Surely it would be a health and safety thing that would require you to have ice etc at a game?

regardless Kent it means all basketball now played at the Dome other than WNBL/NBL will not have a canteen.

soon i doubt they will play basketball other then WNBL/NBL at the dome. Anyway isn't Woodville looking to make a more elsewhere?

yup they are

If Groves and Hemmerling are going to continue treating junior basketball worse than the previous BASA management I suggest we all vote by not turning up to NBL games.

They are pushing Junior basketball and Woodville in particular out of the dome.

The 36ers have continually taken money from junior basketball without their players or coaches ever doing anything for basketball in this State.

The 36ers have continually banned players being paid by their district clubs from playing in the finals.

And now they want strip junior basketball of more money by upping the court hire of the Dome and making junior basketball pay for being in the office space.

I say we get out now.

Move Woodville to St. Clair

Move District basketball organising to another venue.

And protest by not turning up to watch the 36ers.

do southern pay rent for their canteen?
do forestville pay rent for their canteen?

it isn't about rent. It is about the closure of the canteen.

Nothing about paying extra rent and the ability to stay open it is about being told to close.

closure of the woodville canteen and spotless not opening their canteens on week nights means no canteen for any of the competitions.

no ice, no ability for anyone coming from work and watching able to grab a pie or coke.

think people are seeing the oh woodville are sooking issue and not seeing the bigger issue.

Will the bar still be open tonight?

Yup

Isaac,

I think that you will find it is more of the method of operation and attitude that has woodville feeling agrieved by the DHD management.

If the 36ers and/or the Dome are interested in fostering a relationship with basketball in SA then they need to understand that the only reason the 36ers were able to get crowds of up to 7000 in the past was because junior district basketball was organised around the NBL calander.

Why should district basketball ever again move it's games from a Friday night if it clashes with the 36ers. I am sure that a lot more families would consider having their Saturday nights free as being more important than getting outn to a 36ers game on a Fridy night!

Why should people who have had their sport bankrupted becasue of the money that Phil, other coaches, and the NBL players, have taken which have turned BASA into it's current position?

Kent,

It is the 36ers that ran basketball in this state bankrupt, not clubs like woodville.

Isaac, yes the response is Athol Park when other people complain about the "free ride" Woodville get.

If Woodville had their way, they never would have moved from Athol Park. But they were forced to, so that the inept previous management could make their precious Dome look good and useful at all times.

Woodville, it would appear to me, have probably become reliant on this scenario, and never really envisioned the deal ending. A little bit of bad planning on their part.

For Victa to use the topic heading he did smacks of sensationalism at best, Hemmerling would have had no part in it.

As for the situation that could eventuate now, Woodville could be asked to rent the stadium, but have no income stream from doing so.

This is a club that struggles as it is, to attract the "better range" ABL players, to keep juniors interested, to attract the higher skilled coaches.

Should negotiations end Woodville's situation of no rent, and then also withdraw their income stream, it would smack of removing the level playing field.

How could Woodville compete with the Forestville's etc (and not blaming Forestville, they have a great set up!), who get their bar and canteen incomes?

I appreciate that negotiations are ongoing, are far from a done deal, but what benefit would occur from almost surely sending a club to the financial wall??

PS : I do not play, coach or have any family that plays or coaches at Woodville, just an interested bystander.

Kent,

Actually, it is the staff that was involved with running the 36ers that sent BASA through the hoop.

District junior basketball had 1 staff member, (the well over worked and underpaid Colin Thompson) that dealt with district seniors and juniors. ($500k+ profit) Pasadena as a stadium by itself was able to generate enough income ($200K) to pay the stadium managers. And the Development Manager and his staff are paid by a government grant.

So district basketball and social basketball generates a profit of over $500K. Now remember that the dome repayments were cancel over the period since 2000. And yet BASA needed to ask for a $2.8M loan. Where exactly did this $2.8M come from? What level of basketball costs that much?

Isaac,

I think you will find that people here 'consider' the Groves-Hemmerling situation to be closer than being portrayed.

At the end of the day the relevant parties will work together to come to a fair arrangement in a business relationship.

Gone are the days where clubs got looked after, was no different from most other clubs. All those private arrangements are now over.

Woodville's so called home venue is now privately run. The fact that Woodville are there now and have been able to stay in place while the changeover was happening shows plenty of goodwill on the part of the new owners.

To expect management of a venue the size of the Dome to give anyone something for nothing while covering the expenses of power, water, gas etc is just not realistic.

From what I can tell the new management has given up a lot to current hirers including Woodville. If Eddy or Dome management read a thread such as this maybe they might think twice about the allowences they've given up in the future as their goodwill clearly isn't appreciated.

At the end of the day I would think Woodville staying or going elsewhere would have little impact on the bottom line of the Dome's figures. The fact they're still there and so to is Basketball SA (juniors & social) as well as groups like the Salvos suggests to me that management of a multimillion dollar, multi purpose venue are giving something back to grass roots basketball.

Just my two cents worth ...

Anon

I dont think you will find anyone involved with Woodville are in the slightest unappreciative of the deals that have allowed Woodville to be at the Dome, past, or present arrangements.

Isaac, I never intended to drag Groves into the current situation, and agree he shouldn't be.

I just got slightly irritated when you made the flippant Athol Park comment. Like it or not, when discussing the situation Woodville is in, Athol Park HAS to come in to the equation. IF it wasn't for the mis managers of BASA at the time, Woodville would probably still be there, and running quite well.

I fully understand Groves has to run the Dome as a business, and do not blame him for doing so (you dont make money by giving it away!)

However, I am concerned that a worst case scenario could eventuate which will see Woodville literally homeless and fold.

I don't think St Clair would really solve the situation, as last time I was there, there was no bar, and the canteen money would surely go to the owners (council???). I don't know what situation Norwood has with MARS, or Centrals with Starplex, and how they get an income stream, but something maybe Woodville needs to start looking at.

Sturt are homeless I don't see them reminding us of that fact every chance they get.

Apart from a last minute rescue for ABA games Norwood are still homeless and have been for a long time. I don't see them coming on here complaining. South get the luxury of hiring a tin shed which has two courts and at the same rate as Forestville hire Wayville for; again no complaints.

There are plenty of reasons why people bite back at the mere mention of Athol Park. Some (and it's not the majority) need to understand that Athol Park was not Woodville's. To continually bring it up in every arguement is just pointless.

I know you have no beef with Woodville Isaac, as you know I have no beef with any club at all.

To the anon who mentioned SWturt being homeless...technically they are, for an unknown duration (what IS happening with Pasadena??) but at the end of the day, they will get their stadium back.

Norwood too could haqve very well been facing the same situation given they were having to use the Dome as a base for a season, luckily for them the MARS thing got sorted.

I do not want to approportion blame to anyone here. BSA should ensure that Woodville are not severely disadvantaged by what has happened, but likewise Woodville need to be proactive and look at options (as I beleive they are doing) and seeing what options are available to them.

Let's hope all interested parties can gain something out of the negotiations.

Not saying they are going to be, just saying BSA should have to have some sort of responsibility to ensure they aren't.

Can some-one please explain to me how there is any type of level playing field when Forestville are paying the same rent as Marion. I am not privy to all the financial gymnastics but how can a team like South or perhaps North or West compete with the likes of Forestville and Sturt with their facilities. More courts, more games, more people coming into those stadiums spending money at the bar or canteen. And, given first impressions of a stadium and its facilities where would someone choose to go - Marion/Hillcrest or Wayville/Pasadena. I know this is simplistic but can some-one explain what I am missing from the equation.

But who is subsidising the cheaper rent of a place like wayville v marion - certainly not borne by forestville!

Dr Damage,
how do u explain your clubs current failings in juniors but also seniors after the success (which you were a part of) of the past?

things seem to be slipping further and further backwards under the weight of the masses and other issues (no gym, lack of experienced/skilled coaches etc.).

How about Southerns deal when they did not have to pay for Sunday trainings for nearly 20 years.Free court hire, How about that for a sweetner. .

Given things are in transition at the moment I trust one of the areas being considered is the have's and have nots: the arrangement for stadia and court hire, the ability to generate revenue from bar/canteen which is heavily influenced by the venue and the number of games scheduled at the venue based on the number of courts. It is time to even things up a bit that gives every club a starting point to develop and grow. How do clubs with poorer stadium facilities generate extra revenue to facilitate the development of youngsters. I concur that the clubs which are set up in "better" facilties havea head start in attracting the undecided player. I know there are other influences which determine where a person might go but if a club is doing everything as well as another club nine times out of ten that better player will go where facilties are better.

This is what I will never understand about SA basketball.

During a period where Sturt have no stadium to play out of. Have no canteen and bar revenue. Have only a small, startup domestic competition. And, play in a competition which is very lop sided. They still managed to win 2 Gold Medals at the Classics.

Now remember that Dandenong have a 10 court stadium with the revernue for the Bar, Canteen and competitions. They have a domestic comp that is the size of the BASA district competiton.

So how in the hell does this happen???

Best practise methods!

Clubs need to look hard at their methods of operations. They need to embrase domestic competitions and increase their size. They need to accept that the world of handouts is gone and survival starts not from BSA looking after them, but rather them looking at improving.

Woodville are in the situation they find themselves becasue they sat on their butt's and let KB and the ABA programs rob them of money. Money mind you that came from a sweet deal from BASA. (Who went broke becasue of these types of deals)

Put a plan together and get going at finding other stadiums.

If all the clubs sity back and wait for BSA to help them, they are in for a rude shock. They have gone from being the sharholders to the equivalent of the Western Magic in their position of power in the new basketball.

Perhaps it's time for an update on what changes, orchestrated by BSA, are on the table. The sale of the 6ers and Dome have been the headlines with the restructure but I can't recall seeing too much detail on what is happening at the grass roots.

Right now BSA is sorting out who are member clubs and who are not. Nothing will happen until that is sorted out at least.

Why is that taking so long???

Isaac,"What's the real sulk". The canteen will be closed and no ice.

Woodville training side by side with Magic at St. Clair? That would be an interesting sight....