An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 1:24 pm, Sat 20 Sep 2014 | Posts: 515,452 | Last 7 days: 1,036

Dunk Basketball Uniforms  

Advertising spot currently available.
Minimum three month period (1.5+ million page views, 92% Australian).
Email isaac@triplezero.com.au for rates and options.

Important notice: In recent weeks, multiple IP addresses have been handed over to lawyers regarding potentially defamatory posts on Hoops. Please remember that you are responsible for what you post and that if requested by a lawyer to provide identifying information, I will comply.

Anonymous
Two years ago

#30357

Is the playoff dream over?

Sorry to be either stating the obvious or giving up too soon, (im thinking im doing one of these things but cant decide which one)

But realistically thinking, i just cant really see us making the playoffs this season.

So what to do

I reckon we could put the club back into the playoffs/title contention with 3 simple moves

1. Change coaches - many good candidates out there with pros and cons, just someone with nbl playoff experience would be good,

2. Weigh - either give him a reduced contract and role, ie he becomes Creeks back up and is paid accordingly, or replace him. depending on how many import spots we have left, but we could theoretically either replace him with a cheap import off the bench (Dorsey?) or a cheaper aussie and spend a bit more on one of the imports.

3. Gibson, preferably retain, but if we cant keep him and he hasnt re-signed by the end of the season, go after Madgen with everything, if we cant get him get a stud import, if i had the choice between Gibson and Madgen for the sg role id take Madgen as he is the better shooter/scorer, but happy with Gibson as a combo guard, i see him as a pg more than a sg though which has its issues. So im sliding Gibson back to pg and having a import as starting sg.

Basically the rest of the roster is signed for next season or is the 9th and 10th spots so not overly critical to the team at worse give them to Warbout and Daly.

That would give us say

C Schenscher/Warbout

PF Johnson/Petrie

SF Creek/Dorsey (or Weigh on a cheaper deal)

SG import - if Christopherson turns out ok keep him or get the best we can with the money available/Daly or young sg

PG Gibson/Cadee

**if we lose gibson and can get Madgen then obviously get a import pg to split mins with Cadee instead of the import sg

****if we lose Gibson and cant get Madgen, get a stud import sg (or combo guard Ervin mould) and Cadee or Dorsey would have to start.

I'm not anti Weigh and dont blame him for the season or his role, he doesnt chose his court time and lack of plays to set up open shots for him, making him ineffective, but simply replacing him or reducing his role as i think Creek is better, right now and a better prospect (assuming his return from injury goes well) and want to see Creek played for 30 mins a game as soon as he is healthy enough to do so.

That to me should be a playoff team, especially with a new proven coach. Basically the only main change i have made is bought in Dorsey for Weigh (or reduced Weighs role) and re-jigged the rotations, with young SA guys taking over the 9th and 10th spots, this could basically be done now, so i guess many would argue to keep the roster identical and just simply change coach, maybe my 3 steps should just stop at 1, which could also be done now, which is why the fans are sooo frustrated as we can see the rosters potential but is under performing greatly.

These next couple of seasons with the talent we have assembled we should be making playoffs and fighting for titles not missing playoffs or just scraping in at best.

Report this topic


 

Anonymous
Two years ago
03:04 29 Dec 12

Reply #394537

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Dorsey is so shit.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
10:33 29 Dec 12

Reply #394587

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Under different coaches these players' output would be different ( and were) hence not sure if you can really suggest player changes based on recent performance.


Report this post



Pure Silk
Two years ago
10:34 29 Dec 12

Reply #394588

re: Is the playoff dream over?

I think Gibbo is a MUST retain . Playing fantastic bball this season and plays good D. Depending on Johnson salary i would be if he stays or goes. Good shooter but frustrates me with ball hogging and little D .


Report this post



Pure Silk
Two years ago
10:35 29 Dec 12

Reply #394589

re: Is the playoff dream over?

FWIW i think we have the team that coul get on a massive roll. Hell we need to !


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
12:34 29 Dec 12

Reply #394628

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Yes, Gibson is a must. Would be insane to move him on voluntarily.


Report this post



Marcus Camby
Two years ago
12:48 29 Dec 12

Reply #394635

re: Is the playoff dream over?

I don't think the Playoff dream is over at all....we just have to believe in the team and support them, players AND coaches.


Report this post



Gruff
Two years ago
13:57 29 Dec 12

Reply #394656

re: Is the playoff dream over?

You're dreaming Marcus. It IS over. Belief in something does not make it real.

With Clarke at the helm we will never win enough games to make the finals. He has consistently shown that he doesn't have to knowledge to close out games and use his players to their strengths.


Report this post



Marcus Camby
Two years ago
16:48 29 Dec 12

Reply #394687

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Gruff...

If belief doesn't lift the players, getting boo'ed by your own fans @ home certainly won't either.

Fans just need to stand in unison say they still believe in and trust the club...Top to bottom.


Report this post



Beantown
Two years ago
17:07 29 Dec 12

Reply #394692

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Yeah, keep Gibbo if we can. He's good, he just can't carry our woeful backcourt. Put a good player next to him and we will have a great backcourt.

The players we have are all fine, we just need that one guy who has the quickness and ball-handling to break down good defence and create for others.

Hopefully this Christopherson kid can do this and we might still have a chance at the playoffs. But I have to agree with other comments that grabbing a tried NBL player like Homicide would have been smarter.


Report this post



hog75
Two years ago
17:20 29 Dec 12

Reply #394693

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Marcus Camby, at first your blind love for Marty was kind of amusing in a childish way, but now it's just getting stupid.

Level with us here...you are Mark Radford aren't you? He's the only guy I know left in SA who still has love for Marty.


Report this post



Marcus Camby
Two years ago
17:28 29 Dec 12

Reply #394694

re: Is the playoff dream over?

I was posting here to plead against 'Sack Marty' threads DURING the game.

Unless Mark had a 3G tablet or smart phone on him, I cannot be him.

Alas, I was too late to stave off 'Sack Marty' threads as there was already one BEFORE the game finished which I thought was uncalled for (even more uncalled for than a 'Sack Marty' thread after the game).


Report this post



Marcus Camby
Two years ago
17:30 29 Dec 12

Reply #394695

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Hog75...also Marty has the support of all the players as well.

That must mean something, musn't it?

If it were a Dwama / Van Gundy or D-Will / Avery Johnson scenario...then yes, I would declare that the situation was untenable.


Report this post



hog75
Two years ago
18:22 29 Dec 12

Reply #394711

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Relax champ, it was a joke. Of course you're not Mark, although for all the good he does, he may as well be posting here during the game.

Please don't embarrass yourself any further though by declaring ever again that Marty has the support of all the players. FACT: that may be the public face of it, but that's all, and yes I do know.

Think about it - these are not D-Will salaries we're talking here. None of the players is stupid enough to come out publicly and declare they want the coach sacked. These guys can't afford to jeopardise their careers like that.

I'm really confused - you write like an adult, yet some of your opinions are so embarrassingly naive that you surely can't be.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
18:41 29 Dec 12

Reply #394719

re: Is the playoff dream over?

I'm convinced that Marcus is more anti-Clarke than anyone else on this forum and is merely posting to fire up even more anti-Clarke sentiment.

Either way Marcus has way more passion and emotion than Clarke himself.

Watching Clarke just stand there on the sideline all confused in last quarters is actually painful. It is deer in head light stuff. Worse body language than DJ. I actually feel sorry for him.

Also, has anyone noticed that when we are winning that Radford is pacing the sidelines and running around like he is the head coach but when we are losing it's like the ranga isn't even there.

Either way, keep up firing us up Marcus. There would only be 30 anti Clarke posts as opposed to 300 if it weren't for your efforts.


Report this post



Marcus Camby
Two years ago
21:27 29 Dec 12

Reply #394743

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Anon'719...

What causes more Sack Marty discussion, my observation or 'Sack Marty' threads?


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
22:32 29 Dec 12

Reply #394749

re: Is the playoff dream over?

You by adding fuel to the fire.

Don't get me wrong, it is entertaining and you are entitled to your opinion (assuming you are not a troll).

It's a bit like going on a Chicago Bulls forum and arguing that MJ is not the GOAT and that Bill Laimbeer was indeed the better player.


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
23:11 29 Dec 12

Reply #394756

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Why do people keep mentioning Williams? Has a job AFAIK and not going to play for the money available. Also, given Petrie's back, the import needs to be SG/SF or Weigh has to play 35+ MPG.

Ideally, start Gibson at PG, import at SG. Then Cadee in, Gibson to SG, import spells Weigh at SF, etc.


Report this post



MACDUB
Two years ago
23:43 29 Dec 12

Reply #394761

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Gibson is a really nice player. You wouldn't get rid of him. He is a defensive beast.


Personally though, and this is just my opinion, I think the idea of an Import PG/Madgen combination is a lot more fearsome than the Gibson/Cadee combination.

The way I see it, a lot of teams are really able to target Cadee..They pressure him and all he seems to do is just pass around the perimeter. Also, they are aware that he doesn't do much in terms of creating shots etc. that they don't even need to be worried about him.

Last night, he was guarded by Corletto, Bruton and Webster -- 3 defenders who, let's be honest, are really sub-par in terms of lateral quickness. Still, I didn't see Cadee do anything (1/3 FG, 2 points).


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
01:02 30 Dec 12

Reply #394764

re: Is the playoff dream over?

To be fair, import plus Madgen is going to cost more too.

My issue with Cadee is that he brings up the ball, then usually doesn't set anything up; it's quickly moved on. Gibson is the one dishing the assists. So, what's his purpose?

For all the Gibson-not-a-PG talk, he started at PG on championship teams at South and Brisbane, right?


Report this post



JA
Two years ago
01:42 30 Dec 12

Reply #394768

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Yea next season i want the starting back court to be an import with either Gibson or Madgen, (or both Gibson and Madgen) even if its a cheap import like Gilchrist or Dorsey,

I love Gibson and hope they lock him in before free agency even begins, but would also love Madgen. If given the choice id also take Madgen over Gibson, especially if Gibson looks likely (or even half a risk) to move on anyway and Madgen is ready to comit.

If you let go say Weigh and Crosswell could you fit in Madgen and min salary import to replace them? That way you get both Madgen and Gibson which is the ideal.

How good would a team of (below) be?

Schenscher/Vasiljevic (or who ever)
Johnson/Petrie
Creek/Min salary import (Dorsey)
Madgen/Min salary import (Farley)
Gibson/Cadee

(if points cap is an issue go with one import)

This years roster is good but i reckon that roster is even better.

However from the way Madgen talks in interviews its probably unlikely we will get him to leave the kings, so its probably a non issue as far as chosing between Madgen and Gibson if you cant fit both in.

Even if we cant get Madgen id like us to get a good import scorer, I'd go for Ervin (play him as sg) to start in the backcourt with Gibson, and get either Weigh or another aussie (?Brad Hill) to back up sf with what salary/points are left over.

I just dont think Cadee is ready to start in the NBL, to me he is currently a 15-20 min a game back up pg, cant always get minutes based on potential, Creek was better and was playing less,so why should Cadee?

So if we cant get Madgen and keep Gibson, id like to see a line up of'

C Schenscher/Vasiljevic (or who ever we can fit in)

PF Johnson/Petrie

SF Creek/?Weigh (on a cheaper deal) or Hill or whoever we can fit in

SG Import scorer (a combo guard like Ervin)/min salary cheap import athletic sg/sf like Dorsey

PG Gibson/Cadee

To me thats also better than this years team, with just a few tweaks, and fairly realistic with salary/points caps

but as said by many the roster isnt really the issue, but i would make minor tweaks as i have listed above, but the first move should be change coach.

I think many would be happy to keep the exact same roster with a new coach, and most of us hope the coach change happens before the end of this season.

As far as coach, not really sure never been a huge fan of Joyce or Wright, would take either right now, but not sure if i want them for the medium/long term so if going for an nbl experienced coach leaves guys like Smyth, Westover, Gleeson, Stacker,Molloy to me all have many pros and cons, ill go for Molloy, Stacker or Gleeson, maybe a combo of 2 of those guys if that can be done.

Stacker and Molloy are still involved in high level coaching since leaving NBL and Gleeson coached NBL last season, dont think Smyth has done too much high level coaching since leaving the 36ers, as much as i was a fan of his, and not sure what Westover has been upto, but not the biggest fan of his so wouldnt personally pick him.


Report this post



JA
Two years ago
01:47 30 Dec 12

Reply #394769

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Who would others pick as next coach and potential rosters for next season?


Report this post



MACDUB
Two years ago
10:40 30 Dec 12

Reply #394808

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Even Retaining Gibson and going out and getting Madgen or an Import SG is an upgrade.

Cadee is not up to NBL starter standard IMO, but he does have a future ahead of him.


Report this post



Jeff
Two years ago
11:04 30 Dec 12

Reply #394815

re: Is the playoff dream over?

I don't see Madgen switching from a great club, to the worst club in the league anytime soon.


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
12:22 30 Dec 12

Reply #394840

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Madgen has said he'd like to be a one-club player.

I'd favour Gibson over him just because point guards are hard to come by.


Report this post



Mystro
Two years ago
12:32 30 Dec 12

Reply #394843

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Cadee is def worth keeping as he will only get better.


Report this post



Bucketman
Two years ago
14:33 30 Dec 12

Reply #394875

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Marcus camby, I agree that belief is a massive part of sport and sport psychology. But mate, if you can't see that the players are not playing for their coach we must be watching different games. There comes a point, especially when winning is a priority when you look at the problem, consider all solutions and ask yourself "am I the only one who can't see what everyone else is talking about?" At this stage I think it's pretty safe to call that we won't be playing play offs. This is very disappointing and I don't say it lightly. But I think we are buggered.


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
15:10 30 Dec 12

Reply #394879

re: Is the playoff dream over?

I think Clarke has buy-in from the players, he's just selling them the wrong thing.


Report this post



Camel 31
Two years ago
15:26 30 Dec 12

Reply #394885

re: Is the playoff dream over?

While only yesterday ; 'If 36ers don't win on New years eve , then 2013 will be an unlucky year for the coach , marty clarke. ' story on Ch2 TV news .


Report this post



Marcus Camby
Two years ago
15:50 30 Dec 12

Reply #394891

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Guys... you are all speculating about who to bring in and who to give the @ss, and the season is one week after the ALL-STAR break ffs.

And you wonder why the players don't play with fire and passion?

They're probably thinking I'm playing for myself and my contract when they see and hear talk like this.

Not even in the Ozhoops TOWNSVILLE thread do they have this (except for Ben Allen).

Bucketman...Do I believe the playaz are playing for their coach?

I believe they are trying to under VERY difficult circumstances, however it falls over when :

1) They have little confidence that the ball will get to them at the right time / place from other players.

2) They have little confidence that they will get help on D.

3) Their fans want them gone by half way through the season.


Report this post



paul
Two years ago
15:54 30 Dec 12

Reply #394894

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Im pretty sure Madgen is contracted next year.

I think Adelaide will get close to the playoffs this year, Sydney and Wollongong will come back to the pack a bit, but it will take a huge effort to pass them with the headstart they have.

The 36ers players I have spoken to have huge belief in what they are doing, which is producing great basketball in patches, so if Christopherson can be the contributor Massingale wasnt the team will pick up quite a few wins in the second half.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
15:55 30 Dec 12

Reply #394895

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Defs.


Report this post



JA
Two years ago
16:07 30 Dec 12

Reply #394909

re: Is the playoff dream over?

I hope so, id love nothing more to see the team get on a run and make the playoffs, just not all that confident it will happen.


Report this post



Pure Silk
Two years ago
16:48 30 Dec 12

Reply #394947

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Cant see Madgen coming back. Read an article that he said he felt he owed Sydney by taking him on when no one else did and loves it there and the coach.


Report this post



Marcus Camby
Two years ago
16:59 30 Dec 12

Reply #394954

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Madge must love the Heal has the confidence in him to draw plays for him.

He won't repay that by leaving.


Report this post



Beantown
Two years ago
17:15 30 Dec 12

Reply #394965

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Just like Newley and Ingles, the Sixers have probably missed the boat on Madgen too.

I'd love to know why we didn't sign him. I could see he was going to be good a few games into his first season with the Kings.

Did the Sixers just not rate him, or did he want more money than they thought he was worth at the time?


Report this post



Pure Silk
Two years ago
10:01 31 Dec 12

Reply #395087

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Madgen was paid $10,000 in his 1st year at the Kings and had to rely on handouts from alot of people so he has done extremely well !


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
10:50 31 Dec 12

Reply #395089

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Beantown, was already committed to Hill for that year (play similar positions) and didn't really outplay him in the ABL. His numbers there weren't outstanding. Kings didn't have him in their main rotation either initially. Looks bad now, but potentially understandable at the time.

Newley and Ingles however, before they were signed, were a touch more prodigious. Newley especially was considered the next big thing. Ingles exploded on debut, etc.


Report this post



BJF
Two years ago
11:13 31 Dec 12

Reply #395091

re: Is the playoff dream over?

Hill , Ng and Herbert plus imports had his role covered


Report this post





 

Reply to this topic

Name Email

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Vodka 79

Title
Rules: You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players.
Message

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.
 


Aussie Basketball Travellers

Recent Posts

.
.