Anonymous
Years ago

NH: Lance Armstrong won't fight charges; TDF wins in question

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/more-sport/lance-armstrong-accepts-usada-drug-charges/story-e6frfglf-1226457338370

Cycling legend Lance Armstrong stripped of TDFs and banned from any further competition, after he decides not to fight charges of doping.

Witch hunt or subliminal admission of guilt?

Accusations flying since his first victory so may be a case of, 'where theres smoke, theres fire'?

Topic #29136 | Report this topic


paul  
Years ago

It's possible that it's a long time since someone clean won the race?

Reply #376882 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Saving face amongst hardcore fanbase. Suspect he got himself in too deep and never backed out.

Reply #376884 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

He has never positive for PED's ... Ridiculous decision

Reply #376888 | Report this post


ankles  
Years ago

I'm with Paul on this one. But a couple of points to consider.

If he did cheat (and while all tests have been negative its probably a little to suggest that with tour winners either side of his reign testing positive that he won 7 in a row without cheating) then he was simply the best cheat - it would be similarly naive to think he wa the only cyclist in the field doping.

I had a mate who rode the Tour de France de Femimin and the first time she did she swore NOBODY could RACE over that distance.

I drug tested on the old Comm Bank Cycle Classic and had a couple of friends on there who were'creeping' over that distance - they went on the ride several Tours de France. Incidentally the winner that year later won the Tour but was scrubbed for a positive test.

So I suspect the timing of Lance's withdrawal from the process is designed to cast maximum doubt on its veracity and to exaggerate the look of a witch-hunt. Much more productive for his reputation than fighting it to the death and then losing?

Reply #376899 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I can imagine having to face drug claims for a good 10+ years constantly would be enough to put an end to it.

Cycling as a whole, has the stigma of drug cheats, how often do we hear cyclist X gets caught? Yet it doesnt surprise anyone.

What happens to the 2nd place getters in all of those TDFs? Are they now proclaimed the 'winner'?

Moving slightly off topic, but why is it so prevelent in the sport? Or do other major sports have the same problem, yet are not catching the athletes?

Ive long believed that pure physical sports (athletics, cycling, swimming etc) would be the sports with the most drug problems, but apart from spot issues in athletics I cant think of many other examples?

Reply #376907 | Report this post


Mickey mouse  
Years ago

Ben cousins took drugs and never tested positive!

Listen to George Hincapie talk about Cadel Evans he says he is the best cyclist he has ever seen, George rode next to lance for ten years, cadel is better because he is clean!!

Reply #376910 | Report this post


blackbird  
Years ago

Just to clarify, he hasnt been stripped of his titles, nor has be been banned. USADA don't have that power. They can put their "findings" and recommendations to the UCI. The UCI will then decide whether to strip the titles and or ban him.

Reply #376917 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Cheers Blackbird, must have missed that.

What is the likelihood that this will happen?

Reply #376919 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Didnt the UCI take USADA to court to prevent them from running this case, claiming UCI had the jurisdiction and demanding evidence be handed over to them?

If so, unlikely theyd automatically strip him of titles. Could be a bit left in this yet.

Reply #376923 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Find a clean athlete in professional sport and they should be canonised because all sport is, a my drug is better than yours event.

Remember when Ben Johnson was lambasted as an Olympic 100m cheat only for history to spotlight his colleagues and racing rivals were all on the juice too.

Precious of anyone to think sport is anything but a chemist shop because of the huge money in it.

Reply #376926 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Paul, I thought it was Armstrong himself who took them to court to stop the investigation?

You're right though, sounds like this might not be the last we hear of Mr 'Livestrong' himself!

Reply #376932 | Report this post


blackbird  
Years ago

Easy to miss Anon, mostly because the USADA are the ones saying they are stripping him and banning him and media are only reporting what is being said. Which begs to question the credibility of USADA even more.

What i have issue with in this whole thing is the use by USADA of the word "evidence". So far the only "evidence" they appear to have is statements from drug cheats. Now just because someone says it happened does not eveidence make. These statements are coming from drug cheats who they have now done deals with and are still riding. Now call me crazy but if you were just found to be a drug cheat and you were facing a life ban but you were offered a get out of jail free card if you said that yeah, i saw Lance Armstrong doping, wouldnt you take the offer? Whether it was true or not, i mean your integrity is already questionable for the fact you are a drug cheat, so its not like your moral compass all of a sudden starts pointing north and you say, no USADA i will take my life ban.

Paul, you are right, and i dont have the time right now to find the exacts (because i know people will ask for them), but from memory UCI dont really hold USADA in too high regard. So this witch hunt could all be for nothing. USADA might get to declare Armstorng a drug cheat, with no factual evidence, but that may be it.

Maybe Armstrong knows the UCI arent going to give any credit to what USADA say and he's figured that if USADA think they have won they will leave him alone.

The court of public opinion will forever be divided on this matter until one side of the coin proves the other one to be completely wrong. For me, until that happens, i will continue to believe Armstrong is one of the greatest athletes.

Reply #376939 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

USADA wasn't keen to hand power to UCI, suggesting that it would be in UCI's interest to cover up doping.

Chris Anstey retweeted this:

1999
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Alex Zülle ('98 busted for EPO)
3. Fernando Escartín (Systematic team doping exposed in ‘04)
4. Laurent Dufaux (‘98 busted for EPO)
5. Ángel Casero (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)


2000
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
4. Christophe Moraue (‘98 busted for EPO)
5. Roberto Heras (‘05 busted for EPO)


2001
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
4. Andrei Kivilev
5. Igor González de Galdeano (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)


2002
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Joseba Beloki (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Raimondas Rumšas (Suspended in ‘03 for doping)
4. Santiago Botero (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
5. Igor González de Galdeano (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)


2003
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
3. Alexander Vinokourov (Suspended in ‘07 for CERA)
4. Tyler Hamilton (Suspended ‘04 for blood doping)
5. Haimar Zubeldia


2004
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Andreas Kloden (Named in doping case in ‘08)
3. Ivan Basso (Suspended in ‘07 for Operacion Puerto ties)
4. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
5. Jose Azevedo (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)


2005
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Ivan Basso (Suspended in ‘07 for Operacion Puerto ties)
3. Jan Ullrich (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
4. Fransico Mancebo (‘06 implicated in Operacion Puerto)
5. Alexander Vinokourov (Suspended in ‘07 for CERA)

Reply #376940 | Report this post


blackbird  
Years ago

Easy to miss Anon, mostly because the USADA are the ones saying they are stripping him and banning him and media are only reporting what is being said. Which begs to question the credibility of USADA even more.

What i have issue with in this whole thing is the use by USADA of the word "evidence". So far the only "evidence" they appear to have is statements from drug cheats. Now just because someone says it happened does not eveidence make. These statements are coming from drug cheats who they have now done deals with and are still riding. Now call me crazy but if you were just found to be a drug cheat and you were facing a life ban but you were offered a get out of jail free card if you said that yeah, i saw Lance Armstrong doping, wouldnt you take the offer? Whether it was true or not, i mean your integrity is already questionable for the fact you are a drug cheat, so its not like your moral compass all of a sudden starts pointing north and you say, no USADA i will take my life ban.

Paul, you are right, and i dont have the time right now to find the exacts (because i know people will ask for them), but from memory UCI dont really hold USADA in too high regard. So this witch hunt could all be for nothing. USADA might get to declare Armstorng a drug cheat, with no factual evidence, but that may be it.

Maybe Armstrong knows the UCI arent going to give any credit to what USADA say and he's figured that if USADA think they have won they will leave him alone.

The court of public opinion will forever be divided on this matter until one side of the coin proves the other one to be completely wrong. For me, until that happens, i will continue to believe Armstrong is one of the greatest athletes.

Reply #376941 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

He did it! Everyne wants to believe the miracle that he overcame the most insane odds, but too many people have put there own reps on the line to out him. He has more to gain from clearing his name, im sure he has caught wind of some facts that will destroy his rep. He will still have some pro Lance fans by doing it this way. Better of 2 evils.

Reply #376954 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

blackbird - I think the most telling confessions are the ones that came from Armstrong's long term personal trainer and team doctor. Both of these guys have received lifetime bans. For mine, I don't see what they had to gain from implicating Armstrong.

The other thing to remember is that Armstrong has returned at least one positive test, during the 1999 Tour. I don;t recall the full circumstances but the result wasn't able to be confirmed with a second sample or something similar. The Australian drug tester who tested him has never wavered from his view that Armstrong was doping.

Armstrong also returned a number of high testosterone tests in the 1990s, before his cancer and subsequent successes in the Tour. These were USA tests and it has to be remembered that doping was quite prevalent and poorly policed in US sports in that period. Testing results (generally) reportedly were ignored, covered up or falsified. Subsequent revelations related to high profile athletes such as Marion Jones are consistent with this view.

Reply #376975 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I dont think he returned a positive test, there was a test that had some inconsistencies but was not positive for any banned substance.

Reply #376976 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

BTW, Im not saying he's innocent, I personally cynical about anyone successful in road cycling.

Reply #376977 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

He should stop hanging out with Shane Warne's mum.

Reply #376984 | Report this post


orbit  
Years ago

Blackbird your scenario sounds very 'street wise' & makes it all sound like an episode of law & order. People can stupe to the lowest common denominator when there own livelihood is on the line! It sounds like a game of 'we're all tarnished with the same brush no one say shit.' Yet the cat is outta the bag?

Reply #376985 | Report this post


Ricey  
Years ago

He is only dropping the fight to save face. By doing it now he tactically creates plenty of doubt about the investigation, and allowing him to look innocent. He probably found out some more information about to be handed over or whatever and decided to make sure it couldn't be used. There is no way he has been clean this entire time. If was this champion he is supposed to be, he would be determined to make sure no doubts can be put on his legacy...

Reply #377025 | Report this post




You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.



Close ads
Serio: Tourism photography and videography
Little Streaks - The fun and interactive good-habits app designed especially for kids.

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 8:21 pm, Tue 19 Mar 2024 | Posts: 968,026 | Last 7 days: 754