Earlier this year

Refs supporting Refs

As an incentive to support and keep refs at Knox for a long period (years) of time... It's encouraged when they ref each other in games either as a player or coach that new rules are legalising but only for them (or their team) such as 6 to 7 step travels, rugby tackles, swinging arm bars, intentional kneeing etc.

Is it that hard to keep referees today that special considerations need to be made?

I thought the referee being paid a wage (per game) would be enough.

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Earlier this year


Reply #745401 | Report this post

Earlier this year

Refs actually get paid squat to ref in comparison to other sports, most do it for less than minimum wage.

Also if u dont like the ref standard then become a ref urself and show what u can do better or keep being a whinger in the bottom levels of knox domestic.

Also a hint making the ref angry isnt going to make the ref give u better calls during the game......when will people learn??

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Earlier this year

During the big junior tournaments in vic it is good to see VJBL send officials to review the performance of refs, often filming games.
It is a real pleasure to see good performances by refs. Perhaps more of us should go out of our way to compliment them when this happens.

Reply #745459 | Report this post

Earlier this year

Actually - as a follow up - to those interested in ref matters. To what extent is there support for refs - particularly experienced refs - to provide educative advice to junior players? Say on the sidelines, or during breaks?

Do people think there is virtue in refs picking up good practice from a different ref tradition, in rugby, where the ref will voice his/her concerns as the play unfolds eg "watch the reach ins" or screens that turn into shepherding.

I believe in AFL, that the umps will brief the coaches on what they are looking for; or how they will interpret a particular rule.

My sense is that junior players are often not coached properly; and genuinely wonder why they cop the fouls they do. Bewilderment leads to frustration and aggression.

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Earlier this year

Enjoyed refereeing with one of the city's top lawyers. He use to joke that he was losing around $300 an hour doing league men games.

Reply #745497 | Report this post

Earlier this year

"I believe in AFL, that the umps will brief the coaches on what they are looking for; or how they will interpret a particular rule."

Not sure about the lower level games but most definitely in comps like SEABL refs always have spoken to the coaches when they "meet" prior game on the court of exactly what points they were be looking for and their interpretations. Unsure why you don't know that.

Reply #745536 | Report this post

Earlier this year


Regarding this: 'I believe in AFL, that the umps will brief the coaches on what they are looking for; or how they will interpret a particular rule.'

'My sense is that junior players are often not coached properly; and genuinely wonder why they cop the fouls they do. Bewilderment leads to frustration and aggression.'

I have quite often questioned those who manage the officials about their point of emphasis, as a coach it is good I believe to be on the same page as often as possible.

I do however find that while coaches can get frustrated with their players at times, it is always easier to coach kids on court when the officials are also on board with the coaches and call the continued contact, especially at the young junior age level.

Hard to coach young kids when they are all hands in, no room to move or dribble, being pushed off the ball and such contact is just ignored, so while I agree with you on this point I would just like to point out that when coaches and officials can get on the same page it really helps everyone.

Reply #745538 | Report this post

Earlier this year

Junior refs should be "coaching" all players in how to follow the rules, and thanking players for their displays of good sportsmanship (such as calling the ball out if they touch it last).

I've reffed basketball, Aussie rules and soccer (soccer very badly btw). I’ve always reffed that way. Communication is key. In basketball, I’ve sometimes called a violation out of bounds, when minor contact by defensive player leads to ball going out off offensive player. Only if the contact wasn’t enough to warrant a foul, but did disadvantage the offensive team. I have been questioned about this, but gave the defensive coach the option of Changing the call to a foul.

In Aussie Rules, I’ve reffed Auskick games at half time in AFL games. In Auskick in my area, trying to mark with 2 hands (ie practicing a skill young kids need to learn) is supposed to be rewarded with a mark being paid. As kids get older, we just expect them to get closer to a real mark to pay it. At the AFL half time games, I monitored to see which kids hadn’t had a kick. Towards the game’s end, I tried to pay a free kick to the kids who haven’t had a touch. Parents want to take their kids to play at the Gabba, Metricon or even the MCG, to have their 6m 7 or 8 year olds be able to say they had a kick. Denying a young kid an experience like that is wrong.

In junior sport, we’re not playing for sheep stations. We’re here for kids to have a good time with their mates and develop skills, teamwork and sportsmanship. Everything else is secondary until you get to around 15 or so. Then the kids know who’s good and should have developed the maturity to handle not being “the winner”. Perhaps parents need to learn this too. They should be modelling respect for the people who are in authority and make their games possible.

Reply #745562 | Report this post

Earlier this year

Parents and players often become too passionate, while referees can often have trouble controlling the game. This is usually the point when personal feelings rise to the surface and the game stops being enjoyable to play, coach or referee.

From my experience as a referee controlling the game without becoming too emotionally invested will solve most issues on court. And often helps mitigate technical fouls.

I've seen many talented referees, players and coaches leave the sport over the years because they make it too personal.

Reply #745956 | Report this post

Earlier this year

I had a giggle when first reading this post, but sadly it's more common than what you think. My A grade team had one of these games tonight. One referee on court was friends with the opposition coach who's also a referee. Needless to say the call were heavily swayed and these two girls are normally spot-on with their calls.

Reply #746073 | Report this post

Earlier this year

Sample (across 60 games) of my rep league shows that on average fouls for the home teams are 11.05 per game versus away team 11.5 per game. No discernible difference at all. One centre had 4 fouls per game less for the home team which suggested some favouritism, but when I looked at the average for that team playing away it was about the same. None of this is statistically sound b/c the sample for each centre was only 5 or 6, but was nonetheless pleasing to see. Would be interested to know if VJBL had run the stats across the rep leagues to identify any anomalies that should be looked at further ...

Reply #746415 | Report this post

Earlier this year

@Red84 "My sense is that junior players are often not coached properly; and genuinely wonder why they cop the fouls they do. Bewilderment leads to frustration and aggression."

This is one of my greatest frustrations with the game today, as a coach and an umpire in two sports this comment sums up the issue. Coaches today are seen as the problem! Over the last 15 years the level of refereeing in basketball (VJBL and Domestic) has decreased dramatically and the answer from VBRA has been to enforce penalty's against coaches! Rather than increase education or mentoring of referees. We can say that due to the increased popularity of the game team number has increased which then requires more referees but should we accept a lower standard, which then leads to increase frustration?

Reply #746503 | Report this post

Earlier this year

Each time I see this topic title I think it's the name of a new outreach program for referees.

Reply #746544 | Report this post

red 31  
Earlier this year

we should start a discussion around the refs who have left Knox and the reasons why.I have it on very good authority from a parent of an ex referee of a competition held among current referees to see who can evict the most number of people from a stadium on a weekly basis - Domestic competition.
Twin brothers are very active in this area and keep all progress in a book for reference.

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