Years ago

New 36ers PF import, John Williamson

(Thanks to the other people that rushed to post too!)

199cm/6'6" forward.

College profile

Great finisher around the rim ... versatile player ... very athletic ... likes to rebound on the offensive glass.
Full name is John Nathan Williamson ... born Aug. 19, 1986 in Columbus, Ohio ... son of Carl and Cennie Williamson ... has one brother and one sister ... cousins Maurice Wells and Alfred Williams played football at Ohio State while another cousin, Michael Redd, played professionally with the Milwaukee Bucks ... majoring in criminal justice.
From the 36ers' release:
The former University of Cincinnati Bearcat MVP, played last season for the "Honka Playboys" in Finland where he averaged an impressive 17 ppg and ranking the second highest with 8.6rpg.

Head coach, Marty Clarke said that Williamson is an uncompromising competitor with outstanding statistics.

"We have spoken to many people about John's abilities and there is only praise for his determination and skills. We are thrilled he has agreed to join the 36ers next month. His ability to finish around the basket is something that attracted us to John. We believe he will be a nice fit for us" he said.
In the full Finnish season, averaged 19 and 8. Takes the occasional three but doesn't make them (20% or so) at the same clip as he did in college (35%+). 61.6% from the field is pretty impressive. Doesn't look to be brilliant from the stripe or known for blocking shots, but was collecting a steal per game.

Prior to Finland, in 2009/10 played in Sweden (23 PPG, 9 RPG), Poland (18 and 7) and the Philippines (26 PPG, 10 RPG). Year before that was the second league in France I think. Good FG% wherever he's been.

All that aside, cue jokes about the Australian singer with the same name...

Topic #26001 | Report this topic

Years ago

Looks like a bit of a Playboy!!!!

Reply #325431 | Report this post

Years ago

Very interesting signing. Makes for a very athletic group of players all around the same height.

I am bagging John "True Blue" Williamson BTW

Aussie As Williamson 6'6
Creek 6'5
Weigh 6'6
Herbert 6'4

Looks like we got some ATHletes.

Reply #325433 | Report this post

Years ago

Was named to the first team in the Finnish league by Eurobasket, was their Centre of the Year and made their all-import team. Might've played a bit off the bench? Hard to tell without trawling boxscores.

Interesting that he played centre as a 198-199cm guy when his team has a 6'11" guy playing reasonable minutes. Jared Newson (ex-Cairns?) was one of Eurobasket's favourites in that league whether that gives us much indication of standard or not.

Could be something of a Rosell Ellis with an inch or two extra in height? Maybe not unlike a Galen Young or the guy the Crocs dumped (name escapes me) in that athletic inside type? Just guessing though - not sure how much we're likely to find on YouTube of this guy.

Reply #325435 | Report this post

Years ago

Isaac you say jokes about the musician, i am going to go down the composer path.

Wow our new import has 5 Academy Awards and 21 Grammys.

Let the Saga Begin

Reply #325436 | Report this post

Years ago

He looks like he gets to the basket strong and finishes well. However it is hard to tell what the standard of defense is like in Finland I wouldn't imagine it would be that strong.

I guess he only has to come off the bench to play limited minutes for Ballinger. Its a shame he isn't taller so he could play some minutes at center as well. Looks like Clark wants to limit ballingers minutes and perhaps play this guy at small forward sometimes also

Reply #325437 | Report this post

Years ago

I think you might be thinking about John Williams? Otherwise there'd be a great A New Hope joke.

KJ, I think they have some versatility and lots of options for Marty to play whichever combo he deems best. What remains to be seen is how much the defense improves, whether they are a better group at holding together when the pressure lifts at the end of a game, etc. Even just having Herbert and Ng back should improve the 3P% issue from last season.

Reply #325438 | Report this post

Years ago

ok i will make up for that with a nice dunk v CSKA

Reply #325439 | Report this post

Years ago

pretty sure that was David Anderson in that clip too

Reply #325440 | Report this post

yep good get  
Years ago

Looks like he commands the ball in the post and would be a good fit with balls more on the outside.

also is a lefty which is good

Reply #325441 | Report this post

Achtung Baby  
Years ago

Strange signing given our talent around that height already.

Must be Looking at playing Johnson and Ballinger big minutes at the PF an C positions.

In saying that... I really hope Clarke doesn't go back to his ridiculous idea of starting Ballinger at C, with Williamson at the 4 and Johnson off the Bench.

If that's the case, I might be looking to rid myself of my season tickets before the first game even starts. If I could!

Rotations could look like this:

C - Johnson[30]/Ballinger[5]/TBA[5]
PF - Ballinger[25]/Williamson[15]
SF - Weigh[25]/Creek[10]/Williamson[5]
SG - Herbert[25]/Ng[10]/Creek[5]
PG - Warren[30]/Crosswell[10]

Under Marty everyone seems to get a fair amount of mins. But would love to see starters play bigger mins, say 32-34. Especially Johnson, Ballinger, and Warren.

Honestly he looks like a good back up PF, that could play a few minutes at the 3 spot when weigh sits. Given Ball's is such a threat from outside, could really stretch teams if all 3 bigs on court together. Unfortunately not sure this signing allows much court time now for Darren? or does it slow Creeks progress and minutes?

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bretts the man  
Years ago

Thought Sixers after their disaster Import selections last year might have gone with a known import or known imports from NBL etc.
But clearly rolled the dice again but both look very good and Williamson should add some excitement to team.
Anyway can only hope .
Sixers have really gone out there to get a brand new team and giving it a good shot.
Hope he lets them play to their ability

Reply #325443 | Report this post

Years ago

BJF - quite the handle for a PF! I was watching the video waiting for the guy top right to cut to the basket then thought "Their PG with a tomahawk?!"

Achtung - there's the challenge: find minutes for everyone. You can want to see big minutes for starters, but then Ninj is pretty devastating, Crosswell still burns teams and knows the league, there's an import potentially coming off the bench, and Creek stuck behind a Boomer. Just remember that the successful teams seem to be running deep squads.

Reply #325444 | Report this post

Achtung Baby  
Years ago

Agreed Isaac, but he is only devastating if he has a good PG to get him the ball. For that we'll wait and see. I still think Herbert gets the bulk of minutes at the SG because of his ability to defend, where as Darren struggles with his shadow... I think ten minutes will be his average this season. can easily get up 5-8 shots, and run off lots of picks.

AS for Crosswell, I think his minutes will be determined by Warren's play, and/or Foul trouble. but would probably not be expecting any more than 10 to 15 minutes a game.

This new Guy looks to be a very athletic SF/PF. But 6th man seems to be his destiny

Reply #325445 | Report this post

Years ago

He looks ok but sounds like a cheap signing.

Reply #325446 | Report this post

Muzz Buzz  
Years ago

Here he is playing HORSE

Reply #325447 | Report this post

Years ago

Anyone else see a similar comparison of Carlos Powell. Ok might not have the same range but a similar playing style.

Reply #325448 | Report this post

Years ago

Worst game of horse in history ever

Wiliamson has an obsession with one handed shots and Westphal loves the pussiest fade away ever.

And since when were dunks allowed in horse. Williamson can't even dunk!


Reply #325449 | Report this post

Years ago

One of the biggest issues we had last year was our interior defence. Ira CLarke and Big Luke would have improved this area. WIth Balls, Warren, Weigh, Hebert,Johnson etc scoring is not going to be a problem. We have not resigned one of the best rebounders in the league (Holmes) but have signed an import who is the same height (undersized). I hope he works out but it will interesting to see how we line up

Reply #325450 | Report this post

Years ago

Interesting signing hope it works out, being a lefty could make him slightly more difficult to handle down low.

Side note, If Clarke plays his players even minutes this season, like he insisted on last season (when the season was still not worried about it when its over may aswell play the kids then) this season will be another disaster, and Clarke wont be able to show his face in Adelaide again! We have some legit go to guys now, let the MEN play and play hard IMO. 40minutes is nothing compared to the 48 they have been used to for so many years.

Reply #325452 | Report this post

Years ago

looks like your Import has a jumpshot where Holmes doesn't ;)

Reply #325453 | Report this post

Years ago

Mills just tweeted about joining the sixers, interesting!

Reply #325454 | Report this post

Years ago

hope his is not going to be a true blue flop good luck to the 36ers though alot of changes lets not have the excuse of game 7 from last year we are still gelling excuse.

Reply #325455 | Report this post

Years ago

Achtung I reckon you're spot on. This guy will start at PF, and stay there, with Ballinger at centre again.

But he's a new face at least and that has to bring some new hope.

Clearly a rebounder. Hopefully a defender.

Reply #325457 | Report this post

Years ago

From the highlights I have seen doesnt appear to have much of a right hand. In all the highlights I have seen I dont remember once seeing him finish with his right hand.

Reply #325459 | Report this post

Years ago

Some games that may help people see stats wise where JWill is at

V Ty Mckee

V Brad Newley

Russian national team members

Some very solid and consistent numbers there.
May help give people an understanding of the league he has come from.

Reply #325460 | Report this post

Years ago

Great handles for a 4 man. rod grizzard anyone?

Reply #325465 | Report this post

Years ago

Patty_Mills Patrick Mills
"@skipstrudwicke: @Adelaide36ers have 1 spot left and a full 10 points in the points cap. Needs to be Australian. Hmmm. #nbl11" lol hmmm

Reply #325466 | Report this post

Years ago

Worried about the height, but apart from that. Looks ok.

Reply #325467 | Report this post

Years ago

If we are worried about how Ng's minutes fit in, we have the wrong priorities.

First time I've heard Darren described as 'devastating' outside of the ABL. He is a fantastic open shooter, but he can't get to the line enough or create his own shot. Has value to stretch the D, but if he played 10 mins a game it would be about right. His minutes will probably be in reaction to specific match ups.

Looks like a solid workhorse guy who likes to rebound and scores at a good clip.

Doesn't look like his height was an issue for him in other leagues.

Reply #325468 | Report this post

Years ago

Can he bring his cousin Michael Redd with him??

Reply #325469 | Report this post

Years ago

@bullldog Ricky Grace?

Reply #325471 | Report this post

Years ago

doc, I'm looking at Darren from that 'blast of points off the bench' perspective. He's shown ability to score 15-20 a game in patches when the minutes have been there. When there are other shooters on (Herbert, Ballinger) and penetrators (Crosswell, Creek, etc) then he will get his shots and be valuable.

Reply #325473 | Report this post

Years ago

Thought they might have signed Lester Strong as the import as he is very close to being a True Blue Aussie.

He might even be released before he has any Yum Yum Pig's Bum Xmas Pudding, but you never know he could Rip Rip Woodchip it and have a good season.

Reply #325474 | Report this post

Years ago

I think he's going to be a solid 15 and 8 player for us and he looks like he can push the ball up the floor which will open things up a bit. Does use his left quite a bit, even when finishing around the basket but his high FG% assures me a little it doesn't matter too much.
My biggest concern with our team is we really don't have a very good defensive unit, especially our bigs but almost all the way through. The only guys on our list that are reknown for their defence is Herbert and Crosswell after that who is there???

Reply #325475 | Report this post

Years ago

He looks to have a very quick and deceptive release on his shot.
Reminds me so much of Kevin Brooks when he shoots the ball from range. (Just the way he shoots the ball folks).

Reply #325476 | Report this post

No Deal!!  
Years ago

Panther, I tend to agree re defence, but Creek is a fantastic defender as well and he is only going to get better. Ballinger is an improved defender IMO and Johnson has all the tools to be effective defensively. I think if Marty can get these guys all on the same page we will be fine.

Reply #325477 | Report this post

Years ago

Who knows how good of a defender both Warren and Williamson are as well......they could both be very good?

In any case, maybe we are following suit of our championship teams and the champs of last year where you dont need to defend as much if you can outscore the other teams?! :-)

Reply #325479 | Report this post

Years ago

if we still have a full 10 points left get a aussie boomer like luke nevill to cement ballinger at pf have williamson off the bench and have DJ as our scoring punch off the bench. hows that

Reply #325480 | Report this post

Years ago

TJ that is unrealistic. If you can convince Nevil to leave his European club that is paying him what $200k to $400k to play for us for about $50k-$70k then I am all for it.

Reply #325481 | Report this post

Years ago

sounds good tj

title contender

Reply #325482 | Report this post

Years ago

Phew, what a relief.

When I heard we'd recruited J-Will, I thought for a moment that Jason Williams was making a comeback!

Reply #325483 | Report this post

Big Marty  
Years ago

I'm gonna be pissed if DJ isn't starting for us this year. I'd rather have an import off the bench.

It's either that or Williamson is starting SF and Weigh is starting SG. But for F**k sake, please not Balls at the C.

Reply #325484 | Report this post

Years ago

Classic clip selection Muzz Buzz!

Would have preferred someone a little taller who could play centre. As someone pointed out, if we want a 6'6" rebounder we could just resign Holmes. I therefore hope that this guy can shoot it much better than Holmes and use his superior athleticism to crash the offensive glass and play good D on some of the mobile PF's and SF's around the league.

Flinders, that is an interesting twitter from Mills. Could just be him stirring things up for a bit of a laugh, but maybe there is still a chance the Sixers could sign him. I certainly wasn't expecting it, given the composition of the team, but it would be cool seeing him in Sixers colours for at least part of the season!

Reply #325485 | Report this post

Bobby Tables  
Years ago

I agree with Big Marty...though the problem with Balls at C is not so much that he's out of position (even though he is), it's that if he's playing C he doesn't get the ball down low and create offense, either by posting up and taking the shot or kicking back out to someone.

I'd love for the Sixers to get a real inside/outside game going where your big guy can be your first option on offense, try to create, then get it out if nothing's there. All this "pass it around on the perimeter" is a load of bollocks. I'm glad we have a guy that looks like he can get to the ring.

Reply #325486 | Report this post

Ballinger Fan  
Years ago

I could see Adam coming off the bench, but in any case DJ must surely start after the way he finished last season.

Also if they sign a back up centre who uses a lot less than 10 points then they could use those points difference plus say Darren's points and bring Mills in for say Darren. That would give the team a lot more continuity. I cannot image this back up centre yet to be signed would actually play that much anyways so no sense in using too many points for him.

Reply #325487 | Report this post

Years ago

Wow after seeing how this has panned out, wouldve been better to recruit Luke Schenscher as your '10point import type', yes folks pay the man, and then utilise the other 10 pointer latter in the season if need be on a moderate import, ala the Garrison addition all those years ago. This hasnt changed anything as far as poor rotations, Balls will find himself in foul trouble and unable to get touches on offence for long periods! If this was the master plan from the get go after seasons end, then the brains trust isnt all that basketball savvy imo.

having said that, guess anything can happen, and maybe this guy or Warren end up being the equivalent of untapped resource that took the opposition too long to scout and by then they were THE dominant force of the NBL!

Reply #325490 | Report this post

Years ago

Yea i was also thinking Ballinger off the bench in the same sort of role Dusty played in Cairns last season.

Williamson looks like a decent signing for me, averaged 13pts, 6 rebounds, 1 assist in France a couple of seasons ago, (i think the leagues he has played in since are slightly lower standard) which im pretty sure is a decent league guys like Abney, Farley played in France before coming to Australia, they both did well in NBL, so am assuming its of similar level, so im expecting atleast what he got in France, and hopefully providing a good presence inside at both ends and some hustle and defence and ill be happy.

I reckon Williamson could play 5-10 mins at C ala G Young, Ellis, meaning basically you have Williamson on with one of Johnson or Ballinger for most of the game, as i got the impression that Clarke didnt really want Johnson and Ballinger on the court together for long stretches last season.

Lets just say dreams come true and we get Mills for our last spot, unlikely i know, but i can dream, my rotations would be.

C Johnson (25 mins)/Ballinger (10)/Williamson (5)
PF Williamson (25)/Ballinger (15)
SF Weigh (20)/Creek (20)
SG Mills (20)/Herbert (15)/Ng (5)
PG Warren (20)/Mills (10)/Crosswell (10)

Total mins per game

Mills 30
Williamson 30
Ballinger 25
Johnson 25
Weigh 20
Creek 20
Warren 20
Herbert 15
Crosswell 10
Ng 5

Reply #325491 | Report this post

Years ago

Coach was on Ten Sport describing him as an undersized centre! No joke Marty !

I can see him starting Balls at 4 and this bloke at the 5. At least the bloke near us who enjoys yelling out "rebounds" every time we miss one should have a record year :-)

Reply #325493 | Report this post

Years ago

Centre on offensive now worries got really gd post moves. On d no bloody way. Geez we better be able to out score teams. By his footage he looks like he can play 3 positions none of which is the 1 and most importantly the 5. He reminds me of rod grizzard only 2 inches shorter and he wasn't a 5 man.

Reply #325494 | Report this post

Years ago

What part of his videos made you think he'd be able shooting guard? Seems to be largely a post up player.
With Ballinger as the face up shooter who can stretch the defence as far as 3 point range, Johnson as the mobile pick and roll athletic big and Williamson as the post up big, we have a good variety in the way our bigs can score.
Teams will really struggle to defend all 3 players. Might be able to match up well with 1 or 2 of them, but would have trouble with all 3.

Reply #325496 | Report this post

Years ago

Rhetorical question, but how tall was Rolan Roberts?

Reply #325499 | Report this post

Years ago

Just watched a few highlights and his style reminded me a bit of Chris Williams from the Kings first title, not saying he is as good, but would be over the moon if he is, but similar style of player, so should be well suited to the NBL, and will be happy if he is half as good as Williams was.

I agree he brings variety to offense, and i think he could play minutes at SF, PF and C, remember guys like Young, Ellis, Rolan Roberts, Rychart, even Mark Davis are only 6'6 and all have played plenty of time as C, so im not too worried aslong as he plays hard, both ends, he will be ok to play 5-10 mins at C if required.

Reply #325500 | Report this post

Years ago

Watch his handles. Can dribble the ball down the court if needed, was just a point that he can play at a stretch 3 positions but not the 1 we need. His only 6'6 why is Clark saying he is a centre? I'm all for giving him a chance but not as a 5 man. Now we have 3 players that can play the 4. People were saying about team structure with mills. Least he is a star. We havnt really addressed our Interior defense which was our major concern last season.

Reply #325502 | Report this post

Years ago

Chuck Hayes started at C in the NBA 2 years in a tall is he again???

Reply #325503 | Report this post

Years ago

Anon 5490 - were you not here when we tried to recruit Schenscher this season? He played us like a fiddle, and used us to up his T'ville offer - money had nothing to do with it, we were prepared to pay to get him.

Reply #325504 | Report this post

Years ago

chuck hayes is about 6'5

Reply #325505 | Report this post

Years ago

Chuck Hayes wasnt much of a Centre, not like anything ran through him at all on offense. Not competing with the Crocs for Schenscher's signature will have massive repercussions this season im sure of it. But this is what fans have now, and like usual i will buy my season tickets, and like usual i will probably end up frustrated and need a few quick drinks after every game to get my night back on track! Ill be happy when Ballinger is out of contract, very overrated in Adelaide's fan bases eyes IMO.

Reply #325510 | Report this post

Ballinger Fan  
Years ago


how old is that HORSE youtube!
how old would those two dudes be now,

that's funny...

Reply #325520 | Report this post

Years ago

I think this guy is exactly what the Sixers need. With three very different big men they can now match-up on what other teams throw at them, and also create mismathces other teams have to react to. Clarke simply didnt have the tools in the frontcourt last year to be able to do that.

It is heartening that Williamson has put up some good numbers against some of the power clubs in Europe, but remember so had Taj McCullough, so it is a case of wait and see how he goes in the NBL.

But mobile, athletic undersized PFs go very well in the fast-paced NBL - Brooks, Timmons, Freeman, Mackinnon, Williams, Worthington, Petrie, Vukona, Redhage etc etc.

Reply #325524 | Report this post

Years ago

Paul we have 3 bigs all of which none can play centre. can people stop thinking of offense and think about defence which was our major concern last yr. We leaked to many easy points in the paint.

Reply #325527 | Report this post

Years ago

Johnson is a centre and he will continue to improve. They key is team defence, and I think the team is in a better situation to do that more effectively than last year. Signing a Mottram type as a backup centre who can be physical in the paint in limited minutes is the last step required for mine.

As for last year (and the year before), I thought getting scores in tough situations was every bit as much an issue as the defence.

Reply #325528 | Report this post

No Deal!!  
Years ago

Paul knows whats up. Get a Mottram type as back up C and we are fairly well balanced. We wouldn't be any worse than most of the other teams defensively. It's all up to the coaching staff to put together some good team defence, and all the guys on the court to work for each other.

Reply #325535 | Report this post

Years ago

We lost around 10 games last season by two shots or less.

The 3p fg % was the issue for mine.

If that is increased to a high 30% average we would have won a lot more games last season.

We have the shooters who can hit at a high clip it is vital that Warren and Crosswell can find them open looks.

Defence was fine last year it was the offence flow and conversion that was a concern.

Reply #325536 | Report this post

Big Sexy  
Years ago

The team we finised with last season

Shannon and Carter
Howard and Bruce
Hill and Creek
Holmes and Dowdell
Ballinger and Johnson

This season's team

Warren and Crosswell
Herbert and Ng
Weigh and Creek
Ballinger and Williamson
Johnson and Australian Big (Mottram)

How is this season team not better than last even without knowing how good the imports are.
Herbert is an upgrade on Howard
Weigh is an upgrade on Hill
Williamson is an upgrade on Holmes (without even seeing him play)
Crosswell is more reliable than Carter
Ng and Bruce are a coin flip

Reply #325537 | Report this post

Years ago

I dont think Schenscher would have been the answer to any defensive deficiencies we had last year. From memory we were killed in a couple of games from poor perimeter defence more so than interior.

Any centre is going to struggle if the perimeter defence doesnt stop guards from getting in the lane and making it a 2 on 1 scenario in the paint!

Herbert will help in this area a bit, Warren is an unknown and Weigh/Creek will hopefully step up.

Schenscher is slightly better than DJ defensively but DJ is better offensively and I think the sparity between the 2 lands in DJ's favour!

I for one am glad the Sixers didnt pay ridiculous money for Schenscher otherwise we would have had a much more budget team than what we have now. From what I have heard DJ has put in a lot of hard work in the off season and it is paying off. Plus, DJ has many more years and a lot more room to develop than Schenscher does!

For those that think Schenscher at any cost would have been the saviour are kidding themselves, the team is better without him!

Fans this year should go an support and have a little patience. The Sixers will be back where they should be but probably not this year! With young guys like DJ, Weigh, Creek, Warren the future is looking good!

Reply #325538 | Report this post

Bobby Tables  
Years ago

Adam - I was probably the guy near you bitching about rebounds :P It's just frustrating that you have a professional team that is basically unable or unwilling to perform the fundamentals. Seriously, if I win lotto I'm going to front the cash to bring Jeff Van Gundy out here to coach us; to hell with a three year plan, we'll win it in the first year hahaha.

I go back to something Wilt Chamberlain said on an NBA vid I had called 'In the Paint' - "You can't win without the ball".

Reply #325539 | Report this post

Years ago

Please not Mottram. Pero would be my preference.

Reply #325541 | Report this post

Years ago

Tornado, Schenscher would've come at a cost besides his own pay and that would be who else they could put around him. I talked with a 2009/10 player recently and I can't remember the exact combinations he mentioned were planned but the roster plan if they got Luke was otherwise quite weak at PG (I think it was), certainly not as strong as Warren and Crosswell could be.

Marty seemed reluctant to play Balls and DJ at the same time last year and the alternative was Holmes (lacks a bit on offense) or Dowdell (more of a role player). If anything, Williamson could run with either Balls or DJ and gives us something new up front. Could be quite complementary for Balls especially.

I don't think Balls at C is the horror everyone claims. As he said himself, PF and C in their system was largely interchangeable. Hopefully the difference this time around is who he's with in the frontcourt - harder to collapse on Balls if Williamson is anywhere near the key if he's the finisher or penetrator he's advertised to be.

Reply #325544 | Report this post

Years ago


How often did Wilt win though.

Reply #325545 | Report this post

Years ago

Isaac, thats exactly what I was getting at with Schenscher.

I prefer the team we have without him compared to that we would have had with him.

Reply #325547 | Report this post

bretts the man  
Years ago

I agree with Big Sexy that even if our imports are only half ok they would be better than last years and we look to be physically stronger and more balanced than last year .
Think Clarke did a valuation of what he wanted and has gone at got best possible to suit.
Now all he has to do is get some defensive structures happening and general teamwork and give them some leaverage to do their thing.
Last player please not Mottram try someone with a bit of aggresion who in short time allocated make presence felt. Think Pero could do that and dont know too much about other options

Reply #325548 | Report this post

Jack Toft  
Years ago

Was that him playing horse? Judging by the shorts it looked like it was the 1981 mid-west regional knockout???

Reply #325549 | Report this post

Big Marty  
Years ago

Ceres, Wilt was one man; if anything was proven in the NBA finals this past season, is that teams beat talent.

I'll be honest and say that the team is looking way better talent wise; here's hoping the team gels more.

Weigh and Creek: That's arguably one of the best Forward duos in the league right now. The fact that they sub one another is rather bonkers if you think of the possibilities.

Croswell and Herbert: Two toughnut defenders and surprise scorers when required. Think having Croswell, Herbert, Creek & Weigh on at the same time at some point in the game offers and mobile and tough defence with a strong fast break counter-punch.

Balls, DJ & Williamson: If there was a Wittman's Sampler of Offensive variety, you've got it. You cover post, face-up, pick, pop and dunk with all 3 players. Hopefully the fact that you have a guy who loves offensive boards, will allow Balls or DJ to be more reckless in offense knowing that there is a good likelyhood of getting the ball back on a miss.

Ng and Warren: Two guards who are more than happy to camp it up from the arc. You combine that with Williamson and Balls and their mid-range style; then you have what BobbyTables was saying: an in-out offense.

The combos are there and the talent says we have a well balanced team; execution should be the only worry once again.

Reply #325550 | Report this post

Years ago

Mottram is out of the picture now.

Pero and Vanderwhatsit now the front runners.

Reply #325551 | Report this post

Years ago

Anyone who says Mottram lacks aggression or does not make his presence felt has never watched him play. That is pretty much his main attribute, which he showed during the injury plagued year he was previously here. I would be disappointed if he is out of the picture, because he does all the 1%ers and knows how to splash towards the basket off of penetration from the wings, which would be perfect for the 8-9th man in the Sixers' rotation.

Reply #325554 | Report this post

Years ago

Isac - re: Ninja - I think we are saying the same thing in terms of his usefulness to the team. I'm sold on his value against particular teams as an impact player, or to try to change the momentum of a game with a few threes, but I don't think he should be getting the gauranteed 20 mins a game.

My point was that we should fit his minutes around an import signing rather than the other way around. I like the fact that we resigned Darren.

Reply #325560 | Report this post

Years ago


Reply #325561 | Report this post

Years ago

So do people believe we are still looking for another big man? Or another guard?

Im still not sold on Herbert starting.

Reply #325575 | Report this post

Years ago

Our best 5 is probably Warren, Weigh, Williamson, Ballinger and Johnson.
We probably could run them in the starting 5 with the variety of skill sets they have.
Probably would be close to the hardest combination to defend in the league, but could be exposed on defense. Damn sight better than the Ballinger, Holmes, Hill, Howard and Shannon combination we used last year.
I wouldn't gift Herbert the starting spot over Williamson without him earning it.

Reply #325579 | Report this post

Years ago

Love the optimism Big Marty and I hope you are right.

But on paper I am of the opinion that last year's team is better than the one signed albeit close.

On paper Shannon's resume is ridiculously better than Warren's. No direspect to Warren. He is just coming out of college. However, Shannon had played in all the big Euro leagues and had Chris Anstey who is obviously familiar with the NBL predicting he would dominate.

Howard likewise on paper before he arrived appeared more impressive than Williamson.

Both Shannon and Howard impressed more in their first games off the plane than after they had settled into the offence.

Despite wanting to be optimistic, I can't agree that a back court of Warren, Croswell, Ng, Herbert is better than Shannon, Carter, Bruce, Ng or Winder, Devries, Carter, Ng, or whatever combination you prefer.

A front court of Creek, Weigh, Williamson, Ballinger, DJ is better than Creek, Holmes, Dowdell, Ballinger and DJ. How much better depends on Williamson.

Whichever way I look at it I can't help but see more of the same.

Our Australian contingent the last three or so years has left us in an identical position each season. If we get two superstar imports we will be competitive. Get two duds or players who struggle to adapt in our system then we will compete for the wooden spoon.

Looking to next season, we are in the same boat. All depends on how good the two imports are. Lets hope they are superstars.

Reply #325580 | Report this post

Balllinger Fan  
Years ago

Skip, last spot is definitely a back up centre. This squad is still very light in the bigs dept, and if DJ gets into foul trouble we are toast.

Also not convinced that Ballinger will always be starting. The emphasis in this squad seems to be speed so i would not be surprised to see Creek play some back court minutes also, particularly as JWill looks to be able to support the ball carriers.

Reply #325584 | Report this post

Years ago

Yea if Clarke doesnt want Williamson to start the SF spot along side Ballinger and Johnson, i wouldnt mind him starting PF, Johnson at C and Ballinger playing off the bench similar to Dusty in Cairns last year.

I would then start Creek at SF, Weigh at SG, id like to see how close to the young Mackinnon claims Creek can get and playing him is the only way to find out, and id say he would be atleast as good as Herbert anyway. (No disrespect to Herbert, but Creek has some serious talent for a young guy and has the potential to be a real star, so lets give him a shot, same reason im starting Johnson over Ballinger.)

Slot sat Vasiljevic in as the 10th man

You could go with rotations like

C Johnson (25mins)/Ballinger (mins 8)/Vasiljevic (7)
PF Williamson (20)/Ballinger (20)
SF Creek (25)/Waigh (10)/ Williamson (5)
SG Weigh (15)/Herbert (20)/Ng (5)
PG Warren (25)/Crosswell (15)

Total mins would be

Ballinger 28 (still getting the most mins off the bench)
Johnson 25
Williamson 25
Creek 25
Weigh 25
Warren 25
Herbert 20
Crosswell 15
Vasiljevic 7
Ng 5

Would give us a long athletic starting 5 with Weigh and Creek on the wings and Johnson and Williamson would be quicker than most bigs.

And also a well balanced team with the main 8 guys getting more than 20 mins, i beleive a 40 min game is probably best suited to a 8 man rotation, so have 7 guys playing more than 20, with Crosswell the 8th at 15. Ng and Pero would just be played in small birsts, with a very defined role, Ng shooting 3s for quick points, Vasiljevic hustling inside and rebounding to balance out Ballinger, my rotations are based upon Clarke doesnt seem to want Johnson and Ballinger on together for long stints.

Eg. Johnson/Williamson combo for 20 mins, Pero/Ballinger for 7 mins, Ballinger/Johnson for 13 mins (ie around 3 mins a quater tops), so allowing us to have Johnson and Ballinger on for around 60% of the game each, whilst only playing together for around 30%, good balance IMO.

so Pero will spell Johnson when Ballinger is at PF and allow Ballinger to play his mid range game which suits him best.

Reply #325585 | Report this post

Years ago

From Rhys Carter's Twitter

@DarrenNg8 @Adelaide36ers great signing in Williamson. Amazing athlete, strong and can finish. Knocked me out of swedish playoffs 2 yrs ago

Reply #325587 | Report this post

Years ago

Which isn't saying much given the standard of the Swedish competition. It's not much better than ABL standard.

Reply #325588 | Report this post

Balllinger Fan  
Years ago

if you bang in "John Jwill Williamson France" into youtube,
is that JWill with Willie Farley at the start?

Reply #325589 | Report this post

Years ago

Hendo, not sure I like that five man combo you posted. Too many guys that are ideally mid-range and in shooters and not enough quality perimeter shooting.

Weigh is also not all that quick, so I wouldn't want him defending starting shooting guards all the time. He is much better suited to playing SF and even PF, rather than SG IMO.

Unless Williamson turns out to be a superstar, I'd generally prefer to see him as our game changer off the bench and have Herbert's defence and 3pt shooting in the starting lineup to balance the inside/ mid-range games of DJ, Balls and Weigh.

Jonno, I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself to be claiming Creek is better than Herbert at this point. The kid has a lot of potential, but based on last season he has a lot of work to do on his outside shot and ball-handling before I'd consider playing him as a guard. I think solid backup minutes behind Weigh (and perhaps some PF mins if we go with a small ball lineup) is about right for Creek at this stage.

Reply #325593 | Report this post

Years ago

Maybe a bit ahead of myself, with Creek, but i would just love to see Clarke take the shackles off him and Johnson and let them play around 25 mins per game,

i reckon it would be exciting to watch, they would develop over the years in to 2 of the better Aussies around the league,i also reckon they are good enough right now, not to dominate but to be decent starters,

if we are not going to be real contenders at least play the young kids and watch them develop, so that we may be in a couple of years, a bit like AFL clubs do, which also generally brings more excitement to the fans in the losing seasons. Collingwood fans a few years back watching guys like Pendulbury and Thomas, when they were losing were like just wait until these guys develop and we will be good, and look at them now, so i want the 36ers to do similar put game time into Weigh, Creek, Johnson,

if Weigh is too slow for opposition SG's defensively, Creek could play defense on the SG, while Weigh plays more SG on the offense, i think the Weigh/Creek starting wing combo could be quite good, and hard to match up on defensively for oppositions as both are long and athletic, and takes the pressure off Herbert coming back from knee surgery, but still giving him half the game to use his talents, which ill be excited to see him back.

Anyways if both the imports are half decent we should be much improved on last season, having Creek and Herbert for full seasons is also an improvement, and Weigh was one of the better Aussie free agents available (he was my 3rd best option behind Gibson and Schenscher) so was happy to see him signed and he should be an upgrade on last seasons SF's.

Reply #325596 | Report this post

Years ago

Starting 5:


Reply #325619 | Report this post

Years ago

My guess is Warren, Herbert, Weigh, Williamson, Ballinger, if Williamson is any good.

Reply #325622 | Report this post

Years ago

I think Clarke said in Thursday's paper they're now looking for a back up centre which means DJ will be starting and Williamson would be coming off the bench.

Reply #325625 | Report this post

Years ago

I don't want balls starting c. He picks up to many early fouls guarding the bigger guys. No good having our best player on the pine with 2-3 fouls in the 1st q. Just play dj and see how it goes.

Reply #325627 | Report this post

Ballinger Fan  
Years ago


DJ, J-Will, Weigh, Herbert, Warren.

Adam to lead the team in minutes, points, boards coming off the bench, after the young starting frontcourt softens up the opposition.

Reply #325647 | Report this post

Big Mart  
Years ago

I'm surprised that so many people are wanting Balls to come off the bench as a 6th man.

Personally their best option is having Herbert as the 6th man and fielding Williamson at the 3 with Weigh as a 2-guard.

While there's so much talk about him as an impact player; I'd prefer having Balls start as he adds a distraction on offence. If you have a guy who you know can score from nearly everywhere; it opens more spaces for your other players.

Reply #325652 | Report this post

Years ago

I dont think you really want Balls starting at C as you are taking him away from his natural game. I love seeing him pop out for an open mid range shot or 3 every now and then, when he is playing C he doesnt do that as effectively.

I'd be starting Johnson and Balls and being active in subbing one off should they not be working.

Have Williamson come off the bench and provide some energy.

Reply #325654 | Report this post

Years ago

Marty, I don't think Weigh will play SG. Would probably be SF/PF rather than SF/SG before even suggesting SG? I always assumed he was a SG/SF type too but then spoke to someone who insisted he was too slow for SG and saw a bit of time at PF as a result. (Cats also played Trueman and Wagstaff as centres sometimes didn't they?)

Would be interested to hear what any Wildcats fans think re Weigh and positions he can play.

Reply #325665 | Report this post

Years ago

Big Mart, I would go with your line up as well to start the season. No way would I have Ballinger come of the bench.

Ballinger will be revitalized this season by having two centers as well as another talented big man that can actually score (Sorry Holmes). Having athletic Creek and Weigh helps also. Ballinger will have the advantage of more help which result in less fouls and means he will have more energy in the 4th.

Defensively we will be much better as Marty will actually (hopefully) play Johnson more then 3-5 minutes per quarter and have a back up for him. So we will actually have an inside presence. I know everyone loves Holmes but you don't get a defensive presence being 6'6. Having two close to 7 footer centers combining to play most of the game will make a massive difference compared to last year.

Reply #325671 | Report this post

Years ago

I like the idea of Weigh moving to the 2 spot.

If we are going for another big man what are people thoughts on these guys who are yet to get a gig?

Ben Knight
Pero Vasiljevic
Neil Mottram
Sam Harris
Nick Horvath
Wade Helliwell
Rick Rickett (NZ citizen yet?)

Reply #325672 | Report this post

Years ago

My preference if all asking the same sort of $$$ would be

1st Horvath
2nd Vanderjagt
3rd Vasiljevic
4th Mottram
5th Sam Harris

I want them to get a 6'10 + player so ruling out Ben Knight.

I went for Horvath first as he used to be a pretty good NBL import and is putting up as good if not better numbers to the others in the NZBL, which i think is better than SEABL, etc. So simply he is the most talentd IMO.

Reply #325677 | Report this post

Years ago

I would go for Mottram as I think the one thing missing is a pure physical specimen. Pero is another who fits that category.

As for who starts, I would go with Ballinger and Williamson in the frontcourt. If the 5 guards Ballinger put him outside to stretch the D and let Williamson over power his opponent inside, and if they put the 5 on Williamson send Ballinger to the post with his size advantage and use Williamson to either hit from mid-range or drive around his slower opponent.

I would then put Johnson in after a few minutes to try and outrun the oppo C, who has already been out there for a few minutes and could be caught out by Johnson's speed.

Reply #325679 | Report this post

Years ago

you don't get a defensive presence being 6'6
Vukona would like to have a word... Absolute gamechanger, crucial to the champs last season (especially in the finals) and playing PF and under 6'6" I'd say.

Individual defence and contribution to team defence matter - latter being more important than many think. Holmes didn't really let down in either regard, just didn't stretch anyone at the other end (unless on the boards a bit) but that doesn't mean he's ripe for criticism on his D.

I'd almost go with Ben Knight from that list. Looks like he's about to die on court sometimes, but his enthusiasm was clear last year with the Kings and I think strength inside (my brother was telling me, almost eyes boggling, about how strong Knight is in the paint), defense, veteran leadership would be perfect for us. Working against him is his age and that he's not going to be a popular signing initially.

Horvath wouldn't solve any problems. Pero might not be dissimilar to DJ in a few ways (athletic, can bust out). Hadn't considered him before but Knight would at least bring something different.

Reply #325681 | Report this post

Years ago

Out of all those guys named, besides height what would they offer that Holmes couldn't?
Jacob was one f the best rebounders in the league and defensively was still very good and is definitely a leader when he is on the court.
For me, sign Holmes again.

Reply #325683 | Report this post

Years ago

I'm with you Panther. I'd love to see Holmes get the spot, but it doesn't seem likely.

Reply #325685 | Report this post

The Brad  
Years ago

I don't know if you blokes have seen many South Adelaide games (and yes I know it's only SBL), but DJ's defence is WOEFUL! Yeah he may get a few blokes due to his athleticism but other than 3 or 4 stops a game opposition centres have their way with him and the help side defence is non existent!
And Ballinger did get a little better last season but he is still very average. We constantly got murdered in the paint last season and unless Williamson is th next Bill Russell we will struggle again this season.
Marty's theory is obviously let's see if we can score more than the opposition. We struggled without a 3 point shooter which we have definitely improved with Ng, Herbert and Warren coming in, but that is the only improvement.
I really do hope that Marty also comes up with a few more offences this season to and can get the ball swinging, because "horns" only worked for the first game of the season and then sucked the rest!

Reply #325687 | Report this post

Years ago

Jonno, can you make a quick list of guys in the league who are 6'10" and over? Or see if I've forgotten anyone. I don't think it's as common or crucial as you might think.

Breakers: Pledger
Taipans: Crosswhite (Loughton 6'9")
Crocs: Schenscher, Allen
Wildcats: no one (I don't think Knight actually is, though sometimes listed as 6'10")
Hawks: no one (Davidson listed 6'9")
Blaze: no one?
Tigers: Tragardh, Burston
36ers: Johnson
Kings: Khazzouh

I'd rather pick a player for their style of play and what they bring rather than "you must be this tall to ride."

Take my previous preference for Knight knowing that some perverse side of me just wants to see him play for yet another club before he retires...

Reply #325689 | Report this post

Years ago

panther, holmes hasnt been part of a struggling team for the past many seasons. i think coach is suspicious.

Reply #325691 | Report this post

Years ago

has. has!

Reply #325692 | Report this post

Years ago

It's a good point Isaac (although Davidson is listed at 208cm and Gold Coast are apparently signing a centre).

The balance most successful NBL teams seem to have is one genuine centre, one forward/centre and then mobile forwards after that. At most, a team will then have a 9th or 10th man who is a big man as insurance, but few run two genuine centres in their rotation.

The NBL is a quick, mobile league that requires guys with multiple skills. I think Adelaide are (finally) on the right track this season with team balance.

Reply #325694 | Report this post

Years ago

Yeah, you get my point.

An arbitrary thing like height would rule out someone like Ira Clark (were we looking for an import) - bit silly. Instead say we need someone who can rebound, or defend particular centres or whatever.

Reply #325702 | Report this post

Years ago

Exactly. A good team plays to their strengths and negates the other team's, regardless of their height etc.

Team balance is one important factor, but playing to your strengths is more important. A great example is that a tall line-up can be successful in the NBL, but not if you are like the Tigers and recruit four talls who cant shoot and then run an offence designed for undersized players and shooters!

Reply #325708 | Report this post

Big Sexy  
Years ago

Pero would be my first choice as we need another Adelaide boy, then Knight because he plays hard and can hit the mid range jumper all night

Reply #325712 | Report this post

Years ago

I wouldnt get Knight regardless of height next season, as i think he is a PF not really a C, sure he could play there like Ballinger and others do, but i would like to see us sign a legit back up C like a Horvath, Pero, Mottram.

Knights age and recent injury history are also a concern to me, not that the others i have mentioned are overly young, he did finish strongly for the kings last season from memory but i would take the others over him as they are more C's not PF's,

i also wouldnt rule out someone just for height, would definatly sign a aussie version of Rolan Roberts if around at 6'6, but just want a C or atleast a C/PF like Mottram, more than a PF/C.

I think Horvath is the most talented of the guys mentioned hence why i chose him, Vanderjagt is next best for me, but if we want more the inside bruising/defensive presence id go gor Pero or Mottram over a Ben Knight. Either way its only the 9th-10th spot so not a huge issue who they sign, i half expect it to be either Pero or Mottram as both have links with SA and have trained with the 36ers under Clarke.

Reply #325719 | Report this post

Camel 31  
Years ago

I know someone who can rebound,defend Schenscher
play 4 n 5 , shoots pretty good and has the name of the most important south australian.

Anyways , like Adelaide Lightning who needed a big for the last spot, but didn't take Carla Borrego and I've forgotten who they signed , instead.

Reply #325733 | Report this post

Years ago

I would pick helliwell. Only if he got a haircut though. really good team player. rebounds and sets good picks.

Reply #325739 | Report this post

Years ago

The way some people say Balls shouldn't play makes it sound as though he is 6"5!!

He is 6"9 (and also he has an extremely strong body).

Wilkinson played Center a lot last year (because of Pledger's limited minutes) and more than held his own. Wilkinson is listed as 6"8.

And then look at all the guys that played Center in the league last year and their height:
Knight = 6"10

And then guys like Crosswhite and Burston are 6"11.

So majority of the time he is either the same size as some Centers in the league or just 1 inch shorter. Then he is just 2 inches shorter than some of the taller ones.

I think Ballinger needs to toughen up on defence; Mika Vukona can make up for his lack of height through defence and hard work (maybe Ballinger needs to take a leaf from his book).
But in all honesty, If a guy cannot COMPETE with guys that are the same height as him or 1-2inches taller, than he has some defensive issues (in terms of technique and work ethic).
I think he needs to better utilise that strong frame of his..He tends to use his body well on Offence, but not on defence.

Reply #325749 | Report this post

Ballinger Fan  
Years ago

Balls defense is ok, and he can play centre, BUT he is not a starting centre. Teams have targeted him from the get go, and if got into foul trouble in the first quarter the 36ers were done and dusted, because our front court points dried up. That is why they got J-Will.

Balls is versatile enough to play C or PF (or 4 or 5) or in Marty's system, high or low post. That is why I think he should come off the bench, he can plug either position 5 or 10 minutes into the game quite adequately.

Also i dont think Marty will be comfortable having 3 leftys on the bench. Interestingly the team has 4 leftys, (pretty sure Crosswell is a lefty also)

Reply #325767 | Report this post

Years ago

Ballinger Fan, give this 'Balliger should come off the bench' crap a rest. The guy in a perennial top 5 league MVP vote getter.

He is clearly our best player and not a single in the NBL coach would bring him off the bench, please give it a rest you are sounding rather silly with this garbage.

All Ballinger needs is some good players around him, like any good team needs to be able to challenge for a title.

Ballinger Fan, you have Herbert in your starting five, three seasons ago he was the 8/9 player on the dragons roster that won a title. What has he done since then to even be considered in our best 7? Ok he played some good defence two years ago when the 36ers were a bloody disgrace!!!

Reply #325775 | Report this post

Years ago

I agree the calls from a small wacky element of the Sixers fan base for Ballinger to come off the bench are laughable. He's in the top 3 or 4 players in the league as his league MVP voting routinely shows.

If DJ starts as Clarke has implied then Williamson will be coming off the bench.

Reply #325783 | Report this post

Years ago

It's not who starts, it's who finishes as they say. I would definitely start Ballinger but does it really make a difference if he comes in after 3 or 4 minutes?

Reply #325788 | Report this post

Years ago

Why would you bring a superstar and one of the top 3 players in the league (with Penney now gone) off the bench?

Especially on a team that looks like it will be more of a wooden spoon cotender than playoff contender this season?

And yes it certainly does make a difference if you've got any designs on actually trying to keep the guy beyond this season. He's the only thing the team has going for it.

Reply #325793 | Report this post

Years ago

Yes Paul it makes a huge difference to the mentality of a player.

Reply #325794 | Report this post

Years ago

Perhaps Lakers should start Kobe on the bench? As mentioned Ballinger is one of the top 5 players in the league this is why you don't start him on the bench!

Reply #325796 | Report this post

Years ago

I like Ballinger but I wouldnt have him in the top 10 players in the league. I would definitely start him though, and I would get him as many open shots as humanly possible.

Reply #325799 | Report this post

Years ago

Well the coach's routinely have him in the top 4 or 5 when it comes to MVP voting every year. Saying you wouldn't have him in your top 10 is a little extreme, paul.

Reply #325802 | Report this post

Years ago

wow big call paul.

Reply #325803 | Report this post

I have always liked Ballinger and wished he would have stayed at the Hawks but last year I would put the following players ahead of Ballinger.
Martin D


Reply #325804 | Report this post

Years ago

Okay I change from top 5 in the league to top 5 power forwards in the league hence why he should start

Reply #325805 | Report this post

I agree. Of course he should start. I was just trying to see where I was with the suggestion that he was not in the top 10 in the league. If Wiliamson turns out to be a young Rosell Ellis with a jump shot, then thats a pretty good combination that can score on you in different ways depending on how you match up with them. The most important thing will be how good a defender Williamson is. If he can do a solid job on D as well you dont look to be in to bad a position with Johnson comming off the bench, another big to come and Weigh being able to pinch hit at the 4 if you want to go small.

Reply #325809 | Report this post

Years ago

Why wouldn't you start Herbert? Who will start instead at SG, play defense and spread the D? Check his numbers in the SEABL and shooting percentages especially.

Reply #325812 | Report this post

Years ago

Isaac, Im not saying not to start him, Im only stating he is not yet a proven starting SG in the NBL. And at the moment the 36ers simply do not have a first 5 SG on the roster.

Reply #325816 | Report this post

Years ago

That's true, A. Herbert or Ng isn't your starting SG if you're serious but out of those two I think it really has to be Herbert.

Reply #325829 | Report this post

Years ago

That's the problem with having pretty much no versatility in this lineup.
Pretty well every player only really can play the one position.
So we are almost locked into the starting lineup of Johnson, Ballinger, Weigh, Herbert and Warren.
Williamson probably should be starting 5, but due to team balance, we probably can't bump Weigh to the 2.

Reply #325830 | Report this post

Years ago

Herbert is good to go and will be a very solid SG for the coming season.

Thinking that Williamson is a cheap option import so may well come off the bench.

Reply #325832 | Report this post

Years ago

Re Ballinger, if he is consistently playing his best basketball he is top ten, no question. But we havent seen that for some time, and as someone mentioned earlier, that is largely because he hasnt had a lot of talent around him.

As for the MVP, Ballinger gets votes for exactly the same reason. Using NZ as an example, if Penney is hot they go to him, but if it was Bruton, Braswell, Abercrombie or Wilkinson having a big night they would get more shots and reduce Penney's impact, and hence votes on that night.

With Adelaide, usually if Ballinger wasnt scoring no one was, so he was very likely to pick up votes most nights. The NBL MVP isnt necessarily a great measure of the best players in the league.

Reply #325838 | Report this post

Years ago

I think both Ng and Herbert are NBL standard starters. Probably more so Herbert due to his defense. The rest of the league SG starters from last season from a guess are:

Dillion - Herbert is of similar skill, in fact I think Herbert is better
Harvey - Harvey a pure score but getting old now)
Corletto - Herbert is better then him.
Penney - No comparison needed
Lisch - A good scorer but Herbert would be a better defender
Madgen - I would still rather Herbert
Cedar - Better scorer but inconsistent and Herbert would be a better defender
Crawford - Is better but getting old
Campbell - Getting old and Herbert is better

Out of those 9
3 are easily better (Penney, Crawford, Harvey)
3 he is equal with (Dillion, Cedar, Lisch)
3 he is better then (Campbell, Corletto, Madgen)

This is just my opinion im sure others will say Madgen will be better. Either way it points out he is good enough to start

Reply #325839 | Report this post

Years ago

Regardless of starter if either come off the bench not many teams have a 2 guard off the bench that can go for 20 plus on any given night.

Herbert brings toughness and can switch on D between 1-3

Ng has an x factor that stretches defence which will hopefully allow J Will, C Dub , Weigh and Creek space to attack the rim.

Reply #325840 | Report this post

Years ago

with weigh and hopefully a better pg and herberts range balls will get his looks without getting double teamed because of poor wings and pg last year and you will see why he is regarded in the top 5 in the league. Brett maher said last yr while commentating he was in top 5 and i respect his call. Ng is NOT nbl standard starter. He should get his 5-10 mins a game max. Defence is a massive liability. Not strong enough.

Reply #325841 | Report this post

Years ago

Hendo, can't agree with that. Most guys in the team can play two positions.

A, no team starts power players at all five spots. Breakers started Henare last year, Boucher in times before that. Campbell is a bit of a specialist at the Hawks, etc. If Herbert starts, he only needs to be 5th or 6th best option in scoring behind Ballinger, Weigh, Warren, Williamson and Johnson. His numbers in the SEABL are very good for a guy coming back from injury. To be honest, Herbert as a starter is the guy I'd be least worried about with unknown imports, Weigh coming off a dodgy shooting season, not knowing who will start in the front court, etc.

Reply #325843 | Report this post

Years ago

Good call isaac.

Reply #325848 | Report this post

Years ago

Isaac, I do agree with you, but what I am trying to say is the Herbert and NG are not yet proven NBL starting players. They have never yet been consistent NBL payers/scorers, you do not know if you will get 5, 10, or 15 points from them on any given night.(this is after 4-5 years in the league?)

Don't get me wrong I love what both players bring to the table and I am more than happy that they are both on the 36ers roster. I would like Herbert to start and be a consistent player who can average 12-15 points a game and play great defence.

If you look at the last couple of NBL champions they all had SG's that were proven 'CONSISTENT' match winners and were feared by the opposition purely on the fact they were able to score at any given time.

Also, how many SEABL players have averaged 20-30 points a game and never had a look in the NBL.

Reply #325849 | Report this post

Years ago

I would settle for two imports averaging 12-15 right now

Reply #325851 | Report this post

Years ago

To add some perspective to your expectations

Ballinger and Wilkinson had 15 per game
Saville 9.9
Abercrombie 10
Campbell 7.7
Dorsey 13

to average between 12-15 means you are in the elite group of the NBL.

In this team that is not the role of those two players. If one of them does get that per game then something as wrong as they should be the 4th or 5th option in scoring.

Reply #325853 | Report this post

Camel 31  
Years ago

I noticed , last season , Ballinger , Holmes , Hill
and 2 American Guards started every game
with the same substitutions at the same time.
( a coupla injuries meant a slight change )
When you're losing more than you are winning,
you feel like making a change, mix it up
roll them over and find the best , on that night,
for the most minutes.
I guess ya cain't do that.

Anyways, Mark Bickley's pretty good.

At the moment, Herbert starts . He's hot at training.
Ballinger doesn't (injured) , but i guess they nurse him thru , this preseason.

Reply #325864 | Report this post

Years ago

A, so which position do you want to go light at? Centre? PF? Surely not PG? Can't really afford to load up across the board so someone has to play that role.

If Williamson started, that's three imports (inc an ex-import) out of five. Then a fringe Boomer. You're not going to fit a Barlow in there at SG. I'd say the dollars left for the 10th spot are pretty meagre.

Unless I've forgotten someone, Daniel Dillon was a grand final starting SG last season and barely even on the radar before that. Shifting to another position, PG is a critical spot but not many would've said that Henare was proven or consistent - almost every year but last he copped ridicule. I'd have Herbert in my starting five before Henare.

Like I've said, he is shooting well, works hard, won't disrupt the team, plays tough, etc - least of our worries at this point.

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