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Wayne
Two years ago

#29817

3 second rule HELP!!!!

Coaching last night.

Had an opposition player camped in the key way (may have seen the tent come out).

I asked the umpire why it wasn't called 3 seconds. The ball was at the top of the key.

He replied 3 sec is an advantage rule and he was to no advantage to his team.

I replied it was to his teams advantage as he was pulling one of my defenders into the key way and freeing up their outside shots.

Is 3 sec an advantage rule?

If so how would anyone be able to judge that advantage?

Have I got the rule completely wrong?

Thank you for your help in advance as this is doing my head in!

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MJ @ Super
Two years ago
10:15 2 Nov 12

Reply #385572

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

Not an advantage rule, although the rule is "more than 3 seconds" so quite often the ref count is going to be considerably slower than a coach/player who wants it called.

A good ref would use voice and talk the player out of the key so as to avoid making the call if the ball is on the perimeter

Of course if the ball is on the outside and the big has been in for more than 3 seconds, then it should be called




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Anonymous
Two years ago
10:17 2 Nov 12

Reply #385573

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

How do you stop them from getting an offensive rebound when they are able to maintain position?


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alexkrad
Two years ago
10:28 2 Nov 12

Reply #385574

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

Sounds like another crappy ref, seems legit!


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3
Two years ago
10:28 2 Nov 12

Reply #385575

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

This has been a problem for about 2 years now in men's comp. You get massive units camping in key and then they have front position for offensive rebound and easy put back. The umpires do not want listen, are not interested in listening. This is a problem with many refs today they are not willing to have a constructive conversion. An issue too with most of the rule book is it open to interpretation. Therefore one ref will call the 3 sec rule as explained. Another will call as 3 sec in key no matter what is happening. So where do we go from here? No where, no one listens, will just keep playing with silly interpretations, more yelling, more frustration by players and ref,and rather than getting along, will continue to hate each other. Awesome isn't it!


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BALLER#3
Two years ago
10:41 2 Nov 12

Reply #385577

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

There are so many bad refs in the social side of basketball it's not funny, the other day we ha goal tending called twice when a player brushed the net with his hand after the shot had bounced away from the ring. Then two weeks later we lose the grandfinal because someone grabbed the ring flicking the ball away and out of the ring. No call for the most obvious goal tend I have ever seen in my life...


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Naph
Two years ago
11:54 2 Nov 12

Reply #385583

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/FIBA/ruleRegu/p/openNodeIDs/897/selNodeID/897/baskOffiRule.html

Art. 22 Violations
22.1 Definition
A violation is an infraction of the rules.
22.2 Penalty
The ball shall be awarded to the opponents for a throw-in at the place nearest to the infraction, except directly behind the backboard, unless otherwise stated in the rules.

Art. 26 Three seconds
26.1 Rule
26.1.1 A player shall not remain in the opponents' restricted area for more than three (3) consecutive seconds while his team is in control of a live ball in the frontcourt and the game clock is running.
26.1.2 Allowances must be made for a player who:
• Makes an attempt to leave the restricted area.
• Is in the restricted area when he or his team-mate is in the act of shooting and the ball is leaving or has just left the player's hand(s) on the shot for a field goal.
• Dribbles in the restricted area to shoot for a field goal after having been there for less than three (3) consecutive seconds.
26.1.3 To establish himself outside the restricted area, the player must place both feet on the floor outside the restricted area.

My understanding of the above is that you are correct. The offensive team is getting an advantage just by having a player in the key, which changes your defense. Regardless, a violation is a violation and should be called.

Download the rules or ask your competition for a copy or reference of the rules your referees are meant to adhere to. Take it up with your referee co-ordinator or similar if they don't adhere to those rules.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:22 2 Nov 12

Reply #385586

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

It's a BSA directive it's anothe way of BSA dirtying SA's quality of basketball, the advantage theory is BSA guided directed, in other words if the player is not gaining advantage or not being defended let it go... creates lazy D and lazy Refs..

Fail


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Naph
Two years ago
12:30 2 Nov 12

Reply #385587

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

I'm from WA, but even from here I can tell that's a terrible directive :P


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:56 2 Nov 12

Reply #385593

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

Any offensive player in the key is gaining an advantage purely on the premise that they have to draw a defender and are in a prime rebounding spot, i guess if nobody defends them you could argue they haven't gained an advantage until the split second they receive position of the ball so to me 3 seconds should be called every time.

The other point that should be made is you can't call 3 seconds until the ball has entered the front court and been there for 3 seconds so after a field goal technically a player can be in the key for 5+8+3 = 16 seconds: (5 seconds to in-bound + 8 seconds in the back court + the 3 seconds) before its a violation.


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Freddy
Two years ago
15:45 2 Nov 12

Reply #385624

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

It's not a bloody BSA directive you moron!

It is lack of referee education that has caused this referee to not understand the rule.

The advantage/disadvantage or offensive threat principles, are taught Australia wide, however if you don't have the correct education processes in place, the message is often 'Chinese whispered' and lost in translation.

The referee was incorrect, however im sure speaking to the court supervisor would have helped.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
15:56 2 Nov 12

Reply #385629

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

Any idea who that refereewas and where was it heldt and at social or district game


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Wayne
Two years ago
17:09 2 Nov 12

Reply #385642

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

Thanks everyone I did ring the umpire boss and he was with me. The game was in the country so no need to call BSA!

Funny fact is I used to be his school teacher years ago.

Thank u so much I knew you wouldn't let me down


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Anonymous
Two years ago
17:12 2 Nov 12

Reply #385643

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

Umm Freddy your saying it's a BA directive? Still pretty sure the BSA interpretation of that directive is what the referee's and umpires are calling..


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Anonymous
Two years ago
20:20 2 Nov 12

Reply #385664

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

The rule is about advantage. If the big guy camps in the key then so what. They arent gaining an advantage. If the big guy gets the ball or helps once the ball gets into the key, 3 seconds. Plus as already pointed out, it is MORe than 3seconds.


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Very Old
Two years ago
21:22 2 Nov 12

Reply #385669

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

anon #385664


you are clearly not a coach,

This is the type of stupid interpretation that comes and goes over the years - there was a spate of this in Geralton WA's easter carnival in ( believe it or not ) 1977.

I was a player coach (point guard). Called a time out and politely asked what was going on - The referes explained to me that they had been instructed that 3 seconds was an "advantage call" and they would only call it if the ball got passed into the camping player.

I then just asked if the 30 sec shot clock, team possesion possesion and thus the 3 second call were all still reset when the shot left the players hands ( that was the rull back then) they said yes - no three second call after ther ball left the shoters hand.

Said fine.

Subbed on my 2 centers and 2 PF's ,( 3 x 6'6" and one at 6' 8" ) which was huge in those days. and I dribbled arround for 20 seconds while they set up a full shoulder - to - shoulder "box" under the rim and in the centre of the zone, and then I let fire from what would have been 3pt teriotory if that had existed then.

after 6 possesions we were 14 points to the good, I lucked 1 shot for 2 and the other 5 were monstered by our rebounders and put back with 2 offensive fouls from behind for 2 bounus points.

The crowd ( such as it was ) - was not happy

I called a time out, called the other coach over and he and the refs and I all agreed that we would go back to calling 3 seconds the "old" way for the rest of the game.

Can't remember who won.




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Very Old
Two years ago
21:26 2 Nov 12

Reply #385671

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

I should add that 3 of my "shots" were air-balls ;( came down almost next to the ring !!


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Anonymous
Two years ago
08:02 3 Nov 12

Reply #385690

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

The concept of "advantage" has become nothing but an excuse for crappy reffing. It is a blight on the game. Rules should be a constant & they should be consistently enforced, not ignored on the whim of a whistle blower.


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ant
Two years ago
08:04 3 Nov 12

Reply #385691

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

If you are a tall player the 3 second rule really is 3 seconds, but if you are short the ref will let you stay in there for close to 8 seconds.

Another rule that disadvantages tall players. Same goes for fouls - need to be belted to get a foul, while the small players get touched its a foul.


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Clapped Out Hack
Two years ago
09:15 3 Nov 12

Reply #385694

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

Don't say that you will start the 'Sook' comments again from the garden gnomes.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:48 5 Nov 12

Reply #386003

re: 3 second rule HELP!!!!

Just holla like ya been shot on your way up to the basket and the poor defender who is solid in his silo will get fouls all day.


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