Orlando

Sunshine, Woodville had one import for half of the season.
They DO NOT and will not have a import this season.

Woodville have in the past had imports, Kelvin Henderson, Donnie Gipson, Tryone Lee, Ken Boldt to name but a few, in that time, we have produced juniors like Paul Vandenbergh, Cameron Wilson, Scott Whitmore, Darren, Marcus and Ashley Ng, Zane Reeves, Greg Pascoe, Mark Fuller, Nathan Baggott, Tim Brenton should I go on.

We are placed or located in a stadium that is not friendly, it doesn't have the close to the action of a hillcrest or a Marion, and we are in a lower socio economic area than say Mitcham, Joslin, Athelstone, Urrbrae.

We are a working man's club, we can achieve, our 2000 and 2005 ABA championship were won with mainly home grown juniors.

Our program maybe a bit down now, but unfortunately life as well as basketball is bout ups and downs.

10 years ago Noarlunga Dominated SA Junior basketball, they are going (or southern are) a form slum.

there will always be the have's and the have not's.

there will always be winners and losers.

I find it offensive to read some comments on here about low white trash meaning Centrals, Southern or Woodville. I know that Woodville has it fair share of Lawyers, Doctors etc. Being rich or educated doesn't make you a better person or a better basketballer. you can be that whether you have money or brains. it is the person you are that matters.

I am proud to be associated with Woodville there is not another club I'd rather be with.

well said lyn, agree with u 100%

Get over yourselves!!!

This thread was not directed towards Woodville. I was merely making a point.

Every time sometime tries to discuss something topical every sensitive Woodville club person feels the need to have a cry. WE are fed up with your constant whinging about your disadvantages when it is a known fact BASA heavily subsidise your club!

GET OVER YOURSELVES!!

Stop making excuses and start acting like a real basketball club!

Losers find excuses and winners find solutions.

Orlando

I'll buy you might not have had directed it at Woodville, but you did use them as an example.


'Stop making excuses and start acting like a real basketball club!

Losers find excuses and winners find solutions.'

Current ABA Men's champions, oh but no we won that because we 'bought an import' for part of a season by your estimation that they were in the top two teams before he arrived obviously doesn't cut the mustard with you.

Many of Woodville juniors, Irene Soulatis for example starts for West, Sam Woosnam started her career with the Warriors.

Paul Vandenbergh, Jarrod Graves start for Centrals, both Woodville juniors. Oh but then again Centrals are another 'white trash club' in your eyes.

What would you want us to do, exterminate people on a lower income than a Norwood or a Sturt players household?

Come and talk to me sometime Orlando.

Hitler sounded a bit like you, he had a final solution.

You can not dictate the way people act, or how they behave.

You can not dictate how any club, unless you are President of said club, will behave.

You can not control the world, if Woodville or any other club chooses to run a club, with low fees so children can play basketball, you can't control it if a club wishes to charge high fees and employ a full time coaching director.

Orlando last time I looked you aren't God, get off your soapbox and control what your want to control.

Pardon me whilst I go, grab another beer, light up a fag, put on my navy singlet and go and steal a few hubcabs.

Isaac argghh you need to add a god damn I posted that before I proof read it feature.

Damn I hate it when need to clarify a post.


'Orlando last time I looked you aren't God, get off your soapbox and control what your can control not what you would like to.'

Wow, Godwin's Law in 6 posts!

Godwin's Law
As (an online) discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

:( sorry

Orlando, you asked a question because you did not know how clubs were being run or affected - Lyn gave you an answer - if you are not happy with this then I suggest that you get off your backside, roll up your sleeves and stroll in the door and help your club. I also think that maybe you should not comment on situations that you know nothing about - each club is different and doing their best - yes some are struggling but relying on working with the best people and ideas that they have. I agree you should be part of the solution. Maybe you could just be the 1/2 a brain that your club is looking for!! dont be negative, enjoy your game...

I think you're making the assumption that Orlando doesn't help their club. I don't know who Orlando is for sure, but I do know what they say about assumptions...

Lyn certainly had a point about comments posted in other topics regarding "Centrals, Southern or Woodville."

As for "shithouse" junior programs, there are a variety of reasons.

1 is that with the increased fees involved in junior basketball, parents want a bigger say in their kids program = fair enough.

But along with that comes the financial and decision-making accountability of the coaches - having to answer a lot more questions from parents regarding team makeup, etc.

As a parent - I would want this accountability.
As a coach - I believe it can affect the outcomes of the team.

This can in-turn lead to "shithouse" junior programs.

Parents are so helpful sometimes, but a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and parents with a little knowledge can cause so much trouble.

Hopefully, the focus of BSA clubs is to continue to develop our junior basketballers. I believe we (BSA clubs) "bat way above our average" when it comes to producing National/Australian/international players.

Keep up the good work!

Don't assume for a minute Isaac that we would make a judgement call on someone that we did not know - my family respect your forum and your efforts to basketball. My Wife and I know Orlando very well and he is very talented, our club, especially my son's team could do with his help! If the finances are not there, then the best assistance you can give your club is time.

bball fan, it would be nice to know who you were but I appreciate the comments.

The original thread was not suppose to be directed at any one particular club. I was interested to see what changes may occur at club level with the recent events in SA basketball.

I should probably not have given 1 specific example as there are many over mamy years that we can point to.

Lyn and Woodville club people in general, please relax and dont assume every thread in aleays about your club.

Orlando has left the building!

Hopefully, centrals and north to merge creating a powerhouse up north!

Orlando

I know not all threads are about Woodville. Nor are they all about Southern, or Centrals, Or Sturt or anyone.

I've been around basketball long enough to know there is good in bad in all clubs.

It simply annoys me greatly to see people jump on the bandwagon of trashing clubs, players and referees without thinking of the ramifications.

As someone rightly posted until BSA is restructured, until we all know exactly what is happening clubs can not make changes.

"Real basketball Clubs" in my time, West was a total powerhouse, closely followed by North. A few years back State Champs were dominated by NCT and Norwood.

Now we have Sturt and Forestville. Basketball as all sports should be for the enjoyment of the game. It should be in the best interest of the kids.

We need to be realistic and know that not all clubs will be equal, there has to be a heirachy, it happens through all walks of life.

Please try to be proactive in attempting to help what you perceive to be a problem. Negativity or comments like "why don't you become a real basketball club"

Also comments about the club being heavily subsided by BSA is just another one of those often repeated comments that people take for gospel.

Unless you happen to be on managment of any club, unless you are privy to Presidents meetings etc. you are only assuming and if you are on management etc you shouldn't be posted classified information.

I'm sure like myself there are hundreds of Southern, Centrals and Woodville people who are so sick of their clubs being attacked. That is probably why we get defensive. Just as you would if you felt you were constantly being attacked.

instead of knocking each other if people such as orlando who used woodville as specific focussed on the fact that each club is trying their hardest to do the best for the juniors/seniors etc.
Clubs that appear mighty now well done but the worms turns - you get complacent and the wheels can fall off - sturt /eagles/norwood seem to be getting it right - why not observe these clubs learn from them and then develop improveed programs anybody who thinks that happens overnight is crazy - the top clubs are reaping the rewards of work begun 5 years ago or so probably by members who have since moved on and who probably at the time where getting criticised
get proactive stop moaning dear orlando - you have got solutions post them- if it as simple as more money for the juniors then have you got the money because every club would love you and welcome you - indeed so would BSA

Orlando, all clubs spend money on their senior teams.

Woodville chose last season to put the money that is part of their salary cap $25,000 per club with only $15,000 to any one team ie $15,000 to the men $10,000 to the women.

Tell me exactly where Woodville is any different to any other club. Tell me how Forestville for example can have so many WNBL etc players and still be under their salary cap.

Others on here have often wondered. Where have we spent money on our office upgrade, our office is a atco hut! Think you are barking up the wrong tree there, besides ALL clubs spend money on adminstrative purposes.

Tell me exactly where Orlando does encouraging a working man club image promote a gangsta/feral/white trash image.

I'd start to chose your words wisely, I for one am university educated.

I was not insinuated there are blue blooded, simply stating a fact that some clubs can substaniate higher fees, because the come from a higher income bracket area. they can then with those higher fees have full time coaching directors.

I've been on management at Woodville I am pretty au fait with its history.

I would you to reconsider that Woodville has simply put money into its senior program or building an office and the deteriment of its juniors. It simply is not true.

For a while our junior boys with Jarrod Graves, Nathan Baggott, Darren Ng, Mark Fuller and others were strong. Our girls have suffered over the years. Now with Claire Christie, Sharna Breavington and Kahla Hardy coming through our girls are steadily improving. That is because hard work has been puts specifically in improving the girls. Perhaps and it only a perhaps the boys have suffered a bit in hindsight.

But I am not around the juniors enought to make a totally informed opinion on that.

Working class image, Orlando does that then make Kevin Foley, Mike Rann etc feral/gansta/white trash.

The Labor party upholds its working mans image, or do you simply equate working man to mean, poor, uneducated, convicted felon, wife basher, etc.

Ok, I'm back to work before i have the sudden urge to go and vandalised Isaac's Ferrari, its only just up the road from me and sunny Norwood, then again I might be too feral to work in such a upmarket suburb :)

Give it a rest Lyn. Maybe its time to get back to work? The amount of time you have spent blowing smoke and defending the working class image of your club is quite humorous.

If you really weren't concerned with the 'goings on' at your club, you sure are confusing the heck out of me? Very very defensive reaction to a post that was not even directed at your club.

Maybe 20 years ago we could say that results and numbers were cyclical and due to population densities etc. BUT welcome to the new millennium! A sustainable model of success has been used by a handful of clubs where they constantly are amongst the top 4 clubs year in year out! I wonder why? No, not because they are in a 'rich' area or are in an upward cycle. It's really not that hard.

You mention that your club has allocated the maximum allowable player payments to their senior programs, the same as every other club. Well, what about sacrificing player payments (lets be honest, juniors coming through would love to be given the chance to play ABA and most would play for free anyway) for a few years until a sustainable model for attracting kids and developing kids is in place. Then, once you have this, team numbers grow, revenue from junior player payments rise and well you can fill in the blanks i'm sure.

It confuses me why we pay 20 people (assuming all Men's and Women's players get paid) all this money when we could pump this money into attracting a lot more juniors and create a positive coaching environment for them.

O

VERY FEW SENIOR PLAYERS GET CASH PAYMENTS TO PLAY. MAYBE 20% BUT EVEN THAT IS HIGH.
MOST OF THE MONEY GOES TO GETTING A GOOD COACH AND TRAINING FACILITIES.
A HELL OF A LOT OF SENIOR PLAYERS CONTRIBUTE BY COACHING A JUNIOR TEAM.
CERTAINLY AT STURT FORRESTVILLE AND NORWOOD THEY DO!!
I BET THAEY DO AT WOODVILLE TOO.

Lyn

In know that Sturt are NOT utilising the full ABA player budget this year. They will be below the salary cap.

Plus they have to pay rent for ALL of their trainings.

Plus they have the smallest catchment area.

Lyn,

It is a vicious cycle.
- Don't have enough players.

- Therefore cannot afford a full time JDO

- Therefore do not attract enough players to afford a Fulltime JDO.

Right now your club, (as others who do not have full time JDO's) spends it's entire senior allowance. What is wrong with somebody suggesting that the idea that your club (again along with others) demands a div 1 spot in junior grades but is not willing to sacrifice a couple of lean senior years to employ somebody full time to recruit players.

8 years ago Sturt had 32 teams. About the same you have. They have since employed somebody to recruit juniors. They now have 50+ teams.

Please Lock me Isaac...stop the carnage

I'll quit, Orlando

but look at Woodville women's team, lots of juniors playing there

majority of our senior men are young, apart from Paul Rees

why can't we defend what you attack, a lot of what you have written in respect to Woodville has been false. but you will fall back on the working man image club.

Come talk to me Orland I have an Honours degree in Urban History I know all about democraphics.

Like Tracey at Southern!

Solong as the JDO is a coach first player second, easy way to squander money.
Does a JDO get 40K?
They would need to to justify a fulltime job!

isnt KB the ABA coach as well as JDO or similar role at woodville.. Does anyone know how to say "school clinics".. championship winning 36er, ex-NBA player attracting people to play basketball, hmm an interesting prospect.. But then what would i know..

My family had strong ties with the Woodville club, harking back to the C.B.C days. One of our flock is a life member. Another played and managed at a high level, my kids even played with eagerness with the club. We now have no involvment with the woodys as all.

Why?

Becuase we dared to speak out about the sub standard junior progranm that was in place back then. Once we questioned policy at the club our days there where limited.

We thought it may have been more of a personal assult from the matriarch of the club back then, but alas nothing has changed.

Lynn you are a brave and committed person that bleeds for your club; on saying that you have to get over the them against us mentality that the Woodville group have.

I still love the club and watched and loved the men winning the title, especially the first one a few years back, however you must face facts. You have lost a lot of talented juniours over the years because you have neglected them.

Get the junior program right & the rest will fix it 's self.

The Power House was built from the "ground up" not the other way around.

love the woodville bash

I was talking to an ex sth aussie at the Nowood carnival on the weekend.
They said one of the things they miss most is the 'club feeling' that doesnt exist in the Victorian comps.
It's obvious from these posts that its still alive in Adelaide!!

They said grading season goes for so long that, and they get pushed from pillar to post, and don't really train as a 'club'

The only club they have is their own team.

Do you think we take for granted some of the great parts of SA basketball?

love my club which is woodville
i am involved and proud to be a warrior
my sons play and get their fair share of loses and well earnt wins
they only want to play for green and gold
just like their mates who only want to be bearcats or eagles
its great
love to be the top team and be on easy street but that aint the case
what are you knockers avocating
just have 2 or 3 mega teams and byes every other week enjoy the sport support your club and dont knock mine
unless you want to something constructive

Actually I don't bleed green and gold

I just don't like injustices whether it be aimed at Woodville, Southern, Centrals, Sturt or Forestville.

Whether it be aimed at refs, or players or floor wipers.

I actually have a great passion for the game of basketball and just wished everyone would get on with cleaning up their own backyards before the attempt to clean up others.

anon (#78790)

Your telling me that KB going to conduct a kids school clinic will not get as many kids to sign on the dotted line as dean kinsman? Dean is a great coach - look at where he is.. but i find it hard to believe that because KB has such a wider appeal than Dean that he couldnt get more people to play for woodville.. im not saying KB is a better coach, im saying that for pure numbers, not talented players, but the more players you have = more money - as a JDO - that should be one of your main priorities..

AFL terms - who is going to get more players to sign up to play footy?

Matt Primus or Alistair CLarkson?

#78826 My whole family was involved with giving our free time to the club in some way.

We are not experts in juniour programs, but that does not mean you dont know when something is not quite right. You dont need to be a mechanic to know that your car has a major problem!

I give my free time to our club every couple of weeks. The difference between our current and former club is that you can question things and get a reasonable answer. You may not always like the answer you get but you have to accept it. Our former club took us to task for daring to ask if there was a better way to go about their juniour program. My kids then suffered because of this.

Have a go at me for daring to question a clubs juniour program, but dont dare take it out on my kids.

#78826, are you having a go at Greener Pastures becuase they dared to question somthing that may or may not have been wrong?

If Greener pastures has a Life Member, Past Player & manager at a high level plus kids playing for the club, sounds like they are or where doing quite a bit for their club already.

Seems to me that questioning juniour policy down Findon way is a sure fire way of copping one in the neck.