Live-to-ball
Years ago

The life of being a BIG

Is it just me or does anyone else who is 6'9, 6'8, 6'7 or even just BIG in their respective junior leagues struggle to get a foul called on them. It's normally referred to as a coat hanger because all the little kids like to hang off your arms every time you are taking a shot, and there is no foul called?

It just rubs the dirt in the wound even more when you block one of these midgets and strait away the umpires call a foul. Wouldn't surprise me if they called it before you even attempted the block.

Just because you may be taller than all the others doesn't mean you should run on a different set of rules. Especially in UNDER 18's!! Unfortiantly in my league in HOBART being the tallest player on the court means that all the others have the ability to hack the sh@t out of you all the time.

It's just disappointing to see that a BIG never gets a chance to own a game because of all the fouls that get let go. IT'S NOT HARD TO SEE THAT EVEN UMPIRES ARE TRYING TO TURN BASKETBALL INTO A SMALL PERSONS GAME. SOON WE WILL SEE PLAYERS UNDER SIX FOOT RUNNING AROUND ON THE BASKETBALL COURT EVEN IN THE NBA BECAUSE UNFORTIANTLY IF YOU ARE OVER AVERAGE SIZE YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE ON THE WRESTLING COURT RATHER THAN PLAYING BASKETBALL!,!,!

Basically all I want is your thoughts on this issue.

Thanks

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Sounds like a bad night at the office bro, I see some Big C's mainly in the mens comp who work the refs and get calls on the motion of jumping up to the board by grunting and howling as if they have been shot on the way up, ugly and irritating but he gets the calls.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

welcome to the world of basketball :)

Reply #377762 | Report this post


Live-to-ball  
Years ago

@anonymous, yeah when I think about it I have seen a lot of plays where a player makes a sound and gets the foul. It's irritating that the game has got to that point though. And @2nd anonymous I know that's the world of basketball but shortly the refs can work to make the game more equal?

Reply #377764 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I love the passion and way you started of politely then end in a rage lol.
Im not that tall, 5 inches shorter..but playing in every league I have anytime you block a short person your done for it, could be a metre away but its ur still done.

Reply #377767 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yer making the sounds is a bit over the top, but how else are "we" suppose to get the calls. Im 6'11 and i definitely do not bitch if a fould isn't called because i know refs cannot ref a big man, but seriously if you a smaller playing and you get fouled and scream its not any different. in fact most of the time i go to the basket i get double teamed and i have 1-2 guys hanging off me, it gets frustrating when they dont call but i get pride out of going up to the basket and dropping those points on foul or no foul. then again i could just drop 3's on them all day, no way are they getting near my release!!

Reply #377768 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

If you're that big, finish through the contact and harden up.

While I understand how frustrating inconsistent officiating can be, you have an absolutely enormous advantage over the shorter guys in the first place. This cannot be understated.

Referees at an amateur level are never going to call the game the same as the NBA. If you don't learn to accept it, basketball won't be very much fun for you.

Reply #377772 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why do the refs think it is their place to even it up. Basketball is a big boys game. Refs that got left behind because they did not grow should get over it!

Reply #377775 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Are all bigs this sooky?

Reply #377781 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Clealry a short person answering the last post.
BIGS are always poorly reffed. I know a guy who was 7'+ and he once told me that a ref said " just cos you are tall means that you can't expect to be reff'd any differently than thos that are smaller than you".
Crap.
Most fo the way that "short" people try and guard a tall person is simply by fouling them. it would be legally impossible to without contact, yet the ref's seem to think that cos you are tall you have an advantage because you are tall and we will favor the short person.
Crap.

Reply #377785 | Report this post


hoopie  
Years ago

I know your frustration, mate. I get sick of one set of rules for the little guys and one for the bigs.

As for those anons who reckon you're being a sook, I reckon they'd be spraying the refs pretty quickly if they got elbowed in the guts and the nuts a few times by shorter players trying to make a statement.

Reply #377786 | Report this post


Clapped Out Hack  
Years ago

Used to call my son the 'Clothes Line' in junior basketball. Every time he went for a shot there would be a couple of kids hanging off each arm.
A much wiser head than mine fixed it for a while by getting him to use the elbows to make some space. Worked well till the Garden Gnome Refs started targeting him with fouls for having his elbows out. He is used to it now and does not sook but still gets frustrated occasionally when he comes back from Nationals or a tour of Vic. where he can enjoy a more physical game, to be put down by refs who think it is physically imposisble for a tall player to make a clean block on a guard. Has developed an impressive standing dunk that they have trouble picking on, so they have resorted to Tech fouls if he hangs onto the ring.

Reply #377790 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

This is not to just have a go at umpires as I know you are needed, but what I have noticed over the last couple years looking at it from both sides. I have a daughter that is reasonable tall and has been though out her Basketball career so far, (I also have a quick shorter one) the double standard is so unfair not to mention the screens she will make towards the hoop that often leaves her the injured one, because if you stand there completely still waiting for someone to run into you guts, to maybe wind or hurt your back, as at the last minute they try to side swipe you twisting your back and body as they go. And because the bigs are somehow able to look after themselves or so the umpires seem to think, your injury, your problem. You may look older than you are on the court because of your size, but you may be the youngest one, growing to fast for your age and your body, I think that makes you more prone to injury, height doesn't always mean your body has got the muscle strength yet. Not the umpires problem, your tall, take it, often seems to be the conclusion...
I have heard the call CHARGE with the arm action!!! and then the other girl hits the floor awkwardly and Foul has been called in its place seconds after... W.T.F the umpire just looks and says, she wasn't STILL long enough... you are either "still" or moving, the long enough thing was crap especially after it was called Charge in the first place. but as the little one wasnt looking and gets hurt so the call is changed. Talls DON'T get that luxury, if they are hurt hit or kneed in the back, or arms yanked as they shoot etc..the expectations is "your big suck it up".. The only way it will be reffed any different is by having tall refs that have been there done that and played years of this game, knowing there is at times, a double standard that needs rectifying. Short umpires are usually the ones that couldn't make it in the game, (I know not in all cases) and see it only from the floored double standard way it usually has been.
To all of you umpires that make the right calls either way, for talls or short people. Thank you for that, you are like gold and should be treasured, this comment is not about the way you umpire.
Guess now I will hear how all the short players that have never walked in a talls shoes feel, even though things are usually already going your way!! THIS IS NOT A SOOK JUST THE WAY I HAVE SEEN IT RUN. MY OPINION.

Reply #377806 | Report this post


Fleagle  
Years ago

Mick you have the classic opinion of most guards.... Sure we have an advantage because we are taller but that by no means, means that taller people should get officiated differently.
Or am I missing some hidden rule that says if your taller, you get officiated harsher?

Reply #377808 | Report this post


ankles  
Years ago

Basketball certainly has a Darwinian approach to the development of bigs/talls. 'If you are tough enough to put up with the crap all the way through juniors, then we will value you at a later date. If not, find another sport where you will be looked after.'

Having followed my tall daughter through juniors and seen innumerable photo's, it never ceases to amaze me how every photo of a guard is basically unencumbered, while every photo of a big sees them dealing with contact all the time. I have often tried to tell refs that it is their job to make the game FAIR, not even. In that case, a foul is a foul, regardless of size, or scoreline for that matter.

We certainly don't do anything (as a sport) to nurture the tall athletes who will ultimately be our stars, but we are very quick to damn any player with height who tends to drift to the perimeter as 'soft'.

Yes - talls need to learn to play with contact, that is their lot, but I had an interesting conversation with a couple of friends the other day, both of whom have played extensively in the NBL and WNBL (respectively of course) as shooting guards, but who as Masters athletes are now talls.

Their view now is 'why would a big play - all they do is rebound the guards' shitty shots and get ignored when they have battled to get position inside'. They are amazed that none of their big contemporaries still want to play Masters ball.

Surely as a sport we want to encourage ALL players to develop their skill levels and the best way to do that is to allow them to execute their skills without people hanging all over them (the niggling, 'tagging-type' foul is the last resort of the player who is outmatched on a skill level and unfortunately the first resort of many poor coaches). Why does it seem impossibel to create this environment for all players?

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Clapped Out Hack  
Years ago

There was a discussion here a while ago about "Bigs" and someone stated that the game was evolving and their role was changing but I think it is less a mater of evolution and more genetic engineering. The rules are constantly being changed to take away the perceived advantage of the big player, the three point line wase introduced to allow the smaller players to feel they could have a greater impact on the game. They must have thought that was not enough and wanted to be able to drive onto the key and shoot over the bigs in there but were diss appointed when they got blocked, so they introduced the no charge circle to help them out, probably countless others over the history of the game. No doubt trying to think up the next one now. Ban dunking for anyone over 6'2" because they must have an advantage.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

so apparently the answer is "yes, all bigs ARE this sooky"...

Reply #377821 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

how does the hand (anything from elbow up is classified as hand) become a part of the ball if hit while shooting (no foul), but when a big curls their finger downwards and touches ball only it is a foul.

have a look at any tall at end of game the red marks from being hacked whilst shooting

and do not start me about you are big enough to take it some even playing field

Reply #377823 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#821 I would love to see you play through the contact that most bigs do. Chances are you'd be subbing yourself out within 3 minutes having a "sook".

Reply #377825 | Report this post


Clapped Out Hack  
Years ago

You can call it sooking if that satisfies your defensive feelings, that's ok. But there seems to be a bit of frustration that needs to be vented, better here than on the court.

Reply #377828 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Watched my kids grow up as the tallest in the team pretty much the past 7 years or so, from under 12's to under 18's.

No sooking allowed in my opinion, you get the ball as a tall don't just give it back under pressure all the time, try to work through the contact and the officiating (or lack of it)!

Don't complain to the ref, leave that up to the coach if he/she sees you being held or fouled, it's their job to make an official aware of what is going on if they are not watching the action.

By patient and continue to grow physically and mentally until you end up playing at the highest levels where the standards are better suited to you and you will reap the rewards.

No doubt there is a different perception of the rules inside the key for the bigs compared to that of the smaller player, inside or outside the key!

But, the game was invented as a high scoring game for athletic people with a clear intention of skill over muscle, played on a hard surface in a contained space for dynamic action and enjoyment...

I don't see this changing any time soon, but officials do need to check their code of conduct and understand that they have a duty of care and a duty to officiate in the correct manner, nothing more a tall player can do but work on their strength and skill knowing the little guys can only dream of dunking!

Reply #377836 | Report this post


Titfortat  
Years ago

Firstly,I am under 6 foot and I referee,so I guess I am already on two strikes :o) probably one of the biggest issues in this country is that we do not referee bigs well (no pun intended) in the past to put it simply there was not enough bigs to referee and it is a matter of the more you see it,the better you get at it.
Over the past five years there has been a significant increase in the number of big players in the game but officiating in this area has not been improved to the levels required to simply be calling the game on its merits. As a referee it should never be about evening out the contest, but call it as you see it. For me the biggest issue is the disadvantage advantage application.
In juniors this to me is why there can be double standards as bigs and those physically stronger can be seen to be picked on in one instance and ignored the next. We need better education in our junior officials to call the game more consistent.
There was an interesting point made in the flopping thread regarding Kobe driving at chris Paul and then someone the size of say nathan jawai. Paul falls over from the contact and gets the charge call,jawai doesn't because he's a beast and so it's a no call. Good dee should be rewarded regardless.
What I also think people miss is that it takes great maturity and understanding to be a referee. It takes us longer to mature into strong consistent officials as we can't rely on height or strength to get the job done. Junior players make silly mistakes when they play and so do junior referees. We rarely see anyone under the age of 30 promoted to the nbl, and this is purely because of maturity and understanding of the game.
This isn't an excuse but until someone comes up with a better education system to help referees understand the game better this area will not improve. Strike three

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Agree totally. If you are big you need to get murdered for a foul to get called. You put any contact on a smaller player and it is a foul. They need to be consistant or please do not referee!

Most referee courses take a day course to get the qualification....enough said right there. A lot of refs do not even know the rules.

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Latrentis  
Years ago

What a pointless post this is!!! Refs don't call fouls because you are tall...maybe you just aren't coordinated enough to get a clean block??? It goes both ways in basketball whether you are a big or a guard. I've seen guards get hammered inside the paint and no calls.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The OP is absolutely correct, I've been watching my 6'10" son penalized for being a big from 7 through 19. Sometimes a block with a bit of a body foul gets called as unsportsmanlike foul. I think it has something to do with our egalitarian society where Australians see bigs as having an unfair advantage.

The funny thing is that in an evening social competition, the refs that have been impacting on his game for years, formed a team and were the dirtiest players I have ever seen.

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Clapped Out Hack  
Years ago

Pretty popular for a pointless post Letrine, iit does get annoying when you are watching junior games and see the big player constantly battling with defenders pulling their arms down at the elbows and hanging all over them while at the other end refs are telling them to stand still with their arms straight up in the air, calling fouls because their hands are tilting forward of there is contact at the hip. You don't see them sook any more than any of the others out there but as a coach or a spectator it annoys the crap out of you and makes you sook for them in places like this!

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Ricey  
Years ago

Simple way to end it all... Play like a big. If you keep getting hacked, the. Put your elbows out and protect the ball, if you crack somebody nice and hard you won't be getting hacked again... Basic shit... It's not like this is a new thing to bigs...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Cannot put your elbows back or even elbow someone with force if someone is grabbing them Ricey!

Trust me refs need to be consistent or get a another job.

Reply #377930 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So funny...

Bigs are big and soft. And clearly sook

Take the contact and make the bucket. FFS

Reply #377933 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

OK anyone who likes to play big, time to get those elbows out, seems like that is what was expected all along. Someone shouold have said this at the start of this. Now who is going to tell the refs?

Reply #377942 | Report this post


Bruce  
Years ago

Seems like it just depends on your personal bias , my kid plays on the big every week and is really only a swingman and picks up plenty of fouls on d but gets belted around offensively and gets nothing !! Doesn't take much effort for someone 10 to 20 kg heavier to clear a path without registering the contact !

Reply #377950 | Report this post


Latrentis  
Years ago

Maybe its a SA or Tassie thing then Clapped out Hick as saw a game today where the big was allowed to basically clothesline the guard who was trying to get the ball and no offensive foul called. Like Bruce said all depends on your personal bias.
If you have decent reffing then the game will be called fair both ways!!

Reply #377958 | Report this post


Bballer10000  
Years ago

How can you say bigs are sooks when theres plenty of guards who have never enter the key and take a hard knock. I personally know a kid who plays SEABL and all he does is stand on the baseline corner three waiting for the ball to be thrown his way.

As a big I don't mind the no calls as much as some of you guys do though because being physical makes the game fun for the bigs. Who doesn't like a bit of push and shove or an elbow here ant there while being beaten up in the key!

To other Bigs, if you know you are going to get the foul called...... FOUL HARD, make it so that the little guards don't want to come into the paint again because they should be scared of you. Take your size and use it to make your presence felt even more!

Reply #377980 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

TitforTat I appreciate your honesty and also your points on maturity especially. Yes, in fact it must be a maturity issue to some degree as I have seen the best officiating come from those officials that take the time to understand and comprehend what is going on in a game.

This is hard to do as a young person. I hope I was not ref bashing as this was not my intent and some of my post was tongue in cheek.

What I mean by understand and comprehend is this:

As an official, try to understand what players and coaches are attempting to achieve on court. At times this is very clear, so if you can comprehend the style of play and especially listen to the coaches questions and concerns you will possibly be able to make more correct decisions.

I am not talking about a crystal ball here, just that the better officials actually listen to coaches before they bark back at them and tend to take more notice of what goes on in the key (where the action is)...

Obviously if a coach is just being a dick, tech them, but try to listen and comprehend first, maybe!!?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I hypothesis another theory and it is that Ref's/umpires struggle to officiate the key properly, often see player regardless of size get called for fouls on all ball blocks because of the bent arm, downward action or side angle to ball. I often see charges called in the no charge in and had one Referee explain that the defender was in the air so it quantifies the charge?

I honestly believe the officiates don't rule the FIBA stated Silo rule for defense at the basket and unfortunately interpretation and umpiring directives can lead to players & coaches legitimately querying calls.

I'm almost 100% certain that BSA have advised umpires to officiate no call on 3 in the key if the O player is not guarded with deny contact or making a offensive post for possession.

Overall I think they have a hard time identifying the "initiated contact" v defensive silo where at times there are 3 bodies in the mix.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

lol bigs are sooks!!!

Reply #378395 | Report this post


Clapped Out Hack  
Years ago

Bigs sre so sooky we can sneak on here and say it in the safety of anonymous.

Reply #378433 | Report this post




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