When did Kobe win 6 titles....6 finals MVP's???? Jordan didnt win those MVP's for his overwhelming defense...a scoring machine.

Enough said!

...when did Kobe average 38 a game an entire season, and 45 a game in a playoff round?

or have a CAREER average of 30 per game...


great link though....my afternoon is complete now!

Kobe couldn't blow smoke up MJ's butt.
Not in the same league. Not on the same planet.
What he doesn't get is that it's NOT all about Kobe. And the harder he tries the more he proves himself wrong.
Kobe's LA are not contenders - MJ's Chicago were ALWAYS contenders.
No contest.

Here's an interesting question to ponder:

Which three players (I think there are only three) have scored 2000 regular season points or more in seven consecutive seasons?

MJ is one (in fact he would have done it ten times in a row had it not been for his baseball stint - maybe we can count 2000 strike outs?)

Who are the other two? One is easy but the other might not be your first guess.

Hmmm, I'll nibble (#125715): Wilt Chamberlain (easy) and Alex English (not first guess)?

Re: Kobe. I find him fascinating. It seems like he has just flicked the switch, and decided to drop 60-50-60.

I remember reading a very recent poll in a Yank magazine (either Sports Illustrated or ESPN) which had a players' poll asking who was the most difficult player in the NBA to defend.

Kobe was first on 26%, Shaq was second on about 14%, and I think the other two in the top four were Iverson and someone else (possibly Nash?), both under 10%. Guys like Lebron and Wade didn't finish top 4.

When it's 1 in 4 NBA players themselves saying how good he is, it carries a bit more weight for me than the usual media/interwebbers' talk.

Interesting link, pro-Kobe obviously. No reference to Kobe's somewhat questionable shot selection. Also a lot of references to Kobe being just 25 years of age ... um, he's 28, going on 29 this year. That's a big difference in basketball years in terms of maturity and experience.

Purely for scoring, Kobe's right up there, maybe a fraction ebhind MJ. In terms of the complete package, MJ all the way...

Jordan averaged 44 in the 93 series v the Suns - he dominated.

Glad you are all on my side.

I argued that the league was better in Jordan's day with more teams focused on Defense (Detroit style) and the and the hand check rule was still around so it was some what easier to defend.

His argument is based around everyone being more athletic.

Kobe is a better scorer than jordan. jordan had 15 seasons to get that carrer average of 30ppg kobe is in his 10 and hes averaging 24ppg also comming straight out of high school so he had to develop in the nba and not collage like jordan. In my oppionion Kobe will have more carrer points that jordan when he retires kobe is in his prime now and doing this jordan couldnt eg 81 point game.

Turns out there were a few and my source was wrong saying there was three. So far we have (all correct):

Wilt
MJ
Mailman
English

There are actually at least two more. One pre 80's and one post 80's.

VC21, Jordan retired for 3 years in his prime - his average would have been more had he not. He retired after the 93 championship when he was physically at his peak.

Clarify: post 1980 (not post 80's)

Hot Heat,

Without checking into whether others have done it - Karl Malone & Wilt have both had 7 consecutive seasons of 2000+.

Though I would have thought they both would've been reasonably obvious answers?

For starters he retired for 2 years not 3 and just because he mite have played for to more seasons does not mean his adverage would be higher he mite have only scored 30 points not even for those 2 seasons nobody knows..

I difference between the two. Jordan knew how to pass the rock as well. U watch Kobe's games he doesn't know how to. Why do u think players like Shaq left!!!!!!

Back to the actual topic. I don't many people disliked MJ. Perhaps a few more dont like Kobe which is one of the reasons why MJ always wins these types of debates. (He would probably still come out on top if the question was: "Who played more games for the Lakers: Kobe or MJ??")

I think Kobe is a better perimeter shooter than Jordan, I'm not sure about whether he is a better scorer. It depends whether you are talking about scoring in general (Kobe has a chance) or scoring when your team needs it and when it matters (MJ all the way).

I'm not even going to dignify this thread with a response...hang on, I just did...damn it

SVD I have a question. How old is your friend?

I do not ask this for maturity or to bag him or anything like this. Just simply is he pro Kobe because this was the first guy he saw and was too young for the true "Jordan era"? Seeing Kobe as "the best there is" and refusing to look in the past. Or he only recently got into basketball?

It would be like me comparing Jordan to Wilt, I saw a lot of Jordan games and watched a lot of those finals series in full as they were happening, but Wilt was slightly before my time, so any footage I see are highlights and "flash backs" so I don't feel I could truly compare the two (I could try but&), as I may be biased towards my early hero (MJ). However I feel I could compare MJ-Kobe to an extent (if I was following the NBA now as I used to), as I would have seen both.

Something worth considering? I don't know...

Would be interested to know what odds you could get on Kobe going for 50 or more in his next game (against NOOCH tomorrow morning our time). Or 60 or more.

My prediction: at least 40.

We are both 31 (so probably too old to be having this argument) - we grew up in the age of Jordan. So we saw all those classic games - the Piston match ups, the 35 he dropped on Portland in a half, the 44 avg v the Suns, the flu game against the Jazz, the 72 win season.

He has also Pontel'd 2 entire seasons of Kobe, so he has Kobe play alot.

He always thought that people who talk glowingly about Jordan have "bought into the hype". He says he was just another good ball player - no better than Kobe or Wade or BronBron.

I think wilt is a better scorer.

but hey, why even bother talking about jordan. all the fanboys will defend him until the end. dont forgot kobes only 28. hes got 7-10 more years in him to win more titles. and jordan always had the better team.

Yeah - the team Kobe had of Shaq, Karl malone and Payton was not that good :)

Jordan always had the better team????
What was the roster when he had 49, 63 and 40 (I think) in a 3 game series??? Daily, Oakley, Wooldridge...pffft.

Jordan was a winner, and did whatever he had to win, Kobe is a Kobe lover, and does whatever he can for Kobe!
He can score, and score amazingly, but MJ was the complete package...
MJ also got DPOY when he averaged 37.1.

enough said

Ok killed my arguement SVD...

If anyone hasn't read the book "The Jordan Rules" by Sam Smith, I strongly encourage you to do so. It puts to rest some of the theories in this debate that Jordan was a team player from the start etc etc..

Nevertheless, Jordan is the better scorer, but only just (by reason of his post up game as far as I'm concerned). Better golfer, better poker player, better defender, better rebounder, better passer, better most things really

Kobe is a complete hog of the ball, he scores highly because the rest of his team cant. If MJ took as many of his teams shots as Kobe he would've averaged 60+.

Sorry but Kobe isnt ever going to be in the same league, he got to grow up learning from Jordan, and hes still nowhere near as good.

Can I have a little ball Isaac?

35 posts inside an hour and half - livened things up for the day.

Need to break my cherry!

cant live up to his shoe deals? whatever that means.

the handcheck rule actually helped jordan, because it helped him get fouled more. in contrast, the refs dont look after kobe (or wilt) at all.

23 before 24 for me.

Kobe came straight outta high school

Jordan came from College

Kobe to a team that had stars already in it....and didnt get court time

Jordan to a lesser team where it became his from the start

Kobe would be more of a flat out scorer than Jordan

But.......both in their Prime.,.....tough one, but i would have to say Jordan by a whisker

Well according to NBA Live, Jordan reached a max player rating of 99, Kobe so far has only reached 96.

I think that just about covers it!

NBA Live nail it

This can be decided by who Nino has named one of his cats after. Any boxing match against Rocky can be decided by the same method.

SVD, your little ball time will come, be patient, you don't want to be begging for them, makes you look you desperate and needy ;)

After a little research I have conclued Jordan is easily the better player.

After comparing them both, Jordan still has so much more. He has a ROY, 5 MVPS, 6 Finals MVPS, 3 more Championships, 9 more Scoring Titles, 4 more All-Star Appearances, 1 more All-Star game MVP, 3 more All-NBA selections, 3 more All-Defensive selections, 1 more DPOY, 1 more Dunk Championship and 2 more Olympic Gold Medals. Add to that the fact Jordan was named in the greates 50 players on earth in 96 (and Kobe wasnt, granted he was a rookie and will probably be there one day but isnt yet!) and the case is fairly lopsided.

All that said, Kobe will still be considered one of the greats when he is finished, but until he wins a ring without Shaq and an MVP he really cant be compared in terms of effect on the game.

Well kobe got 50 again and is one of two players to ever score 50 points 4 time in a row - seems pretty good to me. I dont think doing a little research on Jordans achievements compared to kobe's will do much justice considering Kobe's got another 7 years left in him. But before all the Jordan lovers start talking about how Kobe is a hog, consider this... Have the Lakers won thier last 4 games?? Seems like a winner to me.

They cant be compared

Not numbers wise

The reason Kobe's arent that high are the fact for the first 2 seasons he was playing in a team of Vets.....he was never gonna get the playing time Jordan did when he came into the league

4 straight 50 pt games........says something about a player

And i wouldnt say hog....He avg's 4.5 assists a game over his career...Jordans was 5.3 over his

wow, jordans won more dunk comps than kobe! he must be the best

Thanks Hustle & 125942 - as Larry Bid once said "you said it all when you said it"

Billo - I know I feel dirty - it was Friday arvo and my last post before heading to the pub - I was excited ... now I just feel cheap :)

SVD - I see you earned a ball in a previous thread, kudos to you, how much better is it when you earn it legitimately?

Anon 125942 - looks like that article was written a while ago, before his 81 point outburst. It's also a pretty lame line to take IMO, the whole "if Dallas were playing proper defence" has now surely been debunked by repeated high scoring performances against a variety of teams. The "he took 31 shots in 33 minutes" is rubbish too, if you're going to score 62 points you'll need to take a lot of shots to get there, it's an amazing feat to actually get that many shots off in that many minutes, and the fact he was hitting most of them surely vindicates his decision to keep shooting. Actually, most of what that Rashidi guy wrote seemed pretty incoherent and irrelevant.

"Larry Bid"

A little birdy once told me that "bid" is not the correct spelling...







...not funny

this is stupid every1 knows jordan is the best and although kobe has got alot of points recently look at his percentage (not that good) and if he shoots a bad %%% and still scores that much it really says something about the player. HOG!!!

Jordan scored his 69 in a vital playoff game, against eventual NBA Champion Boston Celtics, led by Larry Bird. Kobe scored his 81 against the hapless Raptors in a meaningless season match-up. I'll take MJ's 69 in the heat of battle against one of the games greatest over Kobe's pathetic open shoot-around anyday.

Additionally, MJ had 18 rebounds to go with his 69 points, and 6 assists. Let evaluate Kobe: His 81 point game, do you recall how many assists he had? TWO! How about his recent 43 points following his string of 50's... ZERO assists!

Kobe is talented, but leave him out of sentences that involve Jordan, it's a waste of time to even try and discuss...

More so, Kobe will NEVER do any of the following:

Win a College NCAA Championship.
Be college Player of the year.
Win another ring (he can thank Shaq for his 3 and only).
Win the Rookie of the Year award.
Win a finals MVP (MJ has 6).
Win 5 MVP awards in his career (People had to come up with reasons "not" to give MJ the award every season).
Average 37 a game (Mj did in 86-87).
Average 32 points, 8 ASSISTS, and 8 boards for a season (MJ again in 88-89).
3 All-Star MVP's
Average over 30 points a game for his career.
Shoot 50% for his career.
Be NBA scoring Champions 10 times.
Be ALL-Defense team 9 times.
Transcend the game of basketball(and sports, for that matter).

Kobe's resume will never live up to MJ's.

oh, and Kobe will never be the NBA's second all-time leader in steals...

I have always been of the opinion that Jordan will always be better then Kobe however reading the article below has put a different spin on to my thoughts. Read it and see if it changes your views!

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070326&sportCat=nba

Read it, and nope, MJ is THE Man.

You seem pretty sure of yourself CD. im sure jordan thanks pippen every single day for his 6 championships that he won. your posts are very immature. you're acting like he's retired already. he's never won a college title? nice one.

Wow CD get your facts right, that game was against Cleveland in the regular season.

He got 63 against the Celtics - that is amazing but his 69 point 18 rebound game was in the regular season against the medicore Cavs

CD, Jordan's scored 63 not 69 and it came in a game that the Bulls lost in a series in which they were swept. Takes the shine off it a bit, don't you think?

Jasmine, No.

They were swept by the eventual champs and Jordan was playing his 20th? game for the season.
Averaged 43 points @ 50% 6 reb and 6 assists against one of the best line ups of all time...Bird, Mchale, Parish etc...

All in his second season as a pro...

I think the shine is back.

DB5, Jordan never scored 69 points in a playoff game.

CD said "Jordan scored his 69 in a vital playoff game, against eventual NBA Champion Boston Celtics, led by Larry Bird"

Shine on, shine off...CD is wrong.

Fair call...from memory he scored 69 against the Cavs, and possibly the Magic in Shaq's first match up with the Bulls.

49, 63 and 50? was against the Celts with Bird etc...

But you are right, the facts were wrong..
: )

He got 61 against the Magic in Shaqs first year.

yeah, I saw that yesterday...I did say possibly...

^^ Spot on, couldn't have said it better myself.

Jordan can not shoot outside like KObe,Kobe dribbles better.How many rings MJ won without scottie Pippen.Who play defense for him to reserve his energy for offense.

Jordan had the better overall game, but Kobe is a better scorer. Michael Jordan is the GOAT.

dn, please go and watch some Jordan games.

To say MJ didn't play much defence (or whatever your trying to suggest) is just plain stupid. A 1987-88 DPOY trophy in MJ's cabinet would like to argue with you.

Don't see Pippens name on that list.....

DN- You cannot say Jordan didn't play defense:

In each of the 5 seasons Jordan won the regular season MVP award, he was also selected to the 1st team ALL Defensive team.

2nd All-time NBA leader in steals

9 time NBA ALL-Defensive 1st team Selections (Which is the all-time record for number of 1st team selections)

1987-88 Defensive Player of the year (also won season MVP and All-Star MVP this year).

Think this proves Jordan was dominating on both ends of the floor. If you take the completeness of his game (on both ends), with his ability to dominate and lead his team to championships (He's never lost a Finals) and it's pretty obvious who comes out on top...


Another interesting fact: when he finished his career in Chicago, Jordan was the Bulls' all-time franchise leader in points, rebounds, assists, steals, games played, Regular season and Finals MVP's, All-Defensive team selections and Championships. Unfortunately, Kobe will not even be the greatest Laker in any of these categories.