I agree - paul has the best courtside manner - but i have only seen him a few times.

I like Lynne Holland a lot - although all her skill at woodville is negated by a bald headed performer.

Many good technical coaches let themselves down with bad manners
- Paul has mastered that - maybe that is why he is a state coach.

To the anonymous clown who posted "not peter berry or michael touhey (tuohy) - obviously you are a bitter woodville person upset that they have left.
GET OVER IT - both of them have left for better clubs, and the way some of you woodville tossers carry on here, who can blame them? BTW, I am sure neither of them would believe they are the best current junior coach in adelaide, so give it a rest.
the fact that you and others keep carrying on about them proves that you DO rate them, otherwise you wouldn't bother posting this crap - SO LET IT GO

where has pete berry and touhey gone?

or has the bald headed warrior struck ?

sad to see woodville people attack others for the sake of our club cut it out

michael still see you are worried about the spelling of your name tuohy

in fighting especially on open forums is not a good way to portray our club

so like get over it said....GET OVER IT!

and keep from self destructing

u16 div 1 boys at forrestville - and sa metro u16 boys

where is pete berry gone - or has uni and family life caught up

Lynne Holland is the best going around. Peter leaving Woodvile was done in a way that should not have happened. First he was leaving then staying anjd then he left. This made the under 18's lose the services of Lynne, and for this I have lost respect for Peter. Peter if you read this think of other people and not just your self.

I don't feel I can let the above post pass without responding. Firstly let me say I agree with get over it and anon - the infighting, including posts like old school's above, does not portray Woodville in a very good light. Although I have now left the club, I will always have a soft spot for Woodville - it was the club I played at as a junior, and also the club where I first coached as a 17 year old, when Vera convinced me it would be fun!
Old School, you clearly have NO IDEA of what went on regarding me leaving, so don't get on here and post rubbish like you have. There was a lot more to it than what you obviously realise, and I don't think a public forum is the place to explain.
This is my first and final post on this matter, so how about you all take the advice of the sensible people above who have suggested you let the matter rest. If you want to know the rest of the story, come and ask me. Failing that, go and see barb in the office and she'll set you right. It's also hard to be too concerned that you have lost respect for me when you hide behind an alias - if you want me to take you seriously, post your real name.
Also, to those who feel the need to post crap regarding Michael, let me say that as Coaching Director it was me who offered Michael his first Div 1 job, and he NEVER disappointed. He thoroughly deserves the opportunities he is now getting, and is a very talented young coach.
LET IT GO people - what's done is done.
BTW, 'gospel' - no family life and uni haven't caught up just yet - I am now at Norwood, coaching Under 18 Boys 1.

Scott Butler would be my pick. While he isn't all that tactful his knowlege of the game is second to none

Hoopin,

Curious your comment re tactful. Is that to do with his embracing Sturt's zero tolerance policy. I was never so uncomfortable as I was last year when during a time-out when he publicly berated a teenage umpire on a call. Just as well they were "only" 30-40 points up!

Isn't this post about the better coaches in adelaide & people's opinions on that? It certainly isn't about two coaches who have left a club.

Paul Arnott gets my vote

.... can I smell a new Hoop Addict top 25 list??

Keep sniffing :-).

Isn't this just a revival of a thread from a couple of months ago? The conclusions of that thread were that you can't say that any one coach is better than any other, there are too many variables.

However for the purposes of discussion here are some of the very best coaching performances of 2004/04 (in my view):

Wayne Beaumont (Sturt Under 12 1 Girls) - undefeated and bronze medal at Classics.

Boti Nagy (Fville Under 12 1 Girls) - moved away from the rest and pushed Sturt all the way every time they played.

Paul Harvey (Sturt U/14 1 Boys) - undefated and bronze medal at Australian Champs, first SA team in 5 years to medal at that championship.

Jeremy Combe (Fville U/14 1 Boys) - most improved team in SA in any grade.

Marc Wallis (North U/16 1 girls) - team with not a lot of height but subjected opposition to relentless defensive pressure to achieve outstanding results.

John Gillies (West /18 1 Boys) - Had major injuries most of the year and still contended at Classics, State Champs and end of year.

All men Scotty...your not sexest are you???
You still haven't dragged yourself away from that computer?
Guess you haven't stopped smoking your steaks either???

1 s, I have no idea what that means, but anyway! Gender was not one of my criteria when picking, but honourable mentions to Carlee Patterson and Nicole Johnson who got the most out of their groups.

I would love to know what makes a great coach? All the coaches above had all super teams. All 'recruited' well and really did not have to work hard to maintain results in SA. Are you a good coach if you have super teams and continually win or are you a super coach with not great groups, but you manage to maintain them to be competitive in various grades? I am not taking away from the stronger clubs for the work that they do or squads that they have had but there are major gaps between some of the grades between top and say 'middle of the road'. I don't doubt that the coaches listed above can coach, but I question whether some of the special groups that have come around each year have meant head coaches have not had to work as hard as some. The results at classics and nationals have not been that great.

I think that if you re-read the above post you will see that Wayne Beaumont finished 3rd at the Classics and Paul harvey finished 3rd at the U/14 Club Nationals. That is some pretty decent results inter-state.

A good coach is one that can maixmise the talents from his/her group of players. As stated by "in the know", this doesn't always result in championships, and only the players and regular spectators (usually parents) can fully appreciate this.

That being said, an extremely talented group of players can be the toughest team to coach, so just because a talented team succeeds, doesn't mean the coach had an easy ride.

In the know, to say that those people did not have to work hard is just not true. And not all of those groups were considered great. Take Jerry's Under 14's. We played them the very first game and they struggled to get it over the half and lost by 80. 11 months later we were down coming into half time against them, and we had improved considerably too!

It's different coaching a good group to an average group or a group that struggles, but it is no easier!

Having been involved with good groups that last 2 years it is easier in that they respond better to demands placed upon them in training and in games, but there is more pressure on you and the players to perform. Remember you are everyone's grand final, so you can't let up for one moment. Don't think for one moment that it is easy to coach a good group, it's not. We have seen some good groups implode this year because of external pressure placed upon them by parents in particular.

The less talent the harder it is to make improvement, but the less pressure to perform. Moral victories are easier to obtain than scoreboard victories. I must say that I have respect for the coaches that stay up-beat and positive when they are down by lots. In 14 Boys Ryan Franchesinis did a great job with his North group by staying positive.

What is easy, however, is to ride the coat tails of the same great group, year after year. There are some of these coaches around!

This is all very entertaining stuff. Honestly - no sarcasm intended. But here's my gripe.

While I think it's fantastic that so many people are taking such an interest in junior basketball coaching, what does rating coaches/players/teams/clubs really achieve?

These sort of lists generate a lot of discussion, both on the forum and off it, and are, in general, just a bit of fun. But when you start to think about how much time is spent rating or commenting on people, rather than on doing something to improve the standard of coaches/players/teams/clubs, you start to wonder what the point is.

Clubs survive because of countless hours put in by volunteers. Commenting on peoples performance in a public forum (be it by description or ranking) doesn't do anything to help SA basketball. If you have spare time, why not volunteer to help out your club in some way (say coaching/umpiring/administering, etc.)?

Or (like me) is this just an excuse for people to avoid their day jobs? :)

I don't think its meant to achieve anything. Its not like coaching directors are going to come on here and base their decisions on appointing who people like. Like you say its a bit of fun. Not everyone can be in a basketball stadium 24/7. People love the game and love talking about it.

Steve took the forestville group to a championship over North with just a little help from Abbey (originally from North) Rachelle (from Sturt).

Scott, I am not saying that these coaches do not work hard and I agree that being the hunted is not easy, I am just saying that game time is a little easier. And I agree that are coaches that follow good groups through and hate that! Unfortunately people still think these coaches are great coaches.

Doooh!
The two results that you mentioned are correct but if you look at all the top teams or teams that went through the season undefeated they did not fair well at Classics and some State groups were average.

In the know, I agree. Results at Classics/Nationals were average this year! Why? Not the quality of coaching! For the answer, see thread on competition strength, promotion/relegation, double div 1's etc, but that is off topic!

Scott,

I like your comment re: coaches. Generally I think Div 1 coaches are good but they each have different circumstances and must vary their approach to suit the group of players they have got to get the best out of them. I admire how they continue to commit to their teams, striving for small improvements in the ongoing face of continual drubbings.

Do you really think Sturt U14B lost the Classics due to us not having promotion/relegation? Personally I don't think so. The teams coming in may have been marginally better than a couple of the bottom teams but for Sturt U14B to have the benefit of a stronger Div 1 comp you would need to have limited the Div size to 4.

Jirachi, I agree 100%. I don't believe that the Bob Knight thread (in which I posted photos of Alf, Webster and Gary Coleman) had a positive effect on SA basketball. It did amuse me for an afternoon, though probably not too many other people!

I'm just wondering if our time (mine included) could better be spent elsewhere. Discussions on promotion/relegation, double div 1s and domestic competitions are, in my opinion, more fruitful than who are the better coaches going around.

Having said that, not everything on this forum needs to be about saving the world, and people can obviously post whatever they want, within Isaac's guidelines.

SAW,

I didn't see the U14 nationals (and not that you were asking me anyway!) but here's my (more general) thoughts.

I've no doubt that SA teams would fare better at national championships if the players competing were subjected to more regular close competition in the local competition. Without even getting into the merits of promotion/relegation/double div 1s, etc, I think that the current situation, in which there is a large disparity between the top and bottom teams in most divisions, is detrimental to our chances interstate, and until that problem is rectified, it is difficult to see our results at nationals improving.

In the Sturt U14 boys' case, I do know that the club organised some games against Melbourne teams in preparation for the tournament - a clear indication that the Adelaide competition alone wasn't providing them with the standard of they required.

The debate re promotion and relegation/double div 1s is always contentious, and I don't have a clear argument either for or against either. I would think that most people would agree that the current situation is not ideal.

Paul your a funny man. Agreed, I think these forums are here simply to avoid real work!
Would love to see your Bobby Knight post if it's still on here?

Yes they could be worse. But the question is could they be better? And can we put aside club politics to do what is best for the next generation of junior players.

While their is no simple fix, not looking for an improvement will only continue to restrict the development of the players in our competition. While we contiue to have clubs getting division 1 spots that they do not earn we will not have competition. Pro/rel by itself is not the answer, but the question is, is it going to make clubs work harder and IMO it will.

If we have pro/rel then all coaches will be able to show what development their players are able to make by how they finish teh year against similar competition rather than by saying that they had the best team or the worst team at the begining of the season and finished in the same spot.

Pro / rel = good

Just refine the model.

Paul, thuis is an open forum on 'ball - within reason we should accept the basketball scene as a whole and benefit from healthy debate.

the jokes all help the good times roll - I really enjoyed your pictures of alf - however we are all dissapointed no photos of gun dad at the doime have surfaced.

wether it be regarding social basketball at Ingle Farm recreation centre or NBL - it's all welcome here - as it says "Hoops SA the home of basketball chat in SA"

a legend

u cant capture him on camera, hes to fast. read the gun dad sections. im sure that paul wouldnt no him

my vote to john gillies, u/18 div 1 at west adelaide great commitment to the boys, very organised coach with great passion for the game

4th at Classics, no?

And two points from a GF?

He gets my vote. very gratious winner aswell. Never cocky after a win.

i reckon that nicole johnson is a guru she is an unbelievably good coach.

who does nicole Johnson coach ?

there's a bloke at woodville that looks like alexi sale - he is the best

she coaches norwood under 14 boys and i think was the under 16 girls state assistant coach

alexi sale who

alexi sale is a british comedian (hello john, got a new motor - was a song he released)

bald, always wears a tight suit - absolute spanner

Geez, I've obviously upset you (or your parents or your son). You could have talked to me about this personally, but you chose a public forum to air your grievances. Who has the communication problems?

Fact, when I came back from Qld, I chose the worst team in the club (16's and we came 3rd and qualified for Classics). Since then I have had good teams, but hey, there haven't been too many bad teams (in fact any).

Fact, our retention rate for older players is good and getting better, but for players going into coaching it's very high. They wouldn't be coaching if they didn't love the game. As for respect, well plenty of ex-players still come to me for advice or a chat, so I couldn't be that bad!

You are right on one point however, I do play favourites, those who play hard. (Sorry Jazzy, had to use that one!)

Whoever you are come up to me this weekend (or any other) and we'll talk about your points above. However my guess is you are a gutless sniper and I will never know who you are, except as Anonymous!

PS Don't reply on here, this forum isn't for public slanging matches. It's just arkward for everybody. Be a real man (or woman) and reply personally!

I have always picked and played my favorites, thats what I do.

Wow...Just caught up with this one.
Theres little to complain about at Sturt, who is doing a better job in SA at the moment?
There are pockets of great stuff at other clubs, but nothing like the consistency of Sturt.
Scott has been the same style of coach as long as I have Known him , all would come in with their eyes open. He does not try to be something other than what he is, a damn fine coach. The other traits he has also been consistent with , so he fits perfectly into the title of this thread.

Best Current Junior Coach in Adelaide.