Good call Dana!

I don't think people are necessarily writing them off, more just venting their frustrations at how things don't seem to have changed at all.

I also don't think it's fair to label them (us?) fair weather fans. I know I'm often critical of Smyth and the organisation, not because I only back a winner, but because I care enough to WANT them to succeed. I'm sure the same can be said for the vast majority of "angry" posters on here.

When blatant & elementary mistakes are made, whether it be on the court (no timeout) or off the court (Ingles), I think people have every right to be annoyed & frustrated with what's going on.

Frustration, purely frustration because on paper our roster is better than what showed up last night!

1. First home game.
2. Lack of training - team not used to each other (or aware of one another) underpressure.
3. Completely new team
4. I love Dana and Majstrovich
5. Thats about it.

I think the most important part of these first 2 weeks is not getting any injuries. Playing 4 games in 2 weeks in an enormous ask especially on the road for 3 of them. Smyth would of rotated players to try get full use of them in a close game for the win, but at the same time be conservative and not over extend players in terms of injury and energy for the up and coming games. I think that's why wheeler didn't make a return. Just my opinion though.

Dana i agree with you 100%. We had to play Sydney in our first home game with a completely new team. To my mind there were MANY good signs out there i was extremely impressed. I mean when have we ever had the luxury of two talented centres in a starting 5 line up??!

I'm very excited about this season, when they click - it will beautiful to watch.

Sydney have two new imports, one who has been here two weeks, a new centre, lost their All NBL point guard, Crosswhite got injured in the second and their leading scorer got fouled out when they were down by 7 with 3 minutes left.

Plenty of excuses for losing there.

Wouldn't fair weather fans have quit in 2003?

I'm personally not a big proponent of the "real fan" and "fair weather fan" concepts as a defense of criticism. If someone wants to avoid criticising their team no matter the circumstances, so be it. (You're either overly positive or a sucker!) If others want to express their opinion or frustration, I support that 100% too.

(I'd rather see the positives emphasised rather than the "REAL 36ers fans" vs "Fair weather fans" competition where combatants need to roll out how many seasons it's been since they missed a game, or how their new son is called Willie Maher Majstro-Smith.)

In some cases, if people are saying (as I have) that the game experience felt "flat", then that is an observation rather than a judgement. Admittedly, some of the posts last night and today have been fairly strong, but I don't know if many have been entirely without merit. It's not the first time, to use two examples, that Smyth has been criticised for sitting on his hands or that Farley has been questioned for his work ethic.

There are fans who would renew their season ticket even if I was coaching the team and my starting frontcourt was Nino and his two cats. (Actually, that would be worth $300 to see.) I'd call them suckers in that case, but that's their call.

Then there are fans who really like the game, follow the team, but will either raise their voice or vote with their wallets if they don't like the tack of the ship. Everyone has their line.

So, some fans are more fickle than others or have their line drawn at a different place in the sand, but generally speaking, everyone's paying their $20 per seat, and empty seats mean something - don't like Wednesday night games, don't like 7PM games, don't bother paying when it's on Fox, think it's too expensive, find the venue too hard to get to, don't get excited by the roster, don't love the coach, hate the music, think the cheerleaders are ugly, and so on.

As I've said elsewhere, part of my interest in it all is wondering why people didn't show up. And I think you can make a few general calls in saying that some of those things weren't the cause. The music can improve, but I liked most of it and think Jerry will do just fine with the music. I think the cheerleaders' second-half uniform is hot, the new girls look good, and Amelia is back, so who could possibly complain?

Maybe first-game, Fox, Wednesday, 7PM were factors, but we've had bigger crowds first up before and we've had great crowds as recently as last year for Wednesday Fox games against shoddy opposition.

So all I can put forward is my opinion on the rest and that is that the roster, to me, is uninspiring. Last year, you had guys that you'd watched from their very first game and you felt real attachment to them - this season, the only prospect is Hill. I think Ng is great, but I don't picture him signing up for a life of basketball. Majstrovich did well last night, but most of us don't really know him like we have seen Hill from his first NBL games. And that's the extent of our game-time youth.

Maher and Horvath are superb, but what after that? All great guys and not an ego in sight, but Copeland, Wheeler, Nash and Cooper are not ticket sellers like Martin Cattalini and they're not the Jacob-Oscar duo that you watched play their rookie season - there's no sense of ownership. I like to see Coops do well and watched his ABA games this season, but did the other 2000 people who didn't show up?

Addition: Different things matter to different people. Some are attached to the brand of the club, others might look at the boxers before they go to the fight, and for me, a lot of it is the atmosphere of the games at the Dome and who I'm watching play.

Sydney are all shooters though. Worthington may have been leading scorer, but him being fouled off just means he's replaced with an even more confident shooter.

Kendall, Smith, Elliott, Sheridan, Rowland... They are all compentent of stealing an assy victory.

Dana
I am a fan
I have forked out $600 on season tickets
As a paying member I have the right to critise.

If your child was doing something consistently wrong, whether it be at school or home and you could see that long term it was going to harm said child, wouldn't you say or do something to correct it.

If said child wasn't doing homework all the way through year 12 you couldn't realistically expect the child to sail thru the exams.
You would expect the child to be studying hard from week one. Not saying oh its ok Mum I'll be ok as long as i do the homework in the last few weeks before exams. Or doesn't buy a book. Would you be a bad mother not to try to get the child to put an effort into passing a vital year.

This season is already three weeks old and all we are getting is excuses. As a paying, seat on bum, Gold Pass member of the club, all I'm saying is not good enough, I expect better, I expect an effort from our star import, I expect (heaven help me) the coach to actually coach, have a game plan, do what many other coaches do have a structure for when the run and gun dries up.

I expect the team to play better defence than an u10 side.
I don't expect to be told by the coach that it will take 5-6 weeks not 5-6 games but 5-6 weeks to gel. Sorry not good enough. Unless they start producing, even if they lose, better basketball than they did last night I'll be asking for a refund on the first six weeks of my season tickets.

Sorry Isaac, posted at the same time. I was replying to thedoctor. I agree there are excuses, but i dont think that sydney we're 'finished' (or in a bad position as such) to lose worthington. Many others capable of leadership and scoring the points.

...not to mention all the Boomers players who recently returned from the world champs in Japan. They must be hopeless too (NOT!)

I don't think that the entire issue is the loss of the game at all. We all know that Brett Maher doesn't usually screw up like that - last week he did the exact opposite in a finish that we would've killed to see happen at the Dome!

Farley's work ethic, Smyth's passion, the crowd at the game - those are largely independent of the result and nothing to do with Boomers players coming back from Japan.

I guess I must be old fashioned.
I never leave a game early, I will buy a season ticket even if they come last because I have always supported the team, 'supported' being the key word.
Talking of kids, some people will try to get their kids to play sport and will encourage them even if they lose. Many people hate those parents who yell out abuse from the sidelines. You've gotta feel sorry for the kids who have parents screaming at them. Maybe that is why many of them give up sport as soon as they don't measure up to expectation?
I would hope that those who have kids will consider how all that negativity labelled as 'constructive criticism' will impact on their childs confidence over their lifetime?
Rewarding positive behaviour is known to be more successful than punishing negative behaviour.
And I reckon much of this will work with adults as well as kids.

I realy enjoyed the game last night, I was a tad dissapointed in the crowd numbers more people need to be getting there to support the boys. Of course I was shocked that we could blow the lead we had in the last 30 seconds, and I agree that Phill definately should of called a timeout in the dying minute. There is nothing wrong with stating the facts about what went wrong with your team but to call for Phill's head or start a send Willie home fund, and talk so much crap about the guys just shits me off. I hope that you guys drilling certain team members were actually at the game... People who didnt come out and support the team shouldnt have much of a say in the issue.It was a great game, and to bad not to come away with the win. Good game for the boys hopefully next time we are in a close one we can finish better and get the win. I thought Maher, Horvath, Mastro, looked great, Ng, Coops, Wheels and Nash all looked good as well out there... Farley didn't show up till crunch time but helped keep us in it and finished with 21pts, Copes didnt realy do much to impress but Im a big fan of his and Im sure he will be a regular contributor once they settle into the swing of things. Thats 2 guys out of 9 that were questionable on the night.

I cant wait until next Friday to see the guys in action again. Hopefully there will be more of a crowd to get behind them.

GO SIXERS!

I take offense at anyone saying that I am not a real fan. I have followed the Sixers as closely as anyone over many years. If I want to choose to finally say a few things that need to be said, then I will do so.

To me, blindly sticking up for anything in life - without considering and discussing any negatives shows naivity and immaturity.

To all those fans that we're at the game, who went up to the appollo restaurant after the match to listen to Paul Bauer talk to Coops, Copes, Horvath & Brooksy. I did and from what I saw is that they too were gutted with the loss and knew it was unacceptable. Phil was also upset with the loss but we have to get over that one and look forward to the next one! If we don't we will lose that one too. So all you fans, put that game behind you, get out next Friday and yell & scream for your team to get over the Hawks and maybe even go back to Apollo Restaurant to listen to the players. Apparently they are going to try and get the whole team there as well as the coaching staff every week - maybe then you could advise Phil what you would have done differently and ask Willie to go home if you have the guts. I can tell you I will be there yelling and screaming and supporting any player who is prepared to put on the 36er Jersey and play their heart out.

Your last 4 words say it all...

Shocking end, spewin about the way we lost,Sydney shot the lights out.Agree lot of the problem was due to lack of court time together for the 36ers.I hope the team gel's and Wheeler plays more minutes,alot of positives though.

The crowd was a little small but the 'No Gary No ' nicorete guys and uni students dressed in plastic tarps added character!

Dana, in response to your comment 98360, and in particular the last line, I guarantee you that if Phil Smyth walked out to training and focussed on the "positives to come out of last night's game" (I don't know, maybe the Navy Seals getting on tele) they would come out next week a hell of a lesser team than if he went out there, gave them the serving they deserve and made them train their absolute arses off.
Just my opinion, always worked when I was on the receiving end (provided it wasn't too often).
To compare kids with adults in situations such as competitive sport is not right. You're talking about kids playing for a bit of fun compared to adults playing to pay the bills and entertain others

Tony

When my child does something wrong, or incorrect, yes I correct him....why...because I have the experience behind me to knwo what is wrong and how and / or why it needs to be fixed.

MOST people that post on this forum have absolutely zilch coaching experience at NBL or WNBL level, so therefore, whilst they may know the fundmental aspects of coaching, and may be quite good at the level they coach at, they just dont have that experience of saying "I coached the NBL for x years and won x championships".

I wonder how many people would be asking why Phil called a timeout (if he had of) when we were up by 5, and appeared to have the momentum.

Realistically, who in the Adelaide fan base would expect Brett Maher to turnover the ball twice in a 30 second period, especially in clutch time? Yes, maybe he should have called a time out, maybe it wouldnt have acheived anything at all.

Instead of all bitching when we are 1-2 after the first week (and look at the travel the team has had and therefore lack of training time!!) we should all be getting behind the team, and supporting them for the next game that they will turn in a better performance.

Just remember, things could be worse. We could have West Sydney for our team!

The African American Maher wouldn't have committed those turnovers, and would have resulted in a lot less discussion about the game...

Damn you anglosaxon Maher....

well posted yogee!

And can I stress the importance of all fans to get behind their team, rock up to the game, make loads of noise and then go back to the Apollo Restaurant at the dome and have some bevvy's with the players!!

Yogee and others

You are of course correct in saying that most of us not happy with Phil's performance have zero NBL coaching experience. However, this does not necessarily make Phil a better coach than everybody else. Fact is that there are some extremely well-qualified coaches posting on this forum, including ABA coaches. Phil has had the chance to coach at a higher level not because he is a better coach, but because his profile as a player AFFORDED him opportunities not offered to others. SIMPLE FACT. Australia has many very very good coaches who are not coaching at the highest level.
Example: is Phil a better coach than Rob Beveridge because Phil has coached NBL and Rob hasn't? Those that have met or been involved with Rob will know that Phil is not even close to being in the same league.

Phil is not above criticism Yogee, regardless of who he is.

Isn't Phil Smyth the one who keeps winning the 'Coach who the NBL players most want to play for' or is that wrong?

" I wonder how many people would be asking why Phil called a timeout (if he had of) when we were up by 5, and appeared to have the momentum." --- Yogee

At some point the coach has to take responsibility when the game is tight and not just sit on his hands.
Inactivity by the coaching staff in this case COST us a game. You are playing a team who has many weapons - you protect your lead by running some plays that get you a foul or run the clock down . Mahers slip was unfortunate, but the game was still winnable at the point where Kendall hit the 3.

The only good move i saw Phil make last night , was pulling Darren off when he coughed the ball up for a couple of lay-ups in the second half handling the PG role.

oh .. and " Just remember, things could be worse. We could have West Sydney for our team! " --Yogee

So we should accept mediocre performances just because they arent a league worst ??

C'mon Yogee. I think someone put too much rum in your picnic basket.

Methinks they doth protest too much!

They will come good my friends.

Have faith.

Our squad will become cohesive.

Do we have an official crowd number?

Anon 98409, I disagree with you on 2 points.
1. At least most of the people on this forum put a name to their post. Your post means nothing to most because it is anonymous.
2. Michael Jordan was a great player because he trained and played harder than anyone else in the world. Ever heard someone say that every night he turned up to play his motivation was that someone, just one person, in the crowd hadn't seen him play before. He was playing for them. If Willie had that kind of attitude he would win MVP.
Do you remember the bulls when Jordan was playing baseball? They struggled to win half of their games, and only did because of his return. They weren't that good.
In saying what we are saying here we are not trying to communicate to Phil, Willie and the rest of the team. We are simply discussing amongst ourselves how we saw the game last night. That is what a forum is for.
The Sixers stunk, and as a team that has many, many people pay their hard earned pineapples to watch them play and as professionals in the public arena, we have every right to criticise them.
Life ain't easy sometimes, but that's how it is

In reference to your comment on taking darren of skyhook. i thought personally that that was not such a great decision. I know that Darren is a confidence player and anyone who has seen him play at ABA level should agree. Darren made 2 consecutive stuff ups and was dragged... wrong call.. taking him off shatters his confidence. letting him play lets him rectift his mistakes. see him sitting on low points for a period i the game. players continued to feed him the ball because they believe in his ability. The guy hits a couple of shots and with in a matter of minutes hes on 11 points. let the kid play i say, hes a confidence player.

why its bad we loss, there is no need to shred the team a new one. Its sucks, get over it. how many times have we lost games like this? last year i seem to remember us winning a hell of a lot of them. One thing though, cant the players call a time out? it its that bad i'm sure they have their wits about them that that can call a TO. just look forward to next week.

IMO :Commenting on or being critical of a coach or a player does not mean that you're not a worthwhile supporter of any team. Discussion, provided it is not on a personal level, is healthy.
IMO blindly following someone, or something without question, is not healthy and leads to apathy. This forum is an avenue for open discussion on all aspects of the game, and anyone who cannot accept that others have a different point of view to themselves , should get a life.

I thought the team played paricularly well last night considering they are a new mix without much experience playing together. All the crticisms have come about from the sheer frustration of how the game was lost when it was won in the last 12 seconds. We had possession of the ball while also being up by 2 points. It was just pure unexpected bad luck the Brett would slip over with the ball in his hand. The one mistake whilst during the course of the game may not make much difference, was actually the culprit for losing the game for us. If that one mistake had been avoided, everyone would now be singing the praises of what a great team we have and the best coach to coach them. It takes very little to change one situation from a negative to a positive.

Dana you started this thread with "I would love to see some real 36ers fans on here for once...." That was bound to get some criticisms as I don't know how you have determined that there are not many "real" 36ers fans that post on this forum. You need to define what a "real" 36ers fan is and then perhaps people that do fit into that category can stand up for themselves.

players can call a time out, but if you leave it up to them to make those decisions, then why the F@#% pay phil to make those decisions. i think most people agree that phil f@#$ed up, i only hope that he realises that!!! I dont coach at NBL level but i do coach at U18's national level and i can assure you if i made the same mistake i would get crusified, im not asking for phil to be sacked but he needs to be open to critisism...,

I guess my personal idea of a REAL fan is someone who supports their team both when they are winning and even more so when they may not be winning.
I personally like to hear good things from time to time, and I suppose I become a bit weary of the pretty much constant negativity at the start of the season.
All I'm saying is that there's a long way to go, and some comments I've read along the lines of people having wasted their money on season tickets when there has only been one home game so far, I think may be a little premature.
Also, the Kings have several players from the national team in their midst, and these have played quite a bit more basketball over the past 3 months than the 36ers, so maybe the idea that the sixers need 5 or 6 more weeks to gel and get used to each other may not be as unreasonable as what some people think.
I think they did well to be in front, and it's just a shame that a couple of turnovers were so costly.
It sounds like at the same point of the game in Wollongong, they managed to win without the 'slip-ups' etc. Things can so easily go one way or the other.
It's very rare for any team to go through a whole season undefeated, but sometimes it sounds like that would be the only way to please some people.

What do you think Ng and Cooper have been doing all off-season? And Horvath? And Wheeler pre-injury? PLAYING.

If the squad hasn't been training, then whose call is that?

The Kings were training long before the season started, by choice.

You're putting up a straw man argument - criticism of Farley's work ethic and Smyth's hand-sitting are not new and thus your talk of the Kings, the slipping over and Boomers is entirely irrelevant.

Is an intervention supporting a loved one when they're "not winning", or is that not being a "real" friend?


In The Know, official crowd number was 3,980.

It might be irrelevant to you Isaac, but when I was asked to explain my views, that's what I was doing. So it IS relevant to me since I started this topic and I was asked to explain myself.

Point of Order.....
I, like everyone else, am entitled to express my opinion on here. That's all I'm doing.
Cheers!!

EC - none of my criticisms have been because of the turnovers in the last few seconds.

And I would not have been singing the praises of the team if they had ended up winning. My problems with the game last night had very little to do with the end result, and a lot to do with some disturbing trends that have been getting worse over the past few years.

As I have said before, if we won I would have walked away with a sour taste in my mouth. And I can only remember that happening a handful of times in the many years I have been watching the sixers.

Ive watched many losses. One loss in itself doesnt really bother me at all. Its a lot of other small things that bothered me about the game. As others have said, it was very flat. There was a very small crowd. I thought the defensive intensity was awful. Farleys attitude in the first 3/4's was disgusting. The coaching was sub par and nothing had changed at all in terms of style or plays even though we now have a legit big man. And as Ive said before - I completely dislike the signings of Copeland and Wheeler - and last night did nothing to prove to me that going 'old' was a good move.

Part of following a team is looking to the future and watching your young players develop and feeling a sense of ownership. I look to the future of this team and its quite scary. Nothing has been done to prepare the Sixers for 2 years down the track when Maher retires. They should have been throwing everything they could at guys like Newley and Ingles, even if it meant they lost out on signing some veterans.

Hill was touted as a player that may have the potential to step into Maher's shoes - yet he is getting no minutes and could very well walk away at the end of the season.

There are definate problems. If some people want to stick their heads in the sand and pretend there is nothing wrong then all power to them. I won't, and I won't accept being told I am not a true fan.

Kwest,
Who told you you're not a true fan?

Since I was one of the more vocal poster's since the game I assume your initial post was directed at people with my take on proceedings.

A few other people have been pushing the 'if you were a true fan you would be encouraging the team not criticizing them' line.

Kwest, there is no guarantee that getting all the right juniors now and training them up is the future for our club. They can just as easily jump ship after a couple of years of putting everything you've got into developing them and then they become an asset somewhere else. What have you achieved in the meantime while putting all your blood, sweat and tears into them. You've run a team of inexperienced players that won't win you championships and then you lose them when they become geniune contenders. I'm not saying that is what would definitely happen but Oscar and Jacob are a good example. I believe you've got to put together the best team you can within your budget constraint and strive for the championship. You know each time I see Hill play, I get the same feeling I do when I am sitting next to my learner driver daughter. I get nervous because they are not experienced enough and I lack confidence that they will do the right thing. Juniors need to come in as development players but never to replace veterans.

We spend 100k on Wheeler but cant find the dollars to keep at least one of Holmes or Foreman. That stinks.

Each time I see Hill play I get excited that he attacks the hoop without fear and gives the Sixers a slashing weapon that they otherwise dont have.

Of course he's young and of course he will make mistakes. But did you see the amount of mistakes Copeland made?

Would you really tell me that Copeland's 'experienced head' was more enjoyable for you (and more profitable for the team) Wed night than if a young kid was out there busting his backside and taking it hard to the rack?

Obviously veterans are needed, and Maher, Nash, Horvath would provide great veteran leadership. But if you are saying you prefer the signings of Copeland and Wheeler over signing some fresh young talent then I have to seriously disagree.

"box me out" and "Dana", my point is Sydney are as much a new team as we are and had plenty of reasons why they should have lost that game. The Sixers actually looked good until the last few minutes, and should have won. The "new team" excuse doesn't cut it for me given how the game panned out.

To say that losing Worthington wasn't significant because he was replaced with another shooter is ridiculous. The guy was scoring from everywhere. Sheridan is no Worthington!

I think Phil is hoarding his time outs in the hope that when he leaves or stops coaching he can trade them in for a cash handout. like some industries allow their workers to cash in their unused sick leave in certain conditions.

Wrong, wrong, wrong Phil
your allowed 2 in the first half and 3 in the second half they do not accumulate

Maybe people can go and see him after the game at the after match functions being organised and ask why he doesn't call time outs if you are so worried about them!!

Kwest - and once upon a time, Maher would've been making inexperienced mistakes.

Or if you want youth and future with a bit more experience, get someone out of college as Goorjian has done with a number of the Kings.

Anon 98510

Just giving you other options to see if you can actually change the way Phil coaches.

The challenge for you anon is to see if you can get around the words he spins!!

lockstock..he shoots and shoots true! you cut through the slime and grime and tell it as it is.
dana, i appreciate your desire for posts about the 36ers to be positive, but constructive critisism and healthy debate and discussion is a necessity in development...in ANY field, business, sport, personal..
next game we shall all shout out, 'up and in brett!' 'good try!' 'bad luck, better luck next time'.. and at half time the can enjoy some oranges.

Agreed Anonymous 100%! Once again Phil is making excuses before the game even starts! This year is a big change for the Sixers generally as we all know and this would have been the perfect time to also change the coach so we can move into a completely new era.
My observations from the game on Wed night included:
1) Sure Darren Ng has some real problems with defence, but his 3 huge 3 pointers in the second quarter actually allowed us to be somewhere near Sydney at half time - so Phil decides to sit him down for virtually all the second half. For those who have seen Darren at ABA level will know that when that lad gets hot, he will sink everything. Sitting like Phil did would totally sap his confidence.
2) The lack of use of apprropriate time outs by us continues to amaze all
3) Can someone please tell me what Mark Nash has over the coaching staff, week after week I see a non event out there (even though he did have 10 rebounds fall into his hands against Sydney. Did anyone notice how prepared Sydney were to let Nash have the ball? And what about some of the shots he missed from about 4 feet out!
4) Copeland looks as though he may be a waste of time, even though the season is only young (as opposed to Copeland!)

As a paying spectator, one has the right to criticise and it is not necessarily the job of the crowd to get the team moving, the team and coach also have responsibility to enthuse the crowd.
Let's look forward to a lot better effort against Perth tonight. There going to be lots of people watching a lot more carefully this year. Coaches have to be always accountable, the time for excuses is fast coming to an end.

Do you believe everything you read in the papers?????

Why not turn up to the game next Friday, rock up to the after match function and talk to Phil yourself?? That is all I am saying!

Just like you are making excuses!!

And your excuses are:

"Why would I waste time talking to him?? "oh yeh from now on I promise to call timeouts when I shoudl, to not sign boring old players." As if"

"If Phil keeps getting paid to coach, he wont change. I have seen through the words he spins and thats why I am critical of his role with the team. I would like to see him move on and give someone a fresh chance"

"he just spins words in every situation"

Dana,

You've called me a fair weather fan. I know you have tried to qualify it a bit later on but everyone here knows who you were talking to in your first post. So let me do some sums for you.

Firstly, I'm a university student. During uni I make around $288 a week before tax. In reality 36er tickets costs me 1 and a half week of work a year. On top of that each year I buy the new polo top, the new jersey and everything else I can get my hands on. Easily over 2 weeks of my work goes towards the 36ers a year before parking, food at venue, etc.

Last year I could see the 36ers were going to struggle with crowds. So I got a whole heap of 2 for 1 tickets from Isaac and from Potsie in the office, and went around to schools handing the tickets out with promotional material and a write-up for the schools to put in their newsletters. I can't even remember the amount of schools I went to but I went to schools as far as Glenelg all the way to Parafield Gardens to Ingle Farm. On top of that every single person I met during that season I tried to get to basketball games. I easily would have got at least 50 people who never went to basketball games to go. I went to social leagues as far as Wayville to Mt. Barker giving out these tickets, as well as recreation centers. I have no idea how many people I got to the basketball who hadn't gone for a while, but every game I would walk in past the game-day ticket purchase line and couldn't make my way to the entrance as I would be stopped by so many people I know. I didn't do this for any gain, I got nothing out of it, and I did it because while everyone else was on here complaining that they paid X for the price of season tickets and there are now $15 tickets, I just wanted to see the place full and the club healthy, so I did something about it. I complained on here like everyone else about mistakes by the management, not for the sake of it, but to hopefully point the people in charge in the right direction and make the club healthier. I think it worked somewhat that season, action was taken, the place was full towards the end of the season and the atmosphere picked up.

Lockie, just while on this point, when I criticized the board last season, I was actually coaching with a then current 36ers board member. Seeming as I did that, I will have no problem asking Smyth about his time-out uses in the Apollo restaurant, and actually planned to last Wednesday, but went upstairs, saw he wasn't there and decided that I didn't want to hear his excuses anyway.

The current two season-ticket holders I go with never gave basketball the time of day until I paid for them to go with me to a game a few years back and have been hooked ever since. I haven't missed a game for four years now except for one pre-season game and the trail scratch match in Barker this year.

I am currently writing this wearing last year's 36ers singlet and game shorts. I have at least 3 player jerseys from the 2003-04 (the club's worst on court since 1997) and have jerseys from all the years back to 2000, as well as every little stupid piece of merchandise from key rings, to practice style shorts to those annoying hand clapping things. All these while paying for university books, going to work, and saving up for a house. I currently eat 90 cent tuna for every meal. A lot of my disposable income goes towards basketball and the 36ers.

I've been following the 36ers for as long as I can remember, and that goes back to watching tapes of the games on channel seven late at night, when I used to watch in the morning because I was too little to stay up that late.

I have bought season tickets this year. I knew crowds were going to be terrible this year, as everyone I talked to didn't want to pay to see Copeland and Wheeler with Smyth going thru the motions once again. I knew many people who didn't want to go as the same mistakes that happened with Newley have been repeated with Ingles. I knew crowds would also be hurt as people want to see local players they saw playing juniors, or they knew someone who played with them as a junior play, as opposed to journeymen like Majstrovich and Cooper. There is no sense of South Australian ownership over this team this year. I knew the crowd for the first match was going to be terrible as the sale happened so late not much could be done by the new owners, with tickets only going on sale last week for the game. Knowing all this I still bought tickets. The reason why is because I will support the club thru thick and thin. What I won't do however is watch a lazy coach, who has had second chances in the past to fix the error of his ways bring this club further down and not say anything about it. I'm not going to shut my mouth while a coach who has constantly underachieved since 2002-03 helps drives crowds away with his terrible recruiting and style of coaching.

The fact of the matter is Phil Smyth now coaches a boring and frustrating style of basketball. I can stand losing. I would have loved to see a team of Newley, Ingles, Hill, Forman, Holmes etc out there right now making rookie mistakes but being aggressive. Losing with a team like that wouldn't hurt at all. People would be excited to go watch Hill attack the rim, Newley develop and Ingles explode onto the scene. Instead I'm stuck watching a retirement home for two of the most boring players in the league in Copeland and Wheeler.

It isn't also the losing; it's the manner in which we do it. I could stand losing in the time-out was drawn, a play was made up to get the ball in and someone the Kings managed a awesome steal and a half-court shot for the win. I could stand Willie missing a whole heap of shots if he was aggressive, moved off the ball in the motion offence and hustled for loose balls. I could stand him getting beaten off the dribble occasionally if Willie actually tried to stick to the fundamentals of defense and recovered when beaten instead of waiting in no-mans land not ready for the break or to get a defensive rebound. I could also stand all this if Smyth would actually get his match-ups correct and used his time-outs correctly. Not ready for a trap? I spent the whole off-season talking to a whole heap of people and we all realized it was coming once Ng was announced as the back-up point guard, yet Smyth seemed not to be ready. I've gone back and watched the tape and late in the second quarter when Sydney is making a run, the trap is causing a headache, Worthington can't be stopped and we are struggling to score Phil called a time-out. Did he address any of these points? No, he simply crapped on about the umpires, who actually called a few crucial 50/50 calls in Adelaide's favor. I can't understand why he did, because it's going to have no effect on league standards, and all it is doing is pushing 36er fans with some knowledge away from basketball and towards Adelaide United as they can see he clearly isn't interested in coaching this team anymore.

EC, who says we would lose these players anyway? The reason we lost Oscar and Jacob wouldn't be money. No young player gets anything out of the current 36ers program.

Dana, as for Smyth being the coach players want to play for. I'm sure many veterans like the idea of slack trainings, not many team rules etc. But would they actually move to Adelaide and end up like Charles Thomas. Why not ask some of the ex-players who have actually played for Phil what they think of him or better yet, some who actually play for him now.

This is where Adelaide stands right now. We have a team this year which got lucky to win one game because Cortez Groves went down and Daniel Joyce had to run the point for the Hawks and by all accounts couldn't handle the situation, while his father called his number far too often. This team has the potential to get a few big wins off the brilliance of Maher, Horvath and Willie, if Majstrovich, Cooper and Nash can hit a few shots to keep the D honest. We will finish anywhere from 6th to 10th, and be out the finals in the first round. We will get thrashed on the road, and crowds will continue to fall as the losses mount up. I spoke to 3 people who bought single game tickets on Wednesday and they won't be back again this year with the current roster. Crowds will average around the 4,000 mark for the season and Hemmerling will make a lost on his investment in his first season.

If Smyth doesn't improve now, he should go. There are plenty of better coaches out there, within this state as well. Get someone who will build a program for the future, try to resign Hill and build around him playing the 2 spot. If Smyth goes Maher may walk as well, but try everything to keep him. Wheeler and Copeland will be gone. The just try to sign youth from there.

If Smyth stays, we are still stuck with Wheeler and Copeland. Hill will be gone. We will just be stuck trying to get some more unwanted veterans. Crowds will stay away, Hemmerling will be sick of losing money and the 36ers will die.

How many more years of underachieving will it take from Smyth before he finally is held accountable?

Dana, if you are really concerned with my attitude, I always show to 36er games early, I would be more than willing to chat to you Friday before the game.

I have this vision of DC as a Matrix-style battery with a techno-umbilical tube connecting his wallet straight to the 36ers' bank account.

Ha - and he is like Neo battling the evil Agent Smi(y)th

Respect the DC.
I just hope someone is home with him to put a cold flannel on his forehead when he awakes at night in hot sweats!

DC, please believe me, my comments were not directed in anyone in particular, and certainly not at you. I don't even know who said what, that's why I started a new thread. I was commenting on my general perception of many of the posts I have been reading on here at the start of the past few seasons.
I wouldn't know, or worry about who said what. I am happy to put my name to my posts. I don't have a pen name.
May I suggest you phone Talking Hoops about your concerns, many of which are perfectly valid. They certainly have a wide audience, including Brett Maher who is often right there, and also Phil Smyth listens in as well as Boti. It is a sure fire way for you to be heard.
They are always looking for people to phone in.
It's a shame you feel that my comments were directed at you. I don't have any control of your feelings, but I didn't aim this at you, or anyone else in particular.
The good thing is that it has resulted in some very healthy debate.

Thanks Charlie!
Nice post DC, love it.

Dana, it might've been how you opened with:

instead of all these Doom & gloom 'sack the coach...sack the players' fair weather fans!!!!!!

Fair point Isaac.
Sheesh, gotta be careful in these anonymous forums. People are in danger of taking things personally.

Charlie I hope someone is there to work him up into a sweat

You cant polish a turd Dana. How did you think DC would take it ?

Ah..sorry...forgot that School holidays have started. I guess there goes the tone of this place.

And that relates to the current conversation, how?

You posted "'sack the coach...sack the players' fair weather fans!!!!!!" and two adults in DC and Kwest (who had started or commented heavily in the coach/player threads in question) took exception to being termed "fair weather fans".

What have school holidays got to do with it?

I was referring to Skyhook there....

I'd love to get my hands on one of those annoying little clappy thingys!

And that relates to the current conversation, how?

LOL??

Double Clutch, I'm in awe of you for being so passionate, and also because it would take me 7 weeks to type a post that long.

DC if the Sixers lose tonight's game in Perth, there will be people with much more authority than you and I who will be putting his head on the chopping block. This is already their 4th game this season and 1 out of 3 is shameful. Particularly a loss at home on Wednesday regardless of which team we played. Last season the team won nearly all their home games and that is with 3 team members that Smyth was was ready to dismiss without a fight to try and make "improvements" this year. They are down 24 as this post is being written.

Thats pretty funny Dana. I use that one too sometimes.
Maybe we DO have ONE thing in common .
Its the fact that you cant handle people making honest and critical comments about Phil Smyth and the team that worries me about you.