Anonymous
Years ago

Lets Scrap Silly Season-Now!

If summer half a season continues then obviously nothing has changed at BSA.
This wasted, silly, bye ridden empty 11 weeks is nothing but a drain on everybody with the senior 1 teams also fielding teams with under 16,18's and Div 2's to make the numbers.
With school events draing players and clubs battling to fill teams can't someone switch on the lights.
Make the winter season a 26 or so season and give the kids and parents a chance to smell the roses.Kids would freshen and it would feel like a decent break was had.
Rhetoric about how its a grading season and very important time for this and that reason is rubbish. Enough is enough, get rid of it and don't bleed all over us with having empty stadiums for an extra 8 weeks. Picking up on another thread and development, this would be a great time to run camps for the div 2 and 3's that people say don't get the opportunities.

Topic #9605 | Report this topic


4th Spazzy  
Years ago

Good call Anonymous...
My son (who posts as AK-47)played district for 2 & 1/2 years at div 1, 2 & 3 levels, He really enjoyed playing at that level... but one of the reasons he left was there never was a break from all the training and playing...he just got tired of it all...he was asked to come back and play div 1 this year and he told them he wasnt interested, he is playing 2 games a week for the school and enjoying the breaks in between seasons....i doubt he will play distict again in its current format....i wonder how many other kids are is this situation?...

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anon  
Years ago

absolutely agree and i am die hard basketball junkie
have a fair dinkum break allow volunteers to recharge
kids to recharge
would reduce expenses quite considerably and make season more competive with renewed energy

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Mags13  
Years ago

i find it odd that a while ago i made a similar comment like this and i was surprised of how badly i got put down by others who disagree. In the summer season i think it should be getting fit and focusing on the big season to come. What if players want to start doing gym sessions, or fitness work? it's very difficult to find the time when you have 2-3 training sessions or 2-3 games a week. Summer should be getting mentally and physically prepared for the winter season to come. This is the only sport i know of which it is played all year round and it is extremely exhilirating on us players and i trust me i live for this game. It's all i do but even the most obsessed need a break.

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Cultural  
Years ago

Won't happen - IT SHOULD - and would be a boon for the game but quite simply the d..... heads that run the game see it as revenue lost that they can spend. Who would pay thier wages down at the Dome etc as well they would not be able to justify thier meanial existence - what would they then do with thier time ?

Reply #109298 | Report this post


Yes agree....or at least only have 1 1 hr. training session a week + game.

Reply #109299 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

There are a couple of reasons we nered to play during term 4.

1/ We used to start our season after the Christmas break. It wasn't until after we moved to the term 4 start that our sport really kicked off. It is almost impossible to organise trials and squads during the summer break. If yout hink we have a high number of pull outs and forfiets now. It was probably double that before the term 4 start.

2/ All other states have competitions which run full calander year. Usually these are domestic comeptitions. But if we want our players to compete on a National and International level they need a continued development from the playing and training.

3/ All other states finish their seasons at the end of term 3, leading into the U14 clubs. Our state is the only state which does not have domestic competitions. In Victoria for example, the grading season (theirs is a proper grading season) starts mid november. But during this time, players are also playing on their domestic comp. So o9r comp needs to finish in September as well.

If you or your kid doesn't want to play or train over the summer season then don't.

But when your kid has other players improve more than them. Don't come back o here winging that they have missed out on a State team, or a div 1 team because it is purely the fact that they don't have the commitment to make those teams.

Reply #109310 | Report this post


2nd Mouse  
Years ago

Ok, Anon 109310, you want to keep up with the Eastern States, then move there. We are not as big and do not have the population playing basketball to warrant following them in everything they do.

If you want to keep the Summer Season, how about limiting it to only one training per week plus the game. If players really want to put in the extra work to make that State or Div 1 team then they will do it off their own back, not becuase some coach is yelling at them to.

While we are on that subject, maybe it wouldnt be so hard to find coaches if the commitment (if only for some of the year) wasnt so great.

And by the way, how many years ago was it decided to start in term 4? Maybe things have changed in the last 15 years - Pity BASA's/BSA's thinking hasnt.

Reply #109318 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

2nd mouse,

If we don't have the ability of the Eastern states, why do we have 6 out of 24 AIS players this year? What other state can boast that? In 2005 why did we have a GOld and Silver medal at the 14 Nationals? I guess some people would be able to open their eye's and see what sort of deevlopment is happening in SA.

And if your kid only wants to train once per week, then only train once per week. Easy soultion. But don't complain wehen other kids improve more than your kid.

Why should our compeittion be built around kids and families without commitment?

For all those people who want to start in term 1 and play 6 - 8 months of the year, just start up you own comp with all those hundreds of kids that only want to play in that comp. If there are so many players that only want to do this then the comp weill flourish and the BSA comp will die a natural death.

Either that or all the kids who want to improve will move to the committed clubs. Your choice!

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Izzy  
Years ago

Be interesting to see whether the drop out rate would improve though with no silly season.....

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Anonymous  
Years ago

You would find that kids would lose touch and move to other sports.

With nothing to do over summer they would do other things and not as many would come back to the clubs.

Therefore clubs would need to pull more teams out and create more problems for scheduling. Adn we would have a deacrease in the overall standard, due to a lack of development.

but for all those families who want to not play summer, don't. Do other things like go fishing, go to the beach. It's not that hard to make a decision that yo think is in your best interest.

Reply #109331 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Dont confuse BSA with the clubs. The clubs vote to run these comps and are not ordered to by BSA. BSA is the governing body, far different to BASA.

For what it is worth.....The Senior summer comp (Div 1 & 2... Silly Season) should start in mid to late Jan, 10 clubs, two groups of 5, round robin with cross over finals. Gives all clubs great "pre season" games and allows for any running, weights etc that they may wish to do over Nov, Dec, Jan.

Reply #109333 | Report this post


Orlando Smith  
Years ago

I like the silly season for Junior basketball, but I hate it for seniors.

An 8 game Division 1 summer season is only good for giving young players a run in the team as an introduction. I would like to see a 27 or 31 round main season (i am a fan of 2 divisions) and scrap the summer season all together. The players and coaches want a longer season, by abolishing the summer season (which the volunteers work anyway) the strain on the club is compacted into 6-7 months instaed of 12 and allows senior basketball officials and staff put into the junior programs at their clubs in the off season.

I think it is win-win

Reply #109336 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#310
One word for your reply, rubbish!
There is absolutely no reason to justify summer season but club piggy banks and its about time they got their snouts out of the trough and did what was best for players.
Name another sport that plays continuosly and has thre drop out rates of basketball in the post 16's.
Small minds with big ego's are never going to grow the sport of basketball.
None of the other sports that play seasonally are afraid of losing players so much they run it all year around? basketball needs to Grow up!

Reply #109337 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Orlando,

Looks like a great idea. give it too your club committee and have it put forward to the BSA senior committee.

anon #109337,

Your ignorance astounds me. Clubs do not make any money from the compeittions. They make a little from fee's (most of which goes into court hire) and canteens (for those few who actually have them).
But this would never pay for the volunteer time put in. If you think that clubs are playing full year to make more money you really are on another planet.

I will answer your question with another question! Which sport that plays seasonally is an Olympic sport? Considering the number of nations that lay football, you cant compare it too basketball. If kids choose to play a third tier sport in this nation beacuse of the media and sponsorship dollars, well these kids aren't going to make it is basketball anyway.

And as for drop out rates. Look at any sport and you will see that there are big drop out rates at 16 years old due to school, work and other priorites. If anybody thinks that the number of kids playing football or cricket at the age of 16 is even close to those playing in primary school. Well then they my friend are not very smart. And both netball and tennis can be played all year round, so they don't count as seasonal anymore.

Reply #109344 | Report this post


VC fan  
Years ago

Things like football may be seasonal but most football teams, even in amateur leagues have started training already, not really much of a break is it?

There are always going to be people who want to play all year round to keep their fitness and skills up, this is what the summer season is for. Like other people have said, if you are going to come on here and complain about it, why dont you just not play the summer season, sit back and enjoy your 'time off'
but whatever you do dont complain that other people have gotten better than you just because they have more dedication.

Also, how many juniors do you know who play footy as well as cricket? They dont seem to be complaining about needing a break, they play because they love their sport. If you need a break, take it, but dont be selfish and try to take away sport that other people live for and love to play.

Reply #109372 | Report this post


Izzy  
Years ago

VC fan, what's to say though in 5 years time that the kids who took the break are still playing and improving as their hunger is still there where the others have had enough? Would be interesting to compare the amount of basketball that a 13 year old kid does in Australia compared to a 13 year old in the U.S and even Lithuania - a strong basketball country.

Reply #109374 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Izzy,

A 15 year old kid in Lithuania would be attending a basketball school where they do 3 subjects. One is set up by Sabonis and Marsellinus

Basketball, Computing and English.

They would be training for 4 - 6 hours a day, 6 days a week.

Reply #109389 | Report this post


Izzy  
Years ago

Yes, but for how much of the year?

Reply #109393 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#344
One reason clubs gave for maintaining a summer season was that the stadiums would just collect dust and no revenue.
On your Olympic question, basketball is likely to be dropped from competition either in China or the following one so probably not worth arguing.
Rugby,Rugby League,Cricket,(are they international enough for you) have defined seasons. Also there is a good argument for basketball being a winter sport given the stadiums and heat danger associated with them. Its an OHS&W issue but it will take a tragedy like always to have authorities act.
Netball does play year round but is not compulsory or valued and gradings for the real season occur and teams are selected that often contain very few of the players from their crazy season.
Many more kids continue in cricket , football and the like than basketball and have a look at under 21 basketball teams numbers and clubs who dont even have one.
The most telling point here is the pressure exerted upon Div 1 players to play summer and the consequences for not playing. No junior Div 1 player can afford not to play under the present structure so it is idiotic to suggest they have a choice and can do otherwise.
Come up with valid reasons why they play and prove you're not ignorant.

Reply #109401 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anybody listen or read Ken Cole's opinion on this when here 6 weeks ago..The more basketball the better..where are all the kids that want to play day & night....

Its probably not the kids that want a break though?

Remember., every minute that you are not practicing, some one some where is getting better then you!

Reply #109428 | Report this post


RIP REGGIE LEWIS  
Years ago

109401,

This is my first post to this thread, but I read your posts. You are shooting the target with blanks.

Dont even get met started about clubs noses lining the troughs. That is so funny.

#344
"One reason clubs gave for maintaining a summer season was that the stadiums would just collect dust and no revenue."

- THe clubs dont own stadiums, they did not give that reason. The clubs derive almost no income from stadiums. Clubs dont run at a profit as such. Its the owners of stadiums would not let them not generate revenue. If clubs were not using them someone else would. Do you think owners (schools, councils, BSA) are going to be able to let millions of $$ in investment sit there and not be used. No club said that, I think you are lieing, clubs dont care about stadiums generating revenue, they do care about what they think is best for basketball.

"On your Olympic question, basketball is likely to be dropped from competition either in China or the following one so probably not worth arguing."

- I cannot see basketball been dropped as an olympic sport. Basketball is huge throughout Europe and the US and has been in the olympics since the 1936 olympics (when it was not a major international sport). It is already set for the 2012 olympics in London and CHina have been building their olympic infrastructure for the past 7-8 years (including basketball stadiums). Its too late they cant pull it out. Baseball is not going to be in 2012 though.

"Also there is a good argument for basketball being a winter sport given the stadiums and heat danger associated with them. Its an OHS&W issue but it will take a tragedy like always to have authorities act. "

- Are you serious? BSA have had a policy in place for this for over 5 years. I can safely tell you no one has died from heat in a District game in SA in the past 20 yrs. They worked with the authorities to set up the policy. Leading Doctors, yes those that study for 10 yrs to get a PHD.


"Netball does play year round but is not compulsory or valued and gradings for the real season occur and teams are selected that often contain very few of the players from their crazy season."

- Valid point. Maybe this is something basketball needs to look at. However your good point is clouded by sooo many misinformed statements it really does not do this point any justice.

"The most telling point here is the pressure exerted upon Div 1 players to play summer and the consequences for not playing. No junior Div 1 player can afford not to play under the present structure so it is idiotic to suggest they have a choice and can do otherwise."

- No pressure on the kids. The kids put the pressure on themselves because they want to play Div 1. Do you think a Div 3 kid is goign to care about taking a summer season off as much as a div 1 kid? Its simple, its their choice, if you didnt play summer season then someone else could take their spot. They can always come back through the lower divisions and earn their spot back.

- Do the maths. District basketball is the elite level. You get 9 in the top team. Its a big commitment if you are not up to the level. Yes kids drop off because they dont want to compete at that level or dont want to/cant put the time in. Plenty of kids could be playing under 17s/19s for SANFL clubs but chose not to. They play for local clubs. What is needed is better competitions between district and social.

- This is coming from somone that played right through the junior basketball system, have been an administrator and into seniors and now coaches in it. Ive experienced it from all the angles. Your comments make it appear that you dont really have much knowledge and prefer to paint "the clubs" in a poor light, morally, ethically, knowledgably (made up word). Let me kindly suggest you get your facts right and then contribute what you know not what you don't.

Reply #109433 | Report this post


Cultural  
Years ago

#344

When are you gonna accept that the "3rd tier sport"you are talking about is actually basketball. How can you call football and cricket and soccer etc levels below.

Get back in the real world and stop thinking of your blue veined self indulgent clubs self interest

Reply #109463 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Rip
'Clubs don't run at a profit and generate almost no income from stadiums' Are all the clubs insolvent then?
"the owners of the stadiums wouldn't let them generate revenue" Several stadiums have the ability to generate income, many have bars and canteens that provides an income stream while it is true others may have facilities that the stadium owner provide and consequently the club does not benefit. So your statement is not correct.
Clubs need to be open and playing to generate revenue and that has been stated on this forum before.
On the heat issue and the ambiguous advice given by BSA and who is responsible for stopping play on extreme heat days, I have been at stadiums around the traps where the temperature exceeds a safe playing temperature and play has continued in what I and others consider dangerous conditions. IMO a player will have to die for proper protection to take effect.I believe it to be a forseeable risk and thus preventable. Like the softball carnival sometime ago in the North when in retrospect everyone was wise. 'The we played in it and we were tough' attitude should be long gone.
Basketball is facing strong opposition from the anti professional sportperson lobby which is getting stronger within the olympic movement.
You also say that its a kids choice to quit summer and let some one else get their spot which is missing the point entirely.There is no choice for them if they love the game and there should be.
IMO administrators don't really see the problems and they're not orphans with Basketall being driven by too many people from the old school when we need more progressive pro active people more willing to embrace newer, better and safer practices and take the lead not follow.
You sound like a person who played ball in a tin shed in 120 degrees, walked 20 kms to school with no shoes and it was good enough for you and its bloody good enough for them now, so whats the problem.
I appreciate the efforts you and fellow administrators have put into the sport and continue to do so but its pointless not trying to see some validity in the issues raised here as important to the sport we are all involved in.
If enough people see certain issues as concerns, shooting the messenger hardly solves the problems and reinforces the notion that no onein basletball listens.

Reply #109465 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Cultural,

Football is a third tier sport that happens to have a large amount of sponsorship dollars pumped into it.

It is not an Internaitonal sport. ie It is not played in other countries.

It is not a National Sport. ie It is barley played in Qld and NSW. (approx. half of Australia's population)

So it is a semi-National Sport. All be it, with a large media and sponsorship base.

So Cultual, go to your clubs adm,iniatraiot and ask for them to not put teams i the summer season and you will see that it is not just 1 club that wants the summer season. PS I wounder how many kids from your club would move to another club if they didn't have the opportunity to play over summer. Give it a try and see how it goes.

Reply #109466 | Report this post


RIP REGGIE LEWIS  
Years ago

465,

All clubs are not insolvent. There is a difference between an accounting profit and economic profit. Economics 101. Clubs may generate a profit but they are non-profit organisations, the stakeholders in the club ensure the money goes back into basketball. They are not pocketing the money as you accused earlier. Your quote on my post is a misquote. Notice the double negative in my original post. In other words the owners of stadiums would not let the stadium not generate revenue. In other words the owners are going to make sure there is someone out there on the court all year round. Whether the clubs use it or not, someone will be there basketball.

The BSA policy on heat is not very ambiguous. My understanding is they use the Wet Bulb Globe provided by Sports Medicine Australia as a guide. This is developed with medicos and the BOM. This provides advice as to whether games should be cancelled. Then they take into account the stadium itself. Are there fans or air conditioners. Doesnt take a genius to figure it out.

- "IMO administrators don't really see the problems and they're not orphans with Basketall being driven by too many people from the old school when we need more progressive pro active people more willing to embrace newer, better and safer practices and take the lead not follow."

What do you base this knowledge on? I have hardly met a basketball administrator that didn't have some half decent business acumen, pretty progressive, knowledge on the sport, and knowledge on what kids/parents wanted (99% of them are actually parents from a professional background). Why don't you put your hand up to become an administrator?

- "You sound like a person who played ball in a tin shed in 120 degrees, walked 20 kms to school with no shoes and it was good enough for you and its bloody good enough for them now, so whats the problem."

Again - Wrong, Im still pretty young - 20s. Its only in the past few yrs I played my last game of District (Div 1) Basketball.

I would love to agree with you but your statements are just false. Very few of things you say have any hint of accuracy. The main problem you have is your statements are based on the false premise that Basketball clubs are in it to make a "profit" and that is why summer season exists. They are not. They are there to develop their basketball clubs. Owners of stadiums will run basketball whether the summer seasons exists or not.

Yes the kid might have a break over summer. This does not mean they dont love the game just means they may not play div 1 in the main season. Thats life. Trust me if they have the talent to take summer season off and earn their spot back then no coach with half a brain will say; ahhh you didnt play summer season so you cant play div 1.

If your kid wants to take summer off to do something elseor they are worried they will die from been forced to play in excessive heat. I would suggest you let them. Its not the end of the world if they do this. Just make sure they are good enough to get back there. If they hit the gym over the break they may even pass kids by that move into Div 1.











Reply #109470 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

agreed

Reply #109472 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #109465

Here is the direct link fromt he BSA website:

http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDS65004.shtml

This shows the TCO (Thermal Comfort Observations) which gives BSA the ability to stop matches.

Looks fairly on the money to me. without any real way of playing when players shouldn't.

Reply #109474 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#474
Are these in all stadiums?

Reply #109484 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How does this estimated temperature device work and how does it apply to a stadium temperature?

Reply #109487 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Look at the website.

Reply #109509 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It would have really got a work-out if it was installed in the old Sturt stadium!

Reply #109510 | Report this post


LI  
Years ago

It would be a pity if this interesting thread would turn out in a hot weather policy thread.

High temps are not limited to the silly season; it can be hot at the start of the winter season.

So the argument should focus on the relentless on-going intensity in basketball, need for rest (body and mind), combination with exams etc.

465, I thought it a great post. Responses such as:
"you are a dumbass so keep your mouth shut", or
"if you don't like it, leave" portray the respondent as a closed-minded person with a hang towards totalitarianism.

Some changes cannot be made by a single club, or even by a single state. That doesn't mean that they are not worth considering or discussing.


Reply #109514 | Report this post


RIP REGGIE LEWIS  
Years ago

Li

465s comments are consistent throughout the thread and I beleive they were from the same person. They include this earlier in 337:

"#310
One word for your reply, rubbish!
There is absolutely no reason to justify summer season but club piggy banks and its about time they got their snouts out of the trough and did what was best for players.
Name another sport that plays continuosly and has thre drop out rates of basketball in the post 16's.
Small minds with big ego's are never going to grow the sport of basketball.
None of the other sports that play seasonally are afraid of losing players so much they run it all year around? basketball needs to Grow up! "

Their comments continue to include many aspects that are based upon falseties including the false premise of why clubs want summer seasons (to make money) and the people involved in running clubs. It shows a complete lack of understanding IMO.

Reply #109520 | Report this post


LI  
Years ago

RIP,

I agree, clubs don't make money, they mostly try to make ends meet.

However, 465 (and 401) also say that no junior Div 1 player can afford not to play under the present structure, because of the pressure exerted upon Div 1 players and the consequences for not playing.
There are people out there who could do with a break, see the first three posts in this thread. Neither I nor my kid is one of them, but it is still worth while to listen to those messages and take them seriously by discussing the options, rather than bagging them (the latter also brought up by 465).

I read somewhere else that
"Scott Ninnis, Jason Williams, Paul Rogers, Matt Illman all were average U16 players who would not have been ranked close to State level in U16's. All played NBL because they were willing to put in the time and effort."

My question is:
How come the State level U 16s from these times were not willing to put in the time and effort to become NBL players?
Got burnt out at the age of 16-17?
If so, would we be able to achieve a higher level of basketball in Australia (and lose less kids to other sports) by reducing the relentless intensity for players of senior highschool age?

Reply #109618 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

LI,

Most of the U16 State teams are made up of players that are early maturers. They therefore have a strength and size advantage in this age group. They therrefore do not need to work as hard at dfeveloping their skills as other players. Some will anyway, but some wont.

Generally, 3 - 6 players who make any U16 team do not make the U18 state team.

When players maturity levels even out it is often those players willing to continue to work hard that will make U18 and U20 teams.

The drop out rate is generally due to the fact that when these players move to senior levels, as a dominant junior, they work out that they are not really that good and will not be able to make the grade and move of into other aspects of their life.

There are only a limited number positions in senior teams. 100 to be exact. And each your there are another 80+ junior in U18's wanting to move into these postition.

Unless each persaon only played 2 years of seniors, there simply is not alot of opportunity for young players.

If you look at the number of teams in competitions, the drop of is when kids lerave school and either get jobs or go to uni.

Currently BSA has 56 U16 teams and 51 U18 teams. That to me is not a massive drop off. However there are only 26 U20 teams. Come of these players might be playing div 3/4/5 seniors but this is where the drop of is. When othert things like work and uni get in the way of being able to play.

Reply #109624 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Li,

Scott Ninnis - the exception to the rule.

Jason Williams - played State for S.A. Metro in Under 16s

Paul Rogers - grew like 10 feet in 18 months post Under 16s

Matt Illman - wasn't that far off Under 16 selection but was a average sized guard at the time. Grew, worked hard, development and oh yeah grew.

Size has a lot to do with all of this.

Reply #109628 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#624
The drop off of the base age 18's in under 20/21(more than half) can't be simply put down to work and Uni. Doubtless it contributes but would more stay if there was only one defined seasons and bigger breaks were scheduled?
On your figures thats around 120-180 players that disappear from basketball so surely its worth looking at a single season?

Reply #109652 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #109652,

Not necesarrily, some of these players move into social competition, senior comps and just become coaches, ref's and sometimes fans.

Reply #109669 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ninno's (south)U/18 team did not have a Div 1 team in 1981, even though he was good enough!!
His first state team was 1984 u/20 Top age.

Reply #109673 | Report this post


seen it all  
Years ago

The drop out rate into U20's and beyond can be partly linked to the burnout rate and lack of opportunity - but you really have two groups here:
those that have worked their way through all the junior state programs, SASI, state rep etc.,
and
those that have worked hard at the sport irrespective of the div.
Both groups have given their all - played all year round due to the demands of the sport to play or lose your 'spot' - Given up opportunities to have a go at different sports under pressure from coaches and parents.
The first group would have trained and/or played probably 6 out of 7 days and once they leave U18's the opportunities to continue developing just aren't there and suddenly disillusion sets in and there are more players than spots on the ABA roster and the chance to go one step further and have an opportunity to train with an NBL team is even slimmer.
The second group have also spent the best part of their week either training / playing and the same applies re ABA spots, ability etc., so to play in the lower divs, you may as well go play A grade social, train less, have a bit of fun or give something else a go.
Also, basketball is no orphan here - many sports also experience the drop out rate once players reach seniors - maybe also the mum & dad factor is no longer there, nor is the personal passion for some.
It has been said in many other forums as well as this one - there needs to be a break and also in the younger grades the kids should be encouraged to play more than one sport - then basketball will pick up the passionate kids and there may just be a freshness about playing if it doesn't consume you.

Reply #109683 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Would someone in the know, please post simply why we should continue with summer season, succinctly without if's buts and maybes!

Reply #110030 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It helps our players improve more than if we didn't.

Reply #110041 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Some are missing the point - base your thoughts on evidence. How many juniors drop out at U16 particularly those top end U16's. Ask why and perhaps one can see some daylight.

I think the topic is spot on!

Reply #110313 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

ON evidence we don't lose many top end players at U16 level. we lose a coule but between 16's and 18's we only lose about 40 players total. Not many considering we have about 400. Thats only 10%. Out of 40 you would have about 4 top end.

Reply #110318 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#318
Maybe a winter season only would not only keep some of the 40 but encourage another 100 to play basketball.
I know first hand that one major stumbling block to getting new kids out and playing basketball is parents and their lack of motivation to tie themselves down for most of the year.
Administrators need to understand that whilst we have a good comp now we could have an outstanding one if we attracted more kids to the sport and having a defined season, albeit a longer winter one, numbers would grow.
Its too long now!

Reply #110340 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#041
Yes and no.
It is possible that playing continuously improves players more than if they did not play as much.
Why do we need breaks at all in anything we do?
IMO because we become stale if we dont and the key element of successful players is their intensity which no one can maintain year round.
Other sports set to peak at finals time.
Basketball has so many final type events the kids don't know when or how to taper or for what.
Do the kids peak for Eltham, Pt MacQuarie, Summer Finals, Norwood's crazy, ridiculously placed Easter Carnival, the Classics, State Champs, Nationals,or Winter Finals or sundry other carnivals not mentioned? Expectations for some is all of them?
Our local comp appear to be run simmilar to Vic but for completely different reasons. Vic has a grading summer and SA has an informal summer season where some clubs like F'ville and Sturt rotate more players.
Obviously the clubs want silly season despite there being no obvious and apparent benefit to it and whatever the reason is it remains a closely guarded secret.

Reply #110343 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

And maybe if we dont have a silly season more kids will move into other sports and the kids we do have will not improve enough to make it into elite level basketball!

If you are so concerned then talk to your club and have them not nominate teams. Nobody is being forced to nominate teams, and nobody is forcing your kid to play!

Reply #110344 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#344
No, not nominating is not an option.
"No one is forcing your kid to play". Force is very often tacit and implied and culturally enforced.
Players are expected to take part and do and rightly so as thats the structure they're committed to at the moment. However,the issue is, IMO there is too much basketball.
If you are concerned by kids playing other sports and quitting basketball then obviously that's your believe and rationale for silly season. Do you really believe if we stop playing summer the kids will walk away in droves? Do you think BBall is such a fragile sport it cant survive playing over 26 weeks without mass defections to soccer and netball? I think not.
Do you really believe the elite kids will lose their skills by not playing summer and be horribly disadvantaged come rep duties etc? I believe they'd prosper.
Do I think they should continue their SASI and individuals etc thru summer, yes definitely, but the rest from comp and club practice will lengthen their careers not circumvent it.
I accept your points are made in the best interests of bball and disagreement is common but lets continue the debate with open minds where I try to understand your views and vice versa, that way we go a long way towards geting it right-whatever that might be.

Reply #110351 | Report this post


AK-47  
Years ago

good call!

Reply #110406 | Report this post


rest is good  
Years ago

#340

You are spot on. Administrators need to start thing in the new millenium.

There are that many talented multi skilled kids out there playing other sports that would be naturals at our great game but choose not to quite simply because of they way it is run.

Its about time they scrapped SASI as it is obvious that the best kids coming through are choosing not to do it in its current format and have a proper scholarship scheme put in place in this state similar to footy and cricket.

Then you will get the very best to attend. These other sports actually talk to their young kids and tell them that they want them when they are 20 years old - the difference is they then set about looking after them. What does bball do ? Jack sh.....

Surely we have to ask ourselves why current u/16 Div 1 kids from 4 different clubs I know of (and very good players at that) are seriously considering giving the game away to play other sports. - They may not burn out physically - but mentally !!!

Reply #110409 | Report this post


VC fan  
Years ago

Izzy,
what was your point, surely you would know that a talented kid in the US would be doing much more basketball than your average south aussie district kid....

If they have the passion and hunger, they wil stay with it.

like someone has already said, every minute you dont practice, someone else is getting better than you and that is exactly the point here!

lots of kids play summer, winter, social, extra trainings, whatever else because they have determination to be the best they can.

We should be happy that they have to opportunuties to play all year round and keep improving, isnt it better to have more than less?

If we didnt have summer season these kids would have to take up something else in their spare time and would be missing out on the sport they love, dont you see this as much worse and very selfish?

No one is force to play summer season but there seems to be alot of people who 'have' to play so that they can keep up with the people playing for the love of the game....

Reply #110415 | Report this post


Orlando Smith  
Years ago

Anon #110030

You asked for someone in the know give you a reason why it should continue. I would not class myself as "In the know" but I am happy to put forward both sides.

I have coached junior and senior basketball I have played at a level (i wouldn't call it elite by any standard) but I will give my argument (I have also posted earlier about the senior side of things)

Pro: From a development side of the sport having a player play year round can only be good for the player, team, league and sport. Players have been told that someone somewhere is training longer and harder then they are and when all is said and done they will be a better basketball player.

Pro: Players will be less likely to leave the sport if they have ongoing committments to teams, clubs, teammates and coaches.

Pro: Clubs and Associations delivering basketball cannot stay financily stable by losing a large portion of their income, by scrapping the silly season (I do hate that term) clubs may lose between 1/3 to 1/2 their subs income. I know my club couldn't afford that burden

Pro: A huge gap in the team development would cause programs to start anew every winter thus lessening the impact of team development. Coaches would have to spend more time developing player skills that get rusty in the off season when they should be maintaining player skills and developing a team and team skills.

Con: Player burnout becomes a factor in the career of the player with their basketball workload including district, social, sasi, school and state not to mention all other factors in a young persons life

Con: Players and teams are forced to go through a shortened season that has a negative pulse around it 'silly season'

I actually found it difficult to come up with good reasons to scrap the summer season (at the junior level) I think we should keep the junior competition but get rid of the stigma around the summer season by having a more equal season that doesn't have the image of a money grabbing, shortened, season. As there is not a national competition for juniors (meaning ABA style based competition) where we are forced to comply with a National Championship Week(end) as it is different times for different age groups I think that 2 full seasons of 5 months with a 2 month break (2 weeks 4 times a year) would be a great system. season 1 would run from November to April Finishing with State Championships (christmas and easter off) Season 2 would run from May to October (each age groups has national championships weeks off as well as 2 weeks later in the season).

Again I am not 'In the know' and this idea will have some holes in it but I believe it is workable and gives players breaks without giving up the sport or loosing more players to other sports.

Regards
Tubby

Reply #110417 | Report this post


Michelle  
Years ago

For all of those who say keep the silly season because it's needed if you want to be amongst the best...

You know what, Football/Cricket might not be up there on the "Elite Olympic Staduim" where your dreams lay but us over here playing on the grass actually realise that only a very select few make it that far anyway.

Give the game back to the Average Joe and his family if you want the game (not yourself) to move forward.

(or else relocate to Victoria, after all that is commitment)

Reply #110421 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Thanks Tubby.

Reply #110422 | Report this post


Axeman  
Years ago

The kids (& parents)that do not want to commit to the summer season, should just move on and have a rest.

If you dont want to play the sport you love for most of the year, dont!But please dont ruin it for the kids and parents who enjoy the sport all year round.

Keep the summer season. It is a time to take risks and experiment. Dare I bring up the old "more than one div 1 team from a club should be able to play in the same comp"

The summer season would be a great oppertunity to finaly test why this would be so good, or so bad for our sport.

Reply #110433 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon 110351 and Michele,

You guys have found out how to develop the best and most players in SA, well done. I suggest that you avoid burning out your own kids by not letting them play in the summer season. Then when everybody else burns out, you kids will keep improving to become the best players. Hope that you enjoy your summer off, and that you can prove us wrong. ( please note heavy sarcasm)

Either that or go and play social basketball for half the year. Because district basketball is for elite players with commitment who love the game and want nothing more than to be able to play each week so that they can improve.

Reply #110445 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Oh and 110351,

I know that not nominating teams isn't the answer. Becasue all the kids that want a game unlike you and your kid, will move clubs to play and therefore you kid wont have a team to play in when they choose to play.

Reply #110447 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#445
You are everything thats bad about basketball, conceited and unable to look below the height of your nose.

Reply #110468 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #110468

As oppossed to you who are the shinning light of basketball in this country. BY way of complaining anonomously on a forum.

PS when you are going to agree with youself, don't post in the same style. (ie post #409 agreeing with post #340) It makes your argument fragile.

And please, prove me wrong. That is all I am saying. If not playing summer season is better for players. Don't make your child play and make the massive improvments that you are claiming, and convice all those others who don't want to play summer to do the same. Then the adminiostrators will be forced to reasses their current policy.

BUt when your kid doesn't keep up or your club doesn't have any competitive teams don't come crying.

For too long this state has had basketball dragged down to the lowest common denominator by people and clubs who don't want to do anything other than be social clubs. Problem is that they don't understand that they are in the premier competition in SA. Rather than trying to decrease the level of competition, why not go and play in a compeittion that suits your commitment and goals like church basketball or social basketball.

The gap of level of ability is the greatest most people have seen in the last 20 years and is only getting bigger.

We can try and make the better clubs worse or the worse clubs better. Think about which you are trying to do.

Reply #110476 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The gap of ability between ?

Reply #110542 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

That is so funny - anonymous having a go at anonymous for posting as anonymous. must be the drugs.

Reply #110547 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#476
Wrong again about the posts!
And aren't we both posting anon.
I'm interested in every answer people give about why scrap or why not scrap keep silly season because I am not sure what's best for kids but you seem to hold an offensive single mindedness and need to belittle whilst offering very little in the way of intelligent comment.
Read Orlando's reply on how to contribute and disagree without
denigrating others views.

Reply #110549 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ok it is not the drugs - it is just the silly season....

Reply #110552 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

As a parent of a district basketball player I don't have a problem with the Summer season as a whole but it is treated as a Silly Season by my club and I do wonder about it's worth.

Doing individuals with the coaches I think would be far better for the players development.

I keep reading that district is for the elite players, but some clubs have 60 plus players in a specific age and gender group. I don't think this is just the elite player.

I thought SAIS was for the elite not the clubs.

Reply #110558 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Seriously, I have never noticed any drop in intensity in summer. Players who commit to the districts comp generally are fairly hooked on basketball as their sport and the competitive streak doesn't vanish cause the temp gauge rises. So let's drop the silly season tag and give it some respect. And let's be honest - this is rarely a grading season - coaches pick the team that will do best in the respective div. Yes there will always be the few on the fringe who could / should play a higher div, but that just goes to prove even further that it ain't no silly season. It is well planned and mapped out.

Reply #110560 | Report this post


Stand By  
Years ago

Coming in late on this so excuse if it's already been talked about. What about keeping the 'silly season' but shortening it a bit and try new things with it. Wouldn't shortening it be a compromise between the 'more ball is better for development' and 'we're burning out kids' camps?

Reply #110563 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

the 'silly' season is already a shortened version of winter. Just stop using the name and we will all be taken far more seriously.

Reply #110564 | Report this post


Michelle  
Years ago

"(#110558)
I keep reading that district is for the elite players, but some clubs have 60 plus players in a specific age and gender group. I don't think this is just the elite player.

I thought SAIS was for the elite not the clubs. "

That statement is one of the most realistic ones I've read regarding district basketball and understanding that might go some way to moving forward for the sake of the game.

Social comps are not always the answer as some people do like a club environment which you don't get by nominating a team at your local rec centre.
Church basketball I don't have a clue about.

Expense, all that training, all the travelling by all means for those who are exceptional but for everyone else.... come on give us a break!
Either make club basketball expectations more family friendly or risk cutting off your nose to spite yourself in the name of "eliteness".

Reply #110566 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Michelle,

Some club are already moving towards having an elite and social club built in 1.

The City South compeittion is exactly that. These players are still members of Forestville and Sturt but play in a low cost abd low travel competition.

Hopefully BSA will regonalise the lower divisions so that this can happen for all clubs.

That way, elite level players (my thinking is div 1, 2 and 3) can continue to play to improve while Div 4 and below can play in a regionalised competition.

This will give those people who don't want to make the full commitment somewhere to play.

Reply #110620 | Report this post


Magpie  
Years ago

(#110620) Finally, someone who values City South.

It is a fantastic comp for kids that do not want to be bothered with the input needed with a district team; however they are still giving themselves a chance at district later if they get the bug again.

Reply #110679 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

What happens though if they dont wnat to play on a Sunday? If they are not good enough for Div 1 2 & 3 - but they want to play district because of better refs, organisation etc.will this regionalised competition for the lower divisions still be professionally organised and give the kids the opportunity to play against many other teams, not just the same ones week in week out. There are still alot of kids in lower divisions that would prefer to play district - what will happen to them

Reply #110713 | Report this post


Doh!  
Years ago

I feel that the reason for moving to an elite competition - eg Div 1, 2 & 3, only is because there are no Coaches to coach these lower division teams? Why dont clubs start paying Coaches to coach these lower divisions. I am sure that most Refs referee for the money but given a choice I am sure they would rather coach a team if they were to get paid the same amount perhaps they could do both - if clubs had one mass training for the lower divisions and then pay for people to go and Coach teams that do not have coaches say $15-20 a game. Offer parents one kid free fees if they Coach a District team. Obviously fees will have to be incresed to cover the cost but the alternative to have only Div 1 2 and 3 and then regional b/ball for the rest is not an ideal situation for B/ball and the development of it in SA. I am sure there will be some that disagree with me - but think about the kids playing in these lower divisions that want to play District and not CIty South as the alternative - if you have a valid reason as to why the above wont work I would appreciate your feed back.

Reply #110783 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

DOh,
Your idea has merits however the problem is that why should the better players cover the costs of paying lower division coaches? Also why should Div 1 / 2 coaches who would have far more qualifications and experience not get paid and lower division coaches get paid?

Most clubs do subsidise the fees for kids of parents who coach and players who coach.

I agree with what you are saying. I think the domestic competitions have to be well run. I think we need to move to div 1/2/3/domestic competitions. Pay the Div 1 / 2/ 3 coaches from the money the domestic competitions generate. We dont have very good junior coaches in this state at the moment. Maybe if we pay them then more quality junior coaches will stay/get into coaching.

Reply #110807 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon
Expand City South to City North, East and West
Play it on both Saturday and Sunday afternoons.
Each Club then hold Skill Sessions for any one in these comps who wants to attend on a user pays basis.Pay the Coaches for these sessions, attract the good coaches.
Lower div kids get the oportunity without all the pain and cost

Reply #110808 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Or they can just play the game and not worry about the trainings

Reply #110809 | Report this post


Axeman  
Years ago

#110713, you suggest that there are kids out there that are not playing social or church, are not playing Div 1,2 or 3 and don't want to play Sunday?

May I suggest that these kids just don't want to play Bball! I cant imagine a kid not playing because of the standard of reffing.

The fact is that you cant please all of the people all of the time.

For those that detest summer season, why are you playing if you don't like it?

If the answer is to keep up with Johnny or Sally, then the argument against the summer comp is a dud.

The reason most choose to play all year is because they want to improve.

The last time I checked, no club "forces" you to improve.

The fact is that if you don't play summer, you will probably play a lower grade (in most cases) for the winter season.

This could not be the clubs or BSA's fault. It would be your own choice.

Freedom of choice; use it or lose it, but don't impose your lack of dedication on others who want to be the best they can.

Reply #110813 | Report this post


Doh  
Years ago

#110807 - Look at it another way - Clubs are not offering the same service to the lower divisions as they are offering to the higher divisions. Elite/more experienced coaches do not want to coach the lower divisions - Div 1 & 2 are getting a better standard of coaching and trainings - and lower divisions are paying the same fees - higher divisions would not be propping up the lower divisions they would just be getting what they pay for eg better coaching and trainings. As it stands at the moment there are still a lot of lower division teams that do not have coaches. And parents/players are paying the same amount as the higher Divisions -I dont think this is an equitable situation and not getting great trainings in some cases as well. And if higher division coaches want to be paid perhaps that should be looked at as well.
#110808 - I do agree with your ideas as a long term prospect, but the problem is that the lower division kids want to play district as it stands today - I think at first there would be a lot of upset parents and kids if this was the way that B/Ball for lower divs is heading. There would need to be a lot of promotion around this concept to sell it to the kids and parents.

Reply #110831 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hi Axeman.
I appreciate what you are saying however,IMO its not that simple.
Kids would play 60 weeks a year if they could so its not the players saying too much basketball-its parents.
Parents are often coaches, always bench admin, drivers etc etc.
Many parents accept basketball is run continuously and cope because of good support networks etc.
Most parents support the many and various carnivals because its the thing to do.
Many families only need to have one parent working which frees the other for lots of things.
All of the above is true.
Some parents feel the basketball seasons are too long.
Some families feel the pressure of both parents working and struggle to
fulfil the basketball commitments.
Some parents genuinely believe the kids play too much and that basketball expectations in particular are excessive.
Many believe burnout is a real possibility.
All of this is equally true.
My personal view is somewhere in between as Ive said before. I would be happier with a 26 to 30 week tour of duty that allowed a longer break for everyone.
I support SASI kids doing a full year and individuls. I support any child doing additional off season work be that individuls or club based training.
How is that different, well it allows most of those involved to get a rest and encourages those wishing to improve their skills to do so without impacting on the majority.
I believe burnout becomes a factor later around the U16 up because of the intensity of selection options.
Under the present system no one who wants to succeed in BBAll could not play summer. It is not an option for many reasons, most well understood.

Netball players train once a week . Basketball players train twice a week. Netball carnivals a few and far between compared with basketball all of which indicates the load on juniors in a comparative but not equal sport. ( I acknowledge the superior aerobic fitness levels of most BBallers). I have used Netball here to illustrate how a successful international sport builds its juniors and how basketball does much more work on and off court generally as well as plays and trains continuously.
To grow basketball, a game I love, we need to work together to find a balance bewteen burn out and success, between parents needs and player needs, between clubs and clubs and most importantly be mature enough to discuss all the issues without apportioning blame or ridicule on each other.
More people will play our game if parents encourage it and support it so lets find a balance that does not impact negatively on any of the stake holders.

Reply #110838 | Report this post


Axeman  
Years ago

(#110838) I cant dissagree with you entirly. Burn out is a factor, but then again the drop off rate in soccer, for example,is just as high. (I base this on an interview with some joe from soccer australia on 5AA some time after the world cup in regards to on 16-18y.olds)Cornsey, Im waiting to be told Im wrong!

The fact is that as kids get older, there priorities change. Boy freinds, girlfreinds, jobs, cars, social lifes, school, all start to take a higher value than sport.

It is the kids that are single mindedly driven to achieve the best they can be that go on to play at a higher level. The only way to do this is to play against the best players as much as you can.

For the other kids that dont want to take it to this level, there are other Bball comps that will achieve what they want out of the sport.

The fact is that most of the kids you started playing with in under 10's will probably not be there in U20's. I played footy from 12 years old but droped out after 1 year of seniors because my job came before training.

Could we add 2 or 3 more weeks in between the summer break? Yeah it wouldnt hurt. But to greatly reduce the summer season as it stands, or scrap it altogether would be, IMO, a backward step for our game in this state.

Reply #110863 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(#110838) I agree with you comment. It is the parents that also need the break. Use SASI for the so called elite kids that what to go all year round.
It is also interesting your comment about negative feed back by parents.
At a recent xmas function one of the people at the table new that I had a child playing basketball and with a great smile told me that one of his sons had just been except into a Div 1 team at district level. My comment back to him was that he may as well sell his shack because he want be using it for a while. (Sunday training, Friday night games and long weekend carnivals)

Reply #110890 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #110890

Anybody that considers Netabll to be a successful international sport is kidding themselves.

The 2 best nations in the World are Australias and New Zearland. Followed by daylight.

And it is only played in about another 10 commonwealth countries.

Basketball is the second most played sport in the world and played in the 2nd most countries.

No comparison.

If you want your kid to play netball, go and play. Either way chances are they won't make it too the eloite level. If your kid wants to be an Olympian then consider yourself lucky that other people with some understanding know full well that they need to be playing a summer season.

Reply #110897 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

110890,

KG & Cornesie were interviewing Neil Craig on their show. Somewhat ignorantly they asked a serious question to Neil (who used to be an the AIS cycling coach) - how does the fitness and dedication of AFL footballers compare to Cyclists at the AIS. Craigie broke out in laughter at this stupid question. His answer was something like this. Quote: you are talking about elite/international class athletes vs sports people playing a local country sport, in short the dedication and fitness of our footballers don't compare to the cyclists. You cant compare basketball to AFL, Cricket, Netball etc. You are talking about a truly global sport. With far more money internationally generated by and invested into athletes than all these sports put together.

Think about it when you compare basketball to Netball or Aussie Rules or Cricket (a predominantly 3rd world sport).

Reply #110918 | Report this post


Axeman  
Years ago

Gee, I hope our facts are right in regards to Cornsey otherwise he will get on here and tell us so.

Reply #110922 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#897
More females play netball in Australia than both males and females play basketball. No comparision is right. So lets get more into basketball.

Reply #110945 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(#110918)
We are talking about stopping the "silly season" (summer district comp) for normal basketball players. This so called elite can still do SASI, AIS or individuals with expert coaching, isn't this what they are for. IMO District B/Ball should be an avenue for player development and grooming for senior B/Ball not about World Champs and Olympic Games as this is the elite player stage.

Reply #110946 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#918
I think you can compare all sports aerobically.
I also think the aerobic abilities of AFL mid fielders would compare with elite cyclists with the only difference being you may not find performance enhancing traces in the samples from the footballers(Humour).
I am sure you would appreciate that atheletes are only fit for the sport they play because different muscles are in play, although Netball Footy and Basketball(thus their inclusion) incorporate a lot of crossover skills, many sports like cycling are sport specific.
I think you are far from the mark with AFl players and their fitness not being as good as basketballers.
Beep tests are posted for most sports as standard levels of base acceptability and all elite atheletes who have a key aerobic component to their sport do well in this test.
Off hand I'd say Chris Judd may be aerobically fitter than Brett Maher and both are supremely fit atheletes when not injured.
If you don't think netball is a
successful international sport because only the same number of countries play it as cricket you probably don't get out much.
Netball has a wider player base than basketball in Australia and how big Basketball is internationally is no portent of success in Australia as the world's most popular game, soccer, has yet to fire here.
Unhelpful statements like 'if you want your kid to play netball' etc miss the intent of the post and reflect the bias that keeps our sport poor. That bias is, a she'll be right mate', basketball rocks and %%&& anybody who wants to have an opinion that's different to mine.
I want my kids to play basketball.
I want my kids to be safe playing it.
I want a proactive BSA.
I would like to have a life in basketball that did not consume almost the entire year.
And more importantly, I'd like to be able to discuss controversial and non controversial issues with basketball lovers who are prepared to listen and offer constructive comment and an informed critic.
Many of the posters don't agree
with my stance and have given reasons why we should keep summer and thats how we go forward.
You can yell loudly and say nothing or offer solutions and others can determine where your comments fall.

Reply #110969 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(#110620) (#110838) (#110969)
and there are more....

Your open minded and sensible posts have been a breath of fresh air. To read posts that are not sarcastic and pointed have made me want to do make sure that i do so in the same vain in future. It's so easy to get all titchy when a comment gets your back up.

My child years ago at around 10 had to choose between district basketball and football/cricket because of the bball Sunday training clashing with the grass sports. We have done the social bball circuit, having had the same great little team for years but there comes a time especially when you move into other club sports that you value the club experience and look for something beyond social. Wanting to play in a club is not always about wanting to be an elite player.

It is true you can't keep everyone happy all of the time but it would be nice if there was a less demanding (Sat game/Sund training) basketball club experience to try and reach all those kids who have to make a choice.

For those who only live and breathe bball parents and players alike I say good on you and I hope you do achieve what all your hard work etc is aiming for. Just don't think that the rest of us who are spread out over multitple sports don't deserve a BSA effort also.

PS
Names on posts help even if they are made up ones

Reply #111187 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Again,

If you don't want to play summer seaso, don't play! It is that easy.

If you want to play in a competition that trains during the week and plays Sunday afternoons. Play City South, or social.

And District Div 1 is the breeding ground for Elite level players, whether some individualks and clubs like it or not.

In U14's 4 teams play in a National Championship.

At U16 and U18 level 40 players from each age group play at a National Championsip. And some 200+ try out for these teams each year.

Without the summer comeptition these players will not be able to suceed.

If you don't wan to play summer season, don't. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Reply #111198 | Report this post


Vadersmate  
Years ago

#111198, Here, here. Cant remember the last time I saw a coach holding a gun to a parents head demanding Johnny or Sally play the summer season.

The needs of the many outway the wants of a few.

Reply #111350 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#190 and Vaderville
Try to understand the points made rather than reply with cliches .
What research do u have to back up playing all year round improves play.
There is research under 'burn out in sport' if you google it and take the time to read it.
What facts do you base your assertions that we could not compete in the Nats, state etc if we cut silly season?
Saying we need to play again and again without some logical reasons just make your statements shallow. I accept you believe we need to play but
you need to accept a lot dont want that and more people may play if the seasons were delineated.
More kids may stay with the sport.
More parents may encourage their kids to play and support them.
Some kids may actually improve playing less and trying other sports.

Reply #111625 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

>re: Lets Scrap Silly Season-Now! (#110918)
You cant compare basketball to AFL, Cricket, Netball etc. You are talking about a truly global sport.
Think about it when you compare basketball to Netball or Aussie Rules or Cricket (a predominantly 3rd world sport). >

Was that an Ashes win for the Asussies today?
Yah!!! even if it is a third world sport

Reply #111637 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#918 was having a blonde moment or maybe really believes basketball is the world's elitist sport .

Reply #111660 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Look, lets not grow basketball at all ok!
Lets ignore all the parents who think the season is too long as parents are useless and don't count.
Let's remember how strong basketball is in SA and how prudent and visionary BASA was!
Let's not even consider silly season is irrelevant in case something good comes out of debating the future of our sport.
Let's ridicule anyone who doesn't want to play 52 weeks a year!
Let's not consider any possibilities and under no circumstances be proactive.
Let's follow Vic and Qld and all the other states and never dare to lead.
Let's stay exactly as we are as thats good enough! Opps-strike that, because that's exactly what we're doing.

Reply #111663 | Report this post


Vader  
Years ago

Under the current program Sturt have grown from 32 teams in 1997 to 61 teams on 2007.

If a majority of parents truly didn't want to play the summer season, then we wouldn't have one.

SA basketball has won numerous NBL and WNBL Championships as well as medals at National junior championships. PLus we have 6 out of 24 AIS scholarship holders.

Lets not consider people who think that this forum in any way shape or form will be involved in deeloping the future when these "parents" aren't going to their clubs and asking for a cut in the summer season.

We don't play 52 weeks in the year. Most clubs have at least 6 weeks of now, some 4. Plus we had at least 2 weeks of in October. So that is a blantant lie.

I think that you will find that in the future basketball will improve it's competition structure to better meet it's needs. It just probably wont be to your simple minded needws. But rater for the over all good of the sport.

Our competition strucure is nothing like that from Vic or NSW. Get your facts straight. Both have domestic competitions, we do not. Our competition length is due to this fact.

If you don't want yor kid to play, then dont. It is that simple. nobody is making you and if you truly think your child would be a better player they why would youeven let then play summer?


Reply #111695 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Vader, yes Sturt are strong. But many other clubs are struggling.
Very wrong about if the majority of parents wanted silly season dumped we wouldnt have one because all parents usually put their kids first.So if the Kids love basketball most parents suffer in silence but jump for joy (exaggeration) when sam or sarah decide to play whatever and don't try very hard to keep them in basketball.
NBL and WNBl are not based exclusively on local product and players come from all over to fill the teams so I wouldnt use that as an example of SA basketball going forward.
I have spoken to my club about dumping silly season.
52 weeks was blatant exaggeration to illustrate a point that we play too much- so settle down.
If basketball improves its competition structure my simple mind will be pleased, Im not trying to score points.
Nothing like Vic's comp- So right on many levels and so wrong on the basics. We don't grade thats the difference and we dont grade because we dont have the numbers of teams or players to warrant it.
Support silly season by all means but get out of the gutter and debate after all you need to consider the fact that you may be wrong.
It amazes me that critics of the scrap silly season always think proponents have a personal agenda on silly's destruction.
I happen to believe we would have a better comp without silly season but its continuation has no impact on my personal situation whatsoever (This is called an intellectual discussion in which the common good is sought), consequently references to my child quitting
are both childish and way off the mark.
Vader, one part gin , 2 parts tonic and a good lie down are prescribed.

Reply #111730 | Report this post


Vader  
Years ago

If enough people did not support the summer season then it would not go ahead.

It is not called quitting, it is called making a decision over when your child plays and doesn't play.

And what exactly did your club sya regarding not playing the summer season?

Reply #111737 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #111730
Pehaps rather than getting rid of the silly season, we should ask what is Sturt doing that has increased it's size so much. Perhaps the clubs are more concerned with ABA teams than juniors team(hence the need for more income from the summer season fee's), whereas Sturt seem to be the opposite. Basketball isn't strugling. More so some clubs are not doing the necessary work to recruit new kids into the sport.

Reply #111742 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Vader , many don't support it but their kids love the sport and want to play as much as they can, so the parent's go along with it.
Some believe the kids would benefit from the break-others not.
Certainly I believe more kids would play basketball if we had a longer winter, from say mid feb ending early november as an example. Then a solid player and family break.
How this would impact on elite athletes, SASI etc Im not sure but as as the state 16, 18's start selections around this time I guess not much given the elite and trying to be elite would be ball skilling, 100 baskets a day and individuals anyway.
I strongly believe we don't get a lot of players because of our longer playing schedule and drop offs occur from those playing. Staleness is as much a factor as burnout and are real
factors.
I spoke to my club providing many of the things already said on this thread as my reasons for scrapping the summer games.
I never proposed scrapping summer from a personal 'my kids are doing too much' position but from what I hear and believe to be issues within some of the wider basketball community.
Every year Norwood's easter carnival causes untold families issues and is widely believed to be one of the worst situated carnivals of the year-Easter.
Parents support their kids but they hate the intrusion into a special and family time not to mention religious issues. That it is sanctioned and continues and players are expected to play it highlights the insensitivity driving basketball and why I think changes need to be made.
I started this thread to give voice to the many who say lots privately but tacitly accept and privately criticise the current directions.
I think we need to examine all avenues and consider all criticisms and continue to do so if we want a continuing strong junior program.
a decade ago every one in school played basketball at lunch and at breaks. Take a walk around and see whats happening now- ask kids what sports hot?
Norwoods record 50 something teams and sturts equally impressive numbers mask a wider problem and the term 'district' is applied loosely to many of the teams. More kids playing than yes but for how long.

Reply #111743 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I have read all the posts on this thread and the plenty of others on this topic.

It's the structure of the competition in Adelaide that is the problem not the fact we have two seasons. The Summer Season, City of Adelaide Competition, Metro League or whatever it's called is currently considered a silly season because it serves no purpose other then getting kids on the court.

That is very frustrating for everyone; supporters of a full year as well as those against. IMO once the new BSA/BA Managements apply some purpose and structure to all levels of competition then the moajority of people posting in threads such as this one will be satisfied.

At the end of the day while this has proven rather interesting and I must say a little entertaining it really won't change anything.

To those that truly want the Summer Season scraped you're going to be very disappointed as it never will be; although it will be different in the years to come.

To those who support the playing of basketball all year round there's no reason to antagonise supporters of such radical change. Why waste your time arguing on a internet forum over something which will never happen?

Reply #111744 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #11743 Your main grip seem to be that basketball is not developing nor increasing. This is false. Becasue some clubs have been able to increase their size. While other have not. My point is that, this is due to clubs not trying to develop the sport rather than the competition format. If clubs like Forestville, Sturt and Norwood can increase their size. Why can't all clubs. Again, it is not due to the competition otherwise all clubs would be decreasing in size. But rather it is due to some clubs not putting the resources and effort into juniors. And Easter is in the exact same boat as summer season. If you don't want to play in it don't. Nobody can be force to play when they don't want too.

PS: What didi your club say when you ask for them to not play in the summer season.

Reply #111746 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#746,

You seem to think that having more teams is a sign of success. It might be success if that is the measurable for that club but I am aware of other clubs that the number of teams, within reason, is not important. One club has said they will provide teams should people who started with the club wish to continue but they will not actively go out and seek out new numbers simply to increase team numbers, particularly in the U16 onwards age group.

So I ask, why do clubs have to go out and actively increase their number of teams competing if the quality is not there!!

Reply #111760 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Any increase in the number of kids playing sport and basketball in particular is a good thing. The sooner that more clubs increase their size to the point where they are able to have their own association competitions the better IMO. Then we will be able to have a district comeptition for the elite that serves it's true purpose. And, a competition for other players that want a lower cost and less commitment.

And surely if you are claiming that the summer season is a reason for the sport losing kids. This means that a decrease in the number of kid playing is a bad thing, to which we would all agree. But then if you turn around and say that an increase in the number of kids is also not necessarily a good thing you are merely playing devils advocate and are not really interested in the good of the game but rather pushing your own opinion on "what is best for my kids".

Reply #111769 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I guess it comes down to what you think district level is when you talk numbers. Div 1 is the elite base line. Div 2 is the feeder group aspiring to div 1. Below this the other divisions are significantly below a true national district level.
There are some exceptions with regards numbers with some clubs rich in talent and unable to fully utilise it. In these stronger clubs players will drop off/quit as opportunities to play div 1 are not realised.
That is, a sturt, could in several divisions field 2 div 1's but cant because of other clubs self interest that in the long term will harm basketball.
Norwood on the other hand is rich in numbers but not blessed with quality and you could go thru each club with strong numbers and question if its not time to split district into district and sub district.
But all thats another story.
More kids in basketball is the goal-appropriately placed, appropriately coached and appropriately graded.
Sturt and F'ville run a sub district comp that should be embraced by all the clubs.
So we need the structure right to use the extra players we may get from any reforms appropriately. Im not really the devils advocate, more the devil.

Reply #111813 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So what has any of that got to do with the summer season? Especially considering City South runs all year round as does mini-ball, church and social basketball.

Funny how peoples agenda's get in the way of what is best for basketball in this state.

Reply #111820 | Report this post


Vadersmate  
Years ago

Why do parents let their kids play summer season if they are so against it?

The answer obviously lays here; (#111743) You say you only put up with it because your children love it. There is your reason to support the summer season right there.

Your kids love it so you grugingly support it. No one for an instant is telling you to love it or be enthused about it, but you take your kids every week because you support them.

To say B/ball in SA would be better off by playing less just does make sense.

As has been said before in this thread; if you dont want to be the best, you dont have too; its totaly your choice.

Let the kids who want to play at the highest level, play.

(#111625)sorry if I have used any cliches anonsville.





Reply #111826 | Report this post


Vadersmate  
Years ago

Of course, "To say B/ball in SA would be better off by playing less just DOSNT make sense."

Reply #111833 | Report this post


Michelle  
Years ago

Nothing to do with silly season debate but how about a club/bsa competition that replaced/enhanced/incorporated the social/domestic competitions run in local rec centres?

Club teams that cater for the social player just as you have in cricket.............the SACA (cricket)involves clubs that are either "district or social" and runs competitons accordingly.
eg:
http://www.nejca.bigpondhosting.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page1.html

It can be done, basketball decision makers may need to ask and look to what works well elsewhere. Shouldn't BSA be trying to look after all basketball players needs?

Isn't the game worthy of that?

I'm sure that many people know that a lot of the social comps are a bit of a dogs breckfast and clubs should/could have a role in grass roots development.

Reply #111849 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Michelle,

Come and play City South. It has better ref's than social and less commmtiment than district.

Reply #111871 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

And it's also the most disorganised and unrewarding competition ever created!

Reply #111875 | Report this post


Vadersmate  
Years ago

(#111875) And unless more clubs that are complaining about Sturt & f/ville having to many kids to handle, join the damn thing, we will still be reading this type of post on Hoops SA in 5 years time.

City south is a good comp for kids that do not want the hassle of full time district. My son was lost to district for any number of reasons that have been posted above. After 2 years of city south he regained his passion for the game and is now back playing district.

It would seem that the answer to most of the problems people are spruking up on this thread actually lies with sturt & F/ville and the city south comp. Its a no hassle no train if you dont want to comp, that you dont have to play all year if you dont want.

It seems petty club politics and bias is the only thing that holds the comp back from being the type of comp that people seem to wish for.

District is to much commitment, yet social is not enough commitment. try it, It works.

Reply #111905 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

There's a difference between supporting the concept and supporting the City South Competition.

IMO the concept of a second tier competition is long overdue and should be brought in across Adelaide.

On the other hand my experience of the City South competition specifically has not been a good one. New programs weekly, no shows by coaches, no shows by opposition teams the list goes on.

Reply #111909 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

IMO 111909, its a catch 22.

A concept like City South requires everyone to support it. You say its not working but the same people saying its not working appear to part of the problem. IE its not working so we will pull out or coach doesnt show but Im not going to put my hand up to coach.

I think the biggest problem is that its seen as an association run by District clubs that THEY want to see succeed. The participants dont feel like they have ownership and its all on the clubs to ensure the smooth running.

Reply #111919 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The City South competition is run by two clubs for the benifit of those two clubs and its members in some ways at the detriment of the old BASA system.

IMO part of the problem is that the concept was devised by a select few at the two clubs and then forced onto a lot of people whom don't want to be a part of it. I also question the forsight of the structure and feel it was a rushed effort to get something going without first structuring the competition properly. I guess the benifits are definately there for some, but for others it's a waste of time and a loss of a valuable training session.

As I said previously I support the concept and once a second tier competition is set up by BasketballSA for the whole of Adelaide I have no doubt that it will work for the benifit of all. IMO though the City South competition specifically is too mismanaged to be touted as the answer.

Reply #111935 | Report this post


Orlando Smith  
Years ago

Anon,
please explain
"As I said previously I support the concept and once a second tier competition is set up by BasketballSA for the whole of Adelaide I have no doubt that it will work for the benifit of all. IMO though the City South competition specifically is too mismanaged to be touted as the answer. "

how can we give any weight to what you have said when you have also said...

"Not necesarrily, some of these players move into social competition, senior comps and just become coaches, ref's and sometimes fans."

and

"That is so funny - anonymous having a go at anonymous for posting as anonymous. must be the drugs."

and

"Look, lets not grow basketball at all ok!
Lets ignore all the parents who think the season is too long as parents are useless and don't count.
Let's remember how strong basketball is in SA and how prudent and visionary BASA was!"

I dont really care if you post as anonymous but please try to avoid reference to a past post or term like "As I said previously" there are many knuckleheads popsting as anonymous I am sure you wouldn't want your ideas lumped in with the gibberish and gobbley-gook posted

Anonymous posters you are all cut (and fired)
Tubby

Reply #111950 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The problem with domestic comps is there is no accountability. You don't have to train, and if you don't play it is not the end of the world. The concept is a good one but as soon as you give people an opportunity to take a 'casual' approach, such as not a firm commitement, it will cause many problems for the organisors.

Reply #111955 | Report this post


Michelle  
Years ago

I am not actually suggesting that training is not necessary, I know that it is and would not expect to not have to. At different times in out life we have different needs. I swim 3-5 times a week because at present that is better suited to my family commitments. Maybe when I have more time I can actually think about doing some meets. There are kids who want to continue playing Sunday club cricket/football, they can't join a district basketball club because of Sunday bball training. Perhaps there are future options that could be considered?

Commitment comes in various shapes, some are committted to a basketball only lifestyle, others are committed to a multi sport experience. Whatever your choice is it is as valuable as the next persons.

Reply #111974 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So Michelle,

When would you prefer to train and play basketball then if not on Sunday morning with games on Friday and Saturdays. We can try and get the other 3000+ families to change their current schedule to suit yours perhaps

Reply #112118 | Report this post


3  
Years ago

Despite it being called the 'silly season', most people still give 100% and don't slack off. The potential for burnout is quite high. Sunday morning practices in 38 degree heat are pretty common in January and February. The summer season is a good test to see who is commited and who isn't. There isn't much break between seasons though, especially if you play finals. It can be quite draining afters years of doing it in juniors.

Reply #112129 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think the silly season is a must.

If only to keep referees busy for a long period of time so we don't have to deal with all their random threads and comments on this forum.

Matt Ryan, Bully, Brett Johns and Co. ... GO AWAY!!

Reply #112239 | Report this post


Michelle  
Years ago

(#112118)

Not suggesting at all that your 3000 families change, sorry i haven't made myself clear. There are a lot of kids who would play in some kind of club basketball program (but not the same structure that you play in) who would train during the week and then play in a Saturday comp which means they can keep on with their other Sunday sport. Please don't take what I'm saying as if I think "you all" should change because I definately don't think that way, I'm suggesting a 2nd tier competition that somehow involved clubs.

I am involved in other club sports so and do know for sure that there are a lot of kids who would play club basektball as well if they could fit it in with their Sunday sport.

Just to highlight again in case I'm not saying it loud or clear enough
I DON'T THINK THE CURRENT DISTRICT BBALL SET UP SHOULD CHANGE - just suggesting there is scope for an additional comp. for kids with other needs.

Don't take suggestions as a personal attack just take them for what they are - suggestions to give a wonderful game more options.

It's the game I'm talking about not you personally.

Merry christmas, apologies too for bringing up a view point which was really not what this thread was about. I'm finished with this one.

Reply #112295 | Report this post


FM  
Years ago

In Darwin, season ends before Xmas. Starts again in February.

We lose so many kids to the AFL and League during this 6 week break. When the other sports seasons finished, basketball is only part way thru, so the kids don't start then either.

By the time championship season starts in July, the kids have already started playing Soccer, Hockey, Touch and Union..

Hopefully we will start to change our seasons around to match South Australias and Victorias so we at least have a chance.

Reply #112306 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

http://www.ttgdcc.org.au/news.html

go to the link above, basketball is popoular with the "other sport" kids, the autograph signing and cap giveaway went down very well. He apparently liked his game of cricket too as a junior.

Reply #112309 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

FM, if you lose kids to other sports because of 6 week break I'd say there's a lot more wrong with your structure than the 6 weeks off.

Reply #112321 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ahh summer long, hot summer days of golden heat. Maybe there's a message in the fact that we have cancelled (correctly) several games this silly season because of extreme heat and on that basis alone its time to wave a fond farewell to this inane time.

Reply #120289 | Report this post




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