you don't have to have teams trying to be REALLY bad, but that presents two issues in itself: one is a team who's on the fringe of the playoffs deciding they have no chance to compete for a title so tanking late (which is an awful look) and you'd also have to live with some bad teams staying bad for longer as they struggle to get a high pick.

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KET  
Earlier this year

It's a somewhat irreconcilable aspect of the game isn’t it.

The idea of the lottery is to help make weak teams better - you want weak teams to get good draftees.

To that extent, teams that aren’t going to be competitive for playoffs, are rewarded for being weak and the ranking incentive is there if your club isn’t in a position where winning, culture build is important.

The ranking is a quantifiable, relative effort/tanking isn’t quantifiable even if it’s "obvious".

Strictly speaking, it’s hard to criticise tanking in a way - who’s to decide the best way for a team to develop into something competitive?

Look at the AFL and the Crows, they’re clearly tanking to an extent, and I don’t think anyone is criticising them for it as they needed the revamp and for the fans it’s about building something good not just mediocre.

Yes, it’s a blight that you have teams go into free fall mode, but I think it’s a relatively unsolvable/irreconcilable part aspect - you dont want to punish weak teams for being weak, but you don’t want clubs necessarily trying to be weak for the incentive.

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Yup  
Earlier this year

I think the simplest solution is to base the lottery odds based on the last 2 years.

If your in the lottery for consecutive years (kings), you clearly need more help than warriors

Gives the perennial losers more help than good teams having down years due to injury's

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AngusH  
Earlier this year

The only real solution (which will never happen because of $$$ reasons primarily, records a far distant 2nd) is to drop the number of games per season.

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Perthworld  
Earlier this year

It doesn't help when the star of the league sets the tone because he takes every second game off dispute his team being desperate for wins. The whole thing is broken.

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Anon  
Earlier this year

Interesting that a previous thread was brought up how NBL should go to 48 minutes and now one about resting players. These 2 items have a direct correlation

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KET  
Earlier this year

" Interesting that a previous thread was brought up how NBL should go to 48 minutes and now one about resting players. These 2 items have a direct correlation"

I think playing 1-2 40 minute games each week, totalling 28 games is very different to 82x 48 minute games playing almost every second day/3-4 times a week.

Hard to draw a comparison on two extremely different set of circumstances!!

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Hakeem Mills  
Earlier this year

I mean tanking has been an issue for the NBA for it's entirety.

In a sport where's there's 5 players on the court & 1 primary playmaker/ scorer. (Top 5 player)

Having an elite player in the league makes a huge difference to the team & the franchise.

Whether it's the Spurs in the 90s tanking the season David Robinson was injured & setting themselves up for nearly 20 years with Tim Duncan.

Or the Cavaliers tanking to get the home grown hero LeBron in the 2000s.

Nothing really can be done about this unfortunately.

The NBA has been set up as it has been & there's no reasonable way to change this.

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Hakeem Mills  
Earlier this year

I should also mention the Philadelphia 76ers who made tanking openly their strategy, in order to get a star or 2 to lead them for 15 years.

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Cram  
Earlier this year

I think we should separate load management from tanking too.

Load management is necessary for player battling niggling injuries or coming back after big layoffs. The only chance the Laker have of doing anything in the playin tournament/playoffs is if LBJ is fit, so why play him every game when it isnt gonna affect the standings much anyway? For the record I don't think they will do anything (and I think they know it too) but you have to give yourself every chance.

On tanking, shutting guys down for the season if they've got any injuries obviously hurts your ability to win this season, but the benefits clearly outweigh any negative if your season is already shot - Better chance at a high pick, no risk of further injury affecting next season, and getting a chance to play kids and see which ones might be a part of the future.

the line would be crossed if a team actively tried to lose games, either the coach or players deliberately making plays against the team and I dont think we've seen anything close to that. If you got to a final game against another tank rival and suddenly sat your best 8 players that would probably not be on either.

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Cram  
Earlier this year

"I should also mention the Philadelphia 76ers who made tanking openly their strategy, in order to get a star or 2 to lead them for 15 years."

I went to a game during "the process" and sat lower bowl for $15. Got to see Patty with the Spurs so it was fun despite being an awful game.

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Hakeem Mills  
Earlier this year

Cram

Yup the upside of tanking is ticket prices bottom out for those seasons. You can see your favourite players on other teams for cheap.

Would've loved to have seen Patty vs any NBA team live.

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Cram  
Earlier this year

I was lucky enough to see him a couple of times. The other was against my Raptors in Toronto while he was still at Portland. I confused the people around me switching between my Patty Jersey and Raptors jersey depending on whether he was on court. I did go to Portland once when he was there too but he didnt get off the bench.

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Hakeem Mills  
Earlier this year

I met him in Canberra when he brought the Larry O'Brien here.

I've seen him play for Australia but I've never been to the USA.

Seemed like an awesome guy. I'm in a weird position as a Rockets fan. We own the Brooklyn pick(unprotected) but I'm a Patty Mills fan.

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