Solid swap for the Breakers. Lose Vukona but get Wesley who was excellent for United in the finals.

I think NZ won out of this especially as their Freethrow % just went up considerably.

Wesley in and Vukona (at this stage of his career) out is a big upgrade for NZ

(Made this a dedicated Wesley thread.)

Where is this confirmation of Wesley to NZ?

Wesley, an American, we still play as a local next year. Seems very odd, but apparently hes in the process of gaining Aus or Kiwi citizenship

will* still play as a local next year

While the ruling has changed, he's been granted a concession period given his intention/action to naturalise.

Either you are or you aren't.

Are other players going to be granted a concession period if they show interest in naturalizing?

He'd still get a gig in the NBL as an import so this is really an advantage for any team that signs him...in this case, NZ.

Dammit - I got excited thinking we had got Tai Webster as my mind only focused in on "Tai W" on the headline.

Whilst probable, there doesn't seem to be actual confirmation of the signing. Just a tweet from Matt Logue.

If Tai has been granted an extension of the Oceanic player exemption whilst he is undergoing naturalisation process, can't that be scrapped as moving to New Zealand is not intending to or in line with Naturalising process anymore.

Not surprising, I predicted on these forums that Wesley would leave for NZ or Sydney. Teams with either money, or other connections.

Is his wife a Kiwi? Either way, he had at least his first kid while living in NZ, and it's probably a much cheaper- and potentially more family friendly- place to raise a family than Melbourne. And a place he's obviously familiar with.

Good on him. Well done on two great years at United.

I was hoping United would keep him since he'll remain a local. Puts the onus on United to find a good replacement I guess.

His wife is American

Are other players going to be granted a concession period if they show interest in naturalizing?

So every import will now "intend" to become an aussie?

I thought it was because he'd signed a 3 year deal and had a player option with United for next season.

If he moves to another club without becoming an Aussie he is an import.

Liam Santamaria for the NBL:

United have made it clear they are keen to re-sign Wesley but Stuff's Marc Hinton reported that their initial offer "fell well short" of what will be required.

Wesley has started the process, which is quite costly. NBL gave him assurance of dispensation so he could move forward with the process

As a side note to this conversation, if Wesley does end up signing elsewhere than United, doesn't that put to an end these suggestions that United is cashed up and willing to outspend everybody else?

He just won a championship with United. He's won 2 with Vickerman. United knows his value better than anybody. Yet, they're allegedly not willing to pay him what somebody else will. If true then this shows that, despite the delusions of many, United don't have some unlimited budget that they're using to just buy championships.

LV logic.

United bought a championship in 17/18.

But was outbid for Wesley for 18/19.

Therefore United can't have bought a championship in 17/18.

Please go back to Primary school, you missed a few classes.

The reigning view around here is that United has endlessly deep pockets.

How deep can they be, if they let their championship power forward walk away?

Fact is, United is one of many teams with deep pockets.

Why did United let Blanchfield go? He got a better offer from Sydney.

"Could" has nothing to do with it. It's about what they're willing to pay.

LK is worth $750 million or whatever it is- United could've sign Ben Simmons if they wanted to- as an Aussie Marquee player, they could've paid him $70 million a year and gone over the soft cap?

The group who owns Sydney has deep pockets too. Shawn Marion part owns NZ- same story.

Absolute joke that United was able to have 4 imports last season. Farcical that New Zealand will next season

United could still safely OFFER Ben Simmons $100 mill to play next season. It wouldn't break the bank because he’d turn it down. Just as he would’ve turned down any NBL offer.

It’s not just deep pockets that count. It’s about how the league and working in Australia is seen by players from Australia and beyond. We will never poach current NBA players, but we can recruit potential and fringe NBA types.

The NBL needs to market itself to the public and to potential players. Judging by import quality and returning locals, as well as ticket sales and corporate sponsorship, things are looking up.

I'm pretty sure Perth asked Prather to take a pay cut to come back this season he refused and ended up signing with Melbourne for less than Perth paid him the year before.

Neither team may be breaking the rules, but they're certainly being allowed to take advantage of the rules being broken specifically for this one player.

No, if I had a team I would not be happy with said team taking advantage of a rule to sign a 4th American.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise that discussion was limited only to those of the opinion that everything is rosey?

Not sure you understand what a discussion board is all about

There will always be the possibility of confusion when players come from "multinational" backgrounds.
But with Wesley, its actually a little clearer than most. his father is an islander, and clearly Tai identifies with his father's heritage. he spent time in Guam growing up, and has adopted that as his nationality for sports purposes, playing for their national team.
Under the previous rule, that allowed him to play as a local. he wasn't the first, and won't be the last.
(only it has now changed from Oceania to Asia.)
I have absolutely no problem with the NBL grandfathering the rule.

As for a move back to NZ, obviously it should still apply. Wouldn't be very fair if the league said "you can play as a local for any team except the Breakers."

I suspect somebody else hit it on the head when they suggested that Welsey didn't get along with Henare, but presumably likes the new guy.

And wtf any of this has to do with Prather I don't know.

As for a move back to NZ, obviously it should still apply. Wouldn't be very fair if the league said "you can play as a local for any team except the Breakers."

Tai Wesley was able to begin his career in the NBL as a local due to his status as a Guamian American.

The NBL then decided to change the "local" classification from Oceania citizens to citizens of Aus, NZ and selected Asian countries.

If the NBL had not allowed him to play, and his earning capacity was adversely effected (which is highly likely) Wesley may have had legal recourse under restraint of trade and adverse action in employment laws. As a “local”, Wesley's career will also be extended.

By playing for NZ, he is not necessarily jeopardising his chances of gaining Aus citizenship. Is he maintaining his residence of Australia and acting as a “seasonal worker” in NZ? What are the restrictions on citizenship applicants travelling outside Aus for seasonal work?

All of the above would best be answered by experts in citizenship, mployment law and immigration. For the NBL there is only a single instance, so it’s probably best not to open up a can of legal worms just to stop one player who has been good for the league anyway.

I have it on best authority that Prather woke up one morning and said to himself 'wtf am I, a self-respecting professional basketball player, doing working for this shit organisation in this shithole with these shit people?'

Then he left.

Plenty of good authorities known by our anons.

"Respect my authoritie" (South Park).

I liked when an import played what was it 3 or 4 seasons in the NBL all of a sudden they were a local back in the 90s... if that were true now then Wesley has been here long enough to be a local and Rotnei and Prather are on the verge of becoming locals too aren't they ?

Isn't this the rule that allowed Geelong Supercats to have a starting 5 full of imports?

Players have only ever been local through citizenship

I stand corrected then Dome Rat but why was it that say Perth Wildcats had naturalized Fisher, Grace and Crawford. I thought they needed to be here 3-4 seasons to be eligible for citizenship. Has there been a change in our laws that has changed that but I'm surprised we aren't hearing any "Rotnei/Prather/Childress have been here 3 seasons can they become naturalized soon" type conversation that you'd hear back in the 90s with imports like Rucker, Copeland, D-Mac, Rose etc

Copeland was an import from 92 through 2000.

I believe it is harder to gain citizenship these days. Back then lots of guys even in SEABL ( Eric Cooks, Willie Jeanette) where naturalising. I think you could leave and come back where as now you have to stay in Australia for a solid 3 years.

FIBA also stepped in at one point to stop the Becky Hamon and Chris Kaman situations of the past

The rub for 36ers fans is of course that Kelvin Henderson wasn't allowed to play for the 36ers by the NBL despite being an Australian citizen.

Personally I think it is smart strategy for imports as their value increases and their career can be prolonged ala Dusty Rychart

I stand corrected then Dome Rat but why was it that say Perth Wildcats had naturalized Fisher, Grace and Crawford.

"FIBA also stepped in at one point to stop the Becky Hamon and Chris Kaman situations of the past."

I think FIBA abides by the laws of each individual country. Plenty of international teams pay an American a good whack and give them a passport to play for their national team.

That's how you end up with EJ Rowland playing for Bulgaria and Jerome Randle playing for Ukraine at the Eurobasket. Dontaye Draper played for Croatia but at least he played there for a couple of years first!

True Paul. Kaman and Hammond hadn't ever stepped foot in "their" country before representing them on court. That was my point.

Proud - the citizenship laws were changed 5 years ago, to make it possible to fast track citizenship for elite athletes. The change was made to allow Fahwad Ahmed to represent Australia in cricket, in time for an upcoming Ashes series at the time.

I don't know if this fast track process has been used for anyone else (e.g., Lisch) nor whether it's part of Wesley's process.

As posted above, NBL imports have always had to naturalise in order to be able to play as a local. What I'm not sure about is whether there used to be a further requirement to have been a citizen for 3 years before you could play as a local. I believe that used to be a requirement under FIBA rules for representation in national teams (but it isn't today)/. I don't know if the NBL used that requirement as well. Anyone else know?

Here's the requirement for naturalisation:
"People who became permanent residents from 1 July 2007 must have been lawfully resident in Australia for four years before applying for naturalization. The "lawfully resident" test could be satisfied by a student visa or tourist visa or 457 visa, but the applicant must:

- have been in Australia for 12 months as a permanent resident,
- have had absences from Australia of no more than twelve months (total) in the previous four years, including no more than three months (total) in the 12 months before applying,
- have not been unlawfully in Australia at any time in the four years preceding application,
- understand the responsibilities and privileges of Australian citizenship (except for applicants aged 60 or over),
- be able to speak and understand basic English (except for applicants aged 60 or over),
- understand the nature of the application, and intend to reside in Australia or to maintain a close and continuing association with Australia."

My layman's reading of those requirements suggest spending some time training and playing in NZ may not prevent Wesley from becoming an Australian citizen. Anyone know otherwise?

That sounds familiar Peter John. I think Davis/ Grace etc were like that and that was the rule that kept Henderson off the 36ers team

I think Perth used the law you refer to for Redhage

Since Wesley left the Breakers he has still played NZNBL every offseason. 1st season I think he was with Henare/Flavell & the Southland Sharks the first season and then the last couple with Braswell & the Saints.
I'm not sure if that will help him naturalize as a Kiwi being that he didn't move to Australia full time.

"What I'm not sure about is whether there used to be a further requirement to have been a citizen for 3 years before you could play as a local. I believe that used to be a requirement under FIBA rules for representation in national teams "

As I remember, the NBL rule to play as an Australian in the NBL ( at that time) , was that you had to be eligible to represent Australia under Fiba rules.

The NBL owners essentially colluded under an informal agreement to never support any club/player who ( as a naturalised Australian citizen) tried to challenge that rule in an australian court, either as a restraint of trade , or as a discrimination against an Australian citizen.

I cannot remember if the rule was changed because legal action had been taken, or because a legal determination had been made, or if the owners NBL board simply say the writing on the wall, or if the fiba rule had changed.
In anycase it was seen as a rule against a chequebook championship bid by the wealthier owners.

There was all sorts of rorts, a least one naturalised American played as an Australian in the NBL, while still retaining their American citizenship - through getting dual citizenship. Thius is not hearsay, They played in the 1980's and were still able to travel under their US passport in the last two years.

Cheers

As far as I remember

Coach Don Shipway took the NBL to court over discriminatory rules saying that how can Henderson become an Australian citizen yet not be allowed to play basketball in the NBL as an Australian.

The premise being that you can't be a conditional citizen, you either are or your aren't . if you are then you should enjoy the same rights and privileges as all other citizens. Still cant believe the judge upheld the NBL rule actually thinking about it.

There was a rule alluded to previously that meant that even after you naturalised you retained your import status for 3 years.

The 36ers lost and Henderson never played for the 36ers

at Very Old that was also a key point raised by the 36ers. Others had taken dual citizenship and been allowed to play as Australians whilst Henderson had renounced his USA passport so was only an Australian

I think it was around 1990. Shipway only coaches for 2 seasons I think and 1 of this saw the team hit by massive long term injuries meaning the needed to reach out to guys like Henderson to try make a competitive roster