Free Adelaide
Years ago

Conflicts of interests

How can people be on a club committee when they have 1 or more children playing at another club??

Topic #34506 | Report this topic


what's cookin ?  
Years ago

read your club's constitution.

Reply #475352 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

GOVERNANCE101.....
THis is a definite conflict of interest. What are some of these clubs thinking?

Absolutely crazy if you think someone can invest the time and expertise required to build a successful program, let alone all of the privileged information they would be aware of, when their own kids are playing in another club. Problem is it's probably too much effort to replace this person so the club just keeps them there.

Reply #475355 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

How can the CEO of a league also be the CEO of the umpires association for the same league???Took 12 months for him and his respective boards to figure it out.....How can the president of a basketball association appoint himself with the boards consent as the CEO???

Reply #475358 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

STBA has 2 parents whose kids are at other clubs and the presidents kids no longer play however he has a contract through his company to supply uniforms!!

Now there is a major conflict

Reply #475359 | Report this post


Ashke  
Years ago

Happy Days is in his element, Governance talk gets him up and about!!!

Reply #475362 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Ashke long time no hear...

Reply #475378 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Happy days what's your advice to a clubs member where what has been alleged to be happening is happening ie parents on committee whose kids play at other clubs

Reply #475379 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Attend an AGM and vote for someone else.

Reply #475381 | Report this post


BOB911  
Years ago

Most basketball committees and boards are generally made up of people with a vested interest in the club and the game, and with the best of intentions. Sometimes internal decision are made where people on the peripheral don't understand or have all the information, and therefore pass judgement incorrectly or just gossip. Most association don't like outsiders coming in and tell them how run their shop, and normally when an association /club doesn't provide the pathway that's members needs the individuals move on.

Reply #475382 | Report this post


FUBR  
Years ago

Potentially there could be just as much a conflict of interest by having a child in the program as having a child in another club. For example, a board/committee member influencing coaches on where their child is placed. Rather than making decisions based on merit,

It's almost as difficult as resolving the problem of having parent coaches. For example should you allow the parent coach at representative level? Lots of people will say no, however, I believe Lindsay Gaze used to coach Andrew Gaze.

Reply #475384 | Report this post


Knox  
Years ago

CEO of Knox, was Chairperson of SEABL.
Chairperson of Knox Senior Raiders was also Chairperson of VJBL was also on the Basketball Victoria board.
Conflicts happen all the time it is just how they are managed.

Reply #475385 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Free Adelaide,

Excepting that there may be decisions made at a Committee meeting that create a conflict of interest, why would be a parent of a child at Club A prevent you from being on the committee of Club B?

Reply #475388 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

And HD, I am not sure your first example is actually an issue (given I do not understand the implications), but your second sounds like corruption!

Reply #475389 | Report this post


POP  
Years ago

Maybe start by looking at what 'conflict of interest' means? Usually relates to a situation in which the director/committee member or a family member gains - or could gain - a financial benefit because of a decision in which the director/committee member was involved in making at board/committee level.

So, there is no [legal] conflict of interest evident in the first example in which the director has kids playing at another club.

There is potential for C of I in the case of the director whose company has a contract to supply uniforms but we don't know the facts. As Knox points out, the real question is how each issue is handled. If the director in that case absented himself when the board made the decision re the uniform contract there's no issue, I'd suggest.



Reply #475392 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

For the mother of all COI look no further than Woodville

Reply #475395 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Basketball in Victoria is rife with conflicts of interest and nepotism everywhere. You either try to point it out and risk getting knifed or turn a blind eye to it and just accept its part of the tainted fabric of the sport..

Reply #475399 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Part of the problem is there is no layer of governance above these associations and most of them are made up of volunteers with little corporate experience and understanding of what governance is. As one president said to me, i'm a plumber and i haven't been on a committee before. He is now running a league with a turnover of $500k and doing ok for his first year in.

Reply #475401 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

While I agree there is no formal layer of governance there is BV who should do far more to make member associations comply to agreed policy and procedure.

Even the VBRA are largely a toothless tiger when it comes to enforcing their codes and standards on their branches.

One of the main reasons you don't see more experienced and qualified people take on committee and board positions at clubs and associations is because they can see the absolute infected mess created by the existing conflicts and nepotism.

Unless you can covertly secure the numbers to over throw then its not worth the effort and stress.

Reply #475404 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

There are 2 types of COI, perceived and actual, and sometimes the perceived conflict, like kids at other clubs can do more harm then the actual conflict

Reply #475406 | Report this post


Ashke  
Years ago

Happy Days "How can the president of a basketball association appoint himself with the boards consent as the CEO???" Good question, how does that happen?

Reply #475407 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Here's a few laws id like to see BV introduce AND Enforce.

Compulsory registration and regulation of Coaches and officials: treat them like players, Pick an association to register with and coach/manage for them, stop this crap of coaching juniors at one and seniors at another.
Make then seek clearances and transfers to change clubs/associations but you can't be registered with 2 at one time.

Produce a list of pre determined COI's and force every association to declare anyone who breaches any. Then determine if the COI is serious enough to force removal from that position.

Prohibit individuals from holding multiple officer positions.

Non compliance? Financial sanctions against the association followed by exclusion of results if they refuse to comply.

Reply #475408 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

A plumber is selling themselves short a bit there!

For one, a turnover of $500K is probably what a small-medium plumbing business would do. To be registered as a contractor with Consumer Affairs they need to have some formal business studies and to remain in business some business nouse in the form of seeking work, quoting, marketing etc and then they have to actually solder some bits of copper together, scratch their bum and say "it's not gunna be cheap luv.."

In terms of the OP's question, this has happened in the past, is happening now and will happen in the future. It might not be a conflict of interest as such, but it is not a good advertisement if the kids of the President of the club are playing at a different club. It implies that they do not have faith in the coaching staff at that club.

There may be a number of reason why their children are playing at a different club. They might be a former player at the club where they are on the committee and their children might be playing at the other club due to friendships/custody issues etc.

At the end of the day, they are a volunteer on a committee giving up their time and trying to make that club better. They should be congratulated for that.

Reply #475419 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What if they aren't making it better

Reply #475429 | Report this post


Freddy  
Years ago

LOL @ Southern...

Reply #475432 | Report this post


Libertine  
Years ago

This is sports.

Reply #475435 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

The gripe about a parent working with one club while their kids played at another reminds me of a Seinfeld re-run from earlier this week:

JERRY: Hey, so where's my sneakers?

KRAMER: That's what I wanna know.

JERRY: What do you mean?

KRAMER: Well, I saw Mom and Pop this morning, but when I went by the store on my way home? The place was empty. Everything is gone. Mom and Pop - vrooop - vanished.

JERRY: So all my sneakers are gone?

KRAMER: I'm afraid so. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I've been asking around - they didn't even have any kids.

JERRY: Mom and Pop aren't even a Mom and Pop?!

KRAMER: It was all an act, Jerry. They conned us, and they scored, big time.

ELAINE: So. Mom and Pop's plan was to move into the neighborhood...establish trust...for 48 years. And then, run off with Jerry's sneakers.

KRAMER: Apparently.

ELAINE: Alright, that's enough of this.

Reply #475436 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

#475408

Interesting post. BV don't even have compulsory registration of players, tough to get them to insist on it for coaches and officials!

You can't manage conflict of interest by a list. You might prohibit some things, like saying that an administrator cannot also be a Board member, but that is not necessarily managing conflict of interest.

Interest is not limited to financial gain either, its more often in the volunteer context about access to information, which makes Board confidentiality agreements pretty important.

Reply #475442 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

HO, if you play VJBL, BigV or SEABL you have to register to play with those Leagues, you cannot play for 2 VJBL clubs at the one time nor 2 BigV clubs.

The suggestion has merit, registered players at either junior or senior rep level can only play basketball for 1 rep association, make this a rule and apply it to coaches and administrators at Rep level (VJBL/BigV/SEABL) as well. Problem solved.

Reply #475443 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

In answer to the OP, I can only offer you what I have experienced.

I have been on the board of a basketball club, then my sons moved to another basketball club to grow and devlop at a higher level of competition.

I still help out at the old club, I caoch and help run the club's committee, never had one issue at all.

I have coached many basketball teams, even against my own sons on occasions, once again, never had an issue as I have always been up front and transperant about what I do.

There are rules of operation, constitutions and policy that govern any incorporated association and every basketball club should also have adopted such guidelines of their own.

If you follow the process, have and open and honest relationship with others on your committee, then just do what you can to help it is usually seen as exactly that, nothing more to those around you with equal amounts of common sense and decency.

Problems may arrise through petty jealousy or envo, however people's egos are probably the worst thing you will encounter, outside of someone being involved who is there for their own interests or just plain and simple a crook!

People offer their time and effort in basketball for free in most cases, the clubs and Associations cannot survive without these volunteers.

Anyone who is out there doing it to help the kids and has this as their motivation should be held in high regard by their organisations, I agree that often the issues are percieved and not real!

Final piece of advice, if you have Facebook, well either get rid of it or make sure you do not link to anyone under 18 years of age if you are an adult yourself, this may save you quite a lot of percieved trouble...

Reply #475444 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

...jealousy or envy...

^should read, sorry!

Reply #475445 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The open honest and transparent parts of your statement are usually what isn't happening

Reply #475451 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Yes ^anon, I know some people should not be involved in running clubs or linked to them, however answering the OP, the question is; 'How can people be on a club committee when they have 1 or more children playing at another club??'

Answer: Be up front, open, honest and transparent until you hand over the reigns to the next person. Understand you are only holding a position, one of trust and part of a team. It is not about you!

If the person in question does not possess the right attributes, well there potentially is your problem. Not saying find the perfect person, they don't exist, but find the right person and don't lose them, protect them and use your policies to help you do this...

Reply #475458 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Bear "Final piece of advice, if you have Facebook, well either get rid of it or make sure you do not link to anyone under 18 years of age if you are an adult yourself, this may save you quite a lot of percieved trouble..."

Best piece of advice on this forum for a while!

Facebook is a handy way of keeping in touch with a group of underage players, but if you are a coach and want to use it, you would be well advised to set up a profile as "Coach A" and use this to communicate instead of your personal profile so it is a specific profile for a specific purpose. Keep it specifically basketball related. The Coaches own personal profile should not used.

Liking pictures of underage players vomiting at parties, and commenting on teenage girls selfies when they are in bikinis saying "UR gawjus hun!" must be avoided at all costs. I have seen some coaches behaviour on FB border on behaviour Rolf Harris would be proud of.

Reply #475459 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

^^^

Correct.

Seen some disgusting behavior from people who hold Board and Chairman positions on FB, if clubs did more due diligence these people would never make it past the front door.

Reply #475462 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

BV doesn't have the time, money, or resources to support local associations which means that they are left to there own devices. AFL has independant commissions in place which govern football within there respective regions. All clubs and leagues within those regions report to the commission. The commission has full time staff inplace to help leagues and clubs continue to grow and plan for the future.If there is an issue it can be resolved quickly. AFL has a coaches association which means all coaches must be accredited. The money from those courses is then reinvested back into providing further training and development rather than state association funds which i believe happens with BV.

Reply #475466 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

^ Id suggest this lack of guidance, governance and accountability from controlling bodies would go some way to explaining why Basketball falls away so rapidly at the top end.

People get so disenchanted by the time they hit an elite level they leave the sport.

You never hear people talking about Football the same way.

Reply #475469 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Gotta love Seinfeld!

Reply #475474 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

COI, See it all the time.

Club boards appoint fellow board members to coach a team and then that same coach continues to act at board level making decisions on what goes on with the team, such as player recruitment, money spent among many other things whilst receiving some form of remuneration as well.

Boards looking after mates and disregarding the overall development of the entire club or association is what is killing grass roots basketball as they are too focused on the top level teams.

Reply #475477 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

I think the key word is independance.Hard to make balanced decisions when you have a vested interest and most boards are filled with people that fit into that category. Need to make decisions in the best interests of the game, league or club .Most independant commissions have set criteria which means you have had no involvement at league or club level for a minimum of 2 years.

Reply #475483 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

HD, you are spot on. It's time BV started to audit and demand those perimeters for at the very least board positions and President/V President of Committee.

If you have a kid in the club simple, jnr or snr you CANNOT hold a position on the board and can only at best hold a general committee member position, nothing above.

If every Jnr/Snr Rep program operated under those circumstances it frightening to think how good Basketball could be.

Of cause an audit now as it stands would see about a 60% COI situation....

Reply #475493 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Basketball continually looses its greatest independent resource, and the sport is completely oblivious to it: retired players/coaches and in the case of the Refs retired officials.

There needs to be a far greater focus on retaining retired players, coaches and officials and channeling them onto Committee's and Boards for the sake of independence and neutrality.

As it stands boards and committee's are full of Parents, kingmakers and empire builders full of self interest and nepotism.

They're impossible to dislodge and make it impossible for people leaving the sport at a competitive level to remain involved in a worthwhile capacity.

Push them out.

Get ex players, coaches and Refs involved in their respective Clubs and associations and keep the management pure.

Reply #475495 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

^Anon, that is a great theory and in practise will make sense to a point. Always the preference for an organisation to find independant people to run them, especially when it comes down to something like sporting organisations so we can avoid issues like nepatism and so on...

The problem, my friend, is that if you look at most organisations in the real world, their players and officials, who would make great club leaders often have kids playing for the organisation as well!

Unless you have big $$$ to bring in a qualified pro, you just need to be more selective when it comes time to vote these people in, perhaps.

Reply #475496 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bear, i can think of countless numbers of ex players who at between 28 and 35 with quality education and business skills who DO NOT have kids or if they do they're at least 8 years off playing U12's.

There are Retired officials and Coaches who have kids past the age of playing juniors and snrs and a life time of experience and maturity.

There is a massive hole in the net.

Reply #475498 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Clubs need to approach and head hunt people. Do a skills survey of the club and you may find some unknown resources that you can tap into....

Reply #475501 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon You are spot on.


Clubs do nothing to analyze the skill base they have.
How many times do you chat to people within a club only to discover they're accountants, CEO's, GM's Business Managers, HR Directors etc, this resource goes untabled.

Yet some boards and committees are full of the completely wrong skill set.

When an Association in Vic can finally get someone in charge of a board or committee who is completely neutral and there for the right reasons and prepared to sweep the place of parents camped and bunkered in for "johnny' or Jills sake" and entice fresh neutral blood with the right background into these roles you will see that association fly within 3 years.

Reply #475506 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

The hard thing is getting the right people to fill the spots. Ideally you want somebody who is independant with a corporate/sporting background. Doesnt have to be a basketball person as there is so much knowledge that can be gleaned from other sports. We headhunt and do extensive screening prior to even meeting the person. The process isn't perfect but you are a better chance of getting the right person.

Reply #475508 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

HD, it might be hard to get the right people to fill the spots but when you get Presidents and Board/Committee members head hunting individuals onto boards and committee's who support their agenda's it's impossible to give the right people a look in anyway.
There is a perpetual case of infection that never gets cured.

Some Boards and committee's become so inbreed that to kill the infection requires an entire sweep of all positions, not just 1 or 2.

Reply #475515 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I know a club where people on the comittee head hunted a person, that person was about to take her kid elsewhere, hasn't done a single thing since being put on the comittee! Presidents words at the AGM were if you want to be on the comittee you need to do the job given, not push your own agenda, that will come back to haunt him very soon

Reply #475518 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Anon, you make a valid point. You do get members playing the numbers game which is not in the best interests of the organisation.

Reply #475519 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Agree, that the right people are likely to be out there. Also agree that organisations often lack, for whatever reason, the will or the drive to search for them.

The right person, however may also just not want to do the job!

Remember that being on a board or committee isn't everyone's cup of tea, there needs to be an incentive for them to put their time and effort into this role.

Why do these parents, or past players, officials etc... feel they want to help out their clubs or Associations, what is the attraction for them?

We sometimes look at these matter with one eye closed and don't see it from both angles too...

Reply #475520 | Report this post


FUBR  
Years ago

Most people seem to forget that most of these clubs were set up from youth clubs or church groups that have grown over multiple years and some have become semiprofessional basketball clubs/associations.

Just about every single association is run by a volunteer board who in most cases are parents or past players. Of course there are vested interests people are investing their time and effort. It takes hundreds of thousands of hours of volunteer time to run most associations. Everything from team managers, coaches, age group coordinators, all the way through to secretaries, treasurers and presidents.

The most positive comment I've heard from a club president, when asked why they put their hand up to volunteer was. "... There is a former president and several life members who I see watch their grandchildren play at this club. One day I would like to see my grandchildren play at this club, so I hope I can contribute to the long-term sustainability of the club... and if my kids have children, get to see my grandchildren play here". At the time I think this Presidents child was playing bottom age under 14's.

I'm not sure how this would pan out as a conflict of interest or even vested interest. But at least he had the heart to put his hand up to volunteer and help, and in my opinion for all the right reasons.

Certainly isn't selling uniforms to players.

Reply #475523 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ive seen a Dad tear a club apart to get himself into a position of power to get his Daughter onto the snr team.

Reply #475529 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Sorry to hear that ^anon, but the question you may ask yourself is 'what could I, or anyone else have done about that at the time?'

Reply #475530 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

and how did that turn out for dad and daughter?

Reply #475543 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Well they got their way, only problem is the Dad cant make here a decent Basketballer so shes clearly way over her head and its quite the joke around the league.

Reply #475548 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

what league

Reply #475552 | Report this post


I'm guessing SA District

Reply #475575 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

i am guessing she isnt playing at the club dads at anymore

Reply #475645 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Op, if you take your question away from basketball and put it in a different context, it would be:

How can people be on a school board when they have 1 or more children attending another school??

Or:

How can people be a teacher at one school when they have 1 or more children attending another school??

Or:

How can people be on a company board when they have 1 or more children working for another company??

It happens all the time and isn't an issue outside of basketball. Apart from ensuring the rest of the board is aware of the situation, why is it a problem?

Reply #475663 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

On a school board there are clear seperations of respinsbilities between the head, and their staff, and board members. Basketball clubs are resource poor and because of this individuals that want to manipulate outcomes for their own kids will get involved. They are able to influence key operational decisions despite often not having the skills or experience to do so.

Successful clubs have clear lines of responsibility for committee members and soon remove those there for the wrong reasons.

Reply #475667 | Report this post


AlmostBillyFikes  
Years ago

Also in my experience where leadership in the operations area of a club based organisation is poor you will find poorly skilled people just assuming roles of responsibility for their own benefit but to the deteriment of others.

This parasitic behaviour only eridicates anything positive the organisation over time.

I've seen this time and time again. Clubs improve and go backwards because the consistently employ poor operations people or seek out through clever role structuring weak people they can effectively control and manipulate.

Reply #475671 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What about the club treasurer who's wife runs the association & for a long time handled the banking, door entries, accounts payable/receivable, reconciliation, etc & may still do? Now that's a conflict of interest not to mention poor governance! Especially in a business that gets a lot of cash revenues.

Reply #475832 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I heard the committee of the day sacked the association's GM mid season leaving parents to coach his teams, who was the association's founder, who had been a past president for like 10 years, who was a life member of the association, who had received a distinguished service award from BV. Then they changed the constitution so it became very difficult, almost impossible, to call for an extraordinary general meeting. Thereby ensconcing their control of the association. A number of those committee members at the time only got on the committee with the express desire to remove this guy because he either didn't pick their child in the right team (read 1st team) or they felt aggrieved that he didn't spend enough time or energy coaching their child's team. Oh and they also kicked out a whole domestic club from their association. A domestic club that this guy coached at. For most on that committee it was about furthering opportunities for their kids, for other's on the committee that didn't have kids, they were persuaded by older people on the merits of sacking him. In my time in sport I've seen plenty of this sort of stuff done by parents but this one takes the cake.

Reply #475838 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Ceres 62

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
Westside Basketball Association
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms
PickStar - The best place to book sports stars

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



Invoicing clients? Stay productive with Punch, the insightful time tracker that earns you more.

Special offer: $30/month Pay $100 for lifetime access. Sign up now!

.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 12:08 pm, Tue 23 Jul 2019 | Posts: 776,725 | Last 7 days: 908