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banked shot
Last year

#30839

Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Is it just me or has the refereing in perth become a joke? Are nbl refs to unprofessional to not be influenced by a crowd that has not been seen since the golden days of basketball in australia? do we need more import refs?

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Anonymous
Last year
01:28 16 Feb 13

Reply #404754

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

Better opposition would probably have helped?


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wildcats80
Last year
01:29 16 Feb 13

Reply #404755

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

We are so sick of these statements. Same thing last year, apparantly the eagles got a good run at home. It was a 32 point game, Crocs had 28 Turnovers. The foul count was 22-20 perths way. Why are u making a ridiculous statement like this.


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Anonymous
Last year
01:32 16 Feb 13

Reply #404756

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

^^ And people wonder why West Australians get chips on their shoulders!


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Cats82
Last year
01:39 16 Feb 13

Reply #404757

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

Was at the game, we did get a few home court calls, but why no 1 cryz when the breakers play?? How do there games get reffed? Its all wayz about perth! Lucky the boyz havnt found there shooting touch! They would ove won by 50! Even the games this yr they cant even it the ocean when there open and the continue 2 win by big margins bar the 3 and 6 points to the crocs n 36ers!


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banked shot
Last year
01:39 16 Feb 13

Reply #404758

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

i'v only started the game. but i can agree perth are very good team and townsville are not up to their level, i just want to open the discussion. crowds have an impact on the refs, its the sixth player. so the biggest crowd in the nbl will have the biggest effect. you must admit its visible watching the game.


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Anonymous
Last year
01:44 16 Feb 13

Reply #404759

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

Well, large crowds are always going to get in a ref's head to some extent, unless the crowd are completely passionless.

So the solutions to me are:
1) Hire Roborefs(TM), I'm sure Japan is working on this somewhere. No emotion, no home-call.
2) Ban the CSA, clappers and all motion during games amongst the crowd.
3) Ban the crowd, and let the NBL's attendence average drop about 20%. (You may hate the Wildcats, you may hate the Arena and Perth fans, but you have to admit, we are a huge part of keeping this league a going concern, especially now!).


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banked shot
Last year
01:45 16 Feb 13

Reply #404760

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

yeah nz is pretty bad as well, it just becomes more visible in perth since they are such a physical and defensively strong team. and probably more frustrating and thats why you see all these posts.


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banked shot
Last year
01:49 16 Feb 13

Reply #404761

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

yeah its awesome to see and hear that crowd in the stands, im asking do you think if the league continues to grow should they look at international refs to bring the nbl up to a higher level of league?, refs that are more used to a crowd of that size?


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Anonymous
Last year
02:03 16 Feb 13

Reply #404765

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

Well, to lure an international ref over would be much trickier than luring over a player. For a player, their career is basketball. For a ref, 95% of the time, their career is something entirely unrelated. And the 5% who would be fully pro, somewhere, are in the big leagues and how would you possibly lure them away from the Big Time?

Who would be comfortable with the NBL dishing out a six figure sum to an overseas ref to just take one spot on one of the ref crews? Because for most refs, you are completely turning their life upside down to bring them out of their home country.


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Proud
Last year
02:29 16 Feb 13

Reply #404766

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

Ok give the refs a break for a second and remember we have lost Billy Mildenhall and Ray Tomlinson and they were around for ever. I think 20 seasons plus each.

We also have one of the referees from the gold medal match at the Olympic Games in Michael Aylen.

There is a gorgeous young blonde referee that I can't recall seeing at our games but on TV she has done great.

If you get her and Aylen (who has had games in Perth but not many) and you add another decent referee and it should be fine.

There is only one way that our referees will gain experience from being in an arena that size and that is to go out there and do it.

There has been 10 games played at Perth Arena EVER, with no games played during pre season. That is 30 games experience total between our referees!

To me this isn't an issue and given suitable time and experience refs will improve, but please don't get upset over a passionate crowd that are loud and fair!


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Anonymous
Last year
02:44 16 Feb 13

Reply #404768

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

^^ Good points.

Worth considering the friday night crowd tends to be the rowdiest. Dunno how it came across on NBL.tv but each round of the clapping was going around the arena like a hammerblow.


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Anonymous
Last year
06:41 16 Feb 13

Reply #404776

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

Proud....You lose all credibility when you call Ray HUNT Ray Tomlinson. And the blonde you speak of Caldwell is hopeless, ranked towards to bottom of the panel


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Anonymous
Last year
07:00 16 Feb 13

Reply #404778

re: ''refereing'' in perth...

But she's hot. For the first time ever I have ref fantasys not based around slowly dismembering one.


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Anonymous
Last year
09:33 16 Feb 13

Reply #404787

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Aylen might have been a good ref once but no longer. he's following Butler (our previous best in my opinion) down the slippery slope. Perth definitely gets more home calls than you see at other venues but they happen all the time. It's human nature.

I would like to see those roborefs get a run though.


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Anonymous
Last year
09:37 16 Feb 13

Reply #404788

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Caldwell is a digraceful ref. Hunt & Mildenhall were way past their prime & I know many who'd argue they never had a prime. It seems basketball suffers from the same issues in attracting officials as it does in other aspexcts of the game in this country; it's just not big enough or rich enough to attract the best so we have to live with what we've got.


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BigAds
Last year
09:49 16 Feb 13

Reply #404791

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Bring in the roborefs and watch people complain about their programming.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:06 16 Feb 13

Reply #404859

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Anon #404757 - what do you mean Aylen was once a good ref? He refereed the 2012 Olympic men's final between USA & Spain! That was what, less than 6 months ago? Last time I checked he was still ranked #1 in Australia.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:37 16 Feb 13

Reply #404882

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Most of those anons would complain no matter who the ref is. The red may be making mistakes but the protest usually boils down to "they're calling fouls against my team".

There is always room for improvement with officials, just as with players, but some fools will never be happy with the former even as they defend their players to the death.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:44 16 Feb 13

Reply #404883

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Generally, the only coach bitching at the refs is LOSING! The defense rests


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Anonymous
Last year
21:55 16 Feb 13

Reply #404952

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Considering there is no official ranking of NBL officials shared publically or amongst the officials themselves im not sure how you'd know Aylen was ranked #1..

Well apart from the fact of coarse he ranks himself # 1...


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Beekayz
Last year
22:30 16 Feb 13

Reply #404985

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

@banked shot nobody can say you didn't call it.


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eli1
Last year
00:23 17 Feb 13

Reply #405008

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

This is a good argument. And strong. I think we all factor in that the game perth play is highly aggressive. Its like when they come here, u cant touch redhage or there is a fight but he can land blows on others, hold em down. Eventually, they will whinge they didnt win because of the refs, well they do anyhow with all the GF losses to NZ. So they get karma eventually.


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Proud
Last year
00:35 17 Feb 13

Reply #405009

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

My point with Hunt (sorry about that) and Mildenhall was they have reffed in front of 17000 (magic vs. tigers) so a 12000 crowd shouldn't phase them and I'm sure having their experience out there would give the other referees the confidence needed to make a big call.


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Dunkin' Dan
Last year
01:18 17 Feb 13

Reply #405012

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

I don't really get how refs can be swayed by the crowd on individual decisions, because the crowd noise takes a while to kick in and by that time if the ref hasn't blown his whistle then it's too late to blow it anyway.
I can understand how a string of loud crowd reactions can build up pressure on the refs to call the next one in favour of the home team though. I've seen that effect in action plenty of times.

Fans in Perth have been great for a long time at putting that pressure on the refs. Personally I though it was far more intense at Challenge than at the Arena though. Challenge was more intimate in that players and refs could hear individual comments from a good percentage of the crowd. The crowd could hear each other better, and would really gang up on the reffing at times.
At the Arena the overall noise is probably greater due to having 11,000 instead of 4,000 there, but it is not as intense, and the crowd doesn't ride the refs nearly as hard. Individual shouting just gets completely lost in space, so it's a more sterlie environment.

Having said all that, we do seem to get a good run with the calls this season, unlike at Challenge where the norm seemed to be for local refs to try to prove they weren't biased towards the Cats by overcompensating the other way. I haven't come away from too many games this season thinking we clearly got a raw deal, whereas it was pretty common in previous seasons.
There's not much point in being mad at the Cats or their fans over it, but I'm sure the NBL has avenues for complaints to be lodged.
I really don't want to hear it after games like last night's Crocs game though. The Crocs just do not have the brains or the discipline to get the better of the refs in a physical contest. WHen you carry on with undisciplined acts like Hinder and Ervin did, you're not going to get any favours.


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Anonymous
Last year
07:27 17 Feb 13

Reply #405023

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Anon #952

Yeah your right, I'm sure Aylen has awarded himself the last 3 Referee of the Year awards and not the league!

You just sound like a bitter also ran that isn't good enough. Not enough A's in your reports I'm guessing.


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Isaac
Last year
07:36 17 Feb 13

Reply #405025

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Dan, have you seen the graphic going around that contrasts the home/away FT disparity (I think it is)? Perth's is unnatural...

I don't think this is just a fan view but extends to teams or at least some of their staff.


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Anonymous
Last year
08:05 17 Feb 13

Reply #405027

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Anon #023 its well known that Aylen has alot of influence with management and throws his weight around behind the scenes. Im not saying he isnt our best official, just that he has more influence than any other official.


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ChuckBerry
Last year
09:06 17 Feb 13

Reply #405032

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

What would piss me off more as an opponent playing at Perth Arena is that lame ring the Perth cheerleaders form around the opposition bench late into the game.

Don't know about the reffing, although Steve Carfino was making some comments about physicality and consistency a couple of weeks back when he was calling the game @ PA.


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Dunkin' Dan
Last year
09:47 17 Feb 13

Reply #405035

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Isaac, I don't know that I've seen that particular graphic, but I do recall seeing some stats fairly recently that pointed to a pattern, yes.
I'm not denying that there is a trend btw. I just don't know what the "answer" is when it comes to evening things out. To me, the crowd's ability to influence the refs is something that is human nature from the refs POV and therefore very difficult to eliminate.

But opponents would give themselves a much better chance of getting a fair go if they didn't have chips on their shoulders about the reffing before they even set foot in the building.
Shitty calls are going to happen and they're not always the result of bias. They're typically just the result of refs being far from perfect. So when a team comes here and has mentally lost the reffing battle in their own minds before opening tip-off has even occurred, then plenty of times it will be a self-fulfilling destiny because they're already preoccupied with it.

I think the Cats players are better than most others at copping incorrect calls and just getting on with things without too much fuss, and that stuff makes a difference to refs. Again, human nature.
Having a big dummy spit and copping a tech will often get a coach the next questionable call or two, but just being whiny all game about every call will rarely see you come out in front of the foul count.


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Anonymous
Last year
10:06 17 Feb 13

Reply #405042

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Anon#027

And you know this is the case how? You may not want to listen to rumor and believe it as fact. Far more weekly calling from the North.


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Wildcat Fan
Last year
12:13 17 Feb 13

Reply #405053

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

ChuckBerry, That ring the cheerleaders do around the opponents bench late in the game is a crowd favorite! Who cares if the opponents hate it. It's all part of the intimidation factor. Maybe other clubs should take the initiative and do something similar at their games, then it will be even for all. Besides, it's only done during close games anyway.


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Isaac
Last year
13:20 17 Feb 13

Reply #405063

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Dan, trying to see if I can find it. Stay tuned.


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Isaac
Last year
13:32 17 Feb 13

Reply #405070

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Here it is: https://mobile.twitter.com/dj_rod/status/298322283838185472


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Dunkin' Dan
Last year
13:45 17 Feb 13

Reply #405072

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

Cats certainly do stand out on that chart!


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Isaac
Last year
13:57 17 Feb 13

Reply #405075

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

The other stat a bit like that is the FT% across venues - big dip in Adelaide thanks
to Quentin's work on the big screens...


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Dunkin' Dan
Last year
13:58 17 Feb 13

Reply #405076

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

I'd like to see the comparison as percentages rather than raw numbers though. Would be more meaningful.


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Anonymous
Last year
10:45 18 Feb 13

Reply #405259

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

They certainly are influenced - we use MIND CONTROL RAYS, which were sadly malfunctioning during the first 36ers game.


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Jason
Last year
13:25 18 Feb 13

Reply #405297

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

There's occaisional bad calls (or non-calls) and then there's letting Redhage maul everyone near him without penalty. The guy is a dirty player and the refs let him continue to play that way without penalty.


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The Situation
Last year
13:25 18 Feb 13

Reply #405298

re: Referees in Perth influenced by the crowd?

*slaps head*


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