JB
Last month

Spain recruits a new point guard

Just saw a report that Lorenzo Brown has become a Spanish citizen. Unless I am mistaken, he has no roots there, has never played in Spain, etc.
But they needed a point guard to replace Rubio... so apparently gave him a passport. Spain must not have enough players!
You'd expect that sort of rubbish from fringe basketball countries, but from Spain?!
I know they have had naturalised players in the past, but that is an extreme case

Topic #50232 | Report this topic


Ozzymandis  
Last month

Dafaq, how is that even allowed, doesn't FIBA have the power to intervene and stop it from happening?

Reply #895230 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

I hope this is the event which triggers FIBA to review and subsequently ban non-natural naturalisations.

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Weedy Slug  
Last month

I'm still getting over Embiid playing for France.

Reply #895235 | Report this post


Mat B  
Last month

"With the express Spanish nationality of a player without any roots in Spain, the message that is sent to national players is very harmful and has a negative impact on both the present and the future. Is it credible that the current world champion team does not find Spanish players with whom to compete in the highest international level events?

The illusion of any player in the training categories of the clubs and the Spanish Basketball Federation is to be able to one day play with the senior National Team. This legitimate hope is frustrating when the Federation and the National Sports Council favor the granting of legal but ethically reprehensible passports.

The ABP has systematically denounced for many years the normalization of marriages of convenience and passports from other countries using the same system now used by the Federation and the National Sports Council.

This type of action dynamites the expectations of the players, alienates the fans, and eliminates the sporting merit that allows one to dream of playing for the National Team.

It is devastating to see how each season the number of national players in the professional squads of our competitions decreases, even in training categories.

The Spanish players have talent and have been showing it for many years, but to develop and exploit it they need opportunities in their clubs and of course in the Spanish Federation. We resist condemning the future of many players who aspire to play for the National Team in this way."
~
I'd imagine there'd be Nigerians and other Africans feeling the same way.



Link

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pattymillsMVP  
Last month

Spain should be worried. Not just the US but look at France:

Gobert
Embiid
Killian Hayes
Batum
Fournier
Luwawu-Cabarrot
Ntilikina
Wembanyama!

Yikes. Don't get me started on the Canadian team if they ever decide to use their forces.

Reply #895246 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last month

Spain senior men are in a down period, but it won't be long before they rise again.
Lots of retirements in a vet heavy squad, they needed a naturalised to help out Rubio and llull in the backcourt.
Bigs are also mediocre apart from ibaka, mirotic, Hernangomez brothers + young Garuba and aldama. Beyond that they have a few good bigs coming through like pradilla, mara and almanasa.
Lots of good guards coming through.

Probably won’t challenge for gold for another 4-5 years.

France, Canada + the USA are the 3 to beat.
Italy, Slovenia and Germany rapidly rising.

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Cram  
Last month

I'm not sure there's much that can be done to stop this kind of thing within the one naturalised spot rule.

Every country has different requirements for giving someone citizenship and I think its beyond FIBA's job to policing whether its legit or not.

As long as they continue to limit to one player per team I think its ok.

Reply #895251 | Report this post


curtley  
Last month

One player per team would be OK in theory but look at Nigeria!

Having said that I think South Sudan's current rise is essentially based on players of South Sudanese heritage living around the world playing for them, however given most if not all of them are refugees this seems completely appropriate.

Yes, no way France should get Embiid who has no ties to France apart from 'family living there'.

I think these types of things need to be decided on a case by case basis. Naturalising someone because they're good at the sport is just rorting the system. Ricky Grace, Cal Bruton, Loggins etc at least all had lengthy ties to Australia.

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AngusH  
Last month

Weedy Slug hit the nail on the head I think, Spain looking for a night watchman to help tie the current gen->next gen squads together and keep them competitive. I have no problem with it, it's a loop hole that's been exploited by a ton of countries, just strange to see Spain doing it and an indicator of where their current gen talent levels are at.

Reply #895264 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

Other nations level up using less than organic methods = bloody outrage.

But also

adopting South Sudan as our sister country if they have players that help the Boomers;

also - Aussie Matisse Vincent Thybulle. Born March 4, 1997 in Scottsdale, Arizona, USA. Son of Greg Thybulle.

Greg's employment relocates young Aussie Matisse to Sydney from 1999-2006 (age 2 to 9, at no point does Aussie 'Tisse touch a basketball).

Moves back to the USA to play high school, college, pro. Plays for the Boomers = fair dinkum.

LOLZ...

Reply #895266 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

Lots of African-American soldiers are stationed overseas.

Could you imagine a Shaq caliber player who lived for a few years in say Germany/Poland etc and playing for their national team purely because his dad's employer was stationed there?

Most Aussie fans would bag that...but have no trouble claiming Aussie Matisse lol.

Reply #895267 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last month

Yeah it's a stretch, but at least there is a link there. That's different from the Spain/Brown business transaction or even Blatche with the Philippines.

Reply #895271 | Report this post


AngusH  
Last month

Again though, whatever. I'm OK with it, lots of nations do it. Happy there is a restriction on it. Also happy to see the South Sudanese guys representing South Sudan. Stronger ties there than Thybulle/Aus.

Reply #895272 | Report this post


Ozzymandis  
Last month

@willyballs25, but atleast thybulle lived in australia until his parents got dual citizenship...he ticks one box in the eligiblity criteria

Reply #895288 | Report this post


Mat B  
Last month

Thybulle has more t8me in Australia than most of the South Sudan team has in Sudan.
He obtained citizenship on the basis of having lived and at the time, the decision was based on love for Australia by his family - so there was motive at the time of ever representing Australia at basketball.
Contrast that the numerous cases of accelerated citizenship for the sole reason of repsenting a country that one has barely lived in (many examples in recent time, notably, nigeria)

The criteria to represent a country should be clear and apply internationally:
- citizen by birth
- citizen by naturalisation having lived in the given country for an internationally agreed number of years.
Simple

Reply #895293 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

Guys defending Aussie 'Tisse just shows the sillyness.

He doesn't have "links" to Australia. He has ZERO family here and hasn't been back since 2006 age 9 when his dad's work contract expired.

Also

-when it was stipulated he MIGHT play for Australia it was initially 'we lived there a couple of times for Dad's work' then it conveniently became "around 7 years; yeah yeah definitely a good 7 years, my sister was born there".

Clear as day he had no real interest in Australian culture or basketball - until he realised as an adult it was something he could pursue.

As a high schooler, did he have any contact with the Emus coaches? LOL, no.

If was a shoe-in for Team USA, would he have Kyrie'd the Boomers? Yes.

Does he actually know Harold and Madge or anything that encapsulates the citizenship test now? No. Does he know what "way it has to be, little darlin?", lol no.

If the Boomers weren't a medal level nation, would he have played, perhaps but not likely.

You guys defending it are just making the one eyed-ness worse.

It's a joke regardless of the player or nation doing it be it Le Joelle Embiid, Ahn-Dray Blat-chay or Jeromuna Randleitis.

Just accept everyone does it to gain something - I mean I mock my retarded fellow Filipinos for all their "let's get Jordan Clarkson and Jalen Green" pipe dreams, so keep it consistent and mock my deluded fellow Aussies with their "Tisse is fair dinkum Aussie" rubbish.

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WillyBalls25  
Last month

sorry honourable mention to Sergio Ibakalderon

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WillyBalls25  
Last month

@Mat B

"Thybulle has more t8me in Australia than most of the South Sudan team has in Sudan."

LOL are you serious?

One lived from age 2-7, in Australia, because his obviously tertiary qualified engineer father wanted a tree change and got sponsored to work there..

the other guys sort of needed to leave because...war torn.

Good analogy!

Reply #895338 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

If you're a "Rose Gold" fan boi and one of those weird, vicarious fans that somehow feel validated from 2020's medal efforts, you need to acknowledge that the real MVP, is still probably Patty - but Greg Thybulle's employers finish a clear second.

Reply #895340 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

My favourite NBL player is Darnell Mee. He rep'd Australia (admittedly, well past his best years) because they needed that slick PG leadership.

After his playing career was over, he left Australia with the quicks and has resided in the USA ever since. Other than his great playing legacy here, no real link.

Contrast with another favourite D-Mac who stayed here, has all his 489 children here, coaches here, etc. For all intents and purposes, a genuine "migration". Plus he gave us the innovation that is the Cap Rack.

It's truly hard to gauge just what naturalisation is genuine or not - but if you hammer one, ie "oooh Spain trying to replace Rubio, have a look at these fools"; you also need to check everyone that's been jizzing their pants for a possibly Bryce Cotton naturalisation, "so Patty has a back up" etc...

Reply #895346 | Report this post


Pasadena 72  
Last month

Darnell Mee was coaching state league in Adelaide as recently as 2016. So hardly left "with the quicks" once his playing days were over.

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WillyBalls25  
Last month

Citizen in '06, stopped playing in '09, a small time gig coaching State League.

Where has he been living since? Where was son Micale raised and where did he go to school?

That's just what I mean - just because someone plays pro in a league/nation for a few years and wants "citizenship" doesn't equate to some great desire to "become a genuine citizen" of that country lol.

How much tax has ol' Matisse paid lol... what does he know of Australia's Basketball history? Could he distinguish a Ray Borner from a Larry Sengstock?

Darnell is as Strayan as Jeruna Randlonis is Lithuanian..

Reply #895350 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

For reference, Shaq lived in Germany age 14-15. Kobe lived in Italy age 6-7, same duration as Aussie Tisse in Sydney's Northern Suburbs.

Difference is, as he was older, Kobe actually remembers it, has photos etc.

Oh, also Kobe was making Team USA lol.

Would it be "just" if Shaq repped Deutscheland in '96 teaming up with Detlef to give Dream Team 3 a giant Bratwurst sized PITA lol. Or in '04 to help Dirk Diggle the Argentine down to a silver medal?

Let's not start with Kobe repping Italia lol

Reply #895351 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

Kobe, *aged 6 to 13*

Reply #895352 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last month

Roster looking like

Rubio - Llull - Fernandez
Brown - Abrines
Abalde - Arostegui
Mirotic - Saldama - Claver or Saiz
Ibaka - Hernangomez or Hernangomez or Garuba

Pretty depleted squad these days.


Reply #895353 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

The rules around naturalising should be centred around residency - same as tax purposes.

I mean the goal is to pit one nation's level of talent against other nation's, not to see who can Blue Chip style recruit randoms..

In the Cal, Loggins, Grace era it was fine - imports stuck around and were never going back to the States as they clearly had made a life here. That may be the case for Cotton but still it does open the gates for guys like Darnell who get citizenship, but shortly after playing - have nothing to do with Australia.

Naturalising imports - all it really means is they "live" here when playing, 26 weeks of a year for as long as they can get good gigs. No tax file number, not an Australian resident for tax purposes even.

More references:

Hakeem lived in Nigeria from 0-18
Ewing lived in Jamaica from 0-13
Nique lived in France from 0-circa 13

All obviously played for Team USA because they can, not deflected to their "home nation" when they didn't have a spot, or what you would call doing a Tisse.

Reply #895356 | Report this post


Mat B  
Last month

"One lived from age 2-7, in Australia, because his obviously tertiary qualified engineer father wanted a tree change and got sponsored to work there..

the other guys sort of needed to leave because...war torn"

The fact is, Thyblle lived here long enough to gain citizenship and on that basis, is a legal dual citizen.
He did that at the time with no intention of using it as a shortcut way to represent Australia in the Olympics- it was for the love of Australia alone.
He still speaks of his memories of learning to swim in the beaches of Sydney as a kid.

I'm not in any way downplaying the utter tragedy of what's happened in South Sudan.
I'm simply saying that it highly likely that some members of the team have never been there in their life, similar to the Nigerian Olympic team.

So on that basis - either being born in the country or having lived long enough to be a citizen, Thyblle is totally legitimate to represent Australia at international level.

In the case of Lorenzo Brown, it's *clearly* apparent that his citizenship was fast-tracked and facilitated by the governing basketball body in order to maintain a point guard standard as quickly as possible.
Interesting that in the article I linked, existing Spanish players are critical of the process

Reply #895367 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

Naturalising imports - all it really means is they "live" here when playing, 26 weeks of a year for as long as they can get good gigs. No tax file number, not an Australian resident for tax purposes even.

Huh? You can't work in Australia without a tax file number.

Reply #895368 | Report this post


Mat B  
Last month

Thyblle also said that given the option to play for either USA or Australia, USA would not even be a consideration.

Reply #895373 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

:)

Do you really think he would? If Popp put him in the extended squad and told him outright, "you're making the 12" do you really think he would turn that down?

Do you also realise, he can't really just formally state publically, "yeah nah, obviously Team USA would be nice, but I am going to take a guaranteed roster spot over a maybe, because I want to hoop".

It's truly ridiculous - hoopers are hoopers.

Born in the States, and treat hoopin as their employment. They don't attach themselves to where they play lol - "we" (meaning vicarious Boomer fans) are lucky Cotton's woman resided in Australia.

Had he, inshallah, fallen in love with someone during his Turkey gig, or a beautiful Italian bella in his Italy gig, it would be those nations salivating for years about the prospect of him "naturalising". If you're on of those fans - you're pretty much as lame as a retarded Filipino fan Gil-Ass fan that keeps hoping and praying that FIBA approve Jordan Clarkson lol.

Lorenzo Brown, Mike Tobey - they play all around the world to earn money hoopin. If a nation is desperate enough to throw a passport at them for the trivial purpose of repping them for a basketball event, they take it.

Takes a special 'tard though to think that that's somehow a show of outright devotion to the country itself lol

Yes I'm sure Jerome Randlenko was mighty affected by the political happenings in the Ukraine (not Lithuania as posted earler lol, soz).

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Perthworld  
Last month

Yes I'm sure Jerome Randlenko was mighty affected by the political happenings in the Ukraine (not Lithuania as posted earler lol, soz).

He escaped Ukraine at the onset of war even though it was illegal for local males of conscription age to leave the country. Sorry but if naturalised you take the good with the bad and not just cherry pick what you get out of it, he is a coward.

Reply #895403 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

That's exactly what I mean - these guys naturalise to play sport - nothing else.

But you get all these fan bois that somehow try to sell the idea that Thybulle had a deep, burning desire to rep the green and gold. That Cotton is enamoured with the beautiful state of Western Australia and wants nothing more than to back Patty Mills up for 10-15 minutes, over a 2 week tourney.

So much LOLz.

Even winning Rose Gold, if you're a real one, you know exactly how hollow it is, punctuated heavily by how pivotal Thybulle was to getting over the hump, and putting into context how garbage it is that he was even playing.

Reply #895406 | Report this post


Mat B  
Last month

Thyblle toured Australia in 2016 as part of the Pac 10 college rep team.
He spoke back then of wanting to play for Australia.

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WillyBalls25  
Last month

LOL I won't crush your dreams - if you still want to believe in the tooth fairy, who am I to intervene.

This is probably what you are referring to. It mentions that of the Pac-12 All Stars, only one student-athlete, ol' Aussie 'Tisse, had "visited Australia" before.

3 years later, with a potential Olympic singlet looming, "once visited Australia" successfully transitioned to "I lived there about 7 years, I loved it, I remember everything, I'll eat vegemite if I have to, I was really sad when they axed Agro's Cartoon Connection, and was gutted when Dr. Karl cheated on Susan with Nicola Charles (dayum, she thiccc tho).

https://pac-12.com/article/2016/07/15/pac-12-all-stars-end-trip-australia-new-friendships-insights

Reply #895413 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

We milk "Aussie-ness" for whatever we can get, it cheapens the game.

Throwback to SEM's inception, when they absolutely milked Aussie-ness and made it an absolute joke:

-Aussie Kendall Stephens, played without taking an import spot; no passport; link to Australia - born here and lived here for 45 seconds when dad Everette was an import. This means Kyrie, if he chose to could play in the NBL as a local lol.

-Chiba Moneke almost getting to pay as a local until a last minute "oh wait, hold up sorry, no passport, I Nigerian" then turns up on their national team lol.

Just wasn't much noise as neither had much game to really speak about or make a significant difference...

Reply #895414 | Report this post


NBLTigers  
Last month

This is a joke by Fiba letting Brown play for the Spanish National team! :@

Reply #895415 | Report this post


Mat B  
Last month

"This is probably what you are referring to"
No. It was a video interview where he said in 2016 he would play for Australia if given the opportunity.

"we milk Aussieness"

So, 6 players in the current South Sudan team were not born there, and its extremely unlikely they ever visited there.
The numbers for the Nigerian team are higher
Willl you be calling out their lack "Africanness" for having been born in Alaska, USA, etc? Of course not.

Thyblle lived in Australia for 7 years. He's a citizen simple.

Many African players are representing 'their' country on the basis of their parents being from there.
If that's OK, then Thyblle more than reasonably qualifies to play for Australia.

It has nothing to do with a "fan boi" (nice attempted insult), its about consistency of criteria.

Reply #895417 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

but it's ok for Australia to have zero restrictions on how many South Sudanese refugees we have on the roster; many of whom moved fled war-torn Sudan as young children, nurtured their game in Australia (under the watchful, completely credible eyes of Ed Smith obviously) who then piss right off in their early teens and live 0 days of the year in the Commonwealth of Australia (unless they have a paying NBL gig)

if they're good, "we" claim them, local of course because refugee/completely legit

if they're of no benefit, we send them to Lebanon (Ater Majok) or back to play four South Sudan

seems legit..

also, we bank on 90s imports making their babies here, preferably with an Australian citizen (Exum, Simmons) to create hopeful starts (and even better if they have no "back" issues") or at least having their babies born here for the 180 days they're here, so we have "local" options.

It's all a bit of a joke lol

As love-able as he is, even Drewy was so vocal with his "surely someone high up can expedite Bryce's application". I get his passion and desire to see the Boomers succeed...but what's credible anymore?

Reply #895418 | Report this post


Mat B  
Last month

"but it's ok for Australia to have zero restrictions on how many South Sudanese refugees we have on the roster"
Dude. They're citizens. Simple.

"also, we bank on 90s imports making their babies here, preferably with an Australian citizen"
you got any idea how crude you're being now?

Reply #895419 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

Aussie 'Tisse didn't choose to live here though. He genuinely doesn't even remember it being 2-7 yrs of age (claimed).

His dad moved here and brought his children with him.

It's not where you're from it's where ya at.

I don't concern myself with what South Sudan or Nigeria are doing - also they are so far off from making any real noise, Australia has always been knocking at the upper echelon.

But to me, that was credible when we had "no name" NBL guys punching above their weight and knocking off powerhouses like Croatia in the 90s...

Does no one care how silly the deal is with South Sudan players? If they're up to scratch, they get to play for Australia (Thon Maker, Reath); and if they're not they go back to South Sudan (Kuany Kuany, Deng Acuouth, Mathiang Muo).

So you basically get to double dip and also get the benefit of still having a local NBL gig...

Reply #895420 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

Mat, serious question, do you 100% believe that if Popp told Thybulle, at the exact time that the Boomers opened talks, that he was a shoe in to start or make the USA 12, that he would have knocked it back?

Reply #895422 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

also Mat, your South Sudan/Nigeria example raises an interesting philosophical viewpoint but I am hoping you can look at it objectively.

You're singling out third world nations, which have bolstered their lineups with talented, US born players who have direct heritage (parents born in those countries) to the country they choose to play for.

I don't know where you reside but in Australia, most "immigrants" be it first or even up to fourth generation, still identify as being from their family's nation of origin. Even if they were born here, and have or have not visited "home", you will here, "I'm Croatian/ Serbian/ India/ Viet/ Filipino" etc. Applies even to "Aussie ballers" like Bogut and Maric etc...

So who then decides what's more "valid".

An American born to Nigerian parents choosing to rep "home"; or an American born to American parents, but lived briefly in Australia..

Sudan's one also raises possible loophole for them dodgy Filipinos.

They have a tonne of athletes with Filipino mothers etc...

it's funny, they clear it when the player is a scrub (Joe Devance, I know I know, who?) but give them grief when it's a player who can make a genuine difference (Clarkson, Green).

Reply #895424 | Report this post


Mat B  
Last month

"You're singling out third world nations, which have bolstered their lineups with talented, US born players who have direct heritage (parents born in those countries) to the country they choose to play for."

They are not citizens of the country. They were not born there, nor have they lived there.
FIBA has clearly tweaked the criteria in this case to allow for people of said country's parental origin to represent them.
On that basis, I could play for Scotland or Ireland, although Ive never been to either country and was born in Australia. That would be ridiculous.

"So who then decides what's more "valid"
It easy actually. it's called citizenship. Each country has a definition of it.
All FIBA needs to do is agree on and apply the exact same criteria to every country.

Reply #895439 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

I think it's cute that you refuse to answer, "do you really think Thybulle would have opted for the Boomers if Pop gave him a Team USA roster spot?"...

so you are saying that:

Ike Diogu, of Nigerian descent, with both Nigerian parents, having strong links to a particular Nigerian tribe, who was born in the US, 3 years after his parents settled there for a better life, who upheld his Nigerian roots (food, customs, etc) is LESS NIGERIAN than Thybulle is Australian?

Purely because Aussie Tisse (of a Haitian father, and a Caucasian American mother) lived here for 7 yrs as a child (reportedly) and obtained a passport (to travel back to the US lol)???

Seems legit

If your argument then that the Boomers can stack their roster with as many Sudanese players (so long as they're more Duop Reath than Deng Acuoth) because they're "citizens" then you have to accept that Slovenia will turn Mike Tobey into Mike Toncic; Ukraine's favourite war hero Jerome Randlenko and now Spain's Lorenzo Marron.

It's a grey and pretty shitty rule for everyone - you can't bag other countries and then turn a blind eye when Australia Thybulles or Sudans it up.

Reply #895445 | Report this post


Mat B  
Last month

I'll say it again.
FIBA has tweaked the criteria to include people who are not citizens of a country, and are allowing people to represent on the basis of heritage. In that caseI cold play for 2 countries I've never been to.

"I think it's cute that you refuse to answer, "do you really think Thybulle would have opted for the Boomers if Pop gave him a Team USA roster spot?"..."
No, it's just a futile hypothetical which is highly speculative at best.

"lived here for 7 yrs as a child (reportedly) and obtained a passport (to travel back to the US lol)???"
No, he has dual citizenship, which by definition means that he's an Australian citizen. Again, quite simple, and legally defined.

"If your argument then that the Boomers can stack their roster with as many Sudanese players (so long as they're more Duop Reath than Deng Acuoth) because they're "citizens"
What Im saying is that if a Sudanese person is an Australian citizen having qualified and been granted citizenship through the standard time frame etc, then they (or anyone) can play for the country of which they are a citizen.

Reply #895446 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

FIBA did it because it's in the interest of competition.

The Nigerian-Americans clearly have a wholesome, genuine link to their culture. Far more than Thybulle every could have to Australian culture.

Strengthening African based teams fosters growth, competitiveness, interest in the game - and allows even more talented players to play international basketball than if they blatantly state that all Nigerian-Americans had to play for the US only.

Having teams that are already competitive, and have been for decades - find isolated Thybulle type scenarios is completely different.

But hey, if having Sudanese refugees (I don't have a problem with it at all, just the aforementioned stupidity of them then having a fall back to play for Sudan if not Boomer worthy) and Thybulles makes you feel better about rocking your jersey, go for (rose) gold.

Reply #895447 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

Also, none of this would matter so much if Thybulle was a bit player which he clearly wasn't. He Scottie Pippen'd himself all the way to that elusive medal which makes it even more cringey and hollow.

Much like winning a C Grade social championship with a ring in from the local rep program, because rep guy was friends with the C Grade guy when they were 2-7 yrs of age and felt a deep connection to the C grade life lol...

Reply #895448 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

It seems like you are saying Mat:

-That Sudanese players who mostly moved to Australia pre-teen to seek asylum; can play for Australia if they are good enough because it's "legal" and they are "citizens"; but in the even that they are not good enough, it's still ok for them to play in the NBL as locals, but also acceptable for them to now rep Sudan in international play.

-that Nigerian players, who were born in the USA to first generation Nigerian parents, shouldn't be allowed to rep Nigeria in the event that they aren't good enough for Team USA, because they have never been there; are not "citizens"; it's not "legal" and they have "no links" to that country.

It seems to me you're OK with things so long as it aids the Boomers (ie having access to a greater talent pool) and not so OK with it if creates a hindrance (ie a team coming out of nowhere to suddenly posing somewhat of a threat)....

Reply #895450 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

So Sudanese players, who unfortunately had to live through the Second Sudanese Civil War get TWO chances at making an international team; but Nigerian players should only get one because their parents chose to birth them in the USA and only moved to escape poverty and dire living conditions, not an actual war.

Seems legit...

Reply #895451 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

So Sudanese players, who unfortunately had to live through the Second Sudanese Civil War get TWO chances at making an international team; but Nigerian players should only get one because their parents chose to birth them in the USA and only moved to escape poverty and dire living conditions, not an actual war.

Seems legit...

Reply #895452 | Report this post


Perthworld  
Last month

WillyBalls25's constant Neighbours references are disturbing.

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Mat B  
Last month

Thyblle is one player in one team.
The South Sudan team has 6 players who weren't born there, nor have lived there.
Not even comparable.

I love that they're doing well, bringing inspiration to people in South Sudan.

In the case of Nigeria, there were Nigerians in nigeriacritical of the selection criteria.
What I'm saying is, that if you criticise Thyblle's place on the Aust team, being a legal citizen of the country, having lived here as a kid (and yes, he has memories etc), and yet see it as totally ok that a large Number of Nigerians who aren't citizens and who don't and havent lived there can represent the country on the basis on their parents being from there.

The two are not comparable.
The latter deprives more citizens of the country of playing for the national team.



Reply #895485 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

The theme of your argument seems to be all over the place.

Any consideration for African nations has to go a little bit beyond "legality" or being "granted citozenship" particularly with all the intricacies of showing sensitivity to the situation (seeking asylum); being a third world country; issues with documentation etc.

You seem to have no issue with Sudanese non-Boomer standard players (generally born late 90s, migrated to Australia mid 00s, would happily move to the US if they were good enough to play NCAA or get a gig) playing for Sudan, but still being NBL "locals"; and those that are Boomer standard in your view, should be stacked on the roster liberally with no conscience...

yet then seem to take issue that the same aged Sudanese, but born in the USA late 90s and according to you "never been back to Sudan" (without acknowledging the silliness of expecting refugees to return to the war torn nation they fled from lol) is "wrongly" playing for Sudan - what are you proposing exactly?

It seems you only take issue with African players who are US born (so basically, good enough to get/hold NCAA gigs for 4 years) who then revert back to their national team;

but are a pure advocate of high level Sudanese-Australians playing for the Boomers; then having the Sudan Team as a back up if they aren't good enough.

Can you see how this might be interpreted as being quite Boomer-centric?

You'll wash it off as a "hypothetical" but here goes:

Kobe Bean Bryant lived in Italy for 7 years. Granted was much older than Thybulle. He went to school, learned the language, hooped. Willingly and open acknowledges that he went there for Dad's work.

Thybulle lived i Australia 7 years, much younger age. Possibly might have done 1-2 years of primary school here. Didn't so much as walk into North Sydney Bears Basketball to play Saturday Toddler Hoops. Had nothing to do with the NBL or its lower tiered programs. Made no trips back here to network with old coaches or hang with future Boomers.

Only entered radar after he was drafted by Philly, talked to Brett Brown and started formulating his "I'll eat vegemite if I have to" defense.

In the Pac-12 All Star link I posted earlier, he, in 2016 literally verbatim was quoted "I once visited Australia".

Now...

if Italy in 2000 was fringe medal, and say Kobe wasn't Kobe and was closer to Caron Butler quality. Italy badly needed some Tough Juice to mix with their al dente fettucine in 2000 to get them from perennial QF finishes to that Rose Gold. Beanicci Butlerrino plays pretty much a starring role in the Bronze game to knock off Australia...

Australian basketball forums would never ever cease bagging Italy out..

We're lucky Argentina already had accomplishments and that their fans probably just thought ol' Aussie 'Tisse was Indigenous..

Hollow Rose Gold for life.

Reply #895578 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

We live in the age of "I identify as" right"

Whether born in NYC or not, walk up to a random Nigerian in Brownsville, NY, ask him if he's American or Nigerian lol.

Same thing with any Sudanese-Australian whether baller level and has travelled the world, or your plain ol' Dandenong All Star, they'll say Sudanese.

And that's fine.

Aussie 'Tisse conveniently, from late 2019 onwards going "I identify as Strayan mate" to help seal Rose Gold is like Dennis Rodman donning his wedding dress and identifying as female to Juwanna Mann him/herself to a dominating 88 rebound performance over Coops and her Comets...

Reply #895579 | Report this post


Anonymightymouse  
Last month

Thybulle lived in Australia for 7 years. Slight difference to countries who pay someone to play for them and get citizenship handed to them.

Reply #895584 | Report this post


Mat B  
Last month

Willy, you're making a lot of assumptions about what my views are. You say "It seems you think.....is ok" etc.
I've already stated my point.
Thyblle is a legal citizen, and his selection was completely within the long standing fiba criteria.
He spoke of playing for Australia prior to being drafted into the NBA.
It's also hypothetical to assume Australia wouldn't have medaled without him. There's a number of similar players that could've played his role to an adequate degree.


Again, I love that south Sudan is doing well and if fiba is going to continue to tweak or even change the rules around that to allow 2nd generation players, so be it.

Again, by your logic, I could play for Scotland having an ancestral connection to the place although I was born in Australia and have never been to Scotland. Sure the locals would be likely annoyed if 7 of us did the same thing.

Anyway, it's a very grey area and if as you say - "We live in the age of "I identify as" right" - then there'll need to be a clear and consistent criteria going forward.

Anonymightymouse
"Thybulle lived in Australia for 7 years. Slight difference to countries who pay someone to play for them and get citizenship handed to them."

Exactly

Reply #895606 | Report this post


Weedy Slug  
Last month

https://basketnews.com/news-174917-rudy-fernandez-on-lorenzo-browns-addition-to-spanish-nt-it-doesnt-seem-right-to-me.html

Reply #895610 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

Hi Mat B been awhile

By my logic you could play for Scotland? Are you likening your familial lineage to Scotland to that of Ike Diogu and many other proud "American citizens" of clear Nigerian heritage?

These guys

-have physical features, names etc consistent with majority of the rest of the Nigerian population

-often belong to a proud, well documented tribe with strongly upheld customs/values and traditions - in Diogu's case, the Igbo ethnic group, along with 35 million others

-are second generation immigrants; their grandparents and older, would all be based in Nigeria

are you still going to argue that by virtue of being physically born on US soil that they are "less Nigerian" that Thybulle is "Australian"?

Coz I found more for you

1. Thybulle in 2016 when touring Australia states that "he once visited Australia"

https://pac-12.com/article/2016/07/15/pac-12-all-stars-end-trip-australia-new-friendships-insights

2. Father Greg, attests in several interviews and media that he was an avid traveller - the name Matisse was inspired by his backpacker days in Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLcnIhK8nU&t=197s

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/basketball/nba-star-matisse-thybulle-is-embracing-his-inner-boomer-20210720-p58bf4.html

3. Greg, a well educated American man (NY, by way of Haiti), worked for Hewlett Packard - they afforded him the opportunity to travel, he chose Australia, with wife Elizabeth, a Doctor. It wasn't quoted as "7 years" until 2019, prior to that it was either "for a while when he was young".

In 2019, Brett Brown initiated the Thybulle to Boomers talk when learning of his passport/citizenship.

By Matisse's admission, they never cared for the value of "dual citizenship" but Greg insisted it would come in handy one day.

The school Thybulle attended for 1-2 years (North Sydney Demonstration School) is reserved for those with means, and they resided in Sydney's North Shore, an affluent area.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/basketball/nba-star-matisse-thybulle-is-embracing-his-inner-boomer-20210720-p58bf4.html

https://www.zoominfo.com/p/Greg-Thybulle/3327350334

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/12/16/22839458/matisse-thybulle-philadelphia-76ers

4. A lot of them are blocked by pay walls, but articles come up regarding Greg Thybulle, Hewlett Packard, where the preview denotes "Greg Thybulle, manager of Seattle HP" - leading one to believe that he may have been traversing between Seattle, WA and NSW, Australia in the "7 year period" they claim to have been living here.

If you still see this is a "fair dinkum" migration and not a massive loophole exploitation, while mocking other nation's and their attempts to level up, I can't really help ya...

Greg could easily have selected the UK, Canada, NZ - you vicarious fans truly need to give Greg, and to a larger extent Hewlett Packard, their flowers.

In fact, henceforth, they should be referred to as the Hewlett Packard Boomers.

I also like how Mat B tries to palm it off with "Thybulle is one player for one team whilst *INSERT other African country here* blah blah.

Thybulle broke Gary Payton's Pac-10 Steals Record. He led the Olympic tourney in steals with 3 per game (4.7 per 36min). He provided a very particular role, and any real hooper knows what Bogut or Lemanis or anyone is talking about when they say things like

"yeah Dante, Ben, Xav, Matisse, they all offer something we've never really had"...


Shoot, in 2014 Andrej was almost blunt, "we've got a crop of young kids whose fathers were out here as imports initially, and then stayed in Australia and formed their families here". You think I'm crude when I say "make their babies here", Andrej phrased it differently with almost the exact same implied meaning lol.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/thon-maker-impresses-boomers-coach/4j15nv7au

Lastly. article here of the 2016 Pac-12 All Stars; no mention of Matisse being "Aussie"...hmmm

https://pickandroll.com.au/p/boomers-take-pac-12-college-stars


Reply #896171 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

So basically:

-you're opposed to Nigerian players, with clearly Nigerian roots, parents, grandparents, great grandparents, great great grandparents; traceable roots to that nation's rich heritage and practices

playing for Nigeria, because their parents, who in most cases migrated for a better life or to get away from poverty?

But:

-a privileged mixed race kid from the US (mother from Washington state, father who is a citizen of the World) is DEFINITELY Australian because his passport obtained in Australia (around about the time he was learning to read probably) says he is?

And your nail in the coffin argument is that because the Nigerian player (or Sudanese) has not set foot again in the country his parents left (to escape trivial things like bombs and stuff); and conversely Thybulle "lived" in Australia?

To quote the late, great Kobe Bean, that's a Bikram Yoga stretch.

Summary:

Sometime in the 80s or 90s:

-Greg Thybulle obtains Masters Degree in Engineering
-Elizabeth Thybulle obtains Doctorate

1997 - birth of Aussie Matisse

1999 - [in hoighty toighty pseudo French accent]

Greg: "Madame Elizabeth, let us venture to the Great Southern Land, for I long of pies containing meat and rolls derived from sausage.

Elizabeth: "Yeah OK".

Greg: "au revoir Washington, bonjour Waverton".

HP: "look man, you good for 'bout 3, 4, 5 years, but you still gots to meet your KPIs and travel around the world and stuff, you can base yourself wherever man, just keep us in front of DELL. Only Dell we rockin with is Curry. He wife is foine foine".

Greg: "I gotchu fam".

2006

Greg: "madammeoiselle, it's Ok here, but my kids are clearly black, and this place is OK, the coffee is so so, and the folks are pretty much just as racist, maybe even slightly more as back home. The beaches are good and everything, but man I am not rockin with the homeboys and their, how do they say it, boojee smugglers. I think I'm ready to go back home".

Elizabeth: "Yeah OK".

Greg: "The kids do have dual citizenship now though, I made sure of it. With Bush, and any potential Global Financial Crisis, I want to make sure the kids have options.

Elizabeth: "Yeah OK".

Hewlett Packard, Greg Thybulle they are your real MVPs.

Reply #896173 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

Lastly, he was born in Oakland, but clearly identifies as being from Wakanda.

And who are we to ever tell Michael Jordan he is wrong...even if it's the B-side.

Reply #896174 | Report this post


WillyBalls25  
Last month

Further re: Aussie 'Tisse

Where was he in the 2016 Boomer extended squad? Did he ask to train with the group to try and make the team? I'm pretty certain his name was never ever mentioned, until he was actually drafted and became a noteworthy standard...

An Australian citizen residing overseas (which Matisse has done for 75-8%% of his live, because he loves Australia so much), dual citizen or otherwise, is not required to vote. They have to manually request to etc.

He and dad were super vocal in the US, rockin "VOTE" on his jersey, multiple social media posts about it.

In the 7 years he has been eligible to actually vote in Australia (the nation he loves so much lol), how many times do you think he has voted?

Do you think he is familiar with Adam Morrison and his economic policies? LOL.

Reply #896187 | Report this post




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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 9:30 pm, Fri 12 Aug 2022 | Posts: 925,872 | Last 7 days: 464