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Isaac
Last year

#30527

Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Tough blow for the Hawks with their starting backcourt both going down to ACL injuries in the same game, and now set to miss the remainder of the season.

Massingale is said to be the replacement for Hurdle, but replacing Rhys Martin might be a little harder.

Have to feel for Wollongong.

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alexkrad
Last year
10:12 15 Jan 13

Reply #398838

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

That's going to be it for the Hawks this season.

Melbourne or Townsville to sneak into the top 4?


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...
Last year
10:24 15 Jan 13

Reply #398844

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Hate when players get injured! All the best to them both! Just sad that realy, only perth or nz can win the title! Fitting that both still deserve to be there 2!


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Anonymous
Last year
10:25 15 Jan 13

Reply #398845

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

With martin gone as well they'll need a decent replacement to stay in the top 4. I'd say Braswell or Massingale.


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Tiger Watcher
Last year
10:43 15 Jan 13

Reply #398850

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

CJ will get the nod for the rest of the season...he is cheap and only a flight away plus he is a good player off the ball as Deleon can run the point.

Also heard they have put together list of SEABL PG's to back up Deleon.


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Mystro
Last year
10:51 15 Jan 13

Reply #398855

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Lindsay Tait would be an ok back up and has played for them before?


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Anonymous
Last year
10:57 15 Jan 13

Reply #398856

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Feel sorry for Rhys and Lance, both had great seasons to date, always hate to see players go down, good luck with the recovery guys and hope to see you both back in action next year.

Good opportunity for CJ, Geordie will have to give him plenty of minutes and i reckon he can average atleast 10ppg at a decent clip, which is basically Hurdles numbers, if CJ naturalises and fits in well this could be a real good opportunuty for him to play a few years up in the Gong under a great coach.

I hope CJ doesnt kill us when we play the Hawks, im sure he will be keen to, as he is better than SC imo.

Would love to see Tait or Gleeson get a go at back up pg, Tait is definatly NBL standard imo, and havent seen enough of Gleeson but his numbers in other leagues look decent enough for a NBL back up.


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Isaac
Last year
10:59 15 Jan 13

Reply #398857

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

I think burning the import spot on Massingale could be wasteful. Replacing Martin is the pressing need and keeping an import spot open to do that would enable some flexibility. PGs are absolutely crucial and Martin is vital to that team.

If (big if) Massingale or Christopherson-level imports can't manage much more than they have, then a Drew Williamson or similar can do that. Import spot and money could be used for anyone like a Chris Warren, John Gilchrist, etc that we've seen before in Adelaide. Or Gordie isn't against gambling on his import-picking skills.

I think the Massingale option made more sense when Hurdle was only set to miss a few games.


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KingJames
Last year
11:10 15 Jan 13

Reply #398862

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Isaac, I disagree about Massingale being wasteful. Hawks need a scorer and Massingale gives them that. Most importantly he will be an Australian next year and would be very valuable for them off the bench. Therefore it is a great trial period for them to test him.


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Mystro
Last year
11:15 15 Jan 13

Reply #398866

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

I agree with Isaac that the biggest void to fill is now Rhys Martin although I guess it will give Deleon more minutes but he is not as efficient as Martin has been imo and won't get the others involved.


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anon
Last year
11:17 15 Jan 13

Reply #398867

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Not a trial period still in play-off picture. If they dont bring in a top quality replacement it means they have given up on season.CJ solid back-up but not enough without Rhys.


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DB5
Last year
11:20 15 Jan 13

Reply #398869

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Starting backcourt for my FNBL team shit. Martin and Hurdle.


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Aussiebballer
Last year
11:25 15 Jan 13

Reply #398871

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Is Massingale getting naturalised?

I seem to remember it being mentioned when he was fired.

If they need another shooter, Herbert looked in good fitness when I saw him at a game a couple of weeks back.

Or maybe the Sixers can trade them Crosswell? :)
Crosswell for Forman ;)


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Tiger Watcher
Last year
11:31 15 Jan 13

Reply #398873

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Herbert has a good job so i don't think they have the cash to throw around...pretty sure Hurdle wasn't on big dollars so it needs to be a cheap option with CJ being the obvious choice...most solid imports are playing elsewhere at the moment so it makes i tough to pick one who will take a few weeks adjusting to the league.

CJ should be ready to go within a week after some training with the Hawks... as he already knows the league/culture.


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fyi
Last year
11:34 15 Jan 13

Reply #398874

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Have been told that Massingale was of the belief he was getting naturalised but was only actually up for permanent residency. If you cant get that straight then wow just wow.


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Mick
Last year
11:41 15 Jan 13

Reply #398875

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Townsville blowing that practically unloseable Breakers game at home keeps getting worse...


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Mystro
Last year
11:45 15 Jan 13

Reply #398876

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Ron Dorsey & Lindsay Tait would be my picks to keep the Hawks in the playoff picture without blowing the bank.


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Spursfan
Last year
11:49 15 Jan 13

Reply #398878

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Mick, you should be ecstatic. A win against them this weekend means they are right back in the playoff picture


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Isaac
Last year
12:05 15 Jan 13

Reply #398881

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Isaac, I disagree about Massingale being wasteful. Hawks need a scorer and Massingale gives them that.
Who distributes then? Deleon the iso guy?

Martin and Hurdle are second and third behind Forman on the Hawks' MPG list. Crucial players.

Martin is the bigger loss, IMO, and as such, I'd be reserving the flexibility of the import position in replacing that role.

Any team could trial Massingale in the pre-season or at trainings if they want.


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clarky
Last year
12:18 15 Jan 13

Reply #398886

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

I tend to agree with Isaac here, Rhys Martin is a HUGE loss for them, and with Deleon as their only real ball carrier they lack a solid distributor to get others involved.

If I was the Hawks I would be tempted to look at someone like a John Gilchrist (played NBL before and can distribute), or trust Gordie to make the call on a fresh import PG and hope for another Ervin/McKee type player.

The contributions of Hurdle (11.3 pts, 2.6 rebs, 1.4 asts) can easily be replaced by a local player (Williamson, Ng) or by giving more responsibility to Demos, and finding a young player to come off the bench behind him.


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x
Last year
12:23 15 Jan 13

Reply #398888

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Agree that they need to focus on replacing Martin with a gun import. Coenraad and Demos replace Hurdle.


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Mick
Last year
12:36 15 Jan 13

Reply #398891

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Needs to be someone that makes the "right" pass rather than the "assist" pass; whether it counts for a dime, or a hockey assist, or neither. Hawks strength is their ball movement and making that "extra" pass every time.

Deleon running the show from start to finish would hamper that somewhat, but still no reason why they can't make the playoffs with Deleon as the starting PG. They just won't win it all.


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Anonymous
Last year
12:37 15 Jan 13

Reply #398892

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Herbert or Masunda.


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Mick
Last year
12:40 15 Jan 13

Reply #398894

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Also: would hiring an import PG to start in front of Deleon be almost unprecedented in this league? ie. Two import PGs?


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skud
Last year
12:45 15 Jan 13

Reply #398896

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Pity CJ isn't naturalised he would be a perfect fit for Hurdle and bring in an Import PG.

Martin has really re-created himself the last 2 seasons I hope this injury doesn't put him behind the ball again.


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KingJames
Last year
12:45 15 Jan 13

Reply #398897

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

"Who distributes then? Deleon the iso guy?"

I think bringing an Australian point guard from the local league will be sufficient to back up Deleon.

They are still good enough to make the playoffs with Massingale and an Australian backup point guard IMO.

Obviously the coach will need to talk to Deleon about his role to distribute the ball more.


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Anonymous
Last year
12:56 15 Jan 13

Reply #398900

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Martin being out could be good for Deleon as well because he'll have more minutes and it'll boost his confidence back up again.


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Anonymous
Last year
13:01 15 Jan 13

Reply #398904

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Gill maybe? Good compliment to Deleon and a leader. Unsigned right now


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BobbyO
Last year
13:16 15 Jan 13

Reply #398905

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

What about Z.Delaney? HAHA


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KingJames
Last year
13:24 15 Jan 13

Reply #398906

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Gill would be great but they don't have the money for him.


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Howto
Last year
13:24 15 Jan 13

Reply #398907

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

If Deleon took the blinkers off, Hawks have plenty of fire power from the outside even if he is the 'ISO guy'. He manages to get the hoop but then throws up a circus shot. Although if Geordie cant get this guy to play the way thats needed the Hawks are in massive hole with the controlled offense of Martin. Massingale becomes obsolete if Deleon doesnt distribute (if they choose to go that way).


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Tiger Watcher
Last year
13:39 15 Jan 13

Reply #398909

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

A number of SEABL PG's could cover behind Deleon.

Got to remember that $$$ are very limited for the other import spot.

A few local names spring to mind (Sorry if i miss anyone)

Luke Cooper
Pro: League Expereince - Can give you a solid 5-10 behind Deleon - Would fit budget
Con: Size - At time looked out of his depth at sydney

Shane Macdonald
Pro: Best PG outside of NBL in the country - League expereince
Con: Got a good job so the $$$ might not be able to make it worth while

Tiri Masunda
Pro: Young and keen for a chance.
Con: Not really ready...relies on being quicker at SEABL level which he won't be in NBL

Lindsay Tait
Pro: League Expereince - Very solid to hold down 10 mins - Not sure if he is still looking for a full time gig - Good Locker room guy
Con: Is he is shape? having last played in NZBL




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Isaac
Last year
14:08 15 Jan 13

Reply #398927

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Obviously the coach will need to talk to Deleon about his role to distribute the ball more.
Not speaking from any inside knowledge, but just watching the games and some Deleon tweets in the pre-season, I'd say that the coach has already done that.

Hawks have (well, had) five guys hitting the three at 35%+. Coenraad is at 33%. Deleon has attempted 64 threes, at 22% or so. He is 8th in the team for FG% but has attempted the most shots. He could average 5-6 APG if he better picked when to take it to the rack and when to defer to the guys on the perimeter.

Rhys was also second in team scoring.

In two injuries, they've lost 20+ PPG and the two smart/team guards in the side. I don't think Massingale and random-available-local will cover for them outside of best case scenario for both.

Deleon could lift to 17 PPG but with fewer quality options to draw defenders, what are the chances it's at a high percentage?

Sounds like I'm hating on him, but I was keen for them to sign Deleon after last year with the Blaze and I think he's a very capable foil for the rest of the (structured) team; has a superb handle, good FT%, doesn't give up, etc. Take out two key players from the Hawks' structure though and it's a bit worrying. That 'foil' element becomes a bigger and riskier part.

---

I think Lindsay Tait's game has a few similarities to Deleon's actually. As I've said, I'd forget the reliance on a second-tier local PG, use Rhys' money for an import PG, and then get whatever SG is available. If Massingale was naturalised, that'd be great, but doesn't seem as though he is.


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paul
Last year
14:25 15 Jan 13

Reply #398932

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

I suspect the Hawks dont have the money to get a gun import. They live on a tight budget.


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Mick
Last year
15:05 15 Jan 13

Reply #398940

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

How much do they have to spend with the insurance on both contracts?

I wouldn't imagine either guy would be on overly great money.


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Marcus Camby
Last year
15:47 15 Jan 13

Reply #398961

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

I have to second Zac Delaney.

The Hobbit has finished filming so I'm sure he's good to go.


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Tiger Watcher
Last year
16:17 15 Jan 13

Reply #398963

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Not alot of Budget import PG's around....most budget PG that were any good where snapped up fresh out of college so unless Gordie has one up his sleeve or a good PG has just been cut from Europe they might just have to go local.

Its a tough spot to be in but with finals on the line i think the CJ route and local back up is the safe option at this stage.

Unless they try and grab a Jazzmar Ferguson...but i think budget will be the biggest deciding factor.


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fyi
Last year
16:24 15 Jan 13

Reply #398967

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Teams cant insure pro athlete incomes in Australia
Hawks now have to pay for both Martin and Hurdle as well as their replacements. Both injured players would be amongst the more expensive players too.


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clarky
Last year
16:47 15 Jan 13

Reply #398973

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Given that both players are injured and out for the season, would it be right to assume that their salary for the remainder of the season comes off the cap figure and can be spent on replacements?

Obviously this wont be a huge issue for a club like Wollongong who don't spend the full cap, but it is something I have always wondered when it comes to long term injuries/replacement players in the NBL...


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Isaac
Last year
16:52 15 Jan 13

Reply #398977

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

fyi, doubt they were among the more expensive. Never got the impression Hurdle was, given that it was his first pro gig.


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lukn4atitle
Last year
18:21 15 Jan 13

Reply #399001

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

The Hawks will overcome this HURDLE !


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Anonymous
Last year
18:58 15 Jan 13

Reply #399012

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Wasn't Hurdle playing in the D-League before coming here?


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paul
Last year
19:10 15 Jan 13

Reply #399018

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

I think Martin was given a reasonable contract at the end of last season. Not rich by league standards, but decent by Gong standards.


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howto
Last year
20:12 15 Jan 13

Reply #399032

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Deleon does have great handles and take most off the dribble. The fact he seems to have a case of 'small man' syndrome seems to work against him - the puffing the chest out, the 'look at what I can do coach!' antics that seem to go on. He could be one of the best players in the league if he could get himself out of that cancerous 'Starbury' type of player.

If he did include his teammates more it would be a case of one hand washes the other. He gets his teammates open shots (All hawks starters being genuine spot up shooters), from the perimeter and this inturn results in more space for him to operate. Changing his style of play could make him one of the best players in the league.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:17 15 Jan 13

Reply #399043

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

NBL players haven't been covered with insurance for years. Workers comp if they are lucky.


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FM
Last year
23:07 15 Jan 13

Reply #399060

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Shane Mc has played for Gordie before, an easy fit.

Is the 1 Asian import still allowed like the one which was included for the slingers? If so, a philliphino import PG could be a good back up also


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natwhereyouat
Last year
23:18 15 Jan 13

Reply #399061

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Massingale will not be signed by the Hawks.


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Happy Days
Last year
11:31 16 Jan 13

Reply #399136

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

SEABL imports may not be interested due to the cross over of seasons. Clubs dont want there players missing the first part of the season.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:35 16 Jan 13

Reply #399248

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Would Gilchrist be available? he from his blog seems keen to get a gig in Australia, sure it gives them 2 import pgs, but Deleon is more a combo who could be used as more of a scoring sg imo, then id also sign a guy like Lindsay Tait, prob the best available Aus/NZ guard to replace Martin.

Slightly different mix/style of players, but still of similar talent level imo.


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Isaac
Last year
17:39 16 Jan 13

Reply #399250

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Gilchrist is interested but I don't know if the Hawks are?


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Anonymous
Last year
17:57 16 Jan 13

Reply #399252

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

You would hope they are. Could do far worse than Gilchrist, Showron Glover/Donovan Monroe come to mind.


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Anonymous
Last year
18:11 16 Jan 13

Reply #399255

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

exactly, id almost always go for the NBL proven guy, especially if there is a tight budget and the NBL proven guy is willing to come for cheap.

Just imagine how much better the 36ers would be if they had either Williams, Gilchrist, Dorsey(even Farley)(or kept CJ) over SC, all would easily do more than he has


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Isaac
Last year
18:23 16 Jan 13

Reply #399256

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

SC is playing for cheap cheap though. Rock bottom is not going to attract many players. Also, note that no one else is going for those guys either.


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Anonymous
Last year
18:49 16 Jan 13

Reply #399261

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

True, but werent many rumoured to be willing to take the contract SC has? i understand clubs wont chase these guys with top dollar but if taking cheap (min) contracts than its a no brainer imo.

If they all were out of our price range, so be it,

Same with Wollongong they should chase one of these guys instead of risking another Glover type, sure Geordie has a reasonable strike rate, but im guessing there budget to get a replacement will be less than Ervin/McKee were on in there first years,


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Isaac
Last year
18:56 16 Jan 13

Reply #399263

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Other clubs have been offered cheap deals, I'm sure. I think a few of these guys are out of the league for a reason - things that coaches see/know and that fans might not. e.g., team chemistry, cancer, etc.


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Anonymous
Last year
19:01 16 Jan 13

Reply #399264

re: Lance Hurdle to miss remainder of season

Yea true, would you take a gamble on another 'fresh face' import? Geordie picks them fairly well i guess.


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