ringlord
Years ago
Will Magic be allowed to have a div2 team from the get go in summer season this year in the under 16 girls,or will we have 3 div3 teams?Has this number of teams in one division happened ever before?
Settle down there ringlord. It happens quite a lot.
It's a yawn
Years ago
Ringlord and this is achievement you regard as significant - perhaps quote the number of NBL titles you have won or ABA state leagues or State titles of any description Kids in State Title or National club or even a coach involved in any high level program - you expect clubs to take your seriously when 3 teams in a division is a claim to fame.Get out of those white Singlets let SOUTH the rightful owners wear them. Face the facts you are a division 3 make up the number club with no pathway for your juniors - the sooner West North Forestville Woodville and South squeeze you out the better. Feeder club for EAGLES and West. Thanks.
You do an injust to those kids by holding out for the world to welcome you as the messiahs - you are at best mediocre in the West, come play with us big boys east and south before you open and shoot off your mouth.
ringlord
Years ago
Did my subconscious mind take over & write another post somewhere because i don't remember claiming no Messiahship or fame,i am just after some basic info on the matter.Most of the kids move up from under 14 div 2 this season where they were quite solid,in the under 16 they could be in the top half of the ladder if given the chance,and yes we are a feeder club to all of the above stated teams-what is wrong with that so are other much older clubs,till now i didn't know most other clubs won NBL/state records in their first decade of existence ,you must belong to a really progressive club(imagine me patting your back in a sign of congratulations)keep up the good work and let others have some fun also!
rockfords alicante
Years ago
pro / rel over summer then there will be a div 3 and div 4
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
Ringlord, I believe you were merely making the point that having three teams in an age group and them being forced into div3 is unfair, not that having the three teams in one division was a 'feat'.
Having cleared the air of prejudice, I'm retty sure any high-ranking member of your club could provide you the incredibly obvious answer: Western Magic doesn't have an ABA Men's or Women's team. Ergo, the club isn't entitled to nominate teams for whatever division they see fit.
Unless things work in your favour and it saves Basketball SA scheduling issues, expect to have three div3 teams for the Summer season.
Also, you should already be aware of this, since was exactly the case over the past Summer season for your Magic U14 Girls - funny enough, you had three teams in div3 then too!
One more point: I've coached against the group in U14 div2 currently, and there's no way they would be in the top half of div2...
,
Years ago
whilst woodville do not have a div 1 team and a div 2 struggling magic should not be allowed to play in D2.
players / parents told outright if you want D2 go to woodville or .....
who wants D2 club ? coaches ? players ? parents ?
when people play for magic they should know that it is not a full member club.
looking at previous results it appears by next summer when those u14s are second years the club they will be D2 standard
Jack Toft
Years ago
This situation speaks volumes of the state of girls basketball at district level.
Woodville - struggling to field a single U16 team
South - advertising for girls, struggling for teams
Centrals - 2 teams in current season
Eastern - 2 teams in current season
West - 3 teams in current season
North - 3 teams in current season
Southern - 3 teams in current season
Sturt - 4 teams currently, will probably field 4 teams next season
Norwood - 5 teams currently - same again?
Forestville - 5 teams in current season, 50 players in next season squad.
Vader
Years ago
ringlord,
Considering how the club was initialy set up with BASA being told lies abou tthe amount of recruiting from current member club, I for one feel that Magic should be expected to meet more stringent guidelines before being allowed to enter teams.
I for one think that they shoud only be allowed to enter into grades where West and Woodville already have 4 teams.
There existance as a low cost district club (as they do not have Senior State League team costs) is proving to be detrimental to the overall quality of the comeptition and the existance of other Western suburbs clubs.
I think you need to understand that there are 10 member clubs who contribute a significant amount of resources into the entirety of metro basketball that would be against the Magic being anything more than a div 3 social club. Not just in a pocket that suits low cost. And that if BSA took Magic out of the competition it would be of no harm to basketball as players would be able to move into other clubs.
There are a few girls joining the team in new season that have played in higher divs this year really strengthening this team, that's one reason for an upgrade interest.
Well those girls and their families are stupid.
Magic will never be more than a Div 3 club and going to Magic is equal to ending any hope of a real basketball experience.
Well done
,
Years ago
thats just it - probably 75% of u16 girls at any club just want to play with their friends and are not really interested in results or doing much more with their basketball.
hence we have D4 in u16s and D2 in u18s
ringlord come back and talk to us re D2 when that better group are second years
,
Years ago
look at results - u18 team, then u16 D3s and then the u14s coming up - not enough ammunition at this stage.
most kids play a div lower as first years anyway.
I assume that 5to6 players will be second year under 16,but off course they must prove themselves to be worthy of a higher division in the summer season.If the bloke coaching them is this years under 14div2 coach they should do quit well.By the way what is this about lying to BASA about recruitment numbers this is the first i have heard about the topic?
Mimas
Years ago
When Magic proposed to enter the competition, they assurred BASA that they had teams ready to gowithout needing players from West and Woodville.
Obviously that proved to be quite a large load of Crud.
,
Years ago
the 5-6 second years that will be top age do not have a strong enough record in u16 D3 to nominate for d2.
MS
Years ago
"thats just it - probably 75% of u16 girls at any club just want to play with their friends and are not really interested in results or doing much more with their basketball."
Never heard a bigger load of BS in my life.
This may be true at Magic but don't apply it to the other 10 Clubs.
Magic is a social Club, stay where you belong
The Warriors should never have moved completely to the dome,they should have kept ST-Clair as a training venue at least and there would not have been a need for a club like Magic in the first place.Now the two clubs sharing the same venue is just bizarre & not health for either.It would have been great if both clubs could have had a massive recruitment every year in two different venues,but unfortunately this is not the case.I don't think a lot of players from West or Woodville would make up numbers in Magic,maybe a handful.The two clubs should sit down with Basketball SA & agree to a merge(like Cougars-Warriors)or get Magic to agree to be a feeder club to Woodville like the previous agreement that flopped between West & Magic!
300
Years ago
The conversataion should go like this.
Magic, you are no longer in the district comeptition, can you send all youir players to West or Woodville trials.
What if a rich sponsor is found to fund a Magic ABL programs,would they then be allowed by Basketball SA to compete in the top SA competition + access to all divisions across all age groups.Of course this would attract better coaches & players from all over the place,maybe a reversal of getting players from from other clubs back to the western suburbs, something that Woodville & West haven't achieved at all!
PlaymakerMo
Years ago
@anon - last time I checked, Magic have achieved infinitely less than Woodville or West Adelaide.
If Magic are relying on a rich (phantom) sponsor to compete and grow the club, then just fold right now and stop being a detriment to SA basketball.
300
Years ago
What if all of BSA decided that Magic were the only good club, and everyone decided to play for them and Magic could become BSA and run all the comps.
Sorry you cant hear the sarcasm. BSA still wont let them in because it would be at the detriment of the other established Western suburbs clubs.
Why would you just create a similar problem. Its not like you would get the coaches rom the clubs you need. Noone with any sense would go to that club.
So if the Magic are that good why did the President leave and take her son to another club??
anon
Years ago
Magic shouldnt merge with either club specifically because whatever club they do will make them the power club in the west and probably cause the other to fold
They should just be disassembled completely and players given flyers for both West and Woodville trials
it cant go on
look at the woodville girls program
look at what is becoming the west boys program
magic was an experiment it has failed, BSA forget about money and do what is best for basketball
Magic seems to be succeeding where other clubs that way are failing in getting female numbers into the game - well done. I believe if they are good enough, they should be able to play whichever division they can qualify in.
If other clubs decide to take junior resources and spend it on senior costs, that is on them.
Once again the clubs surrounding you are trying to drag down/deny those providing a succesful service and reaping the rewards. Good luck Magic!
MS
Years ago
anon 026 you don't have a clue.
Is it a REQUIREMENT of the ten District Clubs to fund ABA teams.
It isn't 'on them' to spend on Seniors..its COMPULSORY.
Read up and find the truth behind the BS before you sprout rubbish on here.
Actually MS paying players is NOT a requirement, nor is it compulsory. You CHOOSE to do it, and make your juniors pay for it!
MS
Years ago
041 you must be living with the fairies.
Have to bring you on-board to balance the Club books and keep to ABA teams on the pine. Of course it costs money to ALL Clubs running a Senior program. If you think its a huge budget you are mis-informed. All run on the smell of an oily rag.
The biggest travesty is that BSA in a moment of weakness grabbed the cash and allowed Magic into the competition under a different set of rules.
You should be forced to compete on a level playing field and fund 2 ABA teams or told to piss off to Social grades where you belong.
MS - perhaps if your club made their senior program self-sufficient then they wouldn't have to charge juniors to prop them up. Then your juniors could pay the same as others for the same service instead of more. Paying ABA players and coaches who don't deliver a return in revenue is pretty dumb. Every club with an ABA team does it to some extent. Why should juniors prop them up?
No wonder our Western suburbs clubs are being overtaken by Magic with people like MS in charge - lets just whinge and blame others and try to ban the competition. If Magic are good enough to be in Div 2, play them in Div 2. All other factors are irrelevant. Simple as that.
magic who??
never heard of them but then again we have been involved in div1 for 35 years
MS
Years ago
113 how would you even know the finances of Clubs and their Senior program.
The juniors prop it up because you say so?
Thats just dumb.
Magic overtaking other Clubs?
You are living in a dream, such visions of grandeur by a bunch of amateurs.
If you REALLY want to step up to Div2's pay the correct subs
Magic not playing in div1 because of no ABL teams is understandable but div2 come on give me a break since when did it become some kind of an elite group?At worst somebody has to be in the bottom of the ladder to that logic Port Power shouldn't be in the AFL!DIV 1 should belong to the 10 member clubs ,but lower divs should not have more than one team per div ,even if the girls have 4 divisions bad luck go to your closest club and play there not travel across town 30km to be in for example sturts second div2 or 3 team!
,
Years ago
Div 2 then it will be "why no div 1 ?" - I have no problem with this - but woodville and west must be full or out of the way before we start another div 1/2 club up- if woodville and / or west fold - no problems.
it is not right to see the clubs that have done the hard yards and earnt their stripes struggling.
300
Years ago
Why do we need another club in the Western suburbs unless we have 2 full and overflowing clubs.
And how would it be equilable for those clubs required to field ABA teams to compete with a club that is not required to do the same.
The 10 member clubs should get together and all agree to forfiet games against Magic until all their players have gone to play for West or Woodville. Or who ever else they please.
BSA would be no worse off financially, and might actually be better of because West and Woodville would inprove their retention rates.
300 completely agree.
Would Magic still be playing in the District competition if not for the conflict of interest of one of its members on the BSA Commission?
MS - if juniors are not paying for your senior teams, why are your fees any higher than Magics then? Are Magic just better run?
Again, you are finding reasons NOT to allow a competitive group play in a division that suits their skill levels (potentially). If Magic are better than Woovilles girls, or Wests boys, let them take their spot. Then perhaps West and Woodville will have to improve their services to earn their spot, rather than just have it given to them.
#230 if this compeitive group wants to play in the District Competition. They can.
For a District club, not a social club.
Simple.
MS
Years ago
Anon 230-OMG-you just don't quit despite all the facts before you
BSA charge the 10 District Clubs a HIGHER..please read HIGHER registration cost than Magic
Registration fees purely reflect that for juniors
Magic being a social Club attract a lower fee cost from BSA than District Clubs.
So sorry that it isn't due to 'Magic just better run'
You continue to ignore the above restrictions and want your cake and eat it too.
If you want 'in' to the District competition PAY THE REQUIRED FEE TO BSA
otherwise...just quit your moaning and go away
Why do these threads exist? Why BSA why does it appear that you don't care? care to explain? care to justify? they regularly haunt the forum its well known. Perhaps I have no idea but it appears that BSA show no direction or leadership and are happy to syphon funds without return or responsibility to its members?
First of all if Magic was kicked out of the district comp most guys would go and play footy or soccer because most of Magics boys play 2 sports,girls would leave to play school sports or netball-basketball in the west would not gain anything from this.I agree that if Magics div 2 sides are better than wests or woodvilles give them the spot.
Well said anon above!
It seems MS and his ilk are scared of competition! All of these deflections to take away from the only thing that matters - is this team better than an existing team in D2? No wonder Magic seem to be excelling at getting female numbers in to the game where it's near neighbours are struggling.
MS
Years ago
pfft...shaking in my boots..
on the subject of deflections take a look at you avoidance of fees
suppose you get what you pay for..
Jack Toft
Years ago
I actually think that clubs like Magic and Torrens Valley have a place in District Basketball. I believe there should be more "low end" clubs, but playing at Div 3 level. They offer a low cost option for those players who want "a bit more than social" but "don't want the seriousness of higher comp".
What I would like to see is the ten "full" clubs play DIv 1 and 2, but then each of those clubs have low cost feeder clubs supporting those full clubs and offering a pathway to a higher level.
Each District Club would have a number of other clubs feeding them players who want to play at a higher level and the District Clubs can focus on fewer teams, but offer broader developmental support. That's pretty much an association model, but does that make sense?
Lol
Years ago
Until one of these clubs wants more and uses its lower costs to decrease the ability of the club they should be feeding to recruit and therefore destabilize them.
Oh wait, that is exactly what is happening now.
No Jack it doesn't.
Not when a club's feeder social club is playing in the same competition as their District club.
Not when BSA keeps changing the rules and saying these feeder club's can't play Division 1 or 2, then the pressure of a BSA Commission member means they actually are allowed to play Division 2.
If you want an Association model then BSA have to actually put in place an Association model.
Half attempts at reform, like Youth League but for Divs 1 - 6, like Promotion/Relegation but only for Div 3 and below where its least needed and North/South pools in a District Competition all have failed.
Another half attempt at reform will create more problems then it solves, just like the examples above.
Jack Toft
Years ago
337, I don't think a feeder club should be playing in the same comp.
Div 1 and 2: ten district clubs
Div 3 and below: clubs that are associated with the district clubs and have linkages to district clubs
Div 1 and 2: "full fees"
Div 3 and below: "lower fees", but a step above social
"Social": beginners
So you'd limit District clubs to 2 teams per age group?
How do they generate any revenue?
Jack Toft
Years ago
Revenue to fund the ABL team?
On courts results is about getting sufficient critical mass to generate good players. That can be achieved through association or via their own teams. The district club would have an association fee for any of their affiliated teams.
As an aside, based on the recent season boys results only. Grouping the clubs into those with more than 23 boys teams and those with less than 23. Those "larger" clubs are at a significant advantage.
Large Club:
Ave Div 1 ladder position: 4.38
Ave Div 2 ladder position: 4.77
Ave Pro/Rel ladder position: 4.88
Smaller Club:
Ave Div 1 ladder position: 6.40
Ave Div 2 ladder position: 8.65
Ave Pro/Rel ladder position: 4.67
The key to having really good players at the top of the pyramid is to have a broad pyramid base. Just as Coles and Woolies have their "no frills" brands, why would a district club not want an affiliation with a "no frills" brand aimed at a lower level?
Revenue to fund a full time Coaching Director for Juniors maybe?
Don't buy into the ABA lies and myths Jack.
What funds?
Your plan would cut off most of a club's income.
well it seemed to work for west and magic for the year they had it going before BSA decided your becoming too good and had to put a stop to it
According to whom?
West and Magic had big issues with uniforms and fees with Magic players moving into West teams but paying less fees then their team mates.
It lasted all of 6 - 12 months.
Hardly a good test case.
The problem right now is that Magic isn't really a feeder club or associated with anyone anymore,so till something goes down they should be allowed to field second division teams where strong enough,anything else is bull....!!!!!!!
Anon
Years ago
magic what a woeful excuse - started by non achievers who couldnt handle the heat in real clubs and now dreaming about a fantasy- please give them full status so thr real clubs can smash them and put them out of their misery- magic v sabres rd 1 and then let the west hammer them and yeah lets have ab ABAgame and maybe they could play the Mavs and let tess score 100 by half time
joke joke
Jack for Prime Minister i say,this man is a genius.Lets start building these association pyramids as soon as possible.
Anon above doesn't realize that if Magic were given div 1 + ABL team that it would attract players from other clubs that have been overlooked for ever+ better coaches who live locally.What a tool!
anon
Years ago
Attract other players to magic from where - you have got to be kidding.
Magic the more you comment the more it belittles you. So you suggest you be better equipped than West the powerhouse with tradition and the Warriors who kick you all over the court in every grade after Bearcats rip you. Please so Div 1 status and you become experts overnight - please share your wisdom with all other strugglers.
I personally know a few clubs where a lot of players/coaches think that their coaching directors are WAN---s,these people are a defection waiting for a local team to go to.A bus load of div 2 players that are always not in div 1 because somebody's mummy/daddy don't suck up to nobody.Magic welcomes these lepres & we will heal their wounds.
MS
Years ago
Anon 118
think you're the only leper that needs their wounds licked
The stench of corruption has reached to the heavens & god smelleth the sinful ways of clubs,then he releases breath from his nostril & formed a new club free of the stench .He then calleth upon all clean souls to come forth in joining Magic.
Then he senteth an Angel of peace to unite the Lords chosen together so that they may be a force from StClair.
Anon
Years ago
Sorry to have joined this thread late but I almost choked on my coffee today when I saw Western Magic listed in the u18 boys schedule on Sporting Pulse. Seems they have replaced Norwood 3?
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