Atleast we know how to spell, HERE.

123abc

notice my name doesn't have any capitals

:stick out tounge:

How Much Can A Koala Bare?

We've been 36ers fans for a long time and have'nt missed a game in 7 years. The lethargy shown by the players is something we have'nt seen in all the years. Something is very wrong somewhere!! We drive 45 minutes to see a game. If our team worked as hard as The Dragons and showed as much energy we would have enjoyed our ride home even with a loss!

I agree with anon on his first post, if your going to support them then suport them when they are down aswell as when they are going strong. You would all be loving the team if we were winning, but the second we have a bad run you bag everyone and everything involved with them. The fact is Smyth has won 3 NBL championships, noone on here has even come close, when you have succeded as much as he has then you can give him shit, until then you dont have anywhere near as much knowledge as him. So shutup your bagging if you dont like it stop going to games. The world and sport would be a better place without the whining few that post on here.

Sorry  forgot to add my user name.

The main thing that gives me the shits about this site ATM (used to be good) and in particular at the games is supporters who spend the whole game and then coming on here and then bagging their own team.

FFS  honest constructive criticism is fine but idiotic crap that continually gets spread about Phil Smyth should not be tolerated, and 99% of the crappolla on hear is just from the idiots who argue with the umpire after every foul or travel they commit.

Would you accept a new job with your employment if you heard rumbling that the new employer was in receivership? Why would any prospective basketball that had option of going somewhere stable do the same.


The last 2 or 3 year have been an unstable time for the 36ers organization but now we are on steady waters, judge Phil Smyth's recruiting on who he recruits for next season as apposed to last season where the ship was very rocky.

Sorry to labour the point but its hard to take the opinion of someone seriously when they can't get simple spelling or grammer right.

I don't want perfection but hear/here aint complicated.

Call me a smart arse/pedantic/a wanker - whatever. It still sticks - if you want to be taken seriously or if you want people to read your post,start withthe basics.

"idiotic crap that continually gets spread about Phil Smyth should not be tolerated"

What idiotic crap?? All the people that bag Smyth always have specific valid points from games, pin pointing why he is incompetent as a coach at the moment and why we need to replace him. If you believe what we specifically say about him is wrong please say why, we would love to hear it. BUT you can't so therefore you look like the idiot because your only argument sounds like someone that has no knowledge of the game which is the analogy that he has been successful in the past so we shouldn't criticize him.

How about YOU give some constructive criticism on why you feel he has done such a good job this year and why he should be coach next year? Instead of just chucking a general comment out that none of us know what we are talking about and that because he has won 3 championships in the past it means he is still a brilliant coach in your book.

Your labeling of us (Smyth haters) being bandwagon supporters is also incorrect and you obviously haven't been reading correctly. We would all be happy to have the same record if not worse IF the team came out and played with pride, passion and put in 100% every night. You can argue this as much as you like but I believe that is mainly the coach's fault. If a couple of the players where like that then it would be these players fault but since the whole team is usually like this it filters down to the coach.

Also how does 3 past championships excuse him for missing out on getting either Newley or Ingles, his inability to scout teams, his inability to make decent subs, his inability to motivate players, and his ability to take quite a talented team to close to bottom of the ladder?

We all believe Smyth's coaching style was great before when we had the type of team that suited it and the league hadn't yet worked out how to play against our unorthodox style. However, now his style is out dated, he seems lethargic and seems to have no new ideas. Obviously he hasn't evolved as a coach to be successful TODAY! And that is the real issue. We are all greatful of his past success but it is time for a new coach!

Oh shit, here we go again......

before this thread gets out of control, I'll put my 2 cents in.

Sturt is better than Forestville

Everyone bag Centrals.... NOW

Ben Fitz shoots way to much from the car park...

Don't start me on the Seals....OMG......

Anonymous should all be banned...

Cheeze needs to find a new team to support....

Isaac needs to upgrade the Ferrari to an Aston Martin Vanquish S.

Crap like this is getting very boring............

But what the hell is grammer? Isn't the word 'Grammar' with an A.

Since when has 'aint' been an acceptable a word in the English vocabulary? The word is 'Isn't' or 'is not'

I understand that it should have been here not hear either answer the question or continue to answer in your style and perpetuate the myth that this site is just full of fickle fans who are only after one thing, shooting everyone down to look like a big shot knob.

Ok before this goes any further.

This site has a search function. Use it. This exact thread has occurred many a time.

Secondly, no doubt every time a thread like this starts I'm usually one of the main targets.

Go back to old threads on this topic and read my posts, and dare to call me fickle again, (won't write another 1000 word response talking about my volunteering for the club).

If you claim to have no problems with constructive criticism on elementary points of the game that professional coaches should easily implement you will not have a problem with the majority of the site.

It's clear that many on here just don't want to here any contrastive criticism at all. If you are going to do a thread like this, I like to see someone call me out and quote something they think I'm not justified in saying.

KingJames don't be so paranoid as to assume that I labelled everyone who dislikes Phil Smyth a bandwagon fan, if it is constructive criticism then that is fine and acceptable. It's the consent crap that gets talked about just to rubbish his reputation (like he sits there and doesn't care about the Adelaide 36ers or the actual game in Australia and his only after his own agenda like making sure he get his pay packet each week).

Phil Smyth is the best thing to happen to this club and some people need to pull there heads in and show some respect.

2006/07 hasn't been a good year but that doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bath water, we give him an opportunity to rebuild the club and recruit with an acceptable budget and club reputation back in tack.

How is an incompetent coach at the moment? So basically you are saying 5 year ago he cared but now he doesn't? Prove that he doesn't care, just because he doesn't rant and rave and belittle his player doesn't mean he doesn't care about losing.

On one hand we have everyone saying we have a 40 year old side of washed up hacks and now you are saying we have a very talented side and taken them to the bottom of the ladder because he has lose his coaching mojo that is making them lose via motivation?

"the second we have a bad run you bag everyone and everything involved with them" - incorrect. The majority of people put forward valid criticism on very specific points.

If you do not have the ability to argue those specific points, don't expect to get much out of conversing with people who are interested in doing that.

As I've said before, there are two distinct groups of people - fanatics and analysts. Analysts will call fanatics mindless, one-eyed apologists. Fanatics will call analysts fair-weather and fickle. That gets everyone exactly nowhere.

Think about it this way: Does a patriot ever vote against the incumbent?

Double clutch  if you have taken this personally and assume you are being called a fickle supporter, maybe which says more about your sub conscience feelings towards the club than my post.

And Jimmy: "acceptable budget" - we had that this year - it was called the salary cap.

This pre season just gone (from February to May), what player would have accepted a contract knowing it was on tender ground? Especially if they knew they could get a secure contract in a stable environment?

Phil Smyth has now has a bad season and he has to adjust but no one can dismiss his reputation and previous record after one bad season, hence why I labelled some fickle.

I haven't taken this personally, I'm just putting myself out there to argue with you point by point which you never do, instead you just start random threads talking in general terms.

I'm even willing to meet you before the game this Sunday and have a chat if you want.

ExcuseExcuse me?

This is only my third thread I have made in just over 12 months of posting.

Sorry but I am not going to be this NYE game, I have a prior arrangements in place.

What point would you like me to answer that was so random?

Not coming to the game you fickle fan?

I rather talk to you in person, because I don't type as fast or as articulately as I can talk. Plus I'm sick of writing the same old responses to fanatics who don't seem to know too much technically about the game.

I'll bring my coaches board, marker and have a good old chat, see if I can't change your perspective.

Fickle  bit hard when I am in Tassie for my brother wedding but I have no objections' to you calling me fickle.

Would you like me to post my playing, coaching and administrative CV? But as long as I have faith in Smyth running the ship my opinion will not matter as I am just a fanatic who cannot see past his 3 championships. Correct.

Opps - when i will be in Tassie, leaving tommorrow night.

"I'll bring my coaches board, marker and have a good old chat, see if I can't change your perspective"

I sure you will know me.

Well you've have shown no reason to show that you have any other thought process than "ignore everything, the guy whon 3 championships so can't be critised".

Of course that is a sterotype, and you seem to have a pre-conceived notion of the critics understanding of the game, ignoring many quality posts on this forum.

In anycase, this is an invite. Meet me before a game, have a friendly chat by a bar, or choose not to. It's up to you.

A high profile coach?

Someone very close to Phil?

Will you be walking up from the court to talk to me?

Of course he can be criticized but I choice not to.

I have said many times before that I can see not reason to make a change unless we can get someone better and in the current Australian basketball clement we can not afford to import another coach.

Unless you can make a change, I see no reason in whinging and whining about who we have because there is a lot worse out there that could be our coach. Dave Claxton and Don Monson come to mind. Regardless of his faults, I see no reason in making a change until it is dire to change that coaching paradigm

No, No and No as I was being sarcastic, lot a bit in translation. .

Jimmy the critics were talking before this season, before the sale. Youve only just noticed ?

You dont want a change unless someone better sticks their hand up but did you say the same thing before Smyth was signed for his first year ??

This is old ground on this forum. Like I said use the search function for arguments like the one above.

Seeming as I'm not going to now meet you, my curiosity as to who you are has grown exponentially. My identity is not a secret around town and I'm just a low division Under 18 coach. Would be interesting to know who you with some of your comments in this thread.

And just out of politeness, I'm going to bed now, just thought I'd say so you're not waiting for an answer.

Well, put it this way Jimmy, do you know who I am?

151

Kevin Sheedy, Lindsey Gaze, Bobby Knights, Rick Charlesworth and many others have had the writing on the wall and comeback to show they were a great coach. Phil Smyth has to be given an opportunity to rebuild this side and that's the very least we as supporters owe him.

Phil Smyth's pedigree isn't the same as any old chump who put there hand up to be a head coach so the degree of concern wasn't that high.

Michael Voss and James Hird could coach any AFL club they want but it takes someone like Chris Connelly (at Fremantle) a long time to get a gig.

Brett Maher still has aspirations to play and Andrew Gaze wouldn't be interested in doing it.


DC - maybe next game.

DC - No, I do not even know what club. I always assumed it was North Adelaide but I could be wrong.

I was involved at West Adelaide for a few years. ;-)

I am out for now.

KingJames,

The only point I will raise is countering one of yours

"all the people that bag Smyth have valid specific points"

when your arguing against someone making a generalisation, you shouldn't make a generalisation yourself.

I have seen some people when bagging Smyth make some very idiotic, pointless and downright nasty comments.

Jimmy, fair enough making the comparison with Sheedy, etc and saying that Smyth should be given another chance.

What I don't agree with is you implying that Smyth has been limited in his recruiting by the instability with the 36ers program.

There was never any doubt that the 36ers were going to be around for a long time during the sales process. There were numerous 'cashed up' parties looking at buying the 36ers.

As Isaac has said on numerous occasions we have spent the cap.

The reason that Oscar, Jacob, Ingles, Newley are not 36ers has nothing to do with the sale process.

The only free agent that Smyth actively pursued (that he didn't sign) in the off-season was Russell Hinder who chose to play for Goorjian and got a World Championship berth for his efforts. Smyth/36ers were successful with their other targets of Horvath, Copeland, Wheeler and Majstrovic.

How can anyone other than Smyth be blamed for our roster this season? It's not like he had Sam Mackinnon, Ingles and Anstey signed, sealed and delivered and they backed off because of the sale process.

You are correct that Smyth has won 3 championships and as a result is the 36ers most successful coach by far. However, I don't think that I am the only one who thinks that the only way Smyth will win another championship is if the 36ers were to get a guy new coach on board and let history repeat itself.

IE

1. a complete rebuilding with younger players,
2. Dunlap developing the young players to the point where they were Boomers quality through tough training,
3. Dunlap teaching the team how to play defence,
4. Dunlap getting sacked,
5. Smyth inheriting a Dunlap developed team that could play defence,
6. Smyth getting a couple of NBA quality imports in their prime and implementing a free-flowing offence.

I'm more worried about Smyth's ability to attract decent free agents and top young talent to Adelaide than I am about his coaching.

I fail to see how he will have a successful off-season this year with Smyth at the helm now that there is another team in the league in the Gold Coast that will have a completely free salary cap to work with.

Not only that but even if we target good young players, how many will choose Adelaide?

With Smyth, it will be nothing but more of the same. IE Copeland, Timmons, Wheeler and co.

I'm just going to wait and see what happens, not like we have a say in the matter.

Sorry Yogee, my bad. I will change my statement then:

95% of the people that bag Smyth have valid specific points

the best comment on this post came from isaac (not surprisingly) with the quote "does a patriot .... "

As i have stated in previous threads, coaches arent a great deal different to players..you dont let one go..unless youve got a better one coming in.

Stephon, its time for everyone to stop crapping on about how its Smyth's fault for failing to attract players like Ingles and Newley. You admitted it yourself and I thoroughly agree with you about the question on whether good young players will choose to play in Adelaide. That also applies to any good players, young and old. It is their choice not to come to Adelaide, not Smyth failing to dangle a decent carrot. The club with all its controversy during the off season made it most unattractive for anyone to sign here. For a start, the complete team was signed before a buyer was announced. How did they know what the new buyer had in mind for the team and whether it would suit their situation. How did they know that it was going to be a secure purchase that would allow them to safely sign for multiple years. I believe Adelaide was only handing out 1 year contracts. I know Dusty was looking for more security than just 1 more season with Adelaide. 2 plus an option year with Brisbane was far more attractive. If you look at the new recruits we got this year, you would see that they are the type of players that would have been happy with 1 year. Wheeler, with his injury history, no one else would have touched him. 1 year to see if he could make it injury free would be the best he could hope for. Copeland at 41 years of age is coming to the end of his career. 1 year at a time at this late stage would be ideal. Horvath, a new import, always given 1 year initially. Good players, without an injury history and youth on their side wants more.

EC, on Wheeler: "no one else would have touched him" - completely incorrect - the Dragons were competing for his signature, but Adelaide made a substantially higher second offer. This has been repeatedly stated on the forum. The Dragons later signed Burston.

On one year contracts: how is it that Mark Nash is signed for 2007/08? Or that Ingles was offered a two-year contract?

Ingles was not offered a spot in the ten man roster let alone the rotation. He was not even offered the minimum for a rostered player while other teams made appropriate offers. Any issues with the sale (which was always going to go through to a decent bidder) pale in significance alongside those elements for a young player. I am not making this stuff up!

Yes, it is definitely the choice of players young and old as to where they play, but clubs and coaches absolutely must dangle a carrot to attract players. If you don't, you are bidding on financial terms only.

Did the 36ers make Burston an offer??? Wheeler over Burston...wow

By going by the 1 year contract stuff and the sale rubbish then why was money spend on 'older' players like Wheeler and Copes when it would of made sense to find some promising youngster on the cheap that isn't necessarily playing for coin but wants to play for opportunity. We payed stupid money for these two.

Someone should ask Newley, Ingles, Jawai, Kickert, Bruce, Worthington, Kendall (do I need to go on) if they ever seriously considered Adelaide and whatever their reasons where why they chose their respective team.

My guess is money is low on there list of priorities. The club pays the coin, and most likely most clubs negiotate around the same coin but it's the opportunities (court time), the team structure and development of skills that fall under the direction of the coaching roster which seems to be a clincher, hence possibly why the young ones turn their back on Adelaide.

I don't think Adelaide ever went for Burston.

Of your list, I don't recall ever hearing Adelaide ever pitching for Kickert, Jawai, Bruce, Worthington or Kendall, etc.

The low offer was put to Ingles. I imagine that a better offer was put to Newley, but he would've gone to Townsville for the promise of better court time and development, IMO.

I know it has been said before but imagine a team of

MPG approx averages
MAHER -- 34
INGLES -- 27
HILL -- 24
NEWLEY -- 32
HOLMES -- 30
FORMAN -- 26
COOPER -- 18
WHEELER -- 15
HORVATH -- 34

SUTTON and NG as 10-11 men .

Pretty sure this could be a go financially albeit a tad creatively .

We would have one of the most exciting homegrown teams the league has seen for many a year .
Oh to dream .
ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Whoops meant Ingles 31 mpg and Hill 20 mpg .

"Stephon, its time for everyone to stop crapping on about how its Smyth's fault for failing to attract players like Ingles and Newley."

What is crap about it?

If rookies are going to get pretty much the same cash whether they sign for Adelaide or an interstate team then why has the choice been made by the Adelaide born rookies to sign elsewhere?

Do you have any idea of the amount of time and effort that good coaches/organisations put into recruiting young talent? If you did, then dare I say it you would be disgusted by the effort we put in by comparison.

I couldn't care less if Ingles signed with the Dragons if we put in a 100% effort to secure him as a 36er.

Half the coaches who post on this board who coach on a volunteer basis would have put in 10 times the effort that the 36ers did in recruiting Ingles who is earning a 6 figure salary. When that is the case, something is wrong.

How many Southern Tigers games was Smyth at to watch Ingles? How many AIS games did he go to? I have no idea in this regard. I'm sure posters close to Ingles will be able to answer this question.

EC, imagine your daughter was a star player. You have one organisation who is flying across the country to speak with you and your daughter, making promises about court time, opportunities, professional development (ie a professional pitch). The local organisation doesn't seem to care about your daughter, and are rumoured to not know what position your daughter plays or how to spell her name. Which organisation is in with the better shot to sign your daughter?

You still think it is all crap and we are being too harsh on the 36ers for missing out on good talent?

If you have any facts which contradict what I have heard about our lack of effort to sign local talent then please let me know.

Not saying Worthington, Crosswaite, Kendall etc were ever pitched by Adelaide. If they weren't why is that considering they are young promising Australian talent. I guess they are too young with too much potential to fit into the Adelaide gameplan, or was it a points issue or purely financial.

What does a phonecall and plane ticket cost these days??? If we missed out on Jawai and Mills purely because of a phone call or plane ticket how jacked off are people going to be???? I'm not talking about dropping a Hummer or Ferrari into someone's garage.

Isn't that how the Kings got Kendall, Crosswaite and Worthington, by Goorj being proactive and actually targeting the youngster in the States. A phonecall once a month is hardly going to send the club broke. Would it hurt to be proactive and actually make contact with Kickert and Bruce even though they are still in College and Europe could be a reality before the NBL.

I'm would like to know what their first hand response (given them little time to think about it) would be if:

a) where approached by someone from the 36ers organisation; and

b) reasons to possibly reject the Adelaide offer

We all know about the Ingles debate so lets not harp on that.

Everyone who doesnt want to use the sale as a reason for the teams poor performance this season states "But everyone knows the club would be sold, and would stay in ADelaide"

Yeah, and thats what they told the Newcastle Falcons and Canberra Cannons.

Oops.

Simplistic view Yogee. Don't recall those two clubs getting 5-6,000 people to a game the year before they went under or having people considering starting second teams and so on.

Apologies to all , only just read boti's article regarding all south aussie sixers team and so i guess my contribution would have seemed a little obvious to say the least .

Ahh but Isaac..if your referring to MPV starting a second team, that was only generated as part of the sour grapes of losing the bid for the 6ers in the first place...so cant really bring it into the equation.

My other point is people like stephon etc continue to bring up Newleys name when trying to say how Smyth missed the boat with recruitiung, when stephon, of all people, knows how much the former management was controlling things before they finally stepped aside!

Yogee, MVP's backer was known to be looking at the option of a second team and/or buying the 36ers well before the sale was even announced.

Your comment about Newley shows that you do not understand the situation. The problem in Newley's situation AFAIK was not one of the offer itself not being strong enough. "Former management" don't hand out opportunities on court, remember. The reputation re development is a very important factor in these circumstances.

I dont get it..

1) why didnt Newley get a better offer?

2) who was responsible for the offer he got?

3)Wa there any negotiation..eg, did newleys "people" speak to the 36ers and say he has been offered X by Y?

4)To those that "know", would he have accepted a similar offer from 36ers?

I would love the answers to these questions...is Phil at fault, is another coach/recruiter at fault? is management at fault?

Please.."just the facts Ma-am"

The offer to Newley from Adelaide, AFAIK, wasn't poor (like the Ingles offer which was rubbish). I think that it would've come down to the fact that Stacker showed a lot of personal interest (flying down to visit his family, etc) and would've made substantial assurances as to the court time and opportunities Newley would get at the Crocodiles.

That year, Adelaide, from memory, had Rychart at PF, Holmes and Forman at SF, and then brought back Farley at SG. Nash was signed but injured the entire season. In retrospect, it would've been far smarter to nab Newley at SG and use an import spot elsewhere (centre, for example), but that's easy to say in hindsight.

Personally, I would have recognised Newley's talent and made every attempt to find him minutes (e.g., instead of Nash) and more. In the end, Adelaide found minutes that season for Jason Williams, Darren Ng, Todd Gower and Brad Hill. Even Gerlach and Hambour got a rare bit of time.

Sometimes players come along that you make opportunities for IMO.

thanks isaac, but i dont think the questions have been answered.

So the offer was fine? it was the lack of interest from coaching staff?

was there negotiation?

who decided on the offer and the posible court time etc?

would he have played for us if the offer was right?

I can't answer those questions (for a few reasons).

is there some one who can?

Sure, but I think it's just one of those things where knowing the full story requires being involved in every component or knowing people who were.

I will give my opinion only, and say that I think, yes, he would have played in Adelaide if the opportunities and other elements were right. And that I personally don't think enough was done to get his signature. Wash, rinse, repeat for Ingles.

thanks Isaac