Years ago

Joe Ingles V 36ers

Watching the game tonight

How the hell did the 36ers let this kid go

NO player on the 36ers roster could contain him

the only person who stopped Ingles from scoring was himself...lol

He is gonna be a awesome player

I would say even better than Newley

Topic #9118 | Report this topic

Years ago

Did we have an option to sign him? If we did, whoever is in charge should be shot.

Reply #103079 | Report this post

Years ago

We are know the stories behind this. Each side has it's own version.....

Yes, mistakes (huge mistakes) were made by someone, but whats been done has been done and we can only hope that he decides to come home one day...

Reply #103085 | Report this post

Years ago

Now cmon people, signing Mark Nash was a much better idea.

Reply #103086 | Report this post

Years ago

Are you serious Anon......Ingles would give u guys a shitload more than Mark Nash

Nash, is a good defender...but thats about it

Ingles shits all over him

Reply #103090 | Report this post

Years ago

I think you will find he was being sarcastic.....i sure hope so anyway :)

Reply #103093 | Report this post

Years ago

Mistake with Newley, now with Ingles...how many times can we say "oh well"???

Reply #103097 | Report this post

Years ago

Haha had to laugh at Cooper being the only player to draw a charge/stop Ingles!

Reply #103099 | Report this post

Years ago

not to forget letting Jacob Holmes go...lol

He had a great game tonight

His hustle was excellent

Reply #103101 | Report this post

Years ago

I think the Holmes situation was different

Reply #103102 | Report this post

Years ago

why....surely he was a player Smyth shouldve looked ar retaining

Reply #103105 | Report this post

Years ago

I don't think he would of stayed regardless if we wanted him too

Reply #103106 | Report this post

Years ago

lol....money hungry bastard.....deserves his losing record then

Reply #103107 | Report this post

Years ago

damn! A jam fest by Ingles. That kid is unstoppable!

Reply #103108 | Report this post

Years ago

Boyz,all calm down, he agreed to play and changed his mind , trust me , the 36ers tried everything to get him , he changed his mind!!!

Reply #103115 | Report this post

Years ago

Oooooh, Cooper & Nash any day over Ingles {add heavy sarcasim}

Reply #103121 | Report this post

Years ago

ingles shooting tonight was average, he didnt look a threat from the three point line but his penetration was amazing to watch.

Reply #103124 | Report this post

The Journo  
Years ago

Any 36er fan could fit Joe Ingles into the roster.

Id personally replace Ng for Ingles in a flash.

Some may say oh another off guard, but hey what an off guard? And 19 too!

And I hear Adelaide are thinking of life after Maher? Come On people!

Same goes for Holmess, Newley and Forman.

Ken Cole is right, we need home town heroes!

Reply #103128 | Report this post

Years ago

i think Ingles made the right decision going to the dragons. with the 36ers he never would have had the opportunities hes already been given at the dragons. at adelaide he would have lined up behind, ng, sutton and probably hill as well

will probably end up home soon enough but

Reply #103131 | Report this post

Years ago

Ingles would fit in the sixers team - cant shoot foul shots for shit and likes to shoot even if someone else is in a better position.

He is a good player and may actually get better if well coached (not sure why he is playing for Dragons), but as they say there is no I in team.

Reply #103132 | Report this post

Years ago

no Only HEAL

Reply #103133 | Report this post

Johnny Sack  
Years ago

I think the Mark Price factor may have played into getting Joe onto the Dragons - the guy would be quite well connected to the guys that pull the strings in a number of NBA clubs and make drafting and personnel decsions - well so much for that now!!!

Reply #103138 | Report this post

Years ago

Why would he want to play 4 Adelaide? There are teams out there with futures.
Tonite you saw an ordinary team beat an even more ordinary team except the losers have a more to look forward to. Turn overs by Adelaide and a tired coach make for a lousy season.

Reply #103139 | Report this post

Years ago

get off it, sure the season is not going great and the coach may be past his prime but its our first REAL bad season in a fair while. Just ride it out.

Reply #103145 | Report this post

Years ago

Ingles didn't want to play for the sixers, he wanted to be a part of somthing new and special, hence he signed with the new team, south

Reply #103147 | Report this post

Years ago

Ingles looked extremely scrappy tonight. He ony got major minutes on court because there aren't many more options on the Dragon's roster. Who could you say was a stand out tonight on the Dragon's team? I failed to find one.

Reply #103151 | Report this post

Years ago

THey desperately needed a go to inside scorer... Fuller anyone?
And their bench is just paper thin.

Reply #103152 | Report this post

Years ago

Ingles schmingles.
Should go back to Happy Valley.

Reply #103155 | Report this post

Years ago

Ingles schmingles, eh?
And is there a problem with Happy Valley?
Shame on you 'kdog' for making a remark like this. Maybe you should retreat back to the DoggPound, yo.

Jingles is one of Australia's finest young talents to come out of the Valley, along with former greats like Ben Hodges and Matthew Barrett...

Have a few more beers and bring your nappyhead mates down this way for a slagg_off face to face before you pass judgment on Onkaparinga's tidy town of 2001.

Reply #103160 | Report this post

Years ago

Paulo, that is blatantly incorrect.

The 36ers barely offered him the minimum rookie contract, and offered him a spot in the 13. If you call that "the 36ers tried everything to get him", I hope like hell you are not involved in any future negotiating.

Misunderstandings, typos and verbals aside, that minimum contract and the spot in the 13 is all that the coaches thought he was worth.

EC, the guy is barely 19 years old and averaging 18.2 PPG for the best mark in his team. In his first year, I think a scrappy game that included four steals is pretty decent. Were he picking those steals and throwing down those dunks for the 36ers, people would be inspired. Don't let your bias throw you.

Reply #103163 | Report this post

Years ago

S0 he missed some foul shots and a few others that he would normally swallow - big deal - he could easi8ly have had a lazy 30. Dont let some missed shots cloud your judgment on his overall game.

I have never seen someone so young get to the basket whenever they want so easily.

Defensively he is also a nuisance with his long arms (very Scott Pippenish).

Reply #103171 | Report this post

brick city  
Years ago

His first 2 points where he blew by Ng and dunked in traffic was amazing. First time someone has dunked in traffic in a half court set in a long time in the NBL.

Reply #103179 | Report this post

Years ago

I found myself almost cheering for Joe when he was getting those dunks. It was exciting to see what he is capable of.
I felt bad for Ng, but it just highlighted how ineffective Darren in on the defensive end.Ingles did miss some foul shots, but the slashing and his handle on the ball was impressive.

Sutton continues to impress me. The guy has so much poise, and whips his passes around with purpose. The 3 pointer in Heals face was great.

How average has Drmic become ? Lazy and barely a threat i thought.

Reply #103187 | Report this post

Doctor E  
Years ago

Maybe I'm getting carried away but from what I've seen so far he is the best Australian rookie talent in the NBL since Andrew Gaze. Not that I remember Gaze's rookie year, though.

I'd even take Ingles over Newley. I can see why some would say he has NBA talent. Unlike most Australians in the NBL he isn't afraid to attack the basket instead of settling for the three every time. That's what I like about him.

Reply #103191 | Report this post

Years ago

He certainly has a no fear attitude - it didnt matter who was in front of him he would back himself to get past them and to the hoop. As he gets more games under his belt I see his shot selection and passing improving - all things that can be worked on - hopefully by the assistant coaches at the Dragons and not the headcoach!

Reply #103194 | Report this post

Years ago

the 36ers said to Joe Ingles "we can;t wait to sign you Joe....we need another centre"
Would you stay around if you were Joe Ingles and somebody said thst to you. He was offered well below the rookie minimum and wasn;t even guaranteed a roster spot...being told he would have to compete for a spot at training every week.
For all you people saying that he can;t shoot or missed too many free throws....he had an off shooting night....and still had 20. Ask the NZ Breakers if he can shoot. They'll tell you in no uncertain terms. He is the next big thing from Australia and will far surpass Brad Newley...who will never get a real shot at the NBA.

Reply #103206 | Report this post

Years ago

And also a factor is that neither of them have done time at college like Worthington and co.

Both great young players and it's painful they aren't here.

Reply #103209 | Report this post

Years ago

Joe certainly has some talent. Maybe has been able to show more talent to date than if he was on any other roster (that actually had other players in the team worth going to).

Biggest shame is that he is now being coached by Heal. Not sure exactly what he can learn from Heal other than how to jack up every ball from the car park. I really hope it doesn't stop his development. Because at his age he could become the next Andrew Gaze to Australian basketball.

Reply #103244 | Report this post

Years ago

I wish sixers had him,sixers have never really had a force SF. I reckon he is NBA talent. GO JO

Reply #103249 | Report this post

Years ago

For Ingles to have a real shot in the NBA, he needs to beef up, against a bigger guy Ingles could get posted up with relative ease at his current figure.

Maybe Cowan could build him a gym in his backyard? Hell Jacob shoots enough bricks I'm sure they could build one.

Reply #103256 | Report this post

Years ago

if someone last night had some smarts to not get their ankles broken on the Jingles jab fake, he would never have got to the basket so easy. It's a good move, but people will learn to stop it.. by then though I think he will be good enough to have added a few more to his repotoire

Reply #103264 | Report this post

Years ago


By any chance do u play Call Of Duty 2 online??...lol

Reply #103301 | Report this post

Years ago

To be a real force in the NBA as a 6'7" - 6'8" SG/SF, Ingles would need to bulk up to at least 210-220lb (About 95-100kg). Otherwise, he'll be overpowered by others at these positions.

Reply #103308 | Report this post

Years ago

Perhaps we can get Ingles when Maher retires and the salary cap returns to normal

Reply #103321 | Report this post

Years ago

Isaac, give me a call and we can discuss , but I think I am correct and happy to stand corrected

Reply #103345 | Report this post

Years ago

Paulo, why do you think you are correct? I'm not saying I know anything beyond what I've heard second/third/fourth hand, but why is is that you have better mail than Isaac or anyone else? Not having a go, just interested.

Reply #103371 | Report this post

Years ago

Not sure what more I could say over the phone that I haven't already posted here in the past. Feel free to email me if you'd like to trade versions!

The facts as I understand them are roughly:

There was at some stage, what was believed by the club, to be a verbal agreement that Joe would play for the 36ers. But never a signature. Best case from the club's perspective is that they almost had him on a cheap-arse deal (bargain) but when he saw that other clubs were interested, went back on his word. That's the best case for the club and it still implies that they didn't recognise the full extent of his talent.

The coaches never offered the player a spot in the ten man roster. The best that was offered was a spot in the 13. When players consider offers, especially younger players, where they fit into the rotation is an absolutely crucial component. You've implied that they made a solid pitch for Ingles and even with this point alone, I think that implication is incorrect.

Five years ago, I can remember pages of notes looking at the probable 36ers rosters and looking at Oscar's competition at PF to see what opportunities he might get. And that was in the ten. And he still ummed and aahed between a college offer and a four-year deal from the 36ers!

The club and head coach claimed (see past thread re Q&A with Daws and Smyth) to have offered Ingles a maximum rookie contract (two years, $40,000 per year). They offered him half of the maximum at best (I'm guessing $40,000 for two years, so $20,000 per year) - either they honestly didn't know what the maximum was (embarrassing) or lied at that point. Either is pretty bad, so take your pick. I don't know which I'd rather it was, to be honest!

I don't know for sure, but I think that the offer might have even been less than the minimum player contract for players on a ten-man roster because the offer was to be in the 13 which doesn't need to be $22-25,000 or whatever the minimum is exactly these days.

At some point, (see anonymous post above), a representative of the club (can't remember who and won't name them here if I do remember) implied that he was a centre - that does not instill confidence in the player and those advising him (family, agent, etc) at all. I think I remember who might have said this, but they're good to deal with, so I'll let them go on this one.

When they finally came up with a paper contract, his name was spelt incorrectly.

Is there anything here that you would dispute? I've talked with the CEO at the time and he certainly put forward the club's case, but didn't dispute the contract typo (even raised it himself, from memory), the roster-spot offer or that the offer wasn't the maximum. Those are three key things, IMO.

An excellent offer to a rookie is the maximum contract, the assertion that they'll play in an eight-man rotation, vehicle, educational support, constant personal contact leading up to the offer, showing a direct interest, etc. Something like this happened with both Holmes and Forman. The majority of people in the know have consistently claimed that Ingles is a superior prospect to both.

A standard offer to a rookie with potential is a normal-to-max offer, spot in the ten, and a bit of interest.

You save the minimum contract for a Hambour or Gower-type player - useful, but not coming from the AIS and not a strong bet to eke out a 10 year NBL career. You save the sub-par offers for development players who might make it (Sutton) or are training bait for the time being (Burdon). You certainly don't risk making that type of offer to a guy touted as "NBA-potential" by the AIS and talked up by everyone everywhere.

Like I said, best case scenario from the club's perspective is that they made a sub-par pitch to Ingles and had him on a verbal agreement. He went back on that, going by their version of events, and I, for one, don't blame him at all.

If you want a player, you pursue them and you contract them before the marketplace catches wind. If the club had got a signature in the first place, Ingles would probably be playing for the 36ers. If they had negotiated with Holmes and Forman during the season or as soon as it was finished, neither would have started getting interest from other clubs. (I don't think they could've retained Dusty without losing at least one of Holmes or Forman, but with Horvath I don't know that many people are too bothered by that now.)

Reply #103374 | Report this post

Years ago

Thanks for that Isaac - puts about 400 posts on the subject into a clear and concise few paragraphs.

As for him being a centre.....maybe thats why Heal got rid of Fuller! ;)

Reply #103378 | Report this post

Years ago

thedoctor, I don't really want to give away their identity, but Paulo would've been close to the action (may or may not have had direct involvement, but would definitely have been aware of details). Just might be looking too much at the verbal agreement and not enough at the fact that the offer was just flat-out poor.

Worth remembering that my contention in this thread is that this statement from Paulo is not reasonable: "the 36ers tried everything to get him".

To me, "everything" is a very positive, on-going and personal pitch (club rep and coach following player progress leading up to an offer, getting in touch regularly to maintain a good relationship while they're at college or AIS or playing locally, club rep and coach talking to the player's family in person), and then making a very good offer.

Statman, you could be right!

Reply #103379 | Report this post

Years ago

sign up sutton long term!!! He'll be there

Reply #103881 | Report this post


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