VICTA
Years ago

Groves-Hemmerling Grass Roots Mow Down

The Woodville canteen at DHD is no more. Despite assurances that grass roots b-ball would looked after, the deal done with Spotless has removed Woodville's income stream.
And just to show how conceited they are, Spotless have no plans to open their canteen for the local comp.. Hence, no ICE to treat injuries & no cold drinks.
A big thankyou to BASA for their input.

Topic #9490 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

Surely it would be a health and safety thing that would require you to have ice etc at a game?

Reply #107786 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

Where Woodville paying rent for the canteen?

Reply #107791 | Report this post


Sturty6ers  
Years ago

BSA have a responsibility to provide first aid assistance if they are providing a venue to play sport in (Normally, this is a first aid kit and someone trained in its use). This is where it becomes a little grey.
First Aid assistance can be as little as someone to ring an ambulance.......

I cannot recall reading that they have to provide ice.

Reply #107792 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

regardless Kent it means all basketball now played at the Dome other than WNBL/NBL will not have a canteen.

Reply #107799 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

soon i doubt they will play basketball other then WNBL/NBL at the dome. Anyway isn't Woodville looking to make a more elsewhere?

Reply #107801 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

yup they are

Reply #107806 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Negotiations are still on and whatever happens, there is likely to still be a canteen for all local competitions.

So, there will be ice and a canteen. What's the real sulk - the Warriors losing a rent-free income stream? If so, say that to start with.

Reply #107808 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

No not regardless anon. If you run a business you should expect to be paying rent.

Woodville were getting a free run by BASA but now need to face reality.

Reply #107809 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

From memory, the response to that is "Athol Park", right?

Reply #107813 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If Groves and Hemmerling are going to continue treating junior basketball worse than the previous BASA management I suggest we all vote by not turning up to NBL games.

They are pushing Junior basketball and Woodville in particular out of the dome.

The 36ers have continually taken money from junior basketball without their players or coaches ever doing anything for basketball in this State.

The 36ers have continually banned players being paid by their district clubs from playing in the finals.

And now they want strip junior basketball of more money by upping the court hire of the Dome and making junior basketball pay for being in the office space.

I say we get out now.

Move Woodville to St. Clair

Move District basketball organising to another venue.

And protest by not turning up to watch the 36ers.

Reply #107814 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

do southern pay rent for their canteen?
do forestville pay rent for their canteen?

it isn't about rent. It is about the closure of the canteen.

Nothing about paying extra rent and the ability to stay open it is about being told to close.

closure of the woodville canteen and spotless not opening their canteens on week nights means no canteen for any of the competitions.

no ice, no ability for anyone coming from work and watching able to grab a pie or coke.

think people are seeing the oh woodville are sooking issue and not seeing the bigger issue.

Reply #107821 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Negotiations are still in progress. Why are you running with this "no ice, no pies" doom and gloom when the issue is still being negotiated! Not just that, they're still in the earlier stages of negotiations.

As I said, there will be a canteen open for local games! Did you miss that part?

Reply #107826 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Will the bar still be open tonight?

Reply #107828 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yup

Reply #107829 | Report this post


Magic  
Years ago

Gee some of you people are complete tools and whinge about anything, especially without having any factual basis to support your ridiculous claims! Woodville were getting a very good deal at the Dome due to a deal done with BASA, not Eddie or Mal. Why have a crack at them? Eddie is sure as hell not going to let people lease his stadium for free? It costs more money to open up the Dome than it does St. Clair. I'm sure he does have junior basketball at heart, but I can also guarantee he hasn't made his money off of providing "deals" for people.

Reply #107830 | Report this post


VICTA  
Years ago

Thats a pretty disappionting response Isaac. I wasn't aware of Woodville as a club "sulking" as you put it . This post was a general comment posted by myself in response to something I see as unjust, and that does nothing to help anyone except those who can most afford it .The lady in the canteen I spoke to last night was not aware of any other negotiations. This will affect all users of DHD.

Reply #107831 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I'm waiting for the "As of tomorrow, ICE MIGHT NOT EXIST ANYWHERE EVER" thread...

The canteens at other privately owned venues (MARS and Starplex) don't provide a return to their respective clubs, right?

Why are Groves and Hemmerling to blame? Why is Hemmerling's name even in this thread title?!

If a Woodville rep wants to sulk about their nomadic situation, then put the blame on those who put basketball in the situation that led to the sale of assets, not someone who stepped up to buy a tin shed.

Added: Victa, so based on a quick convo with the canteen lady, you started a thread about two men "mowing down grass roots basketball" when one of the men has no ownership of the venue itself - THAT's not a disappointing response?

Care to respond to the points that other clubs don't get a return from canteens at their respective privately owned venues?

Weren't Woodville getting a bit of a free ride recently?

Reply #107832 | Report this post


VICTA  
Years ago

Norwood and Centrals moved into their respective stadia knowing where they stood in relation to use of and costing of same. I do recall issues with the tenancy at Mars .

Reply #107841 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

Mal and Eddie have nothing to do with grass roots basketball.

The sixers are now being run as a business, The dome is now being run as a business

The "charity" mentality that lead to the financial collapse of basketball in this state has lead to this situation.

Yes Woodville had promises made to them when they entered the dome afetr leaving Athol Park, how ever that does not mean anything now as the people who made those promises have been forced out due to the ir inability to do their duty.

Reply #107842 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Isaac,

I think that you will find it is more of the method of operation and attitude that has woodville feeling agrieved by the DHD management.

If the 36ers and/or the Dome are interested in fostering a relationship with basketball in SA then they need to understand that the only reason the 36ers were able to get crowds of up to 7000 in the past was because junior district basketball was organised around the NBL calander.

Why should district basketball ever again move it's games from a Friday night if it clashes with the 36ers. I am sure that a lot more families would consider having their Saturday nights free as being more important than getting outn to a 36ers game on a Fridy night!

Why should people who have had their sport bankrupted becasue of the money that Phil, other coaches, and the NBL players, have taken which have turned BASA into it's current position?

Kent,

It is the 36ers that ran basketball in this state bankrupt, not clubs like woodville.

Reply #107846 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Victa, where does Hemmerling come into the picture? A natural enemy of the canteen lady I suppose?

If you still hold Groves and Hemmerling responsible for Woodville's canteen situation, would you care to elaborate on your thinking?

Reply #107847 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Anon, Kent didn't suggest that Woodville bankrupted the sport. He suggested that the decision makers involved are no longer in charge and I believe that's correct.

You're still talking about the past. What I'm saying is that ice and pies F.U.D. is ludicrous. Why is Hemmerling even named in the topic of this thread?

The negotiations are between Groves as owner of the venue and Woodville. They're ongoing (unless your sole source is the canteen lady). If the issue was the "method of operation", why have ice and pies been dragged into it? We could've had this as an anti-Smyth thread from the very beginning! And Squid will agree with you that it's partly Mark Nash's fault too!

Here's my bet - long after the 36ers have been entangled from junior basketball, people and their clubs will still be screwing things up. Clubs will still be fighting about bellyflopping juniors, poaching, who actually developed which player, and clubs will still be in debt. The excuses and blame might change, but so much else won't.

Reply #107850 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Isaac, yes the response is Athol Park when other people complain about the "free ride" Woodville get.

If Woodville had their way, they never would have moved from Athol Park. But they were forced to, so that the inept previous management could make their precious Dome look good and useful at all times.

Woodville, it would appear to me, have probably become reliant on this scenario, and never really envisioned the deal ending. A little bit of bad planning on their part.

For Victa to use the topic heading he did smacks of sensationalism at best, Hemmerling would have had no part in it.

As for the situation that could eventuate now, Woodville could be asked to rent the stadium, but have no income stream from doing so.

This is a club that struggles as it is, to attract the "better range" ABL players, to keep juniors interested, to attract the higher skilled coaches.

Should negotiations end Woodville's situation of no rent, and then also withdraw their income stream, it would smack of removing the level playing field.

How could Woodville compete with the Forestville's etc (and not blaming Forestville, they have a great set up!), who get their bar and canteen incomes?

I appreciate that negotiations are ongoing, are far from a done deal, but what benefit would occur from almost surely sending a club to the financial wall??

PS : I do not play, coach or have any family that plays or coaches at Woodville, just an interested bystander.

Reply #107851 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

Anon I think you will find that the sixers as has been documeneted where the only profitable basketball entity in the state. The miss management of the past has caused the situation you now find your self in.

If Woodville has not allowed BASA to move them from a stadium that they owned freehold then this discussion would not even be happening.

Reply #107852 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Kent,

Actually, it is the staff that was involved with running the 36ers that sent BASA through the hoop.

District junior basketball had 1 staff member, (the well over worked and underpaid Colin Thompson) that dealt with district seniors and juniors. ($500k+ profit) Pasadena as a stadium by itself was able to generate enough income ($200K) to pay the stadium managers. And the Development Manager and his staff are paid by a government grant.

So district basketball and social basketball generates a profit of over $500K. Now remember that the dome repayments were cancel over the period since 2000. And yet BASA needed to ask for a $2.8M loan. Where exactly did this $2.8M come from? What level of basketball costs that much?

Reply #107855 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Isaac,

I think you will find that people here 'consider' the Groves-Hemmerling situation to be closer than being portrayed.

Reply #107856 | Report this post


The Early Bird  
Years ago

Isaac

This is the first time I believe you have started to fire up on this website. Over Hemmerling??

Whats the connection. Dont get me wrong I believe you are write in saying that Hemmerling has nothing to do with it. Just seems a bit strange seeing you articulatly saying Victa is wrong.

Reply #107857 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I appreciate that negotiations are ongoing, are far from a done deal, but what benefit would occur from almost surely sending a club to the financial wall??
What benefits exist for Groves were he to prop them up? He owes nothing to them and artificially supporting them will teach nothing.

Shift venues. And if anyone wants to bitch about Athol Park and the reasons basketball ended up in the mess they did, don't drag these new owners into it.
This is a club that struggles as it is, to attract the "better range" ABL players, to keep juniors interested, to attract the higher skilled coaches.
Wait a minute, didn't the Warriors top the league just a couple of years ago? Weren't they spending money on an import, twice? Didn't they have an ex-NBA player as their coach (not making any claims to success or player satisfaction though). The Warriors have excellent home grown talent - Wilson, Ng, Birmingham, Fuller, etc - any losses there aren't the fault of anyone but the club and its coaches and are easily rectified.

Reply #107859 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

At the end of the day the relevant parties will work together to come to a fair arrangement in a business relationship.

Gone are the days where clubs got looked after, was no different from most other clubs. All those private arrangements are now over.

Woodville's so called home venue is now privately run. The fact that Woodville are there now and have been able to stay in place while the changeover was happening shows plenty of goodwill on the part of the new owners.

To expect management of a venue the size of the Dome to give anyone something for nothing while covering the expenses of power, water, gas etc is just not realistic.

From what I can tell the new management has given up a lot to current hirers including Woodville. If Eddy or Dome management read a thread such as this maybe they might think twice about the allowences they've given up in the future as their goodwill clearly isn't appreciated.

At the end of the day I would think Woodville staying or going elsewhere would have little impact on the bottom line of the Dome's figures. The fact they're still there and so to is Basketball SA (juniors & social) as well as groups like the Salvos suggests to me that management of a multimillion dollar, multi purpose venue are giving something back to grass roots basketball.

Just my two cents worth ...

Reply #107861 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon

I dont think you will find anyone involved with Woodville are in the slightest unappreciative of the deals that have allowed Woodville to be at the Dome, past, or present arrangements.

Isaac, I never intended to drag Groves into the current situation, and agree he shouldn't be.

I just got slightly irritated when you made the flippant Athol Park comment. Like it or not, when discussing the situation Woodville is in, Athol Park HAS to come in to the equation. IF it wasn't for the mis managers of BASA at the time, Woodville would probably still be there, and running quite well.

I fully understand Groves has to run the Dome as a business, and do not blame him for doing so (you dont make money by giving it away!)

However, I am concerned that a worst case scenario could eventuate which will see Woodville literally homeless and fold.

I don't think St Clair would really solve the situation, as last time I was there, there was no bar, and the canteen money would surely go to the owners (council???). I don't know what situation Norwood has with MARS, or Centrals with Starplex, and how they get an income stream, but something maybe Woodville needs to start looking at.

Reply #107864 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sturt are homeless I don't see them reminding us of that fact every chance they get.

Apart from a last minute rescue for ABA games Norwood are still homeless and have been for a long time. I don't see them coming on here complaining. South get the luxury of hiring a tin shed which has two courts and at the same rate as Forestville hire Wayville for; again no complaints.

There are plenty of reasons why people bite back at the mere mention of Athol Park. Some (and it's not the majority) need to understand that Athol Park was not Woodville's. To continually bring it up in every arguement is just pointless.

Reply #107868 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

107856, very aware of that. I have pulled many threads over that exact issue and guess which side I stood on? That's fine if you're associating Groves with the 36ers, but has no relevance if reversed, right?

Early Bird, I am worse than this, I just keep it pleasant so that people don't get upset. I have no relationship with Mal Hemmerling other than having Hemmerling Basketball Pty Ltd as a client. I've not even met Mal.

But I'm not a big fan of people running to the forum to sensationalise non-issues like the canteen lady's view on in-progress negotiations (won't somebody think of the ice?) or a 14 year old girl falling on an opponent, etc.

If you can find me something else to argue about, that'd be great too.

Reply #107869 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Anon, I brought up Athol Park in response to Brockman - it wasn't intended as a flippant comment. I have heard the history of those decisions and agree that it was a silly move.

As for Norwood and Centrals, AFAIK they get no revenue from those canteens.

Artificial support impedes development. If you always carry a baby around, it won't learn to walk. Put Woodville down in St Clair or whatever people judge to be the best option and see what happens. If it can't survive, what's the point in propping it up? It will be a drain on BSA resources forever otherwise. (And this would go for any club in a similar situation - I have no beef with Woodville at all.)

Reply #107879 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I know you have no beef with Woodville Isaac, as you know I have no beef with any club at all.

To the anon who mentioned SWturt being homeless...technically they are, for an unknown duration (what IS happening with Pasadena??) but at the end of the day, they will get their stadium back.

Norwood too could haqve very well been facing the same situation given they were having to use the Dome as a base for a season, luckily for them the MARS thing got sorted.

I do not want to approportion blame to anyone here. BSA should ensure that Woodville are not severely disadvantaged by what has happened, but likewise Woodville need to be proactive and look at options (as I beleive they are doing) and seeing what options are available to them.

Let's hope all interested parties can gain something out of the negotiations.

Reply #107883 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

How would them going to another venue severely disadvantage them if other clubs are going without canteen revenue also?

Reply #107884 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not saying they are going to be, just saying BSA should have to have some sort of responsibility to ensure they aren't.

Reply #107890 | Report this post


Magpie  
Years ago

IMO Groves owes nothing to grass roots bball in this state at all.

You did not need a crystal ball to see that the change in ownership of the Dome would eventually have an effect on Woodville.

Isaac, if we didnt get on here and complaine about no pies, ice and girls flopping, this would be a very boring site.

The fact that we can talk about all aspects of Bball, be it the current standings in the NBA, right down to little Johnny not getting enough court time, is what makes this site so great.

Thats my two cents.

Reply #107894 | Report this post


Magpie  
Years ago

Oh, and the fact I have read everyone of these threads proves I have no life.

Reply #107895 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Can some-one please explain to me how there is any type of level playing field when Forestville are paying the same rent as Marion. I am not privy to all the financial gymnastics but how can a team like South or perhaps North or West compete with the likes of Forestville and Sturt with their facilities. More courts, more games, more people coming into those stadiums spending money at the bar or canteen. And, given first impressions of a stadium and its facilities where would someone choose to go - Marion/Hillcrest or Wayville/Pasadena. I know this is simplistic but can some-one explain what I am missing from the equation.

Reply #107905 | Report this post


Dr Damage  
Years ago

Easy.
It's not a level playing field.
Why would you expect it to be?
West Adelaide had the whole of adelaide in the 70's and 80's because their stadium was central.

It is no different now.
Success breeds success.

Reply #107906 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

But who is subsidising the cheaper rent of a place like wayville v marion - certainly not borne by forestville!

Reply #107910 | Report this post


xztatik  
Years ago

great call magpie, lol.

Reply #107928 | Report this post


borat  
Years ago

talk about holy wars!

commonsense by all please ... a canteen is better than no canteen.

rent where rent is due

realistic fiscal ventures

dome is HQ and flagship - let's keep it that way

Reply #107939 | Report this post


borat  
Years ago

in fact - more importantly - can we talk about that Opals T shirt being marketed on the front page of the BA web site

Reply #107940 | Report this post


6 pairs of hands  
Years ago

How can I lay my hands on a couple Borat?

Reply #107947 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Dr Damage,
how do u explain your clubs current failings in juniors but also seniors after the success (which you were a part of) of the past?

things seem to be slipping further and further backwards under the weight of the masses and other issues (no gym, lack of experienced/skilled coaches etc.).

Reply #107964 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How about Southerns deal when they did not have to pay for Sunday trainings for nearly 20 years.Free court hire, How about that for a sweetner. .

Reply #107978 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Given things are in transition at the moment I trust one of the areas being considered is the have's and have nots: the arrangement for stadia and court hire, the ability to generate revenue from bar/canteen which is heavily influenced by the venue and the number of games scheduled at the venue based on the number of courts. It is time to even things up a bit that gives every club a starting point to develop and grow. How do clubs with poorer stadium facilities generate extra revenue to facilitate the development of youngsters. I concur that the clubs which are set up in "better" facilties havea head start in attracting the undecided player. I know there are other influences which determine where a person might go but if a club is doing everything as well as another club nine times out of ten that better player will go where facilties are better.

Reply #107989 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

This is what I will never understand about SA basketball.

During a period where Sturt have no stadium to play out of. Have no canteen and bar revenue. Have only a small, startup domestic competition. And, play in a competition which is very lop sided. They still managed to win 2 Gold Medals at the Classics.

Now remember that Dandenong have a 10 court stadium with the revernue for the Bar, Canteen and competitions. They have a domestic comp that is the size of the BASA district competiton.

So how in the hell does this happen???

Best practise methods!

Clubs need to look hard at their methods of operations. They need to embrase domestic competitions and increase their size. They need to accept that the world of handouts is gone and survival starts not from BSA looking after them, but rather them looking at improving.

Woodville are in the situation they find themselves becasue they sat on their butt's and let KB and the ABA programs rob them of money. Money mind you that came from a sweet deal from BASA. (Who went broke becasue of these types of deals)

Put a plan together and get going at finding other stadiums.

If all the clubs sity back and wait for BSA to help them, they are in for a rude shock. They have gone from being the sharholders to the equivalent of the Western Magic in their position of power in the new basketball.

Reply #108003 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Perhaps it's time for an update on what changes, orchestrated by BSA, are on the table. The sale of the 6ers and Dome have been the headlines with the restructure but I can't recall seeing too much detail on what is happening at the grass roots.

Reply #108013 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Right now BSA is sorting out who are member clubs and who are not. Nothing will happen until that is sorted out at least.

Reply #108028 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why is that taking so long???

Reply #108030 | Report this post


6 pairs of hands  
Years ago

Dont they know who is and who is not? Did they accidently shred that info along with everthing else back in July/ August?

Reply #108041 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Isaac,"What's the real sulk". The canteen will be closed and no ice.

Reply #108060 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Woodville training side by side with Magic at St. Clair? That would be an interesting sight....

Reply #108062 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Anon, negotiations are still in progress, the Woodville canteen will still be open on Monday, and will stay open until negotiations conclude at the earliest.

What are you talking about?

At this rate, I'm beginning to hope that it will close...

Reply #108067 | Report this post


Libertine  
Years ago

Just send gun-dad into the negotiations. Not only will meat pies and ice be given free to all woodville patrons, but Athol Park and its dodgy roof will be bought back for free and we can all work on our tennis skills!

(Or people can stop whinging, and do what other clubs have been doing for years which is generating enough income to ensure that their club stays afloat, regardless of situation with stadium/canteen/number of players and remains fairly competitive at all levels from U10s to Seniors)

Reply #108213 | Report this post


Magpie  
Years ago

Last time I checked, Woodville had a BBQ. Get a roster going and cook some snags and sell some drinks out front of the Dome every local game nite. You can earn at least $200-$300 a night, profit. Sure it may not be as much as the canteen pulled, but its better than $0.00.

We will then see how many Woodville parents who are complaining that "we dont have a bar" or "we dont have a canteen", or "Forestville have this", "Southern have that", actually put their hands up to do something about the situation.

I did a number of BBQ's for my club last season and the profit margin was outstanding.

Only problem is, someone actually has to get off their butt and organize it!

BBQ's are not the only answer; however gazing into the crystal ball, I see one less club in three years time unless you jump on the front foot now.

Reply #108222 | Report this post


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Last year

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