Anonymous
Years ago

Age groups, we need to learn!

Am I wrong in saying that we need to look at our age groups when it comes to playing against interstate clubs ? Do they have an older group in the same age bracket ?

Tactics... Why are younger interstate teams allowed to zone up ? Should our coaches be allowed to teach zoning at a younger age ?

Come on BASA it's time to get with the times!!

Topic #7017 | Report this topic


Awesome Man!  
Years ago

Oh its so easy to be naive and uninformed and complain isn't it?

For one we have the same age groups as every other representative competition in Australia. The Vic's that came over for Easter may look bigger, stronger and better then your son/daughter but that doesn't mean they're older. It just means that they're bigger, stronger and better.

Why you may ask ... Knox the 'biggest' association in Melbourne had an average of 911 teams in 2005. BASA in TOTAL has less then half that. 911 for ONE Association/Club (granted they're the biggest but you get the point).

The issue of zones is interesting. It is believed that to benifit the 'development' of junior basketballers in S.A. that zones are banned for Under 14's and below. Victoria is one of very few (maybe the only one) that still allows zones in these age groups. They also allow 10 year olds to chuck up 3 points and get 3 points for them in Under 12's.

Yes our juniors may struggle against a zone at this level for many reasons, but IMO they are better long term for it.

Anyway its been discussed on here in length already.

Next time before having a go at big bad BASA get some facts from someone who knows what they're talking about!

Reply #78732 | Report this post


TC  
Years ago

Someone give that last post an icon... its one of the better posts i'v seen on here period.

Reply #78733 | Report this post


Matt Ryan  
Years ago

Awesome man! I love you!

Ridden any buses lately!

I'm special too!

Reply #78739 | Report this post


Daniel  
Years ago

I've heard that the top level men's leagues in QLD have a different age grouping. Where we have under 20's, then open men/ABA, I've heard QLD go up to under 23's before going to open men/ABA. Would it be worth considering that here, as it would give younger players a bit more time to adjust to playing against bigger bodies ? There would still be the opportunity to play at Open level if the player was capable, but having that extra age group would just give a club more flexibility in directing a player's development.

Reply #78742 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Awesome Man, no need to get so defensive. I am not uninformed infact.....and have been told that Victorian teams allow a slighty older kid, by months, in a certain age group.( which means alot in young kids growth ) And by teaching younger kids zone defense, and zoning.....they are miles ahead. And will continue to thrash the arse off of us. Laughing, yes they are.

Until BASA get with the times, we will be the Basketball mini state...easy beats for juniours. Grow up and realise that our under 12's are just as competitive as our under 20's. And they love and enjoy it too.

Lets wrap them up in cotton wool, and teach them tiddly winks !!

Reply #78793 | Report this post


Awesome Man!  
Years ago

Where to start!?

"Victorian teams allow a slighty older kid, by months, in a certain age group" ... clearly uniformed you are.

From the Basketball Victoria VJBL Rules of Operation ...

4.3 Ineligible players:
An ineligible player is one who:
o has not been cleared from another association or been granted permission to
play.
o has not been transferred between teams in an association according to the rules
and procedures of the VMJBL (see Restricted Player Rule 4.4.2) and the other
competitions.
o is suspended.
o is over age - for the competition, a player must be under the given age on the
31st of December of the year of the competition.


NOW you are not uniformed in fact!

Zones

How does teaching a 10 year old to stand still in the key way and cover a little space make that player 'miles ahead' of us poor South Aussies?

We struggle (as all teams of that age would) against zones because:
a) we don't play against it in regular competition;
b) to beat a zone you need movement off the ball, dribble penetration and wait for it outside shooting ability.

Hence in S.A. we don't allow teams of this age group to play zones because:
a) We think teaching a player defensive skills is better then teaching juniors to become trees!
b) Younger age groups rarely play structured offences with off the ball movement, dribble penetration and coaches definately DON'T encourage outside shooting!

Furthermore I suggest you take a good look at the results of the weekend and for example Sturt's Under 14 groups from last year and this year and tell me we're miles behind the victorians.

As for the rest of your post, 'cotton wool and tiddly winks' why don't you take your buzz words and use them in a place they're appropriate, because this topic definately isn't one of them.

Watch out before Awesome Man hauls you off in his Awesome Van!

Reply #78797 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"I am not uninformed infact.....and have been told that Victorian teams allow a slighty older kid, by months, in a certain age group.( which means alot in young kids growth )"

You were told wrong, therefore you were uninformed.

"And by teaching younger kids zone defense, and zoning.....they are miles ahead."

Zones are pathetic and should be banned at all ages. They slow a game up. Yes they can be effective but they were made to stop inside shots and force the outside shots. How many juniors in U14 and below have a consistant 3pt shot? Once you get to the older levels players start to get a better range on their shots, therefore get a good shooting team against a zone and it's broken. Also if we were allowed to teach a zone from a young age, some coaches would only teach a zone therefore when kids get older all they'd know is a zone and their ability to put pressure on the ball full court is at a low level.

Reply #78798 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon above.
Vic domestic teams have been known to "wiggle" the age groups a little - where participation is a greater goal, but the "REP" teams (elite level) are not allowed to under BV guidelines - the teams we play at Classics etc. are comprised of boys/girls the same age as ours.

As for zoning being a plus for younger players, it's a bit of "each to their own" - but I know the "younger" boys age groups - U12s and U14s - at Easter were won by SA teams - Sturt in 12s and Sturt, Eastern Mavs and Norwood all making the semis in 14s. All of these teams played man, and the Sturt 12s destroyed the two teams that zoned them.
Even if this were not so, they would be miles ahead....in U12s. By U16s, when players have the strength to shoot accurately at range, you will find that maybe these teams struggle, as they do not have the man-to-man defensive principles to fall back.
But like I said, it's "each to their own". But our younger players certainly are not "easy-beats" at the moment.

Reply #78799 | Report this post


Hoop Addict  
Years ago

Anonymous,

I don't think you're completely informed on the Victorian age groups. You will find that any club/rep team follows the same guidelines as South Australia. I do know that some country associations run slightly different age grouping. However, any team playing in the VJBL abides by the same by-laws as in SA (even if they're a country region team).

I think in U12s teaching man to man defensive principals is particularly important, and as such I am very much against coaches who play zones consistently to the detriment of the development of their players. I believe there's a time & place for zone defences in basketball, and that is not U12s. Being exposed to zones is probably not a horribly bad thing at that age, but I don't think it's beneficial for kids to play zone for long periods at that age. Having a "no zone" policy (as is currently in place in SA) eliminates the possibility of coaches neglecting to teach basic man to man defensive principals in the younger age groups.

I don't think the Vics are "laughing" as they "thrash the arse off of us" because they're allowed to play a zone. In fact, there's a "no zone" policy at U14 nationals. The SA results at U12 & U14 Classics & Nationals in 2005 don't seem to indicate that SA are "miles behind" the Vics.

Reply #78800 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think someone had a bad weekend and is looking for someone else to blame.

Let's Blame the Vics for playing people older then my son/daughter. And bloody BASA for not making sure my son/daughter won!!

Reply #78802 | Report this post


Vadersmate  
Years ago

There is no question that the Vic & NSW kids where a lot bigger (in most cases) than our kids especially in the under 14 comp; however as Awesome Man! pointed out, a lot of that has to do with the pool of kids each Vic & NSW team has to choose from.

Increase our population by 3 times and you will find that you have a lot more bigger kids to choose from.

Bigger aint always better. The under 14 girls from Gossford (I think thats NSW, stand corrected though)had a monster of a Polonesian girl playing centre for them.In my time chained inside one of the stadiums I saw her get beaten most of the times by smaller girls. She was prob close to 6ft and at least 70 kgs, playing against girls that came up to her ears that where at most 50-55kgs. This girl had no major impact in any of the 3 games I saw her in.

Another girl from the ACT in the same age group was a genuine 6 footer, but once again was well beaten by an Eagles girl that came up to her shoulders.

Its not how big you are (although it does come in handy) its what you do with your abilities.

Zones, leave em to the seniors.

Reply #78815 | Report this post


Adam Hewson  
Years ago

"Am I wrong in saying that we need to look at our age groups when it comes to playing against interstate clubs ? Do they have an older group in the same age bracket ?

Tactics... Why are younger interstate teams allowed to zone up ? Should our coaches be allowed to teach zoning at a younger age ?

Come on BASA it's time to get with the times!!"


CHEER UP EMO!

Reply #78824 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yea awesome man...you tha man !!

All out attack. What ever happened to defence. ?? The hidden secret of any successful game.

The best AFL Grand Finals have been won on negative tactics. Go and look at the history books. If we are serious in teaching our kids how to play good basketball, we need to defend our basket.

If not, why the hell let our kids play in the first place, where are they going ?? To a thrashing year in year out. Ecxuses of height and whatever dont wash anymore.

Reply #78833 | Report this post


Michelle  
Years ago

Primary School SAPSASA basketball Carnivals (held just b4 Easter)have a policy of No zone - all man on man play. The ages vary greatly because the 2 competitions are for Year5/6 and year 6/7 and this can vary from school to school.

Just a thought I'm adding really a comment on any of the above.

Reply #78889 | Report this post


Michelle  
Years ago

Damm! that last bit was meant to say
"Just a thought I'm adding NOT really a comment on any of the above"

Reply #78891 | Report this post




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