An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 1:05 pm, Mon 24 Nov 2014 | Posts: 524,927 | Last 7 days: 996

Dunk Basketball Uniforms   Plus 2 Clothing is an Australian owned and operated street-wear specialist. Tall clothing designed by tall people.

Mick
Last year

#30630

Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Cats are hosting the Crocs tonight, tipping off at 6:30 local time.

Crocs haven't won in Perth in a looong time, but Gary Ervin is on a tear, having averaged 23.8 ppg since Luke Nevill arrived 7 games ago.

Townsville is probably too shallow to get this, especially on the road when the nerves and effort-problems of the second unit seem to render them entirely ineffective.

Perth will monster them on the boards, no matter which way this game goes. Every one of their guys goes after every rebound, and they all go hard.

Townsville has the edge at the 1 and 5 spots, but Perth gets them everywhere else, especially with the second unit.

Report this topic


 

Mystro
Last year
08:20 25 Jan 13

Reply #400670

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Neville is going to have a tough job keeping Knight off the boards. Is Jacob Holmes playing?


Report this post



alexkrad
Last year
08:40 25 Jan 13

Reply #400674

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

If anyone in the Crocs starting line up gets into foul trouble it will be game over. Otherwise should be a pretty good game.

Wildcats by 6


Report this post



Cats82
Last year
10:05 25 Jan 13

Reply #400687

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Im just excited watch ervin in real life! Awsome player! Hope it will be a good game, think the crocs will hang around all game. Intresting to c how carter will fit in, perth have every postion covered, u got redhage, tovey and carter, then throw in bartlet n trueman. Thats a starters 5 in an other team let alone a bench. Crocs havnt got a bench, danger are the cedar bros, they catch fire it will be tuf! Perth at hm in this 1


Report this post



Mystro
Last year
10:14 25 Jan 13

Reply #400693

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

which team that wishes to finish in the top 6 let alone 4 would have Truman and Bartlett starting for them?


Report this post



Mick
Last year
10:24 25 Jan 13

Reply #400695

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Holmes is out until around playoff time I think.


Report this post



Nike Al
Last year
10:28 25 Jan 13

Reply #400697

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Does anyone know if Wagstaf is playing? If he is playing cats by 15 points if not cats by 5 points


Report this post



UP North
Last year
11:06 25 Jan 13

Reply #400701

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Tovey & Wagstaff out?


Report this post



Mystro
Last year
11:07 25 Jan 13

Reply #400702

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

thanks Mick, that will make things a whole lot tougher for the Crocs imo


Report this post



The Situation
Last year
12:00 25 Jan 13

Reply #400713

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Both Tovey and Wagstaff are expected to play.


Report this post



Mick
Last year
12:26 25 Jan 13

Reply #400714

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Hinder has really stepped up since Holmes has gone down though. Plays really well alongside Nevill. I won't bother sifting through the NBL's horribly inacessible statistical records, but off the top of my head he's average about 10 and 6 since Jake went down: way above what he was getting for the season. I was very critical of his lack of effort in particular in the first part of the season (ie. the one thing that you can personally control), but he is diving on loose balls again and contesting plays now like he used to.

For my money, the Crocs play better on the offensive end without Holmes' iffy shot selection and streaks of shoot-first mentality that sometimes rear their head. He got into some baaaad habits during our losing streak that he didn't quite shake even after we started winning.

We miss his rebounding oh-so-dearly, but we don't miss him thinking he is a scorer when he simply isn't.

Holmes shooting long jumpers when we have:

a). better shooters who are just that "extra pass" away;
b). Luke Nevill parked under the rack; and
c). the most potent offensive force in the league in Gary Ervin,

will cost you ball games in this league.

Also, the obvious depth thing: starting Hinder means Ben Allen is the only big off the bench. And we all know what that means...

Nevill is an absolute professional and I love his game but rebounding isn't his strong point.

Have no idea how this game will go, but you would have to tip Perth. Townsville are hard to gauge until after this Perth matchup.


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
13:18 25 Jan 13

Reply #400726

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Ever since Woolpert has taken over Townsville they've struggled vs Perth.


Report this post



The Situation
Last year
13:26 25 Jan 13

Reply #400729

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Pretty sure they struggled for the majority of time that Gleeson was in charge too.


Report this post



UP North
Last year
13:47 25 Jan 13

Reply #400738

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

agree^^^

Rusty's stats:
With Jacob in the lineup, Rusty averaged 5.3ppg 3.1rpg in 17:15~ mins
Without Jacob, Rusty is averaging 6.5 & 5.8rpg in 23:30~ mins


Report this post



Triton 95
Last year
13:52 25 Jan 13

Reply #400739

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Can't believe Im saying this but as a Hawks fan I want the Cats to win, If the Croc's drop this game Its probably curtains for them this season. This will mean 4th spot and the last playoff spot will be a race in 3, Tigers, Kings or Hawks.


Report this post



UP North
Last year
13:54 25 Jan 13

Reply #400742

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

PS - Per 40mins with Holmes 12.3 & 7.2, without 11.1 & 9.9

the rebounding has been the biggest thing he has brough to the table. Another big factor, of course, is Luke Nevill.


Report this post



Mick
Last year
13:56 25 Jan 13

Reply #400744

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Yep. Wildcats have owned Townsville for longer than Woolpert's tenure.

I believe the last time they won in Perth might have even been that monster game (ten [!] threes) John Rillie had to knock them out of the playoffs back when Peter Crawford was a Wildcat. Some time ago.

The usual script is: Perth gets physical early, Townsville fights through it for the early goings and then the Cats blow it out sometime late in the second quarter and end up winning by 20+.

The difference this year of course being that you can't trap when Townsville plays their Norton/Ervin backcourt, and that the uptempo game that Perth has used in the past to forcibly enter Townsville's behind is now the Crocs' bread and butter.

However, teams still have enormous success defensively against Townsville's starting five when they pressure the ball away from Ervin and into PC's butter hands as a ball carrier and then double him -- to the tune of multiple turnovers.


Report this post



The Situation
Last year
13:59 25 Jan 13

Reply #400745

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Cats have been using less of the suffocating full court press of late. Its been used, not as aggressively, but they're jumping in to their match-up zone which is clinical.


Report this post



Cats82
Last year
14:02 25 Jan 13

Reply #400747

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Whats wrong wit bartlet or trueman? At least we havnt got pensioners on our bench that just cry after call! Then granddad lemanis is a tosser! How he hasnt been ejected is beyound me! See how they go against the top dogs next wk!


Report this post



The Situation
Last year
14:06 25 Jan 13

Reply #400749

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Wow!


Report this post



Mick
Last year
15:19 25 Jan 13

Reply #400764

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

And the unprovoked overreaction of the week goes to...


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
15:40 25 Jan 13

Reply #400770

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Cats82 "Whats wrong wit bartlet or trueman who were development players that NZ released? At least we havnt got veterans and international players on our bench that just come on cold and knock down clutch 3's! Then lemanis has 2 consecutive championships! How he hasnt been named boomers Coach is beyound me like most other things! See how they go against the team is second place next wk!"


fixt and 3peat


Report this post



Mystro
Last year
15:41 25 Jan 13

Reply #400771

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

that ^ was me ;)


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
15:49 25 Jan 13

Reply #400775

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Well someone's certainly fired up!


Report this post



Wildcats
Last year
16:28 25 Jan 13

Reply #400783

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Got hot one game!!!! Go count sheeps mate!!! 27yrs in a row in the playoffs, if lemanis is the coach then we are gona get sorbent as a sponser so his got plenty or tissues to wipe him self up!!!


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
16:46 25 Jan 13

Reply #400786

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Oh bloody hell, trash talking, now we're doomed next week. Gonna get karmanatored.


Report this post



Mick
Last year
16:51 25 Jan 13

Reply #400788

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Yeah Mystro, go count sheeps!


Report this post



Mystro
Last year
17:43 25 Jan 13

Reply #400801

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

lmao anything but a sheep joke :facepalm:

hot one game? 16/3 ? Have you forgotten how many times Perth have beaten Adelaide in the past few seasons?
must be the heat


Report this post



Ingles13
Last year
19:18 25 Jan 13

Reply #400817

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Lol perth fans


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
19:22 25 Jan 13

Reply #400819

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Could be worse; we [Cats] could win next week.


Report this post



Cats82
Last year
19:23 25 Jan 13

Reply #400820

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Lol perth fans wish u all have what we got!! Adelaide? U guyz strugle 2 beat the hawks minus the back court! Get over ure self bud!


Report this post



Mick
Last year
20:28 25 Jan 13

Reply #400828

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

It wasn't a sheep joke; it was a sheeps joke.

Delivered with a sense of poise, comedic timing, and razor wit that few are capable of.

Zing, Mystro. Zing.


Report this post



pwned
Last year
22:45 25 Jan 13

Reply #400844

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Call an ambulance


Report this post



Cats82
Last year
23:23 25 Jan 13

Reply #400845

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Ervin watching the tennis! Got out ove jail!


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
02:15 26 Jan 13

Reply #400849

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

See, I said the trash talking would come back and bite us.

That performance would have given us an 'L' in every other city across Australasia. Could not shoot if our lives had depended on it.

0/8 from 3pt in the first quarter!


Report this post



bankedshot
Last year
03:00 26 Jan 13

Reply #400851

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

what happened to this forum. troll paradise or does everyone love to hate. It was a great game. I wish Crocs had have gotten the win though. The perth and NZ one two is getting tiresome. They both need a loss soon.


Report this post



Mick
Last year
06:09 26 Jan 13

Reply #400856

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Is it a bridge too far to say the Crocs are probably the third best team in the league now?

Obviously might not even make playoffs, but Sydney next week will be a battle between two top four teams (in terms of talent and form, not record).

TSV had the two best teams in NZ and Perth well on the ropes and choked it up. Give this team a full season together and the confidence and rhythm that goes along with that and you'd be looking at two Ws.

Or you could look at the other side of the coin, two choking efforts in two weeks points to how bad they really are?


Report this post



Kr
Last year
08:15 26 Jan 13

Reply #400865

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

That's the frustrating thing mick, crocs should have finished off both nz and Perth, but are now in a position where they need to go on a tear against everyone else and get at least 8 of the next 10.
To watch them playing so well but knowing they still have to win so many games just to make the finals sucks. Lets hope we can get the next 5 straight.


Report this post



FM
Last year
08:28 26 Jan 13

Reply #400866

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Felt sorry for the crocs last night. 18 foul shots to 6 and Redhage was a protected species out there.
3 minutes to go in the game and crocs had 8 fouls for the game. Considering crocs were in front for a considerable amount of those minutes. Brad made a mess of that game calling some woefull calls which looked like it disrupted the crew all night.

Great game to watch


Report this post



PeterJohn
Last year
08:41 26 Jan 13

Reply #400867

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Anon #400649 - I don't agree. Perth always shoot badly and continue to win. They routinely shoot in the 30%-40% range and as a team this season are shooting 38%.

I think your comment should have been more along the lines of in most other leagues in the world that would result in not making playoffs.

bankedshot - great game? great finish yes, but hardly a great game. Low skill levels from both teams for most of the game, low scoring, each shot attempt was twice as likely to miss as go in, random foul calling and non calling, players sooking. Not a great advert for the league all around. And the overruling of the unsportmanlike call at the end just underlined the weird concept of sportsmanship that says deliberate fouling is to be encouraged in the last 2 minutes of a game!

I' ll be surprised if Perth crack 11,000 crowds at home for the rest of the minor round with that sort of display.


Report this post



Mick
Last year
09:12 26 Jan 13

Reply #400869

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Perth in Perth are hard to beat because the officiating generally favours them moreso than when other teams play at home. For whatever reason: crowd influence, referee bias, incompetence, or just genuine cooincididence -- it's pretty undeniable.

On top of that they are a great team and have a great crowd.


Report this post



paul
Last year
10:12 26 Jan 13

Reply #400879

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

"I think your comment should have been more along the lines of in most other leagues in the world that would result in not making playoffs."

I imagine a team in almost any league that averages five more o-boards and three less turnovers than their opponents would make the playoffs, especially if they are also the best defensive team in the comp.


Report this post



Mick
Last year
10:20 26 Jan 13

Reply #400883

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Shooting percentages in the NBL as a whole aren't exactly great of late...


Report this post



catsfan
Last year
10:28 26 Jan 13

Reply #400884

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Although the game was very poor last night, the crowd was probably the loudest and the most energetic it has been all season (at least for 4th quarter!)

The atmosphere is what will keep the crowd coming- so although the performance wasnt very good, people will continue to come because of the vibe!


Report this post



paul
Last year
10:39 26 Jan 13

Reply #400887

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

@Mick, absolutely, after r15 every team in the league was shooting between 41-43%, which I think is a direct reflection of how much physicality is allowed.

If you look at games between Cairns, Melbourne and Townsville, who play old-style defence without much disruption and physicality, they are well up on the league average in scoring and shooting %, despite the fact those teams rank 5th, 6th and 8th in the league in scoring.


Report this post



skud
Last year
10:53 26 Jan 13

Reply #400892

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Crowd was amazing to hear over the TV.

The umpiring there was once again confirmed as completely biased. Townsville won that game without the horrible ref's calling what ever they could to get Perth over the line.

Knight should have been called constantly for his "defence" on Neville. Constant grabbing, pulling him away from the basket, pushing. To think a ref can warn him 20 times in a game and not call it is just pathetic.


Report this post



Camel 31
Last year
11:21 26 Jan 13

Reply #400902

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

I don't think I've ever said it .- Refs kept Perth in that game .

A little more Nevill and little less of Ben Alien would have won it , also .

Clarke wouldda liked Tovey's game .




Report this post



The Situation
Last year
12:15 26 Jan 13

Reply #400912

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

For the past three home games, the Cats have had Giersh twice, Vaughan Mayberry, and two other non-Perth refs. So yeah......bias.


Report this post



Mick
Last year
12:42 26 Jan 13

Reply #400915

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

@ situation, as alluded to in my post, it's not necessarily explicit bias. Most likely it's the crowd involvement primarily. Either way it fails the eye test. I remember Townsville used to have a much better home court ref bias when the house was packed and the crowd was into it.

Perth get away with a lot on the road, too, so it can't solely be the crowd thing but probably more than anything respect for a recent champion that everyone has grown accustomed to playing a certain way.


Report this post



Mick
Last year
12:45 26 Jan 13

Reply #400916

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Ben Allen's line speaks for itself:

11 minutes, 1 block, 0 points, 0 rebounds, and goose eggs in EVERY other statistical column.

How a 7 foot man can be on a basketball court for 11 minutes against an undersized frontline and not have at least ONE rebound fall in his lap even by pure accident astounds me on so many levels.




Report this post



The Situation
Last year
13:16 26 Jan 13

Reply #400919

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Mick, the last part of your post is spot on. They play a certain way. Like the Breakers, They're physical, but they're also methodical and well structured. Not saying its right but I can see why the refs "favour" them because they know that an aggressive double team and active hands and holding the pick for a split second longer is part of what they do.

I guess it's highlighted more because at least five other teams in the comp are consistently a shambles on the court and I think the human nature of the refs says they aren't going to bail out unstructured teams with foul calls. I'm sure if Anstey had his team well drilled against Perth a week ago, he would have got respect from the officials, instead of playing "5 on 8."


Report this post



Isaac
Last year
13:51 26 Jan 13

Reply #400926

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Ben Allen doesn't even look like he wants to improve out there. Probably even in decline?


Report this post



DB5
Last year
13:56 26 Jan 13

Reply #400927

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Ben Allen doesn't even look like he wants to move out there.


Report this post



Mick
Last year
14:25 26 Jan 13

Reply #400928

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Please, God, please make him have an amazing offseason with Mt Gambier and have the nearby Sixers offer him a contract in good faith.





Report this post



Mystro
Last year
15:26 26 Jan 13

Reply #400941

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

there is an art to making sure you are not where the ball lands every single time.


Report this post



Mick
Last year
17:00 26 Jan 13

Reply #400957

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Exactly, Mystro.

Throw an average bloke out there with a bit of size (say more than 6'4") with no basketball skills whatsoever, but in decent physical shape, then tell him to go and get the ball, and he will come up with it at least once in eleven minutes of time, especially against an undersized opposition frontcourt. He will be atrocious on offense and defense fundamentally but he will at least grab that ball at least once in eleven minutes, I can guarantee it.

I'm not even mad at Ben Allen, what he did was amazing...


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
19:26 26 Jan 13

Reply #400978

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

I guess being at the game makes you one-eyed, haha. Everyone here is complaining about fouls called against Townsville. But the calls that I couldn't comprehend were the Charge called against us when the defender was clearly in motion and one of the fouls being called a shooting foul when his hands were at his ankles just about.

Haven't gotten to watch the game replay though, so may be misinterpreting or remembering wrong.

Just wonder if people are putting too much focus on the USF that was overturned.


Report this post



PeterJohn
Last year
19:57 26 Jan 13

Reply #400981

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

FWIW, Perth average about 18 fouls a game and got called for 11 last night.

Townsville get called for about 18 fouls per game and got called for 17.

Interesting contrast. Perth must have changed their playing style considerably for last night's game.


Report this post



PeterJohn
Last year
20:01 26 Jan 13

Reply #400982

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

paul - yes, Perth do get a lot more offensive boards than their opponents. Partly that's because they have more opportunities. Last night, there were 47 rebounds off missed Perth shots and only 30 rebounds off missed Townsville shots. Perth miss about 43 shots per game. Without checking, I suspect the number for their opponents is substantially lower.

Perth do a good job of getting those offensive rebounds but I suspect their coaches and supporters would rather they hit the shots more often.


Report this post



paul
Last year
21:23 26 Jan 13

Reply #400992

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Haha, Im sure their fans would like them to hit all their shots!

But back to your original comment, almost any team that wins the offensive rebounding and turnover counts as clearly as they do and defends the best in their comp will make the playoffs in pretty much any league, whether they shoot 40% or not.

As for them getting more shot attempts to get more o-boards, how does that come about? It's not luck, it's through dominating the possession areas.


Report this post



PeterJohn
Last year
10:33 28 Jan 13

Reply #401276

re: Crocs @ Wildcats (Fri 25 Jan)

Fair point Paul.


Report this post





 

Reply to this topic

Name Email

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Red 99

Title
Rules: You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players.
Message

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.
 


94Fifty
Goalrilla basketball hoops
Dennis Rodman - Raw and uncensored

Recent Posts

.
.