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Anon
Last year

#30880

Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

Why do you think there is such a big discrepancy between NZ and Perth and the other 6 teams?

Surely its a bad image for the NBL that only two teams out of 8 have a positive winning record?

What are these two teams doing right that the others can't seem to grasp?

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Mystro
Last year
18:26 19 Feb 13

Reply #405555

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

Stable rosters, chemistry, player development, decent Coaches, financial stability to name but a few


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Anon
Last year
18:34 19 Feb 13

Reply #405556

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

Re Mystro, why then can NZ and Perth keep a stable roster (which is the bench mark for chemistry and what not) but the other teams decide to continuously heave players in and out?

On top of that, how can Perth regularly attract more than 10k supporters to a match when teams like melbourne can only attract 3k? Surely a team which has a high sense of culture like perth, will have more success?

What are team marketers doing wrong that they cant attract more people to watch the game?

Perth last year could only fit 4.5k to each home game due to capacity. Move to a new stadium, and in a year that number has doubled. Dont think ive seen an attendance under 10k this year for Perth.

Why can other teams not replicate those numbers?


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HO
Last year
18:39 19 Feb 13

Reply #405557

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

Anon, a little bit of market theory will answer part of the question. Supply and Demand.

Perth have been unable to meet demand for a long time.

So they have remnant demand for their product that is not yet satisfied. This is not dissimilar to NZ, who are a relatively new kid on the block and going through something of the BOOM that the NBL did 15 years earlier here.

Townsville had the same phenomenon as Perth for many many years, but at a point that demand gave way, and their crowd started to waver, firstly as the Cowboys eeked out some of the market for themselves, and then as the Croc's own product became "ho-hum" for their crowd.


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Marcus Camby
Last year
18:39 19 Feb 13

Reply #405558

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

Could we count this year as an anomaly?

It wasn't like this last year.

TSV had stolen the home court advantage in the Semis against NZB before floudering.

This year.

Injuries have really hit WOL, otherwise they'd be a threat. If Hurdle and/or Grant return, WOL can be a force again...but we're looking at a 12 month turnaround for ACLs (Hurdle and Martin).

TSV themselves had a horror start and surprised many how poor they were.

CRN are under achievers, being positive I would have hoped Trigger was able provide them with more inside scoring with only a mild drop off in D. Not so unfortunately.


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LETS GO KINGS!!
Last year
18:57 19 Feb 13

Reply #405561

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

it would be awesome to see tigers v.s kings in the final, or really any other team, make it to the grand final


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natwhereyouat
Last year
19:14 19 Feb 13

Reply #405564

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

Perth have "won" for 25+ years (cant remember the figure). It's easy to attract fans when you're always in the playoffs, at least. They also do a good job in their local media and game night presentation.

NZ have the whole country behind them. But struggled early on and crowds have only really started to come on since they started winning as well.

Wollongong is so close to Sydney that they fight for corporate sponorship. As a result they can never keep imports as an import will come, sign, show how good they are and leave for more money (see Thomas, Timmons, Ervin, Groves etc). Wollongong is also a footy (NRL) city. Dragons play 5-6 games out of WIN stadium yet most local businesses sink all their sponsorship money into them and not the Hawks.

Sydney, there is so much going on in the city, you have most of the NRL teams based out of the city, two AFL teams, at least one A-League (just one?). Then on any given night you have a bunch of touring bands/DJs hitting the city. Kings don't have a draw card player like the did in the 90s/00s. Henry was starting to become that player. City media barely/dont mention the NBL either.

Melbourne, from what i've been told its because A. The location of The Cage, nights they play & because unless you play for the Tigers (in the jnr ranks) you hate them.


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Anonymous
Last year
19:40 19 Feb 13

Reply #405568

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

No comment about Adelaide? Marcus you pathetic excuse of a troll.


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Beekayz
Last year
20:43 19 Feb 13

Reply #405574

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

I thought it had to do with Perth being so behind the times that this "basketball craze" that swept up the other states in the 90s is only catching on now?


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Anonymous
Last year
21:39 19 Feb 13

Reply #405585

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

money - the answer is money! they have it to spend the other teams don't


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cats fan
Last year
23:18 19 Feb 13

Reply #405594

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

No way Beekayz! NBL was HUGE in WA in the early 90s. We only had the one AFL team and there would be HUGE crowds rocking up to watch the cats like Ricky Grace, Andrew Vhlahov and Scott Fisher play!

Perth went through the same 90s NBL craze the rest of the country did


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HoldenV8
Last year
00:03 20 Feb 13

Reply #405599

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

IIRC in the 1990's Perth were regularly selling out the 8,200 seat Perth Entertainment Centre (located literally a stone's throw from the Perth Arena), and before that they were getting full or close to full house crowds at the Superdome (Challenge Stadium). So the support for the Wildcats has been there for a long time. The people in WA generally have an "Us vs Them" mentality with the rest of Australia and it shows in their support of national league sporting teams. The Eagles, Dockers, Glory and Wildcats regularly get crowds that a few other's only dream of.

NZ's support has steadily grown from the time they started, to the point where half of their games are now played in the 9,300 seat Vector Arena because the NSEC isn't big enough. It helps that they're currently the best team in the NBL. Another thing that helps is the inbred "Beat Australia" mentality of the Kiwi's. Other than the All Blacks winning the World Cup, the Kiwi's like nothing more than beating us Aussies. The Breakers are doing that and they're loving it.

Have to agree with natwhereyouat. From what I've heard the Tigers support base is limited by a few factors. Because they also play locally in Melbourne, those associated with or who support other teams won't support them. There are also those who formerly supported other Melbourne based NBL teams like the Magic/Titans and the Giants who will never support the Tigers just because they're the only team representing the city in the NBL. They hated the Tigers back then and still do. All of that is a legacy of an NBL team being from a local club rather than a composite team.

Nat also hit the nail on the head about Wollongong. Because the St George-Illawarra Dragons play half of their games at WIN Stadium (with generally more than half the team also being juniors from the Illawarra district), they dominate the local sponsorship market. With the media coverage that the Dragons get compared to the Hawks, sponsors know that they will get a lot more bang for their buck. And unlike the NBL, every single NRL game is televised, either on Fox Sports or nationally on Channel 9 (plus, FWIW, the games are also shown in NZ and the UK). Kinda makes it hard for the Hawks to attract the big dollar sponsors when they've already given their money to the Dragons.


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Beekayz
Last year
07:13 20 Feb 13

Reply #405606

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

@cats fan Yes I remember. I was just being catty.


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paul
Last year
07:51 20 Feb 13

Reply #405607

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

The Tigers have done a great job this year of reaching out to a wider audience. They have signed over 4000 members (although that includes 3, 7 and 10-game memberships) and averaged over 5000 so far at Melbourne Park.

When you consider the Dragons averaged 3800-3900 to non-derby games, and the Tigers' last season at MP in 02 averaged around 4300-4400 including derbies, they seem to be on the right track.


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Anonymous
Last year
08:49 20 Feb 13

Reply #405614

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

They are just smart and don't hire boneheads for the most part. Effort is a huge issue too, Perth and NZ's guys just play harder every night.

Look at the difference between Perth and Townsville, who are in the discussion of "third best team" -- it's massive. We need parity but at some point you just have to say "well don't hire semi-pros and expect them to produce like professionals.."


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paul
Last year
09:24 20 Feb 13

Reply #405618

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

"Perth and NZ's guys just play harder every night."

Spot on, those two and a fit Wollongong play super hard, know each other well and know their systems inside out. That's why the top teams win so many of the close games which makes the gap in talent look much bigger than it is.


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Vart
Last year
09:49 20 Feb 13

Reply #405620

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

The Tigers offered a lot of '2 for 1' type deals in order to get those 5,000 crowds to Hisense. I'd be interested to know the number of paying customers that attended those games, and whether or not they actually broke even on any of those home games at Hisense.


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Melbourne Hawk
Last year
10:00 20 Feb 13

Reply #405624

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

Dont forget that it is pretty tough in most markets at the moment in terms of the economy. Perth is going crazy with the mining dollars over there, while the other teams around Australia are pretty much missing out. So while the winning aspect & good management is a large part of it, they are getting a free kick in terms of the economy in that region. NZ is in a similar boat, strong ownership and they have been able galvanize the whole of NZ behind the team.

Nat is right about Wollongong, but you could apply the same thinking for all NBL markets - there is simply not alot of money left on the table once NRL/AFL take their share.

Even long term sponsors in Wollongong have started to pull back, simply because they cannot afford it.

You are starting to see the same thing happening with the NRL as well - Cronulla and Parramatta could both go into the season without naming rights sponsors.


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paul
Last year
10:12 20 Feb 13

Reply #405626

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

Vart, the average price the Tigers charged for tickets, including discount offers, was well higher than the Dragons charged.


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phil
Last year
15:59 20 Feb 13

Reply #405690

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

adelaide have themselves at a massive disadvantage really.

i know 50% of the population have no idea where findon is much less adelaide arena. even if they do they probably dont care too much.

having a small city we are still spread out over as much space as any other city in australia just with a less dense population. why then you would put your home court out in the suburbs is beyond me.

having a court in a vibrant place would allow you to market it better. there is no more central location than the city. there is no place easier for people to get to on public transport then the city. there is no denser population per a 3 kilometre radius than the city. no where else you could target other groups, ie, after work people on a friday night, people heading into town for something else can also catch a game. so many target audiences you could reach.


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paul
Last year
16:15 20 Feb 13

Reply #405692

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

"having a small city we are still spread out over as much space as any other city in australia"

Out of interest and not taking away from your overall point, Melbourne covers 3-4 times as much area as Adelaide.


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Mystro
Last year
16:16 20 Feb 13

Reply #405693

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

The whole of NZ do not fill NSEC or Vector, in saying that a small amount of fans will make the trek north from Hamilton but not many would make it from further often.

The Breakers support base is Auckland and they have embraced the community.
The players are super accessible to the public and the club run massive school holiday programs (even Julie Corletto gets in the act so cheers again Melbourne) to go with their school visits etc.
The Breakers now they are winning get massive media coverage over here (tiny compared with Rugby but better than it's ever been) so they are always visible. Games get replayed on sky, highlights get replayed, National News articles on the results with a player and coach interview instead of a quick mention.


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phil
Last year
17:45 20 Feb 13

Reply #405702

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

every might have been a slight overstatement but you get my point.


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Wildcat Fan
Last year
17:46 20 Feb 13

Reply #405703

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

Agree with you there Phil. Location is everything. Perth Arena is centrally located in the city, right next to the train station which makes it desirable.

Out at Challenge Stadium, it felt like the middle of nowhere - even though its location was in the leafy western suburbs right next to one of the popular beaches - but as it wasnt in the city, or in a vibrant area, so no-one really cared too much.

Even though I dont live in Adelaide, what is stopping the Sixers from playing at the Entertainment Centre? Ive always thought that was a much better venue. I also believe that a change in venue - to a nicer one - will add a lot of interest again, ala Perth Arena...


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HoldenV8
Last year
20:36 20 Feb 13

Reply #405722

re: Discrepancy between the 8 clubs?

Wildcats Fan, the Entertainment Centre, while being located in an ideal place near the city and with public transport stopping right outside, would be a logistical nightmare for the 36ers and the NBL. Games would have to be scheduled around existing year round bookings, while the costs to hire the venue would make any potential profits something to forget about, even if they 'did a Wildcats" and averaged 10K to every game. And that's a long shot, even if they return to their championship winning ways.

Capacity wise it is good and can comfortably hold around 10,000 fans, as shown by the national and international netball games held there. But really, despite now being 21 years old, the Adelaide Arena is the biggest and still among the best purpose built basketball venues in the country and it holds around 7,800 (though about 140 less these days with the addition of the RAA Lounge), which for this league is still pretty good.

The availability of the Adelaide Arena is vital to the future of the club. There are other things that need to change at the 36ers before a change of venue is even thought about.


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