hogwash61
Years ago

Court Time

This has probably been discuseed to death previously.

Basketball and the make-up of the teams that play it are quite unique.

But when will Representative Basketball enforce their Codes of Conduct (read as Fair play for all) to ensure every player gets a minimum amount of court time? I'd even suggest 50% game time.

With the 'winning is paramount' mentality, can't they see that all they are doing is turning kids & parents off the sport? The authorities aren't really interested in addressing this issue as they always have a ready supply of new talent entering the system at U10 & U12. It really is a HUGE silent problem that is affecting the growth of the sport.

For the kids that regularly go with no minutes or only a few minutes, can't they see these kids will grow into adults who will more than likely have kids of their own.

I wonder if the authorities think they will encourage their kids to play basketball?

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Pauly B  
Years ago

Court time at rep level needs to be earned. I don't believe a kid should not be played at all but 50% game time is simply not realistic. Development should be the driving force for coaches but players need to understand that they must earn their court time through hard work, ability to follow instruction, training attendance, etc.

In my experience, problems with court time usually stem from the parents who have an unrealistic view of their child's ability or an overreaction to reduced playing time in one or two games rather than looking at the season as a whole. Then the parent gets in their child's ear on the way home which starts to make the player believe they're being treated unfairly. The player then starts to blame the coach rather than being willing to listen and work on their game. The whole thing ends up snowballing.

I think a junior rep player should expect to play about 25% of game time as a minimum on average over the course of a season. Rep ball is the elite level for juniors and should be treated as such, if 50% game time for all rep players is the expectation then stick to domestic basketball.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Ok, so your kid is gifted 20min a week? What are they doing to earn it?

Trainings are 3hrs per week. This is where your child gets better. Are they working really hardcatvtrainings? Is your coach actually prepared to run trainings so your child is getting better?

How much out side of games and trainings is your child doing to get better? I think you'll find coaches reward those types of things.

People need to stop 'hating' Sturt for wanting to do things better than everyone else. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. Not a bad service for paying your coaches $0. Anyone play tennis? Bet your happy to pay $40 per hour for coaching. Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way.

If people don't like the way Sturt do things, go to another club. Sturt won't complain, ashame everyone does. Maybe use them as a target and aspire to do things better than them.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Ok, so your kid is gifted 20min a week? What are they doing to earn it?

Trainings are 3hrs per week. This is where your child gets better. Are they working really hardcatvtrainings? Is your coach actually prepared to run trainings so your child is getting better?

How much out side of games and trainings is your child doing to get better? I think you'll find coaches reward those types of things.

People need to stop 'hating' Sturt for wanting to do things better than everyone else. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. Not a bad service for paying your coaches $0. Anyone play tennis? Bet your happy to pay $40 per hour for coaching. Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way.

If people don't like the way Sturt do things, go to another club. Sturt won't complain, ashame everyone does. Maybe use them as a target and aspire to do things better than them.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon I dont the orignal post has anything to do with sturt. I think they r from victoria.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

It can never be as simple as 20mins per game...

Lots of factors can be in play but one thing is for sure. Failing a major breech of team rules/culture, every kid must get to play and give a "reasonable" amount of playing time.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Why?

Who determine what is acceptable?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Why? They are kids. Playing sport for all of them is about much much more than the result of any one game of season for that matter... Wow.

Acceptable or reasonable court time is not a fixed amount of time as the circumstances will vary greatly from game to game but every player needs to play in junior basketball.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I believe parents with self serving interests determine what court time is acceptable. The coaches obviously can't be trusted to make those impartial decisions. Kids, earn your court time. Parents, teach your kids to work for what they want and stop giving them everything they want!

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mick  
Years ago

I think this sums it up nicely,

http://www.bigv.com.au/index.php?id=755&tx_ttnews[year]=2012&tx_ttnews[month]=08&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=3004&cHash=e286e155d39a0a112d542460b20570d1

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Agreed, it is rep and not domestic. Lots of kids just don't work hard and still expect court time.

A very wise coaching director said "if you want more court time practice and get good enough to demand it"

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Anonymous  
Years ago

You need clearly differentiate between domestic and rep.

At domestic level, especially in the lower age groups it should be about participation and enjoyment first and foremost and as you gradually go up to the higher age groups and grades the emphasis should start to be about competition too.

At representative level court time is earned not an equal entitlement, that said there needs to be a balance of overall development too.

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anon  
Years ago

So a coach goes through the process of 4-5 tryouts 8 -10 hours of watching kids train, show their skills, in the drills chose so they could pick kids with those skills. Game play, endurance.
So after that, the coach gets to pick the best available playercs.

Basketball vic has a coaches code of conduct, which 90% of coaches have never read or choose to ignore.

Six weeks in you have settled on your favourites, the six kids wh may get you the wins, so you keep your job the following season.

By this time, you 2-3 kids who you just give 4-5 mins to a week, just to justify the $2000+ each parent outlays, not to mentions the massive time commitment

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anon  
Years ago

Sadly many coches think they are coaching to become the next Brian Goorjian, yet that couldnt be further from the truth.

We read posts from them here all the time, they can actually quote games, win and loss ratio.

Coaches who bury kids on the bench are the failure, they take the easy route.

Motivate the kids to do better and be better, to go through the system and come out as better players and people who can win and lose gracefully.

There is no doubt basketball coaches, on the whole have huge egos. When they win its down to them, when they lose, its the kids.

Reality check needed big time in basketball, back to basics

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Junior Domestic AND association representative basketball need to be about development of ALL the players/people...

Junior Association representative basketball isn't elite at all, how can it be with so many teams and levels? It's about development of kids who are more committed to the sport than the kids who are happy to stay at the participation level (domestic).

They are not superstars or little robots but kids who love the game and will pay the cost (time and money) to be involved. 99% of them will never play elite basketball but 100% of them will live in our community and before they become leaders of our community! we can teach them through sport some valuable lessons...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I hope the coach from Sturts 18 2's team is reading this debate, i'm sure he would have some interesting thoughts on the subject

Reply #437319 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

437270, There's no need to bring a specific club into this debate. Was there been a previous post bagging Sturt? No. There seems to be a little insecurity with you somewhere. You seem a bit edgy, have you taken your meds, or has your tin foil hat fallen off?

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Pauly B  
Years ago

Paying fees does not buy a set amount of minutes for your child, it buys your child an opportunity. The opportunity to listen, learn, work hard and follow instructions. The ability to do that will determine their playing time. Do we, as coaches always get it right? Of course not but the majority of us make our playing time allocations based on these factors.

Part of any player's development is learning consequences for their actions. How can a player that is not doing what they're asked or repeating the same mistake multiple times be given the same amount of court time as a player that is able to follow instruction and make adjustments to avoid repeating the same mistake? Why should the player that's doing the right thing have their court time reduced and see their minutes go to the players that isn't doing what they're asked?

I 100% agree that all junior basketball should be about development but that doesn't entitle players to equal court time at rep level. The reason why junior representative basketball exists is to provide a pathway and development opportunities to get to the elite level. Yes, 99% of junior rep payers won't make it but they can still come away with an understanding of hard work, commitment, leadership and teamwork. Which I think we can all agree are valuable life tools.

Sadly, some parents and players arrive with a sense of entitlement and blame the coaches for their lack of court time. I have had games where I've had to repeat a basic instruction to a player three times, sometimes more so I've reduced the minutes of that player for that game. Then had the parent or player complain about being treated unfairly after the game.

As a coach, have I had favorite players? Absolutely. The ones that listen, work hard and are able to accept construction criticism without wanting to argue the point every time.

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Jack Toft  
Years ago

I think there is an expectation that at the start of the season court time is basically a baseline of time that kids should expect and then they need to earn extra time. They are customers and so should expect something for their money.

If that is communicated to the playing group early and they understand that court time will not be equal and that they need to put in the effort then there shouldn't be an issue. However, coaches also need to be careful not to lay a trail of BS promising kids this, that and the other, only to play favourites based on other factors. Good coaches understand how to motivate kids, poor coaches don't understand motivation and then blame "bad parents" for their inability to manage their customer properly.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Lets not forget training is a bit part of the paid service as some see it.
Every kid gets equal time on the training court. The game is only part of the experience, especially for young kids who normally have a ball at training.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

i'd actually be really interested in finding out what the 182's coach would think of this?

its really obvious that we have a disgruntled parent expressing their concerns on a public forum about their kid not getting any minutes in a gf. do we know whey the player didnt hit the court? did the player break a team rule, miss trainings, etc. There are always two sides to every story.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Court time being the biggest problem in Junior Rep basketball is the easiest one to fix. Don't pick 10 players to a team.
Have a team of 7 or 8 and that one week of the season where you only have 5 players(Due to injury/school/hols) ,they might not win but will be the happiest team of players in the stadium.
Just have more teams , so same amount of players are playing, and there will be less of a gap between the best and worst player in a team

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Agree, the fixation of 10 per team at rep level is more about ego than anything else, 8 or maybe 9 per team will see everyone get a decent burn

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Pauly B  
Years ago

It can be difficult to juggle 10 players but having only 7 or less players per team would significantly reduce the standard of play due to fatigue and it would also increase the rate of injury, again, due to fatigue. Having only 5 players in a game at rep level helps nobody. The players run themselves into the ground and it ends up being a sloppy mess of a game.

Players will improve more in an environment where they're playing in games where their mistakes will be punished by the opposition. If both teams are too tired they will be able to get away with errors that they wouldn't normally get away with. Are we willing lower the standard of play just so everybody gets a warm fuzzy feeling?

Also, where will the extra, suitably qualified coaches come from to coach these extra teams? Would parents be willing to except a lower standard of coaching just so little Johnny or Mary gets their "fair share"? No way and they shouldn't. More refs would also be required thinning the standard of refereeing.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

In the By-Laws of BSA, div 1 and 2 coaches do not have to give minutes to anyone if they so choose

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2FAST4U  
Years ago

When you have 10 players in junior teams it's never going to end well. The coach allocates 50% of time to every player and each player only gets 20 minutes. Allocate the time on best player basis and you get the worst players only getting 5-10 minutes a game, which causes disgruntled parents and disillusioned kids.
It'd be better if teams only had 8 players in juniors up until U16 with the exception of D1 teams. As a player I always strived to play D1 but at the same time I'd rather be playing D2 as a starter than D1 as a bench warmer.
Capping teams at 8 players would also help to build a stronger competition because clubs like Sturt would than split their divisions into 2 teams rather than 1. The players that are benchwarmers get more game time and chances to develop their skills as well.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Parents that want their Kids to have more court time, better have them practicing outside of training times, to improve and develop their skills further. This is for when they are at the high levels or their sport only.. I am so sick of hearing at school sports days and everyones a winner... "No" everyones a participant,to be a winner is to strive for something higher than just being there, and paying your fee's,. To not hit the court is a learning tool to, one that should have them really wanting to changing that and striving for more,(thats why our kids are so stressed out when something just doesnt happen for them later in life, if they just get given stuff, and not worked for it.. how will they go in real life,, no one will hand a job to someone for just showing up with out the credentials needed, and no parent can say, "but just check them out Id like you to be fair, because I love them") Everyone loves their kids, lets help them strive to be the best they can be and what ever they strive to excel at. Gaining Skills for live, and some back bone. The kids at the top of their game may be working their butts of for it.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If the player is not getting court time then maybe the player should drop a level and get all the minutes they want

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Jack Toft  
Years ago

I would say to coaches who whinge about parents that they should look inside themselves as well. As a coach you are a leader and a manager. You are your own sales and marketing team as well as your operations team, and your team and stakeholders looks to you for a vision and to be many things to many people.

If you have an inability to manage assertive stakeholders, then perhaps you should seek some training in how to "manage difficult customers". If you are a coach who hates parents and who parents hate, I would say to you that you have a failure to communicate effectively. A failure to clearly articulate the expectations required to be an effective member of your team and a failure to encompass that vision so that they feel a part of that vision.

If you are a coach who has completely lost the respect of players, parents, committee and other coaches, then seek a new start at another club where you can start with a clean slate.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The current argument is as irrelevant as the initial one - because if you selected a kid in the 2nd side instead of the 1st (or 3rd instead of 2nd etc) to give them more on court opportunity, you would have the same parents up in arms that their child didn't get selected in the 1's.

Reply #437387 | Report this post


Pauly B  
Years ago

Absolutely Anon #437387. It's a very, very hard sell trying to convince a player and their parents it's in their best interest to play in a lower team for a season. This is especially true when it's a first team or second team decision. I've seen several kids go on to play youth league & SEABL that were playing in 3/4 teams in U16's so it's not the end of the world like some make it out to be. I've even seen kids leave a club because they didnt make the first team so they could make the first team at another association. Even though that club's first team is likely to play in a much lower grade than their orignial club's seconds.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Great advice from someone who doesn't coach Jack.

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Bear  
Years ago

Having observed and experienced this 'Fair Court Time' theory on all sides of the fence I have come to some conclusions.

These are not definitive by any stretch and of course many variables need to be considered, just my own opinions based on what I have learnt in general, take from them what you will...

1. The attitude, personalities and egos of the player, coach and parents if not on the same page and in line with the direction of the club (player pathway and team orientation), then conflict through a lack of leadership and understanding can occur.

2. Expectations of the players, coach and parents need to be clearly established, as early as possible, otherwise unrealistic points of view will result in further conflicting episodes through disappointment.

3. Communication between the club, its coaches, players and parents must be 100% clear and explained at the start of the season (especially representative basketball) on what is expected, accepted, unecceptable, tolerated, not tolerated and how everyone fits into the overall structure.

4. The culture of the club! This one is massive and is imbedded over time, but can be changed depending on who is leading the club (Association). Leadership needs to be established and followed, but it must be workable and once again clearly stated, enforced and understood by all, at the beginning of the season.

I guess what I am expressing is the fact that no matter who we are or where we are from, without clear understanding between all stakeholders, confusion will occur and the rot will eventually set in IMO...

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Jack Toft  
Years ago

It would be if you took it

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Jack,

Even if you do everything well and make 9 people happy there is always the potential to makes 10.11 and 12 unhappy for the simple reason of non selection/minimal court time.

Sometimes they'll accept it, and other times they will be total idiots about it. To suggest that it's all or nothing is simplistic at best. I would consider it just plain ignorant and coming from a parent who has never coach at an serious level.

Reply #437437 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

437, I wish you would be a man and actually read my post succinctly and not over-react like you do.

All I have said is that part of being a good coach is managing the stakeholders around you, just like you would in the workplace situation. It's about managing their expectations just like you would in a workplace. Part of that is being clear in your expectations and outlining those expectations in a manner that your stakeholders can understand.

No one group will ever be 100% satisfied with nothing to complain about, but if you have parents that stick by you when one parent "stirs the pot" then you know you have outlined you expectations well.

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Bear  
Years ago

Don't think anon has quite comprehended the message in its intent Jack...

You are correct, of course, and we see those issues often don't we?

I have always tried to be clear at the start, letting my team know that court time is largely determined by the kids themselves.

Listen and do what you are coached to do and even when you make an error you will learn from it and play on too. Don't listen and just continue to do your own thing, ignoring team rules etc... and you will sit and watch your team mates.

Either way, they learn.

Parent's expectations can exceed their kid's potential and coaches can get selections wrong or fail to see underlying issues at times, it happens but both need to be on the same page from the start and communicate throughout the season.

No one benefits from ignoring the other for too long...

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Jack Toft  
Years ago

Spot on Bear. It's all about effective communication.

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hoopie  
Years ago

I'm with anon 437373.

There's such a sense of entitlement these days that it makes it hard to be a coach.

Too many parents these days think that just paying the money and having the kid turn up entitles their kid to equal time, even when they're obviously not good enough. And if they don't get anywhere with the coach, then they just go higher in the club until someone gets influenced enough to pressure the coach.

Do many parents or schools these days teach the kids that putting in the hard work will get better rewards than just sitting back looking for someone to blame? Or is that too old-fashioned in these days where you can become famous just for being a nobody on TV?

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Mike F  
Years ago

Jack,

I totally agree with you. At all levels it is about managing expectations, being open and transparent and pro-actively communicating.

Here is a real life example that I was part of this year.

I took over an U12 Girls team and expectations were that we would be a middle of the road team. I met with each parent and child to outline (1) my expectations of them, (2) what our goals as a group were, (3) what they could expect from me and (4) how we'd address issues.

I set out from day one focused on developing skills, turning them into habits and teaching about the game - not winning but how to deal with what the game throws at you and get better.

One key expectation, everyone would play every game. I guaranteed 25% court time every game during tournaments / the season with finals being different.

Did I make mistakes a long the way, you bet. However, next training session I walked up to the child and their parents and told them I made a mistake. No excuses, just open and honest!

Each week, I'd speak with the kids and their parents. Not every parent but some of them. We kept game records of court time and the impact the kids had on our performance (not individual stats but + / - impact on our score whilst each group was on court).

Mid year, I met with the parents and child formally and discussed how (1) they were going, (2) how the team was and (3) I felt I was going. They had a chance to have a say. We showed them the time and impact data for their child and used it to look at how they could get better.

I continually reinforced the goals, expectations and parameters. Especially just before finals at tournaments, the Classic and end of season. Sure, some parents didn't like it but everyone new the story. I even benched better kids in some games to allow others the chance to play more - even lost a game or two for the longer term goal.

Anyway, it works out the least court time a player got was 40% over the season and tournaments. In finals, everyone still played and averaged 25%. We won the Victorian State Championship when most people didn't expect us to get out of the first round of finals!!!!!

Key points - (1) everyone played, (2) everyone learnt and got better over the season, (3) everyone understood in the 4-5 big games that our focus was winning and that may need to sacrifice, and, finally, (5) we were all on the same page.

It can be done but the coach needs to lead the way, role model and constantly communicate.

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Mike F  
Years ago

Hoopie, as a school teacher I can tell you that a lot of parents expect their kids to be entitled to good marks even if they don't put the work in.

What you see on the basketball court, in terms on expectations and entitlement, usually reflects their view of school.

That's why the call them the 'Bubble wrap generation'. They expect instant success and gratification, the aren't allowed to fail, they can't get dirty, they can't work to hard and they are allowed to demand and push their parents around.

Reply #437463 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

@Mike F, off topic slightly but the same goes for teacher student relationships as well. If parents are not aware of how their kid is going at school, then it is too late once the report day hits to fix any issues like a lack of effort say...

I have had that conversation with teachers recently, asking them to keep the parents in the loop, not hard in the email & text world of today!

Yes, the 'Bubble Wrap' comment is one I have heard too, and let's face it the perception is reality in some cases, but schools shouldn't be sausage factories either.

Just as coaches and teachers are different, so are students and kids playing sport. We need to treat them as the individuals they are IMO, while teaching them to be part of the team.

I know this is not easy, but!!

We, as adults, need to understand generational changes as we expected our parents to...

Reply #437465 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

good work Mike F

Reply #437466 | Report this post


Big V  
Years ago

I think at rep level all coaches should have an assistant. Still seeing high level teams with no assistant. Coaches can lose track of players and minutes. Helps with communication as well. Player can hopefully get feedback as soon as subbed off. Not always perfect but can work.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Seriously, WTF do junior rep coaches need assistants for?
If they're sitting with a head coach to learn and develop so be it but its draining resources for starters.
If a Coach at junior rep level cant do the basic things like keep track of their rotations they shouldn't be coaching.
Having assistants at junior level is similar to 10 player squads, unnecessary and more to do with appearance and ego than anything.

Reply #437472 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Explain to us please anon, what is wrong with a 10 player squad?

You could start a pre-season with 10, only to lose one to a knee injury, then have another unavailable due to football or some other reason that player misses half a season, then one break a thumb in a misshap and another gets a nasty virus and now you are down to 6!

Is that enough of a team for you to handle??

Reply #437474 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

472, perhaps think of an assistant coach as a trainee. Coaches have a limited life and you would be hard pressed to find a club knocking back volunteers wanting to coach. Having an assistant coach with the head coach means that the transition into a head coach role is easier and they can learn off experienced coaches.

That way, when head coaches need a break, or retire, clubs are looking for assistant coaches each season to replace the assistants that are now head coaches. What's easier? Convincing someone to be an assistant coach, or a head coach?

Reply #437475 | Report this post


Clapped Out Hack  
Years ago

The sporting field is one of the few safe and controled environments we have to allow our children to experience failure and dissapointment.
We humans need to learn how to loose as well as to win, and learn that some are just better than us or will get opportunities that we may be jealous of.
The feeling of entitlement bread by our 'Bubble Wraping' ill equips our kids to handle diversity and dissapointment and I wonder if this is not being reflected in the increasing depression and youth suicide rates that are being reported.
We all hate to see our kids get 'ripped off' or not get a fair go, but they also need to learn that life will go on tomorrow.

Reply #437480 | Report this post


hoopie  
Years ago

when I'm coaching, I want to watch the play and will put players on the floor to change the game, or to react to what's happening in the game.

I don't want to have to worry about whether little Johnny or Janie got their quota of minutes in any particular game, but I WILL try to make sure they get them over the season as a whole.

If I can have an assistant or manager keeping track of these things then it allows me to do what I do best, which is make the team the best they can be in the circumstances of the game.
I'm hired for my basketball nous, not my time-keeping ability.

Reply #437481 | Report this post


Andrew Clark  
Years ago

I am disturbed by the statement that players and parents are "customers". They are not "customers", Coaches are volunteers who coach for the love of the game and to give kids the opportunity to play at a higher level than domestic. The money parents pay is to cover the hire of courts and to pay referees. They aren't paying for "service" from the coaches, they are accepting the gift of the coaches's time and for this the should be really grateful, not disrepectful and undermining.

Reply #437517 | Report this post


Mike F  
Years ago

Hoopie, you missed the whole idea of what I was saying....

I have someone, even a parent, simply record who subs on for who along with the score & clock time.

This info gives me several things - (1) how did my rotations go, (2) do I need to re-align them, (3) which groups worked well together and (4) how do players perform under different situations (close game, longer time on court, etc.) The added bonus is the tracking of court time - a value add not a drive.

Was able to show a parent how their child struggled when I played them longer than 3min. Highlighted that the player needed to get fitter.

Had my assistant keep the data this season and we were able, during the game, to see if we were having issues with rotations and scoring runs. Helped us out a lot.

Anonymous - Assistants are critical at Junior level. They can give kids feedback on how to improve in game - can't be watching / managing the game and talking to a kid about how they are playing.

Some coaches don't care about feedback as they are watching the game to get the W not to improve the player. Kids need point of time feedback not later on like Seniors. Assistants address this need.

Reply #437518 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

For those coaches stupid enough to lose track of their court time or rotations there's a simple solution: Platoon subbing.

Problem solved.

Reply #437520 | Report this post


Pauly B  
Years ago

#437520 Stop trolling mate, it's really sad

Reply #437522 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Some intersting posts, the main thing i hear is rep coaches, talking about themselves, how hard it is to keep time, how kids don't work hard, how parents are just a necessary evil.

Let me give you a clue, junior basketball is not about you!

Its about the children who play.

Not wannabe Phil Jacksons, if you think in anyway when you take training or coach a game, that its about you your wrong.

Those disgruntaled teachers, next time its on offer take the pakage.

When I coach, I see it as a privilage to be a positive influence on these kids.

I dont read that in many posts in this thread.

Reply #437527 | Report this post


Go for it  
Years ago

We'll said, if coaches can't get kids on the court for a few minutes in a game they are kidding themselves. If they don't' get regular time during games, when they are subbed in they often show no confidence and are scared to try anything in case of getting subbed out quickly. These are the kids we lose to other sports. Coaching directors need to emphasise the need to play everyone, even if only a few minutes each quarter.

Reply #437539 | Report this post


hoopie  
Years ago

Thanks, Mike F - good suggestion.

Reply #437556 | Report this post




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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 3:02 pm, Tue 19 Mar 2024 | Posts: 968,026 | Last 7 days: 754