Anonymous
Years ago

Nationals 18's and 16's

After the classic, anyone care to offer their thoughts on the 18's and 16's nationals in a few weeks time ?

Topic #16165 | Report this topic


amanda jones  
Years ago

Yeh bring it on! hmmm 18 girls um Vic Metro? under 16 girls um Vic Metro. Under 18 boys WA metro Under 16 boys Vic Metro or WA. All i know is that there are a lot of injuries out there!

Reply #190405 | Report this post


Mr T  
Years ago

16 metro girls to get hammered; 16 Country girls to get hammered.

Now bring on the "your kid must have missed out on a spot" comments from the SASI police please.

Reply #190414 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

i must agree 16 teams to get hammered,
18 teams girls. metro pushing semis, country 7-8 playoff.
18 guys - not up top, but not down bottom for both metro and country

Reply #190457 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

18 womens will be interesting. All the AIS girls are going on a big tour to france where they will get seriously fatigued, and arrive back in AUS mere days before their first games at nationals. So the tournament is really going to be a big oppourtunity for some of the more obscure players from states to really step up and turn some heads. But unfortunately this probably favours VIC metro's depth more then anything.

Reply #190482 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

wouldn't it also benefit the good players, whom were overlooked for AIS while still perform better than other players normally

Reply #190513 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Time will tell on your predictions Mr T lets hope you have the guts to come back on here and admit if you are wrong. I dont think they will get hammered in their games and I think you may be well surprised how competitive they are

Reply #190515 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think the under 16 metro girls have more of chance than most give them credit for after looking at the clasic stats.
The under 18 girls would probably medal with a different coach.
The under 18 boys 5th and under 16 boys about 8th.

Reply #190564 | Report this post


Goggone  
Years ago

U18 boys get a 2nd and 3rd at Classics and aren't going to make top 4? Plus they just beat the U20 State team tonight, all be it 7 out of the 10! Me thinks you might be eating your words!

Reply #190567 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

who cares with Kingsman at the AIS it doesnt matter where they will come. The country teams will still all do better in the long run even if they come last. He will make sure of that!!!!

Reply #190574 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I would gladly if they do, as for under 18 girls meda with different coach, doubt tha much. He was named ABL womens coach of year last season. That would surely imply he is right up amongst the bet in the state

Reply #190590 | Report this post


Mr T  
Years ago

(#190515)One thing I will not have to do is get back on here and eat humble pie; thats a given. 3 girls are very VERY unlucky to have missed out on that squad for the sake of 1st years. I hope you get back on here and tell me I was right!

(#190482) Girls on the Gems tour get back 2 days before they fly out to the Nationals, tough call.

Reply #190594 | Report this post


Flanders  
Years ago

Mr T,

I can almost see the tear from here. Maybe those first years are just better!

Reply #190600 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

You will know pretty quickly if U16 boys are up to it, play Vic Metro in 1st game.

Their pool does not look that strong so could make medal rounds even if they lose 1st game.

Reply #190602 | Report this post


*tear*  
Years ago

"3 girls are very VERY unlucky "

I wonder which one is Mr T's?

Reply #190604 | Report this post


jibba jabba  
Years ago

... look for the reserve with gold chains and a mohawk.

Reply #190608 | Report this post


Mr T  
Years ago

Im not for 1 moment saying that all 1st years dont deserve their spot; there are two that certainly do & one of them IMO was a walk up start; however if anyone with ANY coaching experience at district level can tell me that a couple of 1st years that have been picked are better value than what they are leaving behind, then I'll show them a pig with wings and a jet engine for an ass.

Reply #190622 | Report this post


Tryer  
Years ago

Your right, doesnt matter which girls perform well,(even the ones that do still miss out????????) you either FIT or you dont! (You gotta get your State coach to care about ya first ?

Reply #190623 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Gems kids your right are half injured already! Lots of sore knees/feet?

Reply #190625 | Report this post


Flanders  
Years ago

Mr T, What exactly are your qualifications regarding coaching at National Championships? Or your understanding of what the coach was asking of players? Of the bottom age players, 3 are from the State Champion team, who have only 2 top age state players. 1 from Forestville I imagine is somebody you consider being a walk up start. And the other IMHO is the 2nd best point guard, which allows other players to play their natural position.

Reply #190638 | Report this post


Mr T  
Years ago

Sorry Ned(#190638), I didnt know that attaching resumes while posting here was a prerequisite on this site.

Do you need to know my qualifications exactly or just a brief history?

If I told you a Corn Flakes packet had anything to do with it, would it help you?

"Of the bottom age players, 3 are from the State Champion team".... yeah thats a fact, but your point is?

I didnt think they could screw up 2 16 Nationals in a row, but I guess even I'm wrong sometimes.

Reply #190650 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sorry for starting this thread, they alsways turn into a bagging session on selection and coaches.

I just wanted know who you thought would do well. I will be more specific next time.

For what it is worth, here are mine.

U/18 women - Vic Metro by a street

U/18 boys - SA, Vic M and Qld Sth in the hunt

U/16 Boys - Both Vics and WA Met in the hunt

U/16 Girls - Vic M

Reply #190657 | Report this post


Flanders  
Years ago

Well my opinion is that you are nothing but an ignorant bitching parent, who is more interested in bagging people anonomously than having the courage to put your name to it.

And why wouldn't the best kids from the best team make the State team?

Or would you rather have the weaker players from the weaker teams make it, so your kid can have a go.

Reply #190665 | Report this post


tiger coach  
Years ago

The only way to answer this is to ask the coach. You can all complain as much as you like, but would any of you do their job. Picking a team is as much about picking the best players as it is about team chemistry. To quote from another thread, Norwood v North I believe, "A champion team will always beat a team of champions".

And Mr T and Flanders, Mrs Lovejoy wants to ask, "Won't somebody please think of the children!!".

Reply #190671 | Report this post


Mr T  
Years ago

Flanders your bias towards the "state champ team" is quite obvious. Winning state champs is a fantastic feat and nothing can take away from how well that team performed that weekend; however if you are saying that on winning state champs alone, all the blues kids are deserving then I dissagree.

My club has 3 kids selected for the 16's nationals girls team; however I am not so bias as to hide the fact that I thought all three would make it; two selected from my club shocked me, as did two from your "state champ team". Yes your assumption about the 1st year I thought would be a walk up start is correct. I assumed a tall from the same team would have been an asset over one of your kids and I assumed a former player from your team would have made the team as well. Are you saying Im not allowed to have an opinion because kids are involved?

The 16's girls all 2nd year team experiment failed last year; so now they seem to have gone to far the other way. It's my opinion on a public forum, whats your beef?

Are you dirty because I dont agree with you? Is it because I didnt provide my full name, address & telephone number?

Last time I checked there was no kid named Flanders in that particular state team.

Reply #190680 | Report this post


Flanders  
Years ago

Mr T, my problem is that you are an ignorant parent who is too gutless to put your name to a post that attacks other peoples kids. And that you don't think that results in tournaments means anything shows how stupid you are, in my honest opinion. That you think it an experiment, rather than the best 10 kids, shows that you really have no idea and is a disredit to those players that have worked hard to improve and make the team, as well as those who did not make it.

PS All the blues kids didn't make it. And those that didn't shouldn't have IMHO. But I didn't bitch about it, I would rather reinforce that they need to improve if they were my kid, rather than namelessly blame others, which in my opinion is an act of cowardice.

Reply #190697 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago


For what its worth I thought the Under 16 and 18 girl's teams had only one surprise choice in each which is in no way critical of the selected players just an observation.
The 16 girls are a short team but spirited and have some shooters, a new coach with strong assistants and more importantly they seem to get on-that cannot be overstated.
The 18 girls were weakened by an injury to their best tall and there appears to be no team chemistry at the moment which they have time to address. From the outside I can't tell if they get on or not but there is a different buzz from the 16 group that the 18's could use.

Reply #190710 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Your right, team chemistry does count for alot for the performance over a carnival such as this. If the team cannot get on then it is almost a certainty that they will not play completly as a team over the week.

The 18 girls losing their best big is defintly a setback, and as such may cause the coach to have to go to players he would prefer playing on the other stronger players on opposing teams if otherr teams taget this slight weakness.

Reply #190714 | Report this post


Mr T  
Years ago

Flanders you comment "you are an ignorant parent who is too gutless to put your name to a post" has been done time and time again, almost word for word when anyone EVER questions a state team or SASI process and most people are quite aware of this.

It is obvious where your associations lay.

Can I suggest that if you honestly expect anyone on here to put their name and contact details to their post, then start the ball rolling and tell us who you really are, or put up with it!. Are you an "ignorant parent who is too gutless to put your name to a post?"

I am allowed to comment on this post just like anyone else. Freedom of speach is a great thing, it just isnt on the agenda down your way, is it?

Flanders....Pfffhhht try anon or Little Man next time!

Reply #190747 | Report this post


pity the fool  
Years ago

Mr T,

I don't think anyone denies your right to comment - but the issue that I have is that you insinuate, if not outrightly state, that 3 of the girls do not deserve their place in our state side. Not only that, but you pretty much state who they are. How do you think these girls, who have worked hard and sacrificed their weekends pretty much since early March, feel to be anonymously sniped at by someone who sadly is most likley an adult? Is that fair on them?

But hey, if you get your kicks taking pot-shots at 14 year old girls.....

Reply #190752 | Report this post


unbiased observer  
Years ago

It has become very apparent from my personal viewpoint that being involved in junior basketball would have to be one of the most cut-throat, dog eat dog sporting communities out there, I did think the soccer community had its problems but perhaps it is because of this website that true feelings are aired and shared.

What I have learnt in my few years of being involved in junior basketball is that the kids need to toughen up because there is always someone willing to take a swipe and say "that this one is not good enough" and "so and so doesnt bring the qualities to the team that is needed" it is very much a case of watch your back and open your ears, and the kids should be told that yes there are the knockers BUT you need to prove them wrong, so go out and do your best.

Reply #190757 | Report this post


Mr T  
Years ago

Oh my goodness(#190752) you have got to be kidding. Get off your very high horse will you.

I was shocked that 3 girls that have been picked made it and all of a sudden I "outrightly state, that 3 of the girls do not deserve their place in our state side" Im sure they are not sitting in their bedrooms wimpering about nast old Mr T.

Another "person" anonymously sniping me for accusing me of anonymously sniping others.

You dont see how stupid that is?

Reply #190764 | Report this post


unbiased observer  
Years ago

PS and the advice is the same for those that did and those that didnt make it........

Reply #190771 | Report this post


---  
Years ago

Unbiased: Have you read the soccer forum? Take a read and tell me that soccer is any different.

http://www.footballnews.com.au/forum/

I think you will find it is just as bitchy if not worse. Try reading the topic on Basketball in trouble and read that only 'freaks' play the game!! Page 2 under NBL in trouble.

Reply #190772 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Mr T

Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch - give it up!

Reply #190774 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I'd like to see how much better the girl's teams would go with female coaches because there is a wealth of female coaching talent that is completely ignored by those referred to as the 'boys club'.
One apparent weakness is the inability of some of the present coaches to connect with their team. Its overdue to give the some of these talented women a state team.
Anon above hit the nail on the head with team spirit because despite debate about whether they have the right players in the team, this group has a good feel and they sound tight.

Reply #190779 | Report this post


Mr T  
Years ago

(#190779)Long overdue.

Reply #190781 | Report this post


Name names please  
Years ago

190779,

I am struggling to come up with who you may be referring to. If you could name this female coaching talent that may help. If you can then your post has some credibility.

By the way I don't disagree, I just want you to put names up, that's all.

Reply #190783 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

190779

Yes you are right they do have a good feel about them - they are an incredibly cohesive group. The group includes the players, the coaches and manager - there is a great deal of respect - in all directions.

Female coaches - perhaps start another thread. I would be interested to hear who the good ones are. While my daughter has had mostly male coaches (all fantastic - I know hard to believe a parent thinks coaches are fantastic), she has also benefited from the input of two female coaches, both also fantastic.

Reply #190784 | Report this post


Will-i-am  
Years ago

Mr T,

As an amonomous sniper. Where you bitching about an anonomous sniper? Does that not stike you as hypocitical?

Reply #190785 | Report this post


pity the fool  
Years ago

Mr T,

You are an adult taking a pot-shot at children. You demean junior players who love their sport and make many sacrifices for it by saying they do not deserve their oppurtunity to represent our state. You suggest they were not selected on the merit of their performance.

I think that people who anonymously attack children are weak.

And you haven't handled criticism or even a query on your credentials boy others well here, what makes you think young children will handle criticism better than you have?

But hey, whatever makes you feel better.

Reply #190793 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(#190785)You just got it did you? Well done!

SASI Police alive and well.

Now that Ive scared all the little children I might go looking for my next target, old ladys perhaps.

Reply #190809 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

'pity the fool' thank you, well said.

'Mr T' - Your assumption that only the usual SASI Police are criticising you is pathetic.

Reply #190818 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Mr T - you have identified children, now identify yourself and your child - how brave are you now? An adult taking potshots at children - disgraceful.

Reply #190819 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Carly Patterson, Tania Dhu, Kamala lamshed, Sharon Bailey, Ilze Nagy etc etc

Reply #190821 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

This is stupid, how about you all end the crap and stay off the subject of player selection??

Reply #190825 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

190821

The only name that I recognise is Ilze Nagy. She will be losing two players next season from her current team, one a first year, don't know the age of the other. Not a happy camp - she can't build cohesion, therefore can't build a successful team. Good talent in the team too. Bit like the Forestville under 16 girls, great talent - no cohesion.

Tell me about the other coaches you mention. Who are they, what's their experience? Have they coached successful teams? I recognise that a successful coach is also about how far you bring a team - for example - South's under 14's last year Coach was able to get them to 3rd position on the ladder. Who would have thought an under 14 South girls team would get that far.

Reply #190830 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

JO clarke used to be at west u/16 boys but now at eagles with the girls she knows what shes on about

Reply #190831 | Report this post


exsouth  
Years ago

#190830 Please, please, please do not go into the under 14 south girls team from last season. That coach was an absolute ...@@XXXXXX... having come from there! ONly his "favourites" were any good and stuff everybody else!! Yes I am a whinging parent!! Yes my daughter was one of his missions to destroy. So what it's time people understood that SOME coaches can do more harm than good and some clubs need to stand up to these coaches so they don't destroy the up and coming young kids hearts! Please have a go at me if you must but this is a forum and I am allowed to have my say!!! I am an angry parent that a club allowed this to happen. I guess what make it worse is that we came from a so called top club that was just as bad and still allows the same people to do the same things. I am quite aware that this post will send some people into a tizz and have a go at me but as I say again this is a form and I am allowed to have my opnion!!

Reply #190834 | Report this post


exsouth,

Freedom of speech is indeed your right and you are entitled to your opinion.

However with rights come responsibilities.

I fear that you don't actually know what these responsibilities are, or else you wouldn't have said what you have just said about someone who is a volunteer and is there for your daughter, performing a service that I am guessing you would not be willing or able to do.

A little more respect is in order regardless of what you think of this person.

Now can we actually discuss the topic which was the Under 16 and 18 Nationals coming up.

Reply #190842 | Report this post


Grod365  
Years ago

Ruffle a few feathers, and look at all the sasi Knuckleheads come out of the woodwork. Mr T, you dont dare say a word against this organisation or you cop it. Ooooh you said this ooh he said that. Pathetic.

Flanders = little man, pretty obvious.
pity the fool = hyserical parent.
name and address please = some one in the current scheme of things that wants to keep the boys club ticking.
Yell = I dont give a damn what you think, go ya hardest.

Reply #190846 | Report this post


exsouth  
Years ago

Dear More Respect Please

I have indeed been a volunteer in the basketball community both school (primary and high) and club. Both as manager and as a coach. "A little more respect" is all I asked for regarding my daughter and son in these clubs. I took over a young U14 boys team as no-one else would take it on. Even had to find my own training venue. I quite happily did this and enjoyed it! So please do not put me in the category as a parent who says all and does nothing.

It was thanks to the attitude of this particular coach (not all) that my daughter has lost total confidence and is now playing netball quite happily as she is not treated badly. I myself have played first class sport in basketball, hockey, swimming and lacrosse and no quite well what can happen if the younger community are directed in the right way. So please do not talk to me about responsibilities. If you would have been at the classics last year with the South group to hear the coach say that it was his plan to get every girl in that team to cry what would you think? That was in front of most parent as well not just me! The club was told of this and did nothing.
I am quite happy to take personal emails if you wish to talk to me about this.

Reply #190851 | Report this post


Wow  
Years ago

Grod, I find it amazing that you beleive that people not wanting kid's details plastered all over a public forum by some disgruntled parent are ALL from SASI. I am not from SASI and I am disgusted from the behaviour of "Mr T" as any descent person would be. Hell if you want have a crack coaches etc. go for it IMO but don't have a crack at their selections because this only reflects on the players (young kids) they selected. Bit harsh Mr T.

Reply #190852 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wow,

Don't worry, I suspect Grod365 = Mr T.

No normal person would condone attacking young kids on a forum.

Reply #190857 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

one thing for sure is that the 16 boys metro will struggle if what I saw at a pasadena last night between 2 so called top teams is any indication - talk about turnover city. The best kid on the court was one that was cut from sasi. Liam is in for a long week. One thing for sure is that norwood guy cannot coach. If only the sturt coach had that team. what a difference.

Reply #190900 | Report this post


Phfftt  
Years ago

One minute you knock both the teams then you state "if only the sturt coach had that team. what a difference" well his team is not that good either according to your post, so how can you turn around and make an observation that the Sturt coach would do better with the Norwood boys. So my question to you is this Better How??

Reply #190902 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon, why is he a bad coach? you say he cant coach but that team won summer and state champs!!! Mustbe doing ok with them as they arent the tallest team going around, especially compared to the sturt team!!!

Reply #190904 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon, why do you say he is not a good coach. His team won summer and state champs and he doesnt have the biggest team in the world, especially compared to sturt, so he must be doing something right?

Reply #190907 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Thursday SASI,Friday district games, Saturday 2 hour training, Sat night ABL for 90% of them,Sunday state training for 2 hours, Monday state game, Wed state game plus their district club trainings and whatever SASI commitments individuals have, might be considered over training following on from classics etc and anon, you wonder why the 18 girls are flat. Are all the teams following this schedule?

Reply #190908 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

sorry didnt think my first post worked

Reply #190909 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

190908 - what are you talking about Lewis?? Sturt, Norwood U16 boys, Girls State - please explain - your post has me utterly confused about what you are responding to

Reply #190920 | Report this post


TK  
Years ago

Liam can't coach either so those boys should be right at home.

Reply #190925 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#190908

90% do not play ABL, only 2 of the team get any real time and both deserve their places, many others are on the benchs for what i would beleive is experience. I agree that the players are somewhat overworked, but still with the right to represent the state you need to work. I would think many of the state players either play or train at least 5 days a week and as such would get tired, but if their ambition is to go onto bigger and better things, then this is the sacrifice that they must make.
So if players cannot make this sacrifice then obviuosly they should not be in the state team

Reply #190934 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#190908

90% do not play ABL, only 2 of the team get any real time and both deserve their places, many others are on the benchs for what i would beleive is experience. I agree that the players are somewhat overworked, but still with the right to represent the state you need to work. I would think many of the state players either play or train at least 5 days a week and as such would get tired, but if their ambition is to go onto bigger and better things, then this is the sacrifice that they must make.
So if players cannot make this sacrifice then obviuosly they should not be in the state team

Reply #190935 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

From the sounds of #190908's post, the SA metro 18 girls coaches had better start tapering off their players commitments. First game of nationals is in what, 2 weeks? Otherwise get ready to see ugly scorelines...

Reply #190937 | Report this post


Will-i-am  
Years ago

Considering the Sturt team finished 4th at the classics and twice nearly beat a team with 5 NSWM players, maybe we aren't that far of the pace.

I only wish that all State teams could have coaches with such good ABA results as Flynn and Weeks, for all those doubters. If they are good enough for Coach of the year, and NBL, who can we possible get better. Other than somebody who will pick your kid because they are your mate.

Reply #190939 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Carlo can't coach. Simple . That norwood team talent wise is 20 points better than every one here. Most people acknowledge that. Over the past 4 years the teams he has had and sure won summer this year - wwoppee do and granted deserved to win state champs. Outside of that they play with no structure and vic teams beat them 9 out of 10 times. They play run and gun basketball like they did last night except this time sturt had a kid that pumped em from the 3 point line and he alone upset them. All the state kids playing in that game except 13 for sturt were under par to say the least. They have been for weeks. Some of them were terrible at the classics, simple. Time will tell.

Reply #190941 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

The standard of 16 boys in this state has dropped markedly - results testify to that. This group of kids is pretty average.

Reply #190942 | Report this post


Will-i-am  
Years ago

What results are they? 4th at the classics isn't bad, considering the 3rd team had 5 State NSWM players!

What are the facts anon?

Reply #190953 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon, Norwood teams run and gun here from 16's to womens ABL and do it fairly well. It works against most smaller oposition and when your shooters are on and even when not on simply by the volume of quick shots providing you board a healthy percentage. Its draw back at Clasics or Nationals is coaches encounter teams that control the boards and they don't adapt or change their offense which explains their lower than expected positions interstate.

Reply #190964 | Report this post


Interesting  
Years ago

I have followed this thread from Friday onwards and at the risk of being attacked from some quarters, I would like to make a few points.

1st I don't see anyone on here putting up their name, address & phone numbers combined with their credentials as a matter of course when they post, so I find it strange it is being asked for by some and funny that the ones asking for credentials are not supplying their own. We are all, despite our aliases anonymous posters. I might add that a certain poster on here that has incurred the wrath of some may have already answered the credential question by answering "Corn Flakes packet" I would have thought this would have pointed out to a few that this person does not know what he or she is on about.

2nd I happen to agree with what would seem a minority view to a point regarding selections of the 16 girls metro team; however I think "shocked" is to much of a strong word. I am surprised at the selection of two players and equally surprised at the omission of two. The fact that I am surprised or others are shocked, mystified, stupefied or what ever in NO way detracts from the players who have been picked as they have the full backing of state selectors and SASI. It is a very small group; most of the group IMHO were no brainers leaving the ones that surprised some pretty easy to identify. I am certainly not "attacking" kids I am merly having an opinion. I think some should clam down a little! My credentials are only that I have watched the sport for the past 30+ years. I guess I don't know what I'm talking about either?

3rd the original poster of this thread said "anyone care to offer their thoughts on the 18's and 16's nationals in a few weeks time ?" and we now have debate on the issue. The debate was always going to come down to selections and forum rules regarding juniors must be adhered to. As long as these rules are met then I personally don't see the problem with the debate. If you have a problem then ask the moderator to lock the thread, or erase the offending post. Might I suggest that maybe in the future the mere original intention to have others offer "thoughts" on the upcoming nationals be banned in the future.

On second thoughts, if we are going to ban the "thoughts" on upcoming events we might as well scrap the whole forum.

The fact that state teams have been picked should encourage debate, no matter if the participants are 14 or 40. The opinions of others should in no way detract from the fact that they have been selected the best team in the state.

Go give them hell girls, good luck.

Reply #190990 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

All of that team spirit will vanish in the 16 girls if the coach drags players for one error but doesn't apply the rule to his point.

Reply #190993 | Report this post


Team player  
Years ago

Look at all the experts on hoops SA

Reply #190995 | Report this post


Victorian  
Years ago

Who cares about the girls anyway. All the bitching etc is hormonal and inbuilt is it not. Good luck to em anyway. Just don't bitch on an open forum. They'll finish playing in 2-3 years and then go off and have babies and make their men satisfied won't they. Isn't that the purpose of a females life !!! They could save the cost of running the carnivals and give it to the boys program.

Reply #190997 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Victorian were your mother and father related?

Reply #191003 | Report this post


Victorian  
Years ago

My sister is my mum

Reply #191004 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Is she bold and beautiful?

Reply #191005 | Report this post


curio  
Years ago

wot chance are the metro U16 boys? How do they compaire to last few years?

play vic metro first up, are they a chance?

how strong is the country group this year?

Reply #191019 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Im not too sure how strong either are, however i would believe that thefirst match against vic metro would give some indication about the relative strengths of the teams. Seeing as SAM beat SAC i would believe that SAM are the stronger team, however SAC did have a few players missing, but not sure how much difference those players would have on the overall effect.

Reply #191020 | Report this post


amanda jones  
Years ago

Victorian you are a clown and please dont debase the Big V with your bizarre interpretation of what women do or want as you clearly have NO idea!

And why not get back to the debate perhaps you may look at the draws and see what games the SA teams may or may not win and that may give you an understanding of how you will do for the tournament. If you knew what was happening with teams in other states that would assist. Do any of you actually connect with coaches/parents/kids from other states?

There has been little discussion of how you will do and plenty on what you wont do due to poor selection process. The good news is, is that this same debate is conducted in every state by parents who's kids were not selected, so don't feel alone!

Reply #191065 | Report this post


Giraffe 35  
Years ago

The nationals website has the dates & locations listed already for 2009.

The u-18 nationals are being held in Adelaide, but have they got the month wrong on the website. They've it listed as April, i would've thought July?

Can anyone clarify, Hoop Addict - you still trawling around?

Reply #191071 | Report this post


mmm  
Years ago

Nope its in April next year. Some kids will only get a solid 16 weeks off from state. I wonder if any thought is being given around the issues surrounding this???

A good topic would be what will clubs/SASI/State coaches do with the kids likely to play in nationals this yr AND next. For mine I think some guidance should be developed coordinated with clubs and SASI to suggest to parents that the kids get a solid 4-6 week break from basketball and coordinate this with SASI/club programs to ensure that the kids have no compulsory basketball over that time.

I am all for the current workload of elite players but everyone needs a good break at some stage over the 12 month cycle.

Reply #191072 | Report this post


Hoop Addict  
Years ago

Yep, April... due to the U17 World Champs in July I *think*.

Reply #191096 | Report this post


Victorian  
Years ago

Amanda Jones you foolish lady. There is always one that takes the bait. Yes My kid is not going to nationals but only because he chose to do another sport instead. I think I am probably more aware of other states talents than you are - all be it not on the girls side of things because they are irrelavent and of no interest to most who follow the boys side of the sport. We hope they win the odd game and do well but please no infighting or bickering on this site please. It is good to see that the weaker sex read this site and have an opinion.

Reply #191111 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wow, what an a***
Don't think all guys are like that, because most are not

Reply #191116 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Chivalry is alive and well on this thred, thankyou Victorian.
Please tell me your not as much of a pig as you sound like on these boards? At the risk of sparking some stupid debate about men vs. women, I think that I should remind you and all other men who share your opinion that the womens rights movement happened around 40 years ago now. Referring to women as the 'weaker sex' is obviously some vain attempt at compensating for something that you obviously come up short in...

Reply #191131 | Report this post


legend  
Years ago

Well done victorian - sucking em in again. You should see his wife, absolute stunner and a nicer guy you could not wish to meet. He knows his stuff too.

Reply #191133 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Is his name Ridge Forrester?

Reply #191139 | Report this post


legend  
Years ago

I am a regular on hoops this legend is an imposter, the true legend is known who works for a legal firm. Not interested in defamation, or insulting women,back to the basketball. Watched under 16's boys and girls Metro vs SAC. The girls game was pretty close SAC missed their point guard alot of turnovers but good quality game.The Metro bigs were good and played too good. Not defending SAC boys looked flat due to injury and sickness basically played with 7 and trained two hours earlier that day. No excuses well done metro boys.

Reply #191140 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Is he Brooke Logan's brother the laywer?

Reply #191142 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

In SA I think the stronger sex is female basketballers. Just looking at the numbers over the past few years of those invited to AIS.

Reply #191144 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Im glad your not defending SAC legend because the metro boys had swum the English Channel, fought 8 rounds of boxing, divided the Red Sea and photographed Victorian and Hillbilly dating before their game wheras the point guard for the metro girls was declared the winner of their fight after Victorian's son was unable to continue after suffering a run in his panty hose.

Reply #191146 | Report this post


Amanda Jones  
Years ago

Victorian still laughing and good to know that you know more then me about everything apart from girls! What a surprise who would have thunk it? Shame about your son not making it glad he had a fall back sport!

Reply #191173 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

191144

And who is the Head Coach of the AIS? Mr SAC Himself Dean Kingsman. Just wonder if he wasn't there would the female representation be the same, I don't think so.

Reply #191178 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sadly #178 that is too true and the the nepotism shows no sign of abating

Reply #191192 | Report this post


pasadena 46  
Years ago

#178 - your girl wasn't good enough for a spot then huh?

Reply #191196 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(#191196) Yours was then?

Reply #191237 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The quality of girls overlooked but getting picked up by US colleges suggest quite a few people think he got/gets it wrong.

Reply #191247 | Report this post


Wayville 33  
Years ago

Just because players go to college, doesn't mean that they should go to the AIS.

The AIS is about building world groups and producing National players.

Reply #191256 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Then Wayville 33 and Pasasdena 46 that's even more reason to get it right and way less subjective than its been recently. Rommeo and Mansfield were streets ahead of Ireland

Reply #191264 | Report this post


pussy lover  
Years ago

Victorian really loves amanda jones who is the mother of his labrador called Hoover. Amanda I believe has sucked up to nearly every coach her kid has been involved with.

Good to see a thread that started as discussion on how teams would go at a championship degenerates with peoples insecurities.No wonder bball in this state is where it is.

Reply #191303 | Report this post


pasadena 46  
Years ago

191264 - apples and oranges.

The two metro girls mentioned are in a different 'class' (age group) to the girl mentioned. You'd be best off putting a case forward comparing those two girls to other's in their year that got a ticket to the 'tute.

Reply #191311 | Report this post


Wayville 33  
Years ago

Anon,

But Romeo and Mansfield are not eligible for the same Junior Worlds as Ireland. They had to compete agaisnt Kennedy, Ebzery, Gaze and Hunt.

I love it when people want to talk about things that they don't understand.

Ignorance is truly bliss.

Reply #191327 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

And if they'd been from country they may well have made it.

Reply #191343 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So what was it last year, 3 SAC girls in AIS, while none for SAM. Bit biased seeing as SAM performed better over the tournament and had 2 first years carrying a team of underperforming second years. Im sure they didn't even get a look from Dean.

Reply #191347 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Yep, may come back to bite em! Current gems team not much strength. Tippett however in class of her own.
Noone close to her!

Reply #191392 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

US Colleges having a field day.........if our 1 in command could just take off the blinkers and encourage the rest would be great.

Reply #191393 | Report this post


amanda jones  
Years ago

Pussy Lover - you don't know me (thank god) so what are you on about - are you now subject to the same insecurities that you accuse everyone else of? Not sure I said anything to warrant your tirade as all I tried to do was introduce the topic again. Any who thanks for the effort!

Reply #191400 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The gems need a polish or better still a rethink on the team as several U18 state sides would beat them.

Reply #191402 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The gems need a polish or better still a rethink on the team as several U18 state sides would beat them.

Reply #191403 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I agree #403, with the exeption of the tallest player on the team who clearly has the potential to become seriously good, I dont think that any of the other members look like they are going to make a huge impact on Australia's national team in years to come. But then again, thats what they are at the AIS to do, become higher calibre players... i suppose we will have to wait and see if any of them are real standouts at the nationals, i doubt there will be.

Reply #191470 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Any chance we could talk about U16 or U18 Nationals or should we change topic name to -

AIS, my kid should have got in...

Reply #191479 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Did yours not make it, because cant you see its not that kids didn't get in its more the point that kids get in based on what state team they play for and how much dean likes them. its not the best players that get invited as the gems team clearly shows.

Oh and for your information i dont have kids. AIS should look for the best players with the greatese potential for the team and not those who the selector likes.

Also i must agree that the gems team would be outclassed by quite a few of the state teams

Reply #191505 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Ask some current AIS kids. Not happy, No nurturing.....bitching....crap schooling,,,,,I'd think twice about what your kids heading too!!

Reply #191542 | Report this post


mmm  
Years ago

I assume you are referring to the women only then? I dont know about the womens program but the men's is renowned internationally, more specifically Marty Clarke.

Reply #191545 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Given another link in this forum which talks about Australian women's basketball being ranked 2nd in the world and Australian's men's basketball ranked at I think 8th or 9th, surely in terms of women's basketball the AIS are getting it pretty much right. 9th is also not a bad position either particularly when comparing our relatively small population with other countries.

My child is too young to be considered for AIS and college basketball. But you would have to be pretty damn good to make the AIS - in a country that ranks 2nd for women's basketball on world standards. So even though at 14 she is showing the potential to be really good (and there are many more at 14 who are so much better) - it is possible for her to make college basketball in the US but very unlikely for her to go to the AIS - there are more places at college basketball level than the AIS.

Reply #191589 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#589. I think the criticism of the AIS women's program has more to do with the Kinsman factor and some 'out there' selections of late.
The women's ranking of 2 is excellent but it was built more on Kinsman's predecessor's selections and it will be interesting to see in which direction the world ranking goes over the next 4 or 5 years because the rumour mill has been churning regarding the difficulty of past and current AIS girls to perform when they perceive some are more equal than others.

Mr Kinsman has certainly not done anything to extinquish the criticism of his S A country first selection and will need to produce from an ordinary crop or wear the criticism.

As for selections in general they are so subjective that it always presents problems when assessing the merit or otherwise of those selections which always gives weight to 'rorting'. A clearer, definitive selection process policy would help but not cure it.
Several kids could count themselves unlucky if the Nationals figure prominently in selection. Benchmark performances at some Nationals appear to merit little and it does appear like they wait until a 'chosen one' has a good Nationals.
Such a thing fuels the 'unfair/rorting' camp and selections could be done more transparently by having national standards such as 'posts need to achieve x y and z at the Nationals to get a development camp and so on for each position. Stand outs above and beyond such benchmarks would be obvious and everybody would have both something to work towards or a clear understanding of why they missed out.

Of course there will be casualties, kids who underperform well below their accepted best in this one tournament which is why such criteria should be applied to all their performances and perhaps publicly posted when they get selected.

Im sure there are good reasons why the system operates the way it does. There is a mystique surrounding basketball that begins at U10 and never stops. Every step of the way is shrouded in secrecy
with every one associated with the game keepng things close their chest and only those in the know, know.

Reply #191601 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Totally agree, the next couple years, under the current reign, will show if Aussie girls still a benchmark...........my thoughts........by all means prove me wrong... The predessors have done a great job, time will tell how honest selections have been since.

Reply #191604 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

601,
A whole post without mentioning "super clubs" and "zoning". Congrats!

Reply #191606 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

601 from 589

Very informative. Thank you. So how long has Kinsman been at the AIS? As I said my kid is only 14 so I have a lot to learn. I read a great deal in these posts to assist with my 'education' in basketball. Some of it contains a great deal of bitching and other crap, but 601 I get a sense that you know what you are talking about. Thanks again.

Reply #191613 | Report this post


The Log Lady  
Years ago

601,

Basketball is not athletics where performances can be measured exactly in times or distances. By its very nature as a team sport which has one of the most open-ended physical, mental and technical requirements (research this if you don't know what I mean), it is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum.

Basketball selections are therefore very subjective as that's the only way they can be. There is no mystique or secrecy as you put it, just experienced and qualified people at the level you are talking about, making selections based upon a large number of factors.

Just because you don't understand those decisions, doesn't mean they are wrong. Kinsman (and other selectors) pick the kids that they think are best able to develop into international players. They do this after seeing them at multiple tournaments and national camps over a number of years. If he gets it wrong his job is on the line. He is not going to risk that to choose "buddies". And its not just him, there are a whole range of people who have input into these selections. I am sure that they would love to be able to make everyone shoot 100 foul shots and take the 12 highest scores. It would be much easier, and it would be flat out wrong as well.

What you suggest is not feasible due to the very nature of the sport.

There is a pathway to represent your country. Go to www.basketballsa.com.au and look under High Performance. It's all there. If you still don't understand talk to the people involved. They know what they are doing, hence Australia's high ranking in the 2nd largest sport on the planet.

Reply #191615 | Report this post


589  
Years ago

Log Lady - more info to help me with my basketball education - thank you!

Reply #191622 | Report this post


The Log Lady  
Years ago

It's my pleasure. My log sees all!

Reply #191623 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

Log lady, where is Powdered Toast Man and Muddy Mudskipper?

Reply #191628 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

LogLady,
No baskeball isn't athletics but many of the tenets that govern selection could easily apply to basketball.
If we had reliable stats on district and all games apart from just points, coaches promoting players would not be able to supply information to those who count that don't necessarilly hold up to scrutiny. Some coaches promote their charges over and above others with no basis in fact to support the claims.
The weakness of basketball selections is that there is rarely ever any concrete basis for them and it relies on the subjective opinions of the elite coaches at District/ NITCP/SASI and their ability to remain unaffected by multiple pressure sources.
Omissions/ inclusions at a state level that puzzle reasonable judges are never explained. Kids who have been identified but lose long term form are retained until it becomes a self fullfiling prophecy.
Club politics appear to have a place in selection decisions and there are powerful people in one or two clubs,who once crossed can exile your kids for ever. These are not transparent things and are unknown to the novice basketball parent and player but most old hands could name those figures.
Some clever coaches get rid of players who might challenge their Protégé by whispering in the right ears, 'he/she's a good player but needs to do this and that' planting seeds that flower and then promote player X. Some influential parents also are experts in this form of marketing and those in power are not immune to it.

Hypothetically, who would a country/district coach promote, his or her country players or the metro ones and would that country coach be tempted to run the country kids more than the metro ones in an attempt to get them up to speed for the Nationals etc? Such a thing is subjective selection at work, some people suggest it happens others would argue that it doesn't. Loglady, I think would say that a coach isn't going to risk losing by playing the wrong players, but it would depend upon what was the coaches prime goal.
No one should be afraid of transparency in selection processes other than those that the process would eliminate.
The simplistic free throws analogy was not what I was advocating.Meeting basic high level criteria (fitness/shooting/skills etc), being independently observed and reported on, seeking all coaches input in the age group of the child and graphing progress over the years should be the foundation then add to it a rating scale for performance based on the strength of the club and number of players atending SASI etc. A team with more SASI players in it should be scaled slightly down because a team with 9 SASI players should outperform a team that has 2 or 3. Very often players can be overlooked or downgraded because they dont play in a platinum team and don't get the opportunity to take part in SASI because of it.
For example, I think Wests went top in 18's women last year with one or two state reps when most thought another was very unlucky to miss out. Shouldn't starstudded, SASI filled teams always be top if selections are right?
You said in your post that he wasn't going to risk choosing his 'Buddies'. Haven't you ever employed a mate's relative, put them into the mix and its all worked out or they havent stuffed up too bad?
At the heart of it is my belief that when so few decide the future of so many subjectivity alone is not good enough and people like you with the basketball brains and background need to come up with something better.

Reply #191655 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

My god its actually sad that parents have to speak such shit, when there kids are just trying to have some fun and do their best

Reply #191656 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ohh, ALMOST two posts without bleating about country players...

Next time I guess.

Reply #191718 | Report this post


ankles  
Years ago

I'm not from SA but all the arguments are familiar to me. To take these statements at face value, I should pull my 14 year old from the State team and not bother to go to Perth because clearly I don't know these mystical people who make the decisions, so she'll be wasting her time having any basketball ambitions.

But having been involved in the sport for many years, and more recently as a coach involved with State teams, I can say some of your cynicism needs to be checked. My daughter missed the State team last year and I didn't agree with her non-selection (being as objective as I could). Other girls missed out this year and I didn't agree with their omission either. Every year, the coach in question gets second-guessed by people with very little insight into the process or his game-plan. Yet at the end of the day, he takes the team away, he puts together the game plan and he wears the bouquets or brickbats based on the team's results. This is the lot of the coach.

When I pick a team, I look at what a player can do for that team - not what they can do, how many points they score or any other statistically objective measure. Were I to rely on objective measures only I would die watching the selection trials as everybody tried to 'get theirs' and then spend the season managing egos and playing time to try and keep everybody happy.

The selection process for Institute players is exhaustive (my daughter is on the very bottom rungs of this ladder in the ITC program). They are seen at camps, they are seen at tournaments, they are seen locally, in individual workouts and ultimately at national development camps and on national teams - all before being picked for the Institute. Its not based on one tournament. Its not based on absolute ability. There are fantastic U16 players who will never play at an elite level as adults - that is the nature of development. The AIS makes mistakes, nearly every team has players they regret picking. It happens. Probably the best predictor of a junior's success is not what teams they get picked for, but how they respond when they miss out on a team.



Reply #191802 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I noticed SA Metro play NZ in their first game.Does anybody know how competitive NZ are?

Reply #192268 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

pretty weak if anything like previous years, not top 6

Reply #192385 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

As the comp starts today all I can say is go Vic Metro - we are looking for a gold rush in Ballarat! Oh no not again! Whoohooo

Reply #192918 | Report this post


MR. E  
Years ago

Read lots of entries over recent weeks re selection of teams for these comps.I did not realise there were so many intelligent basketball supporters with much to offer B/B in this state. Let us support the kids. Good luck to the girls and boys flying to Perth today. It will be interesting to see how the coaches manage the injured players over the week and how much court time the first year girls get. Should the team perform poorly, one would hope the coach does the honorable thing and "falls on his sword". How a coach can be appointed when he doesn't even coach that age group is an interesting appontment. Do the state proud girls. Mr.E.

Reply #193500 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

...and if they do okay.....will you fall on your sword...... go girls....do yourselves proud....

Reply #193596 | Report this post


MR. E  
Years ago

I'll go one step further. I will not make any further postings on this site and congratulate them on their success.

Reply #193607 | Report this post




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