Brett Maher Court a "toxic" environment
... according to Adam Ballinger.
... according to Adam Ballinger.
07:13 12 Feb 13
And now watch this thread. No one will take responsibility for their own actions and hide behind blaming Clarke and Radford.
07:15 12 Feb 13
No surprises there if some of the carrying on here is any guide.
08:00 12 Feb 13
If such a successful club like Perth all of a sudden had 3 years of being at the bottom of the ladder they would understand and act the same as well.
08:05 12 Feb 13
Sorry but there is never any excuse for poor behavior and regardless of how your team is performing turning on them, especially during/after a game is the height of bad sportsmanship.
If you're not happy write to the club, but don't turn on your own..
08:10 12 Feb 13
Hahaha. Blame the fans - yes Mr. Ballinger, the fans are to blame for 5 years of lacklustre performances, suspect coaching, last quarter fadeouts (of which Mr. Ballinger was on the team for more than a couple).
I've been to 2 games this season (after being a season ticket holder for 5+ years), both early season games, 1 win and 1 frustrating, but acceptable loss where the team at least showed some fight. I have no idea what the crowd's been like since then; but if they're negative, then it's due to to years of poor performance from both players and coaches.
09:01 12 Feb 13
The fans certainly dont help IMO.
Last season when the Hawks went through a lean spell the fans wrote letters to them encouraging them.They filled their locker room with appreciative notes and words.
The 36ers fans chose to boo the team and post personal attacks on this site all lead by the pied piper in the Advertiser.
Think about what that potentially does to a players mindset. We know that the players and the coaches are trying to win. when it doesn't go to plan is it in anyway constructive to put the players and club down.
Do the fans think that other players know this? You bet. It is a factor in trying to recruit players to the club. I personally know one player who wont ever come to Adelaide because " i dont want to have to deal with that shit"
Adelaide fans have been cursed by success.
If i wanted to i could create an argument that Brett Maher wasnt that good, take his stats , twist them about, show that he didnt make finals more than he did etc etc....if you look for the negatives in life you will surely find them. if you chose to look at the positives you will find then too.
The bar and expectation is very high. Again perhaps only Perth starts every season with the expectation of a grand final or it is a bad season. There has been a lean period for a long time. It was 18 years between Boston winning titles. The Crocs have been in the NBL for over 20 years and never won it.
Success is extremely hard to achieve in any sporting endeavour.
People have bagged Dunlap on this forum as a bad coach. He took the 36ers to the GF and now is an NBA head coach. That reads pretty good to most other NBL clubs , but not Adelaide.
09:18 12 Feb 13
I swear our coaching staff have been trying to lose us games for the past three seasons! Winning? ain't nobody got time for that!
09:19 12 Feb 13
There is no excuse for bad sportsmanship at games, against the opposition or your own team.
The reason fans are frustrated by this team is that there has been no improvement over 3 years!!!!
In fact you could argue the team is playing worse since they have more talent than the previous 2 season.
To be honest it seemed like the players were going through the motions at the last few games I have gone to.
Can't tell you if that is due to the position on the ladder, the bizarre coaching habits or the crowd.
Perhaps a few of them have injuries, cause they are playing much worse then at the start of the season.
If the team was going up and down the ladder each year the fans would be reasonable happy. Some sort of light at the end of the tunnel would be good.
Even if it is a train, ie getting smashed in the first round of the finals.
But the constant poor play and blowing of major leads has the fan base disillusioned and a feeling of being stuck in Purgatory.
09:22 12 Feb 13
I understand all of that BJF, but you can't condone the performance of the team and the coaches can you?
With the list we have I think the fans would like to see some improvement on previous years, not necessarily win the whole thing but be competitive until the end and maybe win some games.
I think most fans didn't come into this year with a toxic mindset, I believe many were excited by the recruitment done by the club, but to perform so badly (even worse than the two previous poor years) is just heart breaking.
I don't condone booing the team and coaches, but hey those guys are still paying their money, the problem is with the guys not booing, because they are so frustrated they just don't go anymore.
09:30 12 Feb 13
Actually, I disagree with these comments. Talk like that is just a self fulfilling prophecy. You talk about a toxic environment and you create what you desire and what you talk about. It's a good way to psych out your opponent and it's a clever wedge to put between the team and the supporters. I congratulate AB for his subtle plan to create division.
90% of professional sport is between the ears. Failure at a high level is not because you don't necessarily have the skills, most failure is because an athlete doesn't believe in themselves or has been psyched out by their opponent. They start doubting themselves instead of believing in themselves. They start focussing on the downside instead of the next opportunity. The missed shot is history, the most important thing is your next shot.
The comments are valid in so much as they expose the risk that doubt in the minds of players is toxic and gives the opposition an edge.
I have seen some fantastic basketball by the Sixers at home this season, and seen some shocking basketball. The difference that stands out between the good and the bad is that when the Sixers are playing good basketball, they are believing in themselves, keeping it simple and taking calculated risks. When they are playing bad basketball, it seems as though no-one is willing to take a risk or be aggressive, or believe in themselves. The cancer of doubt has taken over.
At the risk of firing the first shot in the Marty bash, when times are tough, inspirational words are needed, not complicated plans on a whteboard. The Sixers have been up at half time in most of their games this season, they have taken it to the best in the league and been the thorn in the side of teams. But, when the momentum starts to swing away, it's time for inspirational words in a timeout to keep the momentum on the right side. It's too late once the momentum has swung and the pendulum of doubt has whacked you in the guts, a lead has been lost, and they are now in the box seat. When that has happened, trying to get control back is like trying to catch a falling knive while balancing on a yoga ball. Panic sets in.
Is the Arena a toxic environment? For opposition teams it should be, for refs who make dud decisions it should be, for the Sixers? No, it should be a place where they are Kings of the World for 40 mins. There's one home game left this season, if it is a toxic environment, then let's make it a toxic environment for the Taipans.
09:33 12 Feb 13
Might have something to do with the fact people at AA tend to turn quicker than other venues....whcih probably says moe about lack of basketball knowleadge at other venues but hey he does make a point.
09:36 12 Feb 13
Sure fans should behave, but from what ive seen no one has done anything too bad, a few boos and heckling is just part of sport.
How do/would Crows or Collingwood fans act after 3 years of losing, they dont act any better, in many cases worse and thats 2 of the biggest clubs in the AFL.
LA Lakers, would they tolerate what the 36ers fans have? NO WAY, fans would be far worse. Mike Brown got less than 1 and a half seasons before he has been booted, Clarke has had around 3 seasons with far worse/more frustrating performances, and people are surprised we are frustrated.
The angry fan base is a passionate fan base, which is what you want, the fact 5,000 people rock up after the performances of the team over the past 12 weeks is a testimant to the fans, we are just frustrated from years of losing which most beleive is a result of poor coaching and no changes been made in that area by the club. Im sure Ballinger enjoyed the cheers and admiration of the passionate 36ers fan base after a win, so he cant have it both ways, look at how Perth fans get after opposing teams.
What would you want a fan base, who are not really passionate and are just happy to have a team, dont really get all that interested/emotional win or lose,
passionate fan base that wants/expects the best every season, supports the club in bad times (ie a 5000 crowd for a bottom place team) but voices there opinions too, they will be harsh when you lose, but give you huge congratulations when you win and ride the emotional roller coaster with the team?
I take the passionate fan base every time.
If players and coaches cant handle a bit of crowd heckling than maybe the sports/entertainment industry isnt for them. After all its us 'toxic fans' who essentially pay there wages. Im of the opinion thay players, coaches, officals should never bag the fans, as without them they dont have a job, if the fans are complaining there is usually a reason, so listen and make the changes.
Ask yourself this, if you went to a cafe for a meal and it tasted bad and you got sick, you would do 1 of 2 things, 1. never go back, 2. complain and ask for changes to be made so it doesnt happen again in some cases people demand for a refund. If 36ers fans ask for there money back or dont rock up again then the club dies, we dont want that so we complain and ask management to fix things, what is so toxic about that? its normal business, if anything the club/coaches are at fault for not listening to there customers and making adjustments that all of us can see are required, this also kills businesses/clubs.
09:38 12 Feb 13
Agree with all BJF said. My thoughts are that if you can take the good you can definately take the bad and we have been fortunate to experience fantastic times and whilst this is a tough period good times will come , I have no doubt.Unfortunately the armchair fans forget that players/coaches are humans and make errors and with social media they definately talk and could definately see it harm our prospects going forward with recruitment of players , coaches and the like so maybe what our assistant coach is spot on...
09:43 12 Feb 13
The so called 'toxic' environment is a direct result of losing for the last 3 years which falls on the coaches.
It is not right to put the club and players down but when their is no direction on offence or defence, randon sub patterns; the sacking of a good guy in CJ and a shocking appointment in SC, the lack of accountability and ownership by the coaches for the teams situation over the last 3 years what do you expect?
09:53 12 Feb 13
I think after having close to 10 seasons without having any chance of making a real splash in the finals any supporter base that had been used to success would grow frustrated.
10:01 12 Feb 13
10 plus years of not making a splash Anon means we are now used to losing....!
10:05 12 Feb 13
Its getting very tiring the constant list of reasons people seem to think excuses their poor behavior and sportsmanship...
10:17 12 Feb 13
Jimmy Buckets. You miss the point. We are members. We don't own them and have a right to treat them how we want
Nobody said losing is fun but the point of the article is the you can feel the fans turn on the team during a game and that doesn't help.
They are human. It is emotive but it is sport. Losing or being frustrated does not mean its ok to hack on those we are supposed to support. That just helps the opposition.
Why do people on here hide behind the coaches lacklustre performance in regards to their own role.
Jimmy if you think you own them and you pay their wages then where is your responsibility to support and assist them positively. That would be good business.
And if you we're in a cafe would you talk to they manager about your poor food or get all the patrons in the cafe to start hacking the chefs.
10:27 12 Feb 13
10:31 12 Feb 13
Last home game I went to had a really supportive crowd despite the loss. Reckon I heard all of one person out of thousands making loud comments about the home team, and they may have been a fan of the visitors.
If Adelaide is so toxic, should the road results be better instead? They're the worst in the league.
I'm not there to boo my team or needle my own players or coaches and I think the majority are the same. Media coverage and forums exist around the world for sporting teams losing games.
I'd rather people didn't speak with such vitriol or boo and the like, but are we really going to look at the headless-chicken strategy out there and now wonder if maybe it's caused by some complaining fans? Does that toxic crowd only show up after half-time when the team is up double digits? Does it travel on the road? Is it not there whenever we play Perth?
10:36 12 Feb 13
Bottom line - you can't have a club without fans.
You can have a club without certain players or coaches. They are expendable. There are always new players and coaches to be found. Annoy the fan base and there will be no club.
When I pay good money for a product, I expect to get value for it. I don't think any true basketball fan can say there has been any real value for $ in the past 3 years.
No team can win every year. Anyone with half a brain understands this. But there's a difference between losing while heading in the right direction on and off the court and not improving at all in 3 years due to inept coaching, poor recruiting, bad motivating and out of touch management.
Ive been going to games for many years. Some of those years have been with losing records. I still went to the games and enjoyed 90% of them and enjoyed the overall experience. I can no longer say that. The team is boring, the coaching is boring and the recruiting is boring. To an educated basketball fan, the overall product is poor.
The coaching staff had a chance to change it up this year after 2 years of delivering a poor product. Instead they did the same old. Alienated an import that could have been valuable, recruited the worst import to ever wear a Sixers jersey, kept with the highly structured non flexible offence, failed to motivate under achieving players and used head scratching substitutions.
Obviously fan's frustrations can be taken too far, but I don't blame any passionate fan for expressing displeasure with how the last 3 years have gone. We don't just have a losing team, we have a train wreck.
10:45 12 Feb 13
Kwest. Maybe people like yourself who made some valid points should stop putting yourselves up on an untouchable pedestal.
Don't annoy fans because you won't survive. As long as people think I can do what they want because they can't survive without me but stuff the rest of them we never move forward as an organisation.
Speaking of brains. Do you really think coaches players management etc dont hate this situation as well. Clearly things affect decisions other than keeping people happy and I am sure we don't know all those things.
But to say I pay so I deserve better and act you are the only one who cares is not fair or realistic to the many people I am sure are trying to fix things.
This place should be scary for opposition to come to not our own.
10:53 12 Feb 13
Fans treating people poorly? i was at the last game, i personally didnt hear anyone say anything to a player/coach that was offensive, it may have happened, but would have been only by a small portion of the crowd.
I dont think fans should abuse players, but heckling about the game is the same as cheering, aslong as not abusive about things like race, religion family. people in the sport/entertainment industry have to accept both imo, i dont personally heckle, but am of the opinion if the players/coaches can take the applause of the crowd, they can also take the boos, etc, aslong as it obviously doesnt cross the line, which i saw no evidence of. Cant have your cake and eat it to.
If people are going over the line and abusing the players/coaches well i think the individuals should be identified and removed by security, as no one deserves that, but basketball related heckling is fair game, go to any sports event in the world, it happens, especially by the fans of the losing team.
Go to any Crows game you will see the exact same thing, they are one of the bogger/successful clubs of the AFL.
Oposition players cop it, its part of the game, obviously aslong as it doesnt cross the line, its part of sport. Go to a wildcats game and see how they get into the opposition.
The fact that 5000 people paid $30 to watch a game that was televised on FTA when most would have seen the 2nd half collapse happen before the game even started and try and be supportive of the team is a testimant to the crowd,we cheered very loudly when the team did things well, we have a fantastic fan base, some other clubs would love to have the 36ers fan base.
Many other clubs with our past 3-5 seasons would be getting crowds of less than 3,000 and basically be dead.
To me the article should read 'the 36ers thank the 5000+ who came to the game, despite a dissapointing season' and have quotes along the lines, of thank you for supporting us, we are doing the best we can to improve and change in all areas and give you the entertainig/successful team you are desperatly wanting.
11:03 12 Feb 13
Anon, 'This place should be scary for opposition to come to not our own'
Ballinger is an opposing player now, so you are ok with us making it difficult for him? Whats the argument then? no one abused/crossed the line him from what i heard.
If anything Ballinger should realise this and be greatful for the 36ers, we did pay him top dollar for basically nothing last season, sure due to injury, but he wasnt complaining about that was he? again cant have your cake and eat it. I saw no evidence of anyone crossing the line towards Ballinger or any Tiger, Flynn and Scott were jeered the most and they try to stir the crowd at times, so it goes both ways imo, and it was never anything more than a basic boo. If anything they seemed to get motivated/enjoy the fan interaction.
I thought the crowd has treated the 36ers and opponents generally very well, have never heard an abusive coment myself, im sure they happen, but in the minority, so you cant bag the whole crowd for a few individuals who may cross the line.
11:09 12 Feb 13
It's not simply good enough that people are 'trying' to fix things anymore. There has been 2+ years of 'trying'. Myself and many other fans can see problems that are staring us all in the face every game that are fixable regardless of what is going on behind the scenes.
Employing SC is not 'trying', it is ineptitude. I heard he was the import they were going with a couple of weeks before they announced it and looked him up on google. I don't profess to be some master scout, but it really didn't take an expert to know that it would end badly. In what universe does a short, skinny guy putting up bad numbers in a Belarussian league help our team??
Obviously everyone involved with the team hates losing, but its a cut throat world we live in, generally based on results. If you don't deliver in the work place the company you work for hits an all-time low while you are in charge, then you are most likely to be fired.. probably without a lot of love.
Im not going to sit here and pat everyone on the back for trying hard for 3 years. That would happen if the team is heading in the right direction. Can anyone honestly say they are? If the players/coaches cant take a bit of tough love when they're clearly failing in many areas then they really should take up a different vocation.
Sport is pretty simple. If you're doing the right things with the right people, eventually you will get more wins than losses. Chance comes into it, but not over a period of 3 years with countless dud imports and under achieving players. 13 losses out of 14 games is a direct result of doing the wrong things with the wrong people. I'm not going to pat that on the back and say 'Good Try'.
11:25 12 Feb 13
Just his wife talikng... balls is a good dude.
11:27 12 Feb 13
I know the team would rather be on the Road and that's not a good thing.
And i think while we sit back and let a few Tools yell out abuse at our own team we are part of the Problem, time to show some Ball's and tell these few clown to F##@ Off if they don’t like it.
11:39 12 Feb 13
I've seen a number of times players coming into the race cop and earful from a supporter - one recently was directed at Weigh.
I agree that fans get frustrated, but I still think abusing players and or coaches really has no place.
Isaac with the road woes is it that the opposition has the full support of the crowd and gives them that extra lift?
12:14 12 Feb 13
As Sixers fan:
I am sick of watching the opposition show the type of hustle, desperation and dedication to defence that the Sixers lack.
I am sick of the lack of fire and emotion shown by the coaching group - and no accountability for results
I am sick of a stagnant offence in the second half of games where team mates are looking at each other and then forcing poor shots.
The recent visits by Wollongong & Melbourne saw 2 desperate teams who were vocal, energised and put everything on the line. All we get is Big Red complaining to the officials after every play, DJ tugging his shorts, Cadee launching ill-advised threes, Gibson not being aggressive on offence etc etc.
12:21 12 Feb 13
Agreed, players shouldnt cop abuse like that,
If its 'Come on (player) grab a rebound and hit a 3' or something like that, then thats fair game,
if it goes over the top and is '(player) you are a (insult/expeltive)....' type thing then that is wrong and over the top and un called for. Security/management should deal with these fans.
my point is that its the minority of fans who do it, players should be thick skinned enough to cop a basic heckle or boo that is basketball related, but nothing over the top,
Therefore the overall fan base is not toxic, just frustrated. Fans shouldnt abuse players/coaches, but have the right to voice displeasure imo, just the same as we have the right to voice our joy and pleasure in there performance. Just needs to be done in the right way. Then its upto the team/management to give us a reason to be more positive, and if they do make the right change and turn things around or show good signs we would be.
I say the majority of the 36ers fan base is just passionate not toxic, obviously there may be a couple of fans who go over the top. Most players from what i have seen/heard are treated fairly well and mostly well liked, its the coaches who seem to cop the most frustration as most of us are frustrated with things like game plan/rotations/import selection, but again usually not anything over the top.
Even though fans rode Smyth and Ninnis pretty hard at the end, alteast they tried to deal with it, Smyth tried to stay up beat and talk up the team hoping the fans would get behind them and continued to work and try things to turn things around, just bringing in Hodge helped this largely in his last season.
Ninnis would take full responsibility for the teams performance and you could see he cared and it was eating at him, fans still saw his flaws and voiced them, but we respected that atleast he was passionate and cared, you could also tell Smyth cared aswell. Had Gilchrist not gone down, we probably wouldnt have got the wooden spoon, not saying Ninnis would have been kept or should have been, but its pretty hard to win when your star import goes down and you dont replace him, he still didnt seem to blame that publicly either from memory.
The current coaches seem to have a 'its not our fault, get off our back attitude' which is what many dont like as we see it as not caring, they probably do care, but just dont send the right message. The classic example is the tech foul , the current coaches just denied it, Ninnis would have been like 'im responsible for all on court issues, so i take full responsibility' which the fans respect much more.
12:48 12 Feb 13
Feel the fans turn on the team? What the hell does that mean?
Did we turn on the team when we choked against New Zealand?
What are we meant to do?
So the team comes out, plays terrible basketball in the second half giving the crowd nothing to cheer about and the crowd has some how turned on the team and is responsible.
I don't know if I have read a bigger load of rubbish.
Isaac is spot on. Is it our fault we have the worst road record in the league over the past 3 years?
Is it Isaac's fault for having this website. Is it Boti Nagy's fault for being the pied piper?
What a load of crap. Boti Nagy could have done what a lot of sports journalists do and fingered Clarke until he was out of town to ensure he had direct access for quotes, inside info and the like.
However, he wrote what needed to be written. It was not written with the benefit of hind sight but before we lost 14 of 15. Guess what? He was right. We would have been better served by sacking Clarke earlier in the season. But we didn't.
BJF I respect what you write on this forum and also respect that you have given probably 10 times what any other poster has in financial terms to the 36ers but I don't agree with what you posted above.
No one is twisting numbers or stats to suit their arguments. The 36ers record the past three seasons is terrible. To write what you did is just arguing that mediocrity ought to be accepted. That surely can't be the culture that you would want at the 36ers.
Surely you do not approach business on that basis.
I understand why anyone involved in the hiring of Clarke would be defensive but his failure to perform the job in a competent manner is surely proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
It is nothing that SOS ought to be embarrassed about. Coaching appointment mistakes happen in every professional league. The mistake here was failing to accept a mistake was made and take steps to rectify the situation.
How the fans who still bother to turn up can be blamed is beyond me. Just another PR disaster.
I guess if I was as incompetent at my job as Clarke then I would prefer playing in front of 100 fans than embarrassing myself in front of 5,000.
I guess that is the current culture that represents the 36ers under SOS. Mediocrity is tolerated.
12:53 12 Feb 13
I always felt Adelaide was a venue where a visiting team could generate negative energy from the fans if they played well. It used to be a lot harder to do 10-15 years ago when the team was good but it was still there. Now it is hugely magnified.
13:03 12 Feb 13
I got the impression of the 36ers fastest scorer being the most popular with the crowd , but limited minutes , while the league's worst player for the team's +/- plays the most minutes every game in a losing team .
13:05 12 Feb 13
Hey dont get me wrong, it is frustrating seeing your expectations and hopes smashed down.
It is frustrating seeing players you hope to make an impact come in and play well not
The players , coaches and admin have heard the boos. They know what that means. They know what the crowd wants and it is exactly what they want too, and that is to be successful.
Right now it just sucks- loosing i think 10 games by 2 shots or less this season shows this squad isnt that far off. They could be playing better, we know that and they know that.
Everyone makes mistakes coaches , admin and players. heck even the cheerleaders stuff a routine from time to time.
What i hope is that now we know that the coaches are supported til seasons end is that people back the team and the effort these guys are putting in.
13:09 12 Feb 13
Clarke and radford have constantly shown a lack of passion and accountability. They haven't adjusted once and changed up the game plan. Name one instance where they've yelled this year. At least ninnis showed accountability
13:15 12 Feb 13
BJF. You did it again by stating we have lost close games. That is just accepting mediocrity. That might be the SOS way but it is not the 36ers I remembered watching from 1987 until the Clarke years.
You make it sound like the fans have unrealistic expectations. I could have read your post wrong. However, if I didn't, why were expectations of finals unrealistic.
If you assembled a 15 man Boomers squad from the current NBL there would be a very good argument that Gibson, Weigh, Creek, Johnson and Schenscher would be in that squad. Potentially Petrie and Cadee as well.
The team has under achieved and is getting worse and not better.
13:17 12 Feb 13
I said it in the 'Radford Quote' thread, when you're the face of the organization, expect to cop all of the abuse.
Granted, there is a level of abuse which is downright over-the-top and shouldn't be uttered by anyone, but just accept the fact that it happens.
As a club, you can't influence the personality of your fans, you can only influence their support. That comes from winning games and proving your worth on the court and in public.
As for the 'Toxic' environment, why would anyone complain about how hard it is to play in Adelaide? If you can handle the pressure of playing at Perth Arena in front of 11,000 die-hard fans who are all against you, then clearly playing in front of 5000 Sixers fans who know their basketball should be a cakewalk right?
As a 'knowledgable fan', I am of this opinion: Regardless of what sport or league you are in, you as either a coach or a player are paid a huge amount of money to play a sport for six months of the year. The more you get paid, I would assume means you are actually skilled; not only in the fundamentals of said sport, but also capable of handling the pressure of close games, hostile crowds and public appearances.
When you're running a 2/3 zone against a perimeter shooting team for more than a half of basketball and wonder why you lost by 11 points, it shouldn't be a surprise.
When you're trying to rebound a ball and you aren't attempting to create a safety zone by boxing out to allow either you or another team-mate to get the ball; you shouldn't need to wonder why you were out-rebounded by 15-20 boards.
If players are upset about the fact that 'some' of us fans can actually see blatant holes in your team play and we call you out on it, here's two points to consider:
1) Don't ever consider playing in any league in Europe. I doubt you could handle the death threats and object throwing (knives, bottles etc.)
2) Don't pretend you support the coach. I understand the need to show the community that you're one big happy family; but it doesn't take a telepath to know that something isn't right in the Club as far as how you feel (and I'm not talking about the 'fans' here).
13:29 12 Feb 13
Question. If SOS don't have the money to pay them out which we all understand could be true what would the options be.
I see people on here attack everyone from owners, management, coaches and players (but of course some of you can do no wrong) but what are their options. The only way to remove them would be to pay them out.
If we don't have the money then what.
It's great to say well their mistake 3 years ago but it doesn't solve the issue. It's great to point fingers at everyone but ourselves but any logical solutions as to where you find lets say $100,000 you do t have.
13:32 12 Feb 13
13:34 12 Feb 13
Exactly, it would be much easier to tolerate if Clarke showed passion and took accountability and made the team to also. He basically takes no responsibility and makes negative comments towards the fan base, but then we are supposed to have unconditional support for him?
If Clarke showed passion in his game day coaching and instead of deflecting the blame, took responsibility for the results, thanked the fans for attending and asked the fan base to stay patient state that they are making changes, doing everything he can think of to improve and actually make changes to the way he coaches in his games and improve on his flaws then most fans would respect him and support him alot more.
As much as many here would have hated Heal as a player, look at how he coaches, he is very passionate, changes things if not working, runs plays that suit the players strengths, doesnt try and shove round pegs in square holes, holds the players to high standards and rips into them if they dont give him the effort he wants, even if it is one of his imports or better players. He is a fairly inexperienced coach whom along with Anstey pre-season many expected to be the worse coaches and in the bottom 2, but both may make the playoffs, id expect atleast 1 to. That is the frustrating thing about it, Clarke basically doesnt do any of those things and is getting out done by these more inexperienced coaches, and the main thing is that Heal and Anstey are passionate about there clubs and pass that onto the players and demand they try as hard as they did to make there team win, if nothing else Clarke should be able to coach with some passion and get the players playing hard every possession and bench them if they dont.
Thats why many would love Maher as coach even though is inexperienced, if nothing else he is a passionate 36ers man and would demand the players play hard for the club, something that doesnt always appear to be happening currently.
Not condoning abuse or anything like that, just stating that fans expect/demand if nothing else they players/coaches work there buts off every possession and do everything they can to help the team win, nothing toxic about that, if the coaches and possibly some of the players had the same passion for the club as the fans do, and listened and made changes where aprropriate, we probably wouldnt be in this mess.
13:41 12 Feb 13
15 man Boomers squad from the NBL ie the top quarter of aussies in the comp
Nevill, Knight, Crosswhite
Redhage, Wagstaff, Petrie, Forman
Madgen, Goulding, Saville, Crawford, Blanchfield
R Martin, D Martin, Gibson
Adelaide would have two, plus they dont have a good import which every other team has at least one of if not two, so theyre a long way behind the 8-ball.
Jackson, Ervin, Lisch, Wilson, Flynn, Scott, (Dunigan), Deleon, Henry, Lazare, Grant/Hurdle, Hudson, Edwards ..... Massingale/Christopherson
Schenscher and Johnson could make the top quarter of Aussies potentially but not on this year's form, Weigh isnt too far out but not quite there.
13:41 12 Feb 13
It is the meakness of the surrender and its predictablity that evokes the silence of the crowd and yes they become part of the problem rather than the solution.This happens everywhere in sport.
I think to hang your hat on the losing margins is being foolish. These don't show that the 36ers have either choked up a winning situation or come back when the game is over.(there are exceptions of course)
Time for the team and coaches to man up and earn the respect of their supporters.Still time on the clock!
If players dont want to stay with or come to the 36ers because of the fans then these players are not made of the stuff we need to turn this disaster around.
It is clear that we have a culture in this club of looking for excuses, the people entrusted with the
responsibilty need to do just that - take responsibility. That would be a good start.
13:42 12 Feb 13
So, one major session of booing, and an apparent joke at the expense of Radford, and the crowd is "toxic"?
I was there on Sunday and heard absolutely no negativity or even jeering. Yes, the mood did change in the 3rd quarter, but can you honestly expect anything different from a supporter base that almost expects that capitulation in the 2nd half of games now? That being said, even with the mood change, there was still no booing or jeering. There was still chants of "defense" and "Sixers". There was still cheering at good plays. What would you like us to do? Suit up? Bring a sniper rifle and shoot Seth Scott?
Don't like being booed by your home fans? Don't ever play football at Old Trafford or Anfield then. If they lose, heck, even if they are down at half time sometimes, and played badly they will cop it!
I'm so over this blaming of the fans. Yes, it's our fault you can't execute in the 2nd half. It's our fault you can't hit open shots. It's our fault none of you will drive to the hole when the shots aren't dropping. It's our fault that you guys WON'T box out when your heads are down. It's our fault that not one of you will take the bull by the horn and make your team-mates better when the going gets tough. It's our fault that your coach won't call a momentum-stopping time out until the opposition has pulled back a 10 point lead. It's our fault that you started the season 5-2. It's our fault that you have lost 13 of 14. It's our fault that we are sick of this coach. It's our fault that we are frustrated. PLEASE, don't take any blame yourselves, and PLEASE, once you leave town bitterly, make sure you tell all players how HORRIBLE it is to play here in Adelaide. Ingrates.
Whatever. This "team" is dead to me until changes are made. "Toxic", huh?
13:46 12 Feb 13
" Who'd wanna play here ." I heard somebody shout !
It was a Sunday afternoon with a little bitta Guy Sebastion unplugged , Perth were introduced to 1 clap
and loud applause for the sixers intro .
Absolute silence for a Perth great play .
Cortez Groves came off the bench and we shot about 8 points in 4o seconds . I was hoping that the roof would stay on.
Catalini tunnelled Cortez who thought it was Schenscher and threw the ball at him . It was electric out there .
While the dancing girls did put off 1 or 2 free throws
this season , Jacob Holmes swished his in to take narrow win against us .
14:42 12 Feb 13
Worst you generally hear during the game from the stands is that murmuring as a run goes against us. As said, most still join chants and cheer any scores or highlights. The supportive atmosphere is still there.
Any sane player knows not to read the net, especially in season. Criticism is never fun to read, constructive or not. I remember the shock of reading criticism of my first professional job. 36ers' Twitter is positive and gets loads of very supportive comments. Countless fans still line up for autographs, or applaud after the end-game huddle, win or loss.
If you only read Hoops or Boti's articles, you'd assume incorrectly that every fan has deserted the team. I'd guess a majority are not keen on Marty/Radford, but thousands still show up to support and follow their club's story regardless of results or opposition.
Bizzy, you don't think the same effect in reverse would counteract that here in Adelaide?
14:54 12 Feb 13
So our team continually gives up 10+ point leads and ends up losing games and you want us to cheer them on like we have just won a championship? maybe give them a pat on the back and some jelly beans for getting out their and giving it a go...these are grown men who have decided to play professional basketball, and if they can't deal with a few people booing here and there maybe they should reevaluate their career's in professional sport.
14:57 12 Feb 13
Team is shit, has been for last 8 seasons, and is only getting worse. Its the NBL, no draft lottery no trades mid season, its not that hard for management to organise a solid coach and a solid squad, and win some games in front of a hungry fan base. The stadium is amazing to be at when the team is up and running, screw accountability and what has been, just get it done this off season!!!
15:16 12 Feb 13
Well said billups#1
These guys are paid to do a job & in a regular workplace they'd all be failing performance reviews & likely on 2nd notice by now. A bit of booing after some of their worst performances is nothing compared to what regular people could expect if they stuffed up so much in their jobs. Geez sporstpeople are a precious lot if they can't take that.
15:27 12 Feb 13
The team is not shit and the roster isn't really in decline (ignoring Christopherson signing) - the results are the issue. And while a number of things contribute to that, the fair consensus (after three years!) is that the system and the orchestrators of that are key.
15:32 12 Feb 13
Thank you Adam Ballinger...
This is what I have been saying ALL ALONG.
Sixer fans are toxic.
The fans are quick to :
- label others a Cancer
- start up weekly Sack Marty Threads.
- Set up Sack Marty petitions.
- Boo the home team in fromt of National TV.
NOT EVEN the 0 - 10 Townsville Crocs fanbase did this.
I hope the fan base take a good look at themselves after being called out by one of the Club's all time greats.
If I can curb my frustrations into real support for the team I am sure most others (sans Scorpion Tattoos) can too.
15:33 12 Feb 13
Adelaide fans have become acustomed to success, which is a good thing.
However they believe that it should 'just be there', no allowance for foundation building, no allowance for team to gel, no allowance for the coach to make mistakes.
You Sixer fans think Title Town is an entitlement sans the hard work.
Andre Lemanis will tell you all about it, how hard it was to develop his team to the cusp of a three-peat. Thankfully NZB fans are more patient and tolerant of the REAL WORK required to build a dynasty.
Yet we the Sixer fanbase is filled with nothing but bile and venom for the coaches should they not like one new import, or the removal of an ineffective import or dislike a sub or lack of sub or a misplaced timeout.
16:00 12 Feb 13
My guess that BJF and MC both have significant roles at 36ers. Initials and comments give clear hint. I believe they have agreed to wage a counter attack to give some perspective on this site. I admire their loyalty and it is understandable that they would want to defend the coaches.
Unfortunately the performance of the team is indefensible and in most cases the team should take as much reponsibility as the coaches. In this instance the coaches have flushed player after player and the only real consistency about the ball club is its losing record. Not sure what other measure even the most supportive and optimistic fan could use. If someone utters the word development one would only need to asses the performances of the individual players to know that this is "fools gold" and a crutch that losing teams use along with 3 and 5 year plans. Give it up guys you are only putting fuel on the fire.
16:01 12 Feb 13
@Marcus Camby, While your comments are valid and many of them are good; labelling the entire Sixers fanbase as 'Bile and Venomous' is going over the top mate.
Some of us have and always will support the team through thick and thin. The unfortunate side effect of being a long-term fan of a sport allows us to understand the game just as must as the people playing it.
While people like myself aren't going to abuse the sh*t out of the talent or coaching staff via personal attacks; we are always going to critique some of the decisions that are made during and after the game. Sports fans tend to enjoy doing that. It's the unfortunate side effect of being a passionate basketball fan and a passionate sixers supporter.
16:17 12 Feb 13
I support critiquing the team's performance including the coach’s.
However, the following Sixer fans’ flavas of the Month are not critiquing, the include :
- Marty is [email protected]
- Marty is a joke.
- Marty sucks.
- F U Marty.
- Sack Marty.
- SOS are a joke.
- I hope the Sixers lose so Marty can get sacked.
- I won’t go to another game with Marty there.
- I hope the Sixers fold.
Shall I go on?
Yes...saying ALL Sixer fans was over a bit too much….but how seldom do people on hoops come out and call for calm? Its always straight for someone’s throat.
16:38 12 Feb 13
Yea straight for the throat and most of the time without fact. But that's the perks of thinking your the most knowledgable you don't need facts.
16:39 12 Feb 13
MC you are hilarious.
What fans are you talking about? The Hoops SA fans?
The ones so passionate they not only go to the games and put money into the club but also run online to discuss the team?
Guess what mate. These fans probably make up less than 1 percent of 36ers fans.
I have worked that out conservatively. Say there are 10,000 people who support the 36ers in Adelaide. Of those 10,000 only 3,000 get season tickets and the remainder are much more casual in their support.
I don't think there would be much more than 100 regular posters on this forum who post about the 36ers.
100 out of 10,000 is 1 percent.
Of these 1 percent you have some that don't post negatively at all.
To characterise all 36ers fans as negative is ridiculous and an over reaction.
I would say Adelaide fans are as loyal as they come.
The 36ers have been better supported than most NBL teams.
Most of the 1 percent who post on this forum have been there from the beginning and don't have a vested interest (ie being directly involved in the signing of Clarke which will go down as one of the biggest epic fails in 36ers history).
The real issue appears to be that people like BJF and MC dont like free speech on this site as the criticism hits a nerve. This is not an official 36ers forum. If you don't want to read criticism why visit Hoops?
Just read the Disney style game summary on
That is why I've always believed MC was a troll. There is no other reason why he would continuously return to this site if the posts genuinely upset him to the point where he felt an obligation to continuously support him...even when Clarke's coaching gave him no ammunition to mount a defence.
I've always loved Hoops SA. Think it is the best basketball site in Australia.
I just think some would be better off sticking to the 36ers official site if they can't handle criticism.
In this case the less than 1 percent of 36ers fans who posted on this forum early on in the season (and also last year) that Clarke should be sacked for the good of the 36ers were correct.
If Clarke had gone on a 10 game winning streak guys like BJF and MC would similarly be saying "I told you so". Welcome to sporting discussion on an Internet forum.
I mean there are entire threads on this site dedicated to "Kobe can't play Bball". Get over it. It is a basketball forum. There will be different opinions, some good stuff and some crap stuff.
16:47 12 Feb 13
@Anon404006, spot on.
@Anon404008, another unfortunate side-effect of being a fan. Blurring the lines of common sense and frustration. You're on the mark.
17:20 12 Feb 13
As I said in '006....I have no problem with critiquing the team's performance including the coach’s.
I am happy to discuss the merits of axing CJ for example. I am happy to accept people have man-love for CJ and were upset to see him go, on the flip side I’d like to offer my opinions on the matter.
There is no problem with debate.
But often it degenerates into mean spirited personal attacks and is basically not constructive.
If people state CJ should have stayed because he was producing n ppg and x rpg and SC only produces n-1 ppg and x-1 rpg, I would gladly take that on board.
17:20 12 Feb 13
17:28 12 Feb 13
Well if you aren't a troll and genuinely want to read pro Marty Clarke opinions then perhaps this isn't the site for you.
90 percent of the Sack Marty posts I have read on this site have been justified by valid reasons for such an opinion being expressed.
People aren't posting that Clarke should be sacked because they don't like his hair style.
17:43 12 Feb 13
@anon #971 i think every season we should be playing to win the championship. What i am saying is there is a reality in the way that suggests that it is extremely hard to do. Every team, every season, says to themselves at seasons start - you know with a bit of luck we can win this thing this season. And they are right- that is the closeness of the NBL right now.
The frustration is long set in prior to Marty's arrival. A new coach represents a new hope as does any roster adjustments between seasons. Any time there is change and the results stay the same the result is increases in that frustration and the need to assign blame. Right now the gun is pointed at the coaches largely by this forum and not at the players.
Accountability is definitely needed.
Do the coaches get it right? far from it. Remember even Phil was chased out of the job eventually.
Put any other coach on the sideline for the Tigers game and the players still miss 13 FT's and 13 3PA in a game decided by 13 points. What i am suggesting is some balance to the conversation.
Has Anstey gotten better as a coach game to game? IMO no way, yet, add Flynn to the roster and they are in 3rd spot and he looks like he knows what he is doing. heal is now a good coach because he has a squad overachieving - everyone forgets the Dragons and Blaze records before this season though.
All i ever expect of a team is that they leave it all on the floor. Some night shots wont drop etc etc . i agree that some constructive passion on the sideline would be a good thing but that is not in Marty's makeup.
It reminds me of comments about Phil on the sideline. When we were winning it was cool for him to be slouching in his chair appearing half asleep people said he was relaxed and that helped the team relax and play well.
When we started loosing it was comments to the effect that Phil is asleep what the hell is he doing , no good coach does that....
18:32 12 Feb 13
Accountability is definatly needed, Clarke and Radford as the leaders of the team need to man up and take it, we would laud them as heros if they won us a championship, we crucify them if they get wooden spoons, welcome to pro sport, happens in all sports, doesnt mean they are bad people or should be abused, just not doing a great job of coaching the team.
Development phase and learning, yes they are allowed to make mistakes, but they have to learn from it and do it differently, has Clarke significantly adjusted the game plan or his rotations, other than those forced by injuries, no. He needs to take accountability for that.
No one is saying Heal is the greatest coach, i think he has done a good job, and for someone with simialr/less coaching experience than Clarke. The things i like about him is he is passionate, he takes accountability for his teams results and demands his players play hard every possession. Look at his dealings with Lazare, who is a good player, but Heal doesnt give him a free ride just because he is good and an import, he holds him accountable, if he does something he isnt supposed to he is told and benched at times, many wish Clarke would do the same to some 36ers at times. The other thing is he doesnt make excuses, Harvey misses a whole bunch of games, he doesnt go oh well there goes our chances this season, no he adjusts his roster the best he can and demands they all work there buts off each possession at both ends, if you dont you are benched, no matter who you are, the result is they win more than they lose despite injuries, etc and very few could accuse them of being lethargic, dis interested and lazy. That is what i like about Heals coaching, if Clarke could do those key things, we would have a much higher opinion of him and id almost guarantee they would have won more games.
The 36ers are lucky to have a great fan base who still follow the team, 5000 rocked up when they could have watched them at home on tv for free, given there record and most of us would have half predicted them to lose even at half time, speaks volumes of how good we are as fans!
19:15 12 Feb 13
Heal didn't coach at the Blaze. He had one good season and one bad season at Dragons.
19:26 12 Feb 13
Can't polish a turd really... Getting 3500+ crowds to watch a team that has won one game from the last fourteen starts is epic and a credit to the true blue supporters of this club. I'm looking forward to next year (sans turd).
ps BOX OUT...!
19:40 12 Feb 13
To be honest the 36ers have been terrible since SOS took over.
2010-Wooden spoon (Ninnis)
2011-2nd to bottom (Marty)
SOS have a bit to answer for with their inaction in not axing Cortez Groves throughout the 09/10 season and then not sacking Marty Clarke either last season (when it should've happened after he set the club record losing streak, which he's now done twice) or this season spiralling from a 5-3 start to a woeful 6-16, having lost 13 of the past 14 games. Utterly unacceptable.
19:56 12 Feb 13
BJF, would you give Marty and Radford another year? If not, money permitting, would you have made a change before the three years were up?
20:04 12 Feb 13
$$$$$$ people, poor bastards putting money up, then having supporters think they can say what they want because the buy a season ticket.
We are running on a shoe string and people on here keep comparing us to the glory days.
SOS vs Over Spending
No money or going broke!
20:26 12 Feb 13
@Isaac if you opened the auditions tomorrow to every coach in Australia to apply for the 36ers job you would , based purely on CV, narrow the choice down to Clarke and Beveridge
I do believe that Marty is a very good coach, I would however put an experienced former NBL head coach alongside him.
Gibbo and others have all publicly stated that their preparation is second to none.
Radford certainly has his benefits. Weigh followed him here, Schenscher came here knowing what Radford was like. There are strong rumours that Redhage almost signed here when he was out of contract all because of his relationship with Radford.
What that tells me is that people that know, believe that Radford is good at what he does. Are Marty and he too simliar? do we need some Ying with their Yang? perhaps.
20:26 12 Feb 13
The only abuse I've heard sitting 3 rows from the 6ers bench has been directed at Marty only, and it's when he makes a stupid sub, doesn't call a timeout, or just blatantly does nothing of use. There is one exception though, the old bloke to my left who thinks its the players losing the games because they are simply on the court, but he doesn't yell anything out. I've hardly heard a boo towards the 6ers, and even after losses people are standing and clapping. Toxic? I think not. The worst that could be said is that we are loud going into half time when we have momentum, then we shut up as soon as the other team blows out to 10-20 points up in the third.
The players I know haven't said anything bad about the fan base once, if anything they are more involved with fans/community than most others would be in the situation.
It will be amazing next year if we can secure the majority of the squad, except for an import exception, and get a coach who can let the guys play. The wins and cheers will come, and then this toxic crap will no longer be spoken of. Look forward to Ballingers boos next season now
20:28 12 Feb 13
20:46 12 Feb 13
BJF, You are correct with Marty. I think there a lot of people who think he is a good coach, in fact a great coach, but there is consensus that his big weakness seems to be his inability to make changes to his plan on game night and to react to his counterpart coach's changing plans. He is too rigid and too set in his ways. People have commented "it's his way or the highway" which is a good characteristic to have in a skills coach where weaknesses need to be identified and things done a particular way.
Marty would be well complimented with an assistant who is a sneaky thinker who can pick up on the subtle changes in a game on game night and change the strategy accordingly. Seems consensus is that between him and his current assistant, there is a massive black hole in this area.
Comparing Marty to Shane Heal, a lot of people would say that Marty is a much better coach than Heal, but Heal is more cunning and has the street smarts of a 14 yo runaway from Daveron Park. Heal is more successful (sadly) than Marty and so the need for street smarts is highlighted.
NZ Breakers. Lemanis seems to be more animated than most coaches, but Vickerman appears to be the emotional rudder that steers strategy on game night.
BJF, please tell me they are your initials and not " B Job Friday"
21:19 12 Feb 13
Ballinger got supported even though he played for the tigers on Sunday. Many we're cheering for him when he hit shots and even when he blocked Petrie in the 4th, I was one of those many. Could we not be hostile enough towards opposition.
I'm a little dissapointed in his comments towards the fans as yes the arena can be hostile especially when you turn on the fans that used to support you, just ask Julius.
It shows mentally players need different things, Flynn loved the hostility towards him and even baited the crowd, may be we should have bood ballinger and he may not have hit 8 of 9 shots.
Sixers management need to ask the team what they like during a game as obviously everything needs reviewing..
21:33 12 Feb 13
BJF, doesn't answer either question. And I don't know why at this point you'd look at CV over results in the league. You'd ignore Lemanis? McLeod?
I have got to the point where I am now barely bemused at the new achievements of the team. Losing at home, to the seriously depleted Hawks! And if anyone dares point at them "doing it for Sav", why the hell won't the 36ers do it for Creek, or for their coaches' futures or their supporters, or the guys paying their wage or FSM-forbid themselves?
21:55 12 Feb 13
How anyone could possibly consider Marty Clark a great coach is clearly misguided. Record or CV must be kidding BJF. I thought sports was about results
not a CV built in a protected and controlled environment where winning was not important. Jack T
I would have thought the ability to make adjustments
on the run and the ability to coach in game would be the best measure of a great coach. After all if you cant do this you will lose. Easy to prepare in the confines of an office with game tape and stats. The true test is under pressure in the heat of battle.
In this area MC is an abject failure based on facts not a CV.
I like many were fooled by the CV and the hope but
have been dissappointed and obviously wrong. Time to move on. Isaac agree with your last post.
22:00 12 Feb 13
How do u start a topic on here? Sitting on a sports story that
will break in the next 24-48 hrs.
22:04 12 Feb 13
Hit new topic on the top right above the thread title.
22:12 12 Feb 13
It doesn't involve a Richmond Tigers player does it Vespa?
22:26 12 Feb 13
22:51 12 Feb 13
It's so easy to trash our poor owners but surely money has an impact on decisions. The $300 you pay that you think entitles you to everything doesn't pay for the sacking and replacement you claim that should have made.
How about the CEO. Paid to do a job, clearly hasn't then jumps ship. She can hide behind the money line but wasn't her job to raise some. All I can see she did was piss me off as a member.
Surely the venue problem has been and should have been owner priority. No hood sacking a coach if team has no where to play and when administrators come into to any business everything changes.
22:53 12 Feb 13
23:28 12 Feb 13
Someone who knows a former team mate. Reckons he takes so many pills he rattles like a maraca.
I don't want to spoil your thunder....break it.
23:50 12 Feb 13
Pretty disappointing comments from Ballinger about fans that showed him plenty of support when he was playing here. He should be appreciative of the fact that he got to play in front of some of the most passionate fans in the league.
I seriously hope that the players or coaching staff don't buy into this BS - if the coaching staff or players find excuses like this for their terrible performances on the court then heaven help us as they'll never get better. They'll be too busy blaming their poor performances on everything else and everyone else. What's next - should we blame the floor wipers or the DJ for playing the wrong music for the Sixers winning only 1 out of the last 14 games?
What do you expect passionate fans to do when their team is not performing well time after time and they continually capitulate after half-time. Stand up and give the players a standing ovation?!? Fans booing their own team is something that you hear rarely in the NBL (not so in the NBA) and I can hardly remembering it happening in watching 15 years of Sixers games. (But then again, the Sixers haven't been this bad in 15 years... ) So when it does happen, the players and coaching staff should take extra note and it should be a sign and a massive wake up call to Management that something is seriously wrong and immediate action is necessary. To me booing is a far better reaction than sitting there doing nothing, it shows that you care rather than being apathetic. It's a credit that Sixer fans still turn up to games after three years of disappointing and frustrating performances, especially this season when the squad assembled has some serious talent and has drastically underperformed.
As said in the "Brooklyn Nets: reacting to crowd boos" thread The Sixers really should learn how the Nets players and coaching staff took accountability for their play and admiting their performance was unacceptable in front of fans who paid good money to watch them.
04:17 13 Feb 13
Rat, also better than walking off with their money.
Anon, owners would be privy to more venue info than you have and be satisfied with that progress. Boti certainly seems to be comfortable with it.
05:58 13 Feb 13
Rat. That's all beautifully written but none of our players and coaches said this. It came from an opposition player and former player of ours.
So why get all defensive about poor you having to watch this when I at no stage have heard anyone representing our club use this as an excuse.
07:20 13 Feb 13
'118, first line acknowledged that. Seriously, remember reading comprehension in primary school?
08:00 13 Feb 13
I give you permission JT. Deliver it anyway you see fit.
16:27 14 Feb 13
From a past thread:
Crocs forward Jacob Holmes said he was sick of the negativity surrounding the Croc's losing streak but people needed to put it into perspective.And then they started winning some games, despite the crippling hurt and the criticism...
"We're getting talked about everyday about how we're not very good... and it hurts," he said.
"But it's not the worst thing in the world. We're not in the Gaza Strip, we're still at the Crocs club, there's not bombs hailing down around us, so just move on and enjoy what you're doing."
17:23 14 Feb 13
All this 'toxic environment' talk is just an excuse or distraction, depending on who's driving it and why.
During games [any game] the crowd reacts to what is happening on the court, not the other way 'round.
I have never seen a crowd 'lift' a team, nor make it play worse. Have seen it work the other way 'round, though.
A crowd feeds off and interacts with the team, but that realtionship always begins with the team, or at least what is happening on the court, not in the seats.
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