Dazz
Years ago

NBL needs to act on flopping

So what happened? I thought the NBL was going to stamp this out?
It's sad, Goulding was probably the best player on the court against Perth, and spoilt it with his award-winning flops.
Then on Saturday night, Oglivy spent more time on his back flopping than on his feet. It was laughable.
(To be fair though, I think in one of those cases he was moving forward and slipped, but the ref still called the foul.)
Then obviously Redhage decided he'd have some too and just randomly threw himself to the floor. It was cringeworthy.
I think that the refs need to start looking at the replays, maybe introduce a "4th ref" system like other sports. It's so frustrating as a fan, when the replay is shown on the big screen and the flopping is so blatantly obvious.

I gotta say, I thought the MU v Cats was a great game, even though we lost.
Despite the massive win, Saturday night's game was marred by poor reffing. It just goes to show that its not ALL about the result.

(Mod: Updated title. "act on flopping" - I'm so funny!)

Topic #38360 | Report this topic


I'm not mad at the players for flopping. The issues I have with it is that refs reward it for the most part (then give warnings later in the game) and the constant whinging about it from the fans who only notice it/care about it when someone from Perth does it.

Reply #560632 | Report this post


KingJames  
Years ago

Matt Burston flopped trying to get a charge call on Randle (because apparently a 5'9 player can send a 6'11 guy flying) but didn't get a warning for it. However there was some justice when later on Burston took a charge on Ere but due to Burston's flop play earlier the umpire Mayberry gave Ere the benefit of the doubt (or perhaps Mayberry just made another bad call which shouldn't surprise anyone).

Reply #560635 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

Ogilvy flopping on Redhage then Redhage immediately returning the favour was brilliant.

Relevant: http://www.fiba.com/news/alby-and-the-cultural-change

Reply #560636 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

Agree with you on this Dazz. Its not even the same old offenders anymore either, its becoming like soccer. Burston looked like such a fool going down like that against such a small guard. Thought there mustve been a sniper at the stadium shots fired scenario! Not sure much can be done though, its all on the refs and if they dont want to change the style then we as fans have to deal with it.

Reply #560638 | Report this post


Jumpshot  
Years ago

Bring on the video ref.

Reply #560683 | Report this post


Wwizard  
Years ago

Yeah I was amused when Burston received no flop warning given the league in the last few years were keen to stamp it out. Seems its gone backwards again by bad reffing and failure to curtail poor sportsmanship.

Reply #560685 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I'm amused how Redhage cops all the flak he does, when Matt Knight is bigger an stronger and spends an equal amount of time on the floor, often when bumped by players half his size.

Reply #560711 | Report this post


I'm amused how Redhage cops all the flak he does but those that constantly whinge about it never say anything when guys from their own team do it.

Reply #560712 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Bring in post-game reviews and fines to discourage it.

Reply #560718 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Agree Isaac. The refs aren't capable of policing it, they should focus on just calling the charge/block consistently, so leave it til the cold light of day to enforce it via review.

Reply #560725 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Cause and effect!

Officials rarely call a charge unless a player falls to the ground, so what is the player to do if he wants the charge actually called?

I am not saying flopping does not go on, yes it does and yes it is problematic in how many times it occurs, what I am saying is that if a player did not fall to the ground we would likely see zero charge calls...

Reply #560729 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Agree Bear. Get the charge/block call in line with the other top leagues (ie: call doubt in favour of the offence) and players lose the incentive to jump in front of an offensive player and let the contact send them to the floor.

The 2013/14 season showed players and coaches will adapt to changes, you just have to be consistent with how you call the game, and the NBL has rarely been able to create that predictability you see in the NBA and good European leagues.


Reply #560731 | Report this post


"what I am saying is that if a player did not fall to the ground we would likely see zero charge calls..."

Maybe thats a good thing? If you beat your man to the baseline and stop his dribble penetration, you've just played some good D. It doesn't need to be rewarded with a turnover just because he makes some contact to your chest. Save the charge call for when an out of control player just barrels through someone.

Reply #560738 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I agree so much I'm prepared to call you SC for that one!

Reply #560739 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

Redhage has been one of the main instigators throughout the years and has really pissed some fans off. BUT it feels like there is more of it happening from news sources this season.

Reply #560745 | Report this post


What do you mean "from news sources"?

Reply #560746 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

A lot of Fairfax flopping

Reply #560750 | Report this post


Train  
Years ago

Video refs during the game would slow the game down even more.

Put them on report during the game with post game reviews and fines. Suspensions for repeat offenders.

Reply #560769 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Video after the game, like the NBA does.

Reply #560771 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

As said above: too hard to call in game. The refs in the NBA weren't able to do it, how are our semi-pro refs going to be able to.

NBA stamped it out really well with post game escalating fines, a system which I thought at the time was silly, but has proven to be very effective. The fine announcement then also has an added "name and shaming" element that further discourages it.

Reply #560772 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

And the NBL needs to act on more than just flopping with its officiating.

Basketball is probably the single game in the world most affected by officiating, because there are so many ways you can violate the rules and so many grey-area judgment calls, so you need to get that perfect.

A badly officiated game is very difficult for me to watch; for someone new to the game trying to understand the rules and flow of a ball game, an NBL match is nigh on impossible to comprehend.

Reply #560773 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

@Mick, do you watch much AFL brother...?

Reply #560774 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

They're already reviewing video post-game anyway. Just need to highlight potential flops and scrutinise them further. Then make sure there's a penalty that discourages highly-paid players as much as benchies - whether there's a third-strike suspension or whatever.

It'd be too much messing with the game, but I wondered about the idea of a penalty being that you start a future game already on one foul. That might discourage poor behaviour!

Reply #560776 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Yeah I do bear.

I think there are way too many grey area rules creeping into AFL and I think you're going to see a dramatic rise in flopping and diving in the coming seasons as a result of it.

You're now even seeing it in Rugby League with guys flopping while they try to play the ball as if the tackler is giving them an extra bit of contact post-tackle.

@Isaac: what if the penalty was a percentage of player salary?

Reply #560778 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

I would try the 'Name & Shame' first, perhaps a FLOP OF THE WEEK award on the Blitz program and some media on it to highlight those really bad ones.

Players and officials are sure to take notice, maybe it will improve from there, if not then look to impose some kind of penalty...

Reply #560781 | Report this post


flatshot  
Years ago

If it wasn't for the wet floor I would prefer no call and the game to go on whilst flopper is down and out of play. Having said that the issue is about referree emphasis/decisions and it is often a hard call. In a non contact sport there is plenty of contact and how much moves another player is a fine judgement. The issue of not getting the call unless significant impact is seen is a problem which encourages the defender to make contact more evident. The issue of the 4th ref or access to replay is probably too time consuming to introduce to a game where pace and flow is critical but neither do you want outcomes determined by wrong calls that might have been correctable by review. A last 3 minutes capacity to go to video review to confirm a call especially in close games maybe worthwhile or the capacity for a coach to request a video review of 1 call a 1/4 with fans hanging on and watching the replay on the big screen could be worth considering.
As frustrating to me is the rookie call versus the player with a reputation getting away with murder. Martin, Goulding etc get away with clear fouls whilst a rookie gets called for thinking about reaching in. And how Jawai got away with holding Davidson by the shorts to the extent of de-pantsing him with 3 referees covering a relatively small court is confusing. Obviously de-pantsing is not a point of emphasis.
In all the debate you need to acknowledge the one with the whistle has a hell of a job and makes split second decisions from one angle.

Reply #560787 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"The issue of the 4th ref or access to replay is probably too time consuming to introduce to a game where pace and flow is critical"

That's why you review it after the game.

Reply #560789 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

And how Jawai got away with holding Davidson by the shorts to the extent of de-pantsing him with 3 referees covering a relatively small court is confusing.
Best part of that play was the guy in the crowd yelling at Davidson for flopping.

Reply #560809 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Good candidate for a reprimand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CspCYZc9jbA

Reply #560811 | Report this post


For the flop or for punching Young? Or both?

Reply #560812 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

I meant for the flop.

But the nut slap was uncalled for, too....

Reply #560814 | Report this post


Uncalled for? Thats downright dirty, should have been reprimanded/fined by the league.

Reply #560816 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

Spelling mistake, meant new sources. as in new players have started flopping as much as the usual suspects.

Reply #560826 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

I don't agree that a player needs to fall over to get the call (although that is apparently what is happening) Refs need to SEE and judge the CONTACT and at the very least ignore the flop.

But I like the idea that the coaches be allowed one video appeal per quarter (or half) and if the decision is in their favour they keep another appeal to be used again, but if it goes against them, that's it. It would stop Gleeson constantly yelling and pointing at the replay.

But yes, video review after game to identify and penalise floppers.

Reply #560839 | Report this post


Todd  
Years ago

If umpires called charges without someone needing to flop, then it would stop 90% of the flopping.

Reply #560843 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

Serious question: when does contact resulting in a player falling actually become a flop? If the player falls down when they could have stepped back and retained their balance is that a flop or is it whether they additionally accelerate the fall or exaggerate it by excessive arm flailing? Do the rules give guidance on that?

Reply #560849 | Report this post


Thunder Jam  
Years ago

The reason they are flopping is because of the ridiculous amount of charges being called when the defender has one if not 2 legs in the air!

Reply #560854 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

How many legs the defender has in the air is utterly irrelevant.

Reply #560862 | Report this post


Scuba  
Years ago

Goulding has made a pathetic attempt at a flop atleast once in every one of MU's games so far this season. Correct me if I'm mistaken but I don't think he has been warned once, let's be honest he IS the NBL's golden boy this season....

Reply #560886 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Years ago

I hadn't seen the Wortho squirrel so thanks for including that link. What was the outcome? Should have been an unsportsmanlike foul for playing with the man (or was it for playing with the ball?)

Did anyone else see Wortho deliberately run at another player on offense and knock him backwards but nothing get called? Perhaps the defender should have flopped in order to get the refs' attention.

All this no-calling is turning the game into a farce which depends on the mood of the refs at the expense of the fans and the rules.

Reply #560989 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

They no longer make me feel angry , just ho hum bored with their nonsense.

Reply #561295 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

I found it unusual in last night's Croc's v Wildcats game that a player on each team received a flop warning by officials, yet nothing really came of it and I think there were at least another couple of flops in the game that were ignored.

So, the question may be asked, what can actually be done?

Reply #561300 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

I seem to recall a player ejected for 2 flops,
last season, or perhaps the season before,
(maybe goulding in perth)

Reply #561314 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I think it was Madgen in Perth, one of the 'flops' when Earnest Ross ran into him! Refs just aren't capable of policing this on the run.

Reply #561317 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes, it was Madgen in Perth. Same game Childress got tossed for the elbow on Wagstaff and Damian Martin almost ended Kendrick Perry's career.

Reply #561475 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

Above post was me. Had to use a different browser, forgot to log in.

Reply #561476 | Report this post


Thunder Jam  
Years ago

Simple - Don't give a warning. Immediate tech foul and carry on.

Reply #561706 | Report this post


swish  
Years ago

While I hate it when my team gets the charging foul on an obvious flop I just think it is part of the game.
When a ball goes out of court players form both teams try to tel the umpire it didn't come off them. SOmetimes they actually beleive it, sometimes they are just trying to fool the umpire for the benefit of their team.
In most cases - if the defender doesn't fall over the charge won't be called.
Remember Golding backing Sobey down in the low post. Golding was jumping / bumping into Sobey's chest. No call. Eventually the contact "forces" Sobey to fall over - and he gets a flopping warning. Does this mean the defender has to use all his strenght to stand up against a player bumping into him?
What happend when Jawai backs Randle down in the post. If Randle falls over is he a flopper?

Reply #561713 | Report this post


Thunder Jam, the issue isn't the punishment isn't working. The issue is the refs aren't able to effectively police the problem, as paul said. Giving out techs won't fix the problem with inconsistent penalties.

Reply #561726 | Report this post


Luuuc  
Years ago

It really is a tough call for a ref to make in the moment. I think it's too much burden on them. Let them call the obvious ones, in which case maybe we don't need the warning before the tech, but have a post-game system in place to make sure that all incidents are is captured and dealt with consistently.

Reply #561755 | Report this post




 

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