Kobe now has 52 compared to 58 for the whole dallas team.

At 3/4 time Kobe is actually in front of teh Mavs 62 - 61 on his own!

Kobe finished with 62, not playing a single minute in the 4th Qtr

I said he is the best SG in the League

Anyone else wanna say he isnt

That's crazy when was the last time a player had more points than the opposite team at 3/4 time.

How many points did the rest of the Lakers score?

Lakers won 112 - 90

Kobe had 62....no other Laker scored in double figures

Anb before anyone says a word....(like Kobe is a ball hog)....WHO gives a shit when you win

Im sure the Bulls didnt give a shit when Jordan scored his 60+ points

Kobe is actually averaging 4.6 assists per game - second on the team so he is spreading the ball around a fair bit.
Plus as Fez said - who cares when your win!

Thanks Statman

Look at our recent Road Trip

We went 5-1 and there was one game Kobe had 11pts and 9 ass

He is the best SG in the league

NO-ONE compares

Hmmm I suppose that depends if you class Iverson as a SG. Whie I am not a fan of his at all and have no interest in the 76ers I must say that Iverson is at least Kobes equal (so far this season at least)

Iverson is a SG playing PG for his team.......and yes, Iverson is posting better stats than Kobe, but
He has the ball in his hands alot more as he is the one running the plays

As u can see, Kobe is SOOO much better than AI who sucks!!! Go timberwolves

hey just because Kobe played a good game suddenly doesnt make him the best SG. When he's as good as Wade (and as efficient) give me a call.

Oh please. Kobe's massive score means he's a hog and the Lakers are useless. Maybe you lot should check out this for efficiency and skill.

Player, team Gm 3FG M Dunks Blk Stl Minus PF Total
Shawn Marion, Phoenix 23 24 52 48 40 63 101
LeBron James, Cleveland 22 35 32 21 33 59 62
Rashard Lewis, Seattle 22 51 14 18 33 55 61
Gerald Wallace, Charlotte 16 10 22 20 33 41 44
Jason Richardson, G. State 24 44 30 12 28 72 42
Smush Parker, L.A. Lakers 24 38 13 6 41 58 40
Baron Davis, Golden State 23 49 12 4 42 70 37
Vince Carter, New Jersey 22 35 24 17 26 74 28
Ricky Davis, Boston 23 21 19 5 32 51 26
Luol Deng, Chicago 23 10 17 11 20 32 26
Andre Iguodala, Phila. 25 14 39 8 40 75 26

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2005-12-19-scorers-table_x.htm

According to this ... Shawn Marion is the most efficient player in the NBA ... you guys chant James, Wade, Bryant, Garnett ... bout time you guys realised who REALLY runs the show lol

spot on 31. Look at detroit - they have only lost 3 games and there is no real standout. Their backcourt has no all stars and they spread the load to win, like spurs.

You must be kidding 31........

Since when does scoring 10 points via way of dunks make you a better player than someone who hits 5 layups? Sure 3pt%, steals and blocks are important but what about assists, rebounding and heaven forbid total points scored!

While I agree that Marion is a great player and doing exceptionally well this year to say he is 40% better better than anyone else in the league is a joke!

First of all Statman ... that isn't my imagination ... they are stats this year ... now ... you want the stats on some players as compared with Marion? I'll show you lol:

Shawn Marion Lebron James

PPG 19.7 PPG 30.7
RPG 11.8 RPG 5.9
APG 1.8 APG 5.3
SPG 1.71 SPG 1.57
BPG 2.17 BPG 1.00
FG% .487 FG% .504
FT% .702 FT% .793
3P% .299 3P% .360
MPG 39.9 MPG 41.1


Kobe Bryant Kevin Garnett

PPG 32.5 PPG 21.9
RPG 5.4 RPG 10.6
APG 4.3 APG 4.9
SPG 1.28 SPG 1.36
BPG .48 BPG 1.45
FG% .448 FG% .532
FT% .822 FT% .762
3P% .315 3P% .429
MPG 39.9 MPG 39.8


So Statman, using those stats, i would say my post is pretty much backed up. Marion out ranks: Shaq, the Wallace brothers (sorry Tyler i do like your Pistions though), Dwayne Wade, etc. Only player i found who goes over his head is Tim Duncan (no pun intended). So if you look though at the DSG stats provided, you'll see Statman, that in fact I am damn right and Marion's 2005/06 stats back that assessment up.

The NBA Efficiency Rankings are:

Brand
KG
LBJ
TD
Camby
Wade
AI
PP
Marion --- 9th...
Dirk

He's not the best SG in the league Anon. He plays in a team with limited across the board talent. That's why Detroit, Dallas and San Antonio are as good as they are

So there are two sides to everything lol, very well done Isaac. Can't dispute those stats, as you can't dispute mine. Differing points of view create for great debate.

Anon that's a pretty big statement to make considering it is recognised world-wide that Michael Jordan is one of the most influential athletes to have graced any sport let alone basketball.

Kobe Bryant would not match up against Michael Jordan, they aren't even in the same league (of skill). Jordan would have stripped the ball off him before Kobe would have said boo. If Kobe is going so well why aren't the Lakers atop the Pacific Division?

So 31 using your stats as above Marion is only doing better than Lebron in steals blocks and rebounds and the only catagory where he has a big advantage being rebounding. The fact that Lebron is outscoring Marion by over 10ppg also seems to have been missed by you!

So as for your statement that these figures back up your original claims i think they actually show that Lebron James is a more productive player at thois stage of the season

So 31 using your stats as above Marion is only doing better than Lebron in steals blocks and rebounds and the only catagory where he has a big advantage being rebounding. The fact that Lebron is outscoring Marion by over 10ppg also seems to have been missed by you!

So as for your statement that these figures back up your original claims i think they actually show that Lebron James is a more productive player at thois stage of the season

Kobe is definately not better than Iverson. He is not even as good as Lebron.
Stats do tell the truth in this case. The only thing Kobe has over Iverson is rebounding, blocks and free throws. And do we really expect a guy 6 foot to get more rebs and blocks than a 6'6 guy?
Lebron gets more rpg, apg, bpg, and spg, and they both shoot a better percentage from the floor, including from three from than Bryant.
I'd even rather take DWade than Kobe. The only thing Kobe has on these guys (apart from Iverson) is scoring, and yet most people come to his defence by saying he has to carry this LA team and do all their scoring. Then why isnt he the NBA leading scorer by a mile, and why doesnt he get more than 5 assists like the other three?
I used to like Kobe, I used to love the Lakers, but I am over him, and sick of everyone saying that he is the best player in the league.

Statman, they are indeed two different kinds of player. Lebron James is a playmaker, Marion is more of a defensive player who is not called "the Matrix" for no reason.

Marion is a stronger defensive player than James, given he is 6'7 and i believe James is 6'8 and is bigger than Marion, i also do believe.

If James is so brilliant why aren't the Cavs winning their division instead of sitting in third? What's more it's not an overly strong division either.

The reason the Suns, the Mavs, the Spurs and the Pistons do so well is they are not heavily reliant on one brilliant player to call the shots. They are champion teams ... not a reliant on one or two for results.

James IS a VERY gifted player, one of the best in the league in the top five, but Marion is probably the most underrated player in the NBA. He IS a champion player as well. I just wish you would give players like that their due kudos.

Twenty-four, I agree with your assessment of Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson is a very talented player and has been for years, but there are shorter forwards out-rebounding taller forwards. It's all in the jumping ability mate. Bryant is selfish, James and Iverson are obviously not. As for my man Marion, well he's brilliant in his own way.

31 - i am more than happy to say that Marion is an awesome player, and posting awesome numbers. he is a superstar - no argument here. I however dont think that he is 40% better than the next best player in the league as your first post alluded to.

My argument started against your favoured efficiency rating system and i still thimk it ridiculous that your method was awarding points for dunks and leaving out such stat catagories as assists and rebounds.

Furthermore your questions of if James and Kobe are so good why arnt their tems atop their divisions is pretty well answered in your last post
"The reason the Suns, the Mavs, the Spurs and the Pistons do so well is they are not heavily reliant on one brilliant player to call the shots. They are champion teams ... not a reliant on one or two for results."
Although the Suns rely on one S Nash very very heavily and results last yera while he was injured will confirm this!

Oh and fyi 31 my last post was made while wearing a purple and orange singlet with 31 on front and back as bought overseas at the nba store - so I too am a big fan of 'The Martix'

Right its beer oclock and time for some Christmas cheer!

Statman just to ease a bit mate, I do think Lebron James is a very very talented player, and I do admire his shot making and versatility.

Well, see last season the Suns had Joe Johnson, Quentin Richardson, Amare Stoudemire and Marion to compliment Nash. They are all brilliant in their own right and can the 62-20 was no fluke.

This season, the Suns i believe in their last game against the Sonics, Nash had a shocker and they still spanked them, Boris Diaw and Eddie House seemed to light things up a bit to ease the pressure on Nash. I wasn't aware that those two players were of a standard to match it with the best teams but they seem to be.

Glad to see Statman you are a fan of the Matrix, he's a brilliant player, he is my fave, guess I just see so much publicity given to players like James, Wade, Shaq and Bryant that it was time to bring the Matrix into the picture. Good debate mate, Merry Christmas and keep an eye on that Spurs / Pistons game.

twenty four...Kobe's assists are down from last year's very solid average for 3 reasons :

1) He is shooting more. No arguments here.

2) The Lakers are playing a triangle, which doesn't create as many assists as other offensive systems. Look at the numbers of Phil Jackson's teams over the years, and their leading assist person was hardly ever in the leagues top 10. And some of those teams were the greatest of all time!

3) Odom is taking over more of the play making from Kobe this season than last. That has been a fundamental change in the Lakers offense this season. Kobe still does a lot of the play making, but far less than last year.

Hey 31......were Kobes Stats better for you today.....21pts, 9 ass

Man ....this bloke can do it all

He is no Jordan, but he will be in the Hall of Fame way before Marion ever is

Anon you persist with this idea that Kobe Bryant can match it with Michael Jordan. Well can't help you there, you've made up your mind and that's fine. Just don't expect many people to agree with you.

Fez, in Isaac's efficiency stats Kobe Bryant is not up there in the top ten. Marion IS. Marion is well-endowed across the board, albeit his defensive capabilities shine more than his offensive. Bryant is solely an offensive hog.

Consider Marion's height. He plays either small forward or power forward and does pretty well in both positions. I've heard tales that Bryant is not suited to point.

If they let an offensive hog like Bryant into the hall of fame then there is something wrong with the system. Marion might not make it, but he will always be a champion team player. After all he isn't called the Matrix for no reason.

HOW MANY ASSISTS DID KOBE GET TODAY?! whoever says he is a hog can shove it in their behind. Now THAT is christmas spirit!

Doc i don't see him amongst the ten most efficient players in the NBA at the moment, according to the stats. He leads a very ordinary side with limited capabilities.