It's going to be interesting to see if BA want the NBL represented at all. Some fringe Boomer players at the moment.
The three big man (Knight, Johnson, Nevill) will likely miss out due to Australia being stacked in the big man department.
Nevill, Knight, Madgen and Lisch (once naturalised) are all strong contenders, while Gibson knows the ropes so will be a chance. Martin will be in there if Beveridge is coach, and Blanchfield must be in the extended squad given how well he is developing.
The 2013 international season will be fascinating, new coach and a lot of mainstays missing. Some new players will get a real chance to prove themselves.
Think we have listed to many college kids....we need to slowly bring them along rather than just sticking them in deep end.
Delly - Proven at International level so is a walk up
Motum – Yet to play at International level so would like to wait and see him land in a Pro league and prove himself – Not to many young bigs cut it at international level.
Broekhoff – Young still learning…hope he lands a solid Euro or NBL gig….prefer to see him play good pro ball before declaring him for Boomers in 2014
Drmic – NO……plenty of more seasoned guys ahead of him at this stage and he is still to inconsistent at NCAA level let alone Pro/International level..reminds me a lot of Stiendl whom has struggled to adjust to the Pro game at this early stage.
NCAA normally doesn't equal automatic success in International competition and apart from Delly we should be hesitant to throw to many guys in the deep end without a year or two playing pro ball first to continue to develop.
I woudn't be so quick to discount Goulding. His form & improved maturity in the NBL this season shouldnt be overlooked so easy. His 3 point shooting & athleticsm could be well utilised in the Boomers team. I would take Goulding over Madgen, if you watch Sydney games closely a lot of their offensive sets are specifically run & designed for Madgen. This wouldnt happen with the Boomers & Goulding's offensive flair would be better utilised in the Boomers compared to Madgen IMO.
Will be interesting to see who the coach will be!
Its time to invest (minutes) in Dante Exum. He is tracking well above average in a position we need to improve. He has height, can play both guard positions if needed and will be able to defend the taller euro guards and beat them to the hoop with his great first step.
Whoever the coach is they should create an elite squad of 18 straight away to show the depth and let all know they will have to raise their game to be involved.
Mills Dellevadova Exum Greenwood
Ingles Newley Magden
Drmic Barlow Broekhoff
Baynes Andersen Motum Johnson
Bogut Maric Jawai Ogilvy
The other thing to do is continue to give opportunities to players on the raise, who aren't quite there yet or we are stacked in their position, like;
Mitchell Creek (currently injured)
lol @ Goulding having a shot at the Boomers squad. The only instance in which he would even be looked at would be for a 12th man shooting specialist ala Peter Crawford (joke of a selection too, ironically).
Madgen, Gibson, Lische etc would have a better shot at filling that role, and even a non-threat from outside in Damian Martin has more foundation for selection.
Is Patty Mills definitely out for the World Championships? Otherwise, I'm not sure why he isn't on anyone's list.
B1 Lische (hopefully obtains citizenship)
The idea of an International B team is fantastic and would be great to develop the younger players whom are exiting college or under 25 years old in the NBL.
The Avg age of the top FIBA teams is below.
Lithuania - 28.5
Argentinia - 30.75
Spain - 27.66
Greece - 26.41
It is important to note that outside of the USA with its huge talent pool most team have an Avg age of 28.14 - This tells me that you need to develop but that we won't win with lots of young inexpereiced guys..international ball is a phyiscal mans game hence why the US don't send NCAA guys anymore.
Also a number of the names mentioned aren't playing in top conferences and won't even make the tourney so we need to be aware of the level of competition they are playing in compared to Pro Leagues
dont think we should be giving as many opportunities to the younger guys to develop, agree they need to spend time in a pro league before they are thrown into the deep end.
I also like the idea of madgen/goulding, both great players and underatted imo. Both quite physical and in your face players.
Interesting decision from BA if they go with a full-time coach for the Boomers. I dont think any other country has a full time coach, but I may be wrong.
If they go with a full-time coach, should this person be responsible for all the mens teams at the various age levels? Seniors, U19 and U17. This would allow them to identify and work with talent over all the age groups.
Interesting that a few people have Baynes playing as a PF. Not sure that you can make that transition as easily as it seems given that he has played solely as a centre in his four years as a pro. Not sure if that will change now that he's at San Antonio.
If none of the 2012 Olympians play in the 2013 Oceania Champs (which I doubt, I'd say fringe guys like Gibbo and Crawford will put their hands up), then I'd like to see a team like;
Damian Martin, Hugh Greenwood, Ben Madgen, Jason Cadee, Chris Goulding, Matthew Knight, Ryan Broekhoff, Brock Motum, Nathan Jawai, AJ Ogilvy, Luke Nevill and Dante Exum (I figure if you can make a Boomers squad at 15, then you can play a couple of non-qualification games at 17 - let's have a look at the kid)
Might be best to leave out Exum & Simmonds to develop to get ready to play NBA rather than playing games that count for little....unlike a number of the other college/potential recruits, Exum & Simmonds are both currently projected lottery picks so let them stay and develop in the USA...nothing to gain for them playing meaningless games in 2014.
Why is everyone putting Mills in the 1 spot. He doesn't / won't pass the ball and is only interested in his own shot.
Anyone remember Bogut commenting on the Olympics and being very specific that Ingles had been Australia's best, even though Mills was high scorer for the tournament.
This is also most likely the answer to the ongoing question on this site as to why Mills doesn't get more minutes with the Spurs. Check his APG vs Shot attempts and it is way out of kilter. Same complaint when he was in the NBL until he finally got the message.
Dellavadova is the obvious PG. Mills will be the same dwarf 2 man.
Would have been very interested to see how many shots Bogut would have got if he had played the Olympics
@whaleoilbeefhooked You are right about Mills. As it stands right now, Mills is our two-guard and Delly is our point. Brett Brown got this call right, though he probably left it too long to make the decision prior to the games, which may or may not have cost us, its hard to tell.
Having Bogut makes everyone's life easier on offence. I think you'd find Mills would get a lot more spot-up looks (which he hits a high clip) with Bogut drawing double teams.
If Bogut was able to play in London and started alongside Mills, Delly, Ingles and Andersen, we would have gone deeper into the tournament for sure.
Agree but my point was Bogut would probably have ended up with about 4 or 5 shots a game instead of being the focus of the offense. Pretty sure Mills would have simply been more confident to shoot it and there for jack it up non stop.
Not saying he can't play, he obviously is very good at international level but needs to understand his limitations.
I see what you mean. No, I don't think that would have happened, as the offence would have been focused on getting the ball in Bogut as much as possible.
I hear what you are saying about Mills. I have long felt and said that I think he struggles to be 'the man' and the weight of expectation that comes with that. With Bogut as a clear number one option, I think he would flourish, especially with the amount of spot-ups and open looks he would get as a result of the defensive focus on Bogut.
Stop saying Maric! what he did last olympics was simply embarassing! come on, we SURELY can do better then that! Our center position is so stacked yet Maric gets a mention??? Come on People!!!!
Also, lets keep daniel johnson out of the conversation right now. Apart from the occasional scoring outburst he really does nothing and has a SHIT attitude, perhaps put him in a camp... but the team? No way! I wouldnt risk it.
No more Peter Crawford either people! I mean, come on seriously! hes old, he is down on his form, and he is not getting anywhere near the 2014 team so why even say his name?
2013 team vs NZ
Adam Gibson (by a hair)
(have to put thon in, looks like he NEEDS to be pushed into a fiba acreddited team, could lose him to the US)
It may be worth bringing Mills off the bench as a scorer.
Like what Jason Terry or Jamal Crawford do in the NBA.
Make Bogut the focus of the offense early in the game and then bring Mills in as a change of pace scorer.
He can take over when Bogut rests.
Delly seems to be a better PG, in terms of setting up plays and assists.
Also are any of the PF type plays in college good shooters? even 3pt shooters?
IF Bogut actually plays then the PF needs to be a good shooter (like Andersen).
So that they can spread the floor and make it harder to double team Bogut in the post.
Good calls Aussiebballer.
Mills was extremely effective coming off the bench for the Beijing Olympics in 2008. His speed and ability to score quickly were game changers. However, we're not exactly strong at the SG position right now, so if you start Delly at point and have Mills off the bench, then the next point of debate is who starts at SG? Perhaps Ingles could transition to that spot, and free up SF for Broekhoff? It's a good debate to have, for sure.
In terms of college PF's that can shoot, you've just described Brock Motum to a tee. Mid range and 3 balls have been an important part of his game. I personally would like to see Andersen continue through to at least the 2014 Worlds, with Motum backing him up. Two good shooters to play that four spot, hopefully next to Bogut!
Mills took the number of shots he did by design. Not saying he isn't a selfish player (I don't know him personally), but it was the direction the Coach Brown decided to go with.
As for Mills playing at the 1: basketball isn't as one dimensional as it has been in the past with regards to positions. The '1' doesn't always handle the ball and initiate the offence in every structure. Getting hung up over Mills/Delly at 1/2 is wasted energy.
I think Australia really needs to invest in it's core group (i.e. we need 10 quality players, not 30 average players) and add future long term players to the squad, even though they may not play that much in 2014. I would go with the team below and minute suggestions. I assume Dante, Broekhoff and Jawai wouldn't play much.
PG - Mills (30) Dellevadova (10) Exum (0)
SG - Dellevadova (20) Newley (20)
SF - Ingles (30) Barlow (10) Broekhoff (0)
PF - Baynes (25) Andersen (15)
C - Bogut (30) Maric (10) Jawai (0)
Rationale - Mills and Delly split the PG duties. Dante there as 3rd PG to play junk time and for the experience.
Broekhoff goes as the "shooter" and extra wing player. If they want another flat out shooter they might look at dropping Barlow who just doesn't seem to perform at International level. Also could swap Barlow for Worthington for the 10 minutes of play as back-up SF.
I think Baynes and Bogut (if not injured) should be locked in for bigs, but the other spots are a toss up. Motum is good, but might not be ready. Ogilvy is close and Jawai could dominate. Anderson may be past it, but based on last Olympics I would still pick him as a big run who can shoot the 3 ball. Jawai is the insurance policy incase any injuries as he can play either 4 or 5.
Give Maric 1 more crack if Bogut is injured, otherwise drop him. My team:
Andersen Jawai Motum
Give 12th man to another gun young player.
Depth: Ogilvy, Maric, Martin, Wortho, Barlow, Goulding.
Coach: Bevo with Lemanis 2nd in charge.
traread i like your squad. Wortho might have been missed. He is great in the green & gold!
Curtley i also totally agree. Mills & Delly will start backcourt duties & can bring it up & shoot to suit the game & mix up the 1 & 2.
Lemanis should coach with Bevo a close 2nd. Bevo might bring Lisch & my god i love his game!
I love the fact that we have guys like Exum and Simmons coming through the ranks, but remember these kids are still kids and have not yet played senior basketball! Expose them to the Boomers program through camps etc, but I don't think that they are ready for the Boomers first 12 just yet when we have so many other talented senior players to choose from.
Bogut's availability will be an interesting one, as with that of a few other high profile Aussies one may imagine.
I like the look fo a team something liek this if everyone was available:
I like the idea of a B team for Boomers but the Opals will also find that beneficial
Ben Madgen over Chris Goulding... Watch Madgen's eyes, they are so intense and fired up and driven and that's in a silly old Kings uniform. Throw a Boomers uniform on him and he will only blossom.
Thank you everyone for this post as I don't know much of what's happening outside the NBL and I think BA should do a lot more to inform us on our Aussie men and women abroad and how they're going and I hope nbl.tv will show all international matches down the track
With regards to all the talk about an Aussie "B" team...this will become a fact of life with the new qualification system set to be introduced by FIBA for the following Olympics and WC's...we will get to see many more Boomers games on home soil more regularly, and with all the additional games, comes more exposure, but also the need to have a greater pool of players to call upon.
I like the look of your team LC, though it may be short a point guard. I felt we lacked having a true back up point guard in London to spell Delly, especially if Mills is going to play the two spot.
Something BB trialled prior to the Olympics was giving Ingles minutes at point, and I felt it was really effective, but by the time the games came around he had gone away from it. I distintincly remember a line-up of Ingles, Newley, Barlow, Worthington and Baynes playing about four minutes against Greece, and it was very effective. Basically four swingmen and a big. I hope the new coach revisits Ingles at PG to mix things up every now and then. About 4-5 minutes per half just to give us a different look and cause some match-up problems.
So from the Olympic team you've got Bogut, Jawai, Madgen, Broekhoff and Motum to replace Maric, Nielsen, Barlow, Crawford and Gibson.
I think that's pretty fair, but may still lean towards Gibson over Madgen at this stage, purely for his defensive abilities, something Brett Brown did not take advantage of in London. It's a tough call either way.
Vart, you make a good argument :).
Ingles is more effective with the ball in his hands and therefore could split minutes as a ball handling player. I just don't think Gibson or Martin for that matter are the answer long term. To be fair, I don't know if Greenwood or even Exum will be the answer to our ball handling needs down the track...
I hear you about Gibson and Martin LC, I guess it's just the way they are utilised.
The makeup of an international is interesting, right down to those 11th and 12th spot. You need to have guys there to give the team a specific purpose, as they generally won't be part of the general rotation. I think Brett Brown made good decisions in selecting Gibson and Crawford for London. Gibson gave the team a guard who could defend both positions, and Crawford was their as a shooter. He just didn't use them effectively or when required.
I believe Delly will be our starting PG for a long time. He might not be flashy, or 'athletically gifted', but he is damn good player. The offence always flowed better with him on the floor. Sure he has some weaknesses, but what player doesn't at 22 years old, he will only get better with time.
The question then I suppose is do we have a back-up PG on the bench, or do we allow Mills and Ingles to spell the PG spot when Delly takes a breather.
This lot are walk up starts the balance of the postions should be picked on form and development of our younger player between now and then
the 11 & 12 spots on the roster should be given to young player that neeed developing for the future no has beens or want to be's as we have done in the past ie Peter Crawford
Please take Worthington off all lists for goodness sake.....slow, cant jump, cant defend, cant shoot.........GARBAGE.......Take all those 30+ guys off that list.....I read people talking about seasoned players BLAH BLAH BLAH.
I would take any of those college guys coming through mixed with some Euro guys and DEVELOP a team for the next Olympics which means possibly losing some games. If Exum and Simmons are not on that team and playing significant minutes to gain experience through playing, not just practicing then Basketball Australia has lost the plot......Assuming they ever had it.......
2 future Top NBA picks......Exum and Simmons have size and athleticism like this country has NEVER seen.......Skill sets head and shoulders above other guys being named and they FEAR NO BODY!!!!
Just had a look at Broekhoff's college stats and thank the basketball gods because I think we've found someone who can shoot!
This year, as a senior, he is making 2.6 threes per game @ 43%. Its no fluke either, as his junior year he made 1.9 per game @ 39% and 1.8 per game @ 45% as a sophomore!
If we can finally suit up a fit Bogut in 2014, I definitely agree with what Aussieballer was saying about a PF who can stretch the D and give Bogut work on offence.
Andersen probably still fits that role best, but I also like the idea of going smaller and running three rangy SF types to pressure the passing lanes and create mismatches on the offensive end. Ingles, Newley and Broekhoff is the obvious combo, but you could look at guys like Wagstaff and Bose in that mix as well.
I also like the idea of bringing Mills in as a game changer off the bench. Particularly using him in a simple pick and roll offence with Baynes, who is very adept at slipping to the basket for the easy alley oop. Using that combo against opposing bench players could be quite effective and might net us plenty of cheap points.
If we have Bogut, I think you only really need Andersen and Baynes to complete our big man rotation. The fourth guy could be Jawai if he proves he belongs in upcoming training camps, but it could be tough to find him minutes.
I'd also like to see what Khazzouh can do, because he has range out to the three and good hands around the basket. I could see him scoring a lot of easy points with opposing teams focusing their defence on Bogut.
Nice points Beantown.
Broekhoff has to be part of the team for the Worlds. I really believe Brett Brown erred in cutting him from the Olympic squad and going with PC.
You mention a three SF mix, and Brown experimented with this prior to London with Ingles, Newley and Barlow playing together (Ingles as the PG) but he never really utilised it in London which I reckon was a shame. I like the different look Ingles having a couple of spells at PG brings.
The stretch PF you speak of, for mine, will be Motum.
At the end of the day, all of the offence is entirely affected by Bogut's availability. Even Mills will be more effective with the big fellas presence, as he'll get a lot more spot up three's, which he hits at a high clip, instead of trying to create his own shot so much.
The additions of Motum and Broekhoff certainly will go some ways to addressing the poor shooting of recent times.
I still haven't seen Motum play, but you (and others) obviously rate him Vart. How would he compare to Dan Kickert in terms of shooting, athleticism and rebounding?
Looking at his college stats, he is marginally ahead of Kickert in PPG and RPG, but his best 3pt% was .397 with 1 make pg last season, whereas Kickert shot .444 or higher for 3 of his 4 years in college.
I was just looking up Khazzouh's NBL stats and it looks like he doesn't shoot the 3 that well (less than 30%) so that is a limitation in terms of him being a stretch 4. But I still think he shoots well from mid-range and could do well sneaking into the weakside for layups when the D loads up on Bogut. The other advantage is that he rebounds a lot better than Kickert and probably Motum too.
Any thoughts on Khazzouh Vart? Has he got a realistic shot at decent mins for the Boomers?
As for Motum, he has performed better in college at the same stage in comparison to Kickert. Motum has played virtually a lone hand on a team playing in a decent conference and very good teams (Kickert played against on average inferior opposition). Motum can score inside and out whereas Kickert is more a spot up shooter from range rather than a guy that can consistently scorer inside.
I agree that Broekhoff should have gone to the London games ahead of PC. This was an error in hindsight.
Broekhoff should be in the WC team. Motum considered as a stretch 4 alongside Andersen. Andersen's time is nearly up on an international level, but not quite yet for 2014.
Everybody here is a list of players that should not be featured, talked about or mentioned anymore in regards to representing Australia.
Andrew Bogut - can barely walk let alone play.
David Anderson - old
Matt Neilson - old
Mark Worthington - old not good
Damian Martin - old not good
Daniel Kickert - old okay
Adam Gibson - not good
Peter Crawford - not even close
Kevin Lisch - american not good american
Any other current NBL guys - wow the league is terrible let it go.
And are we really talking about bringing the best player we have off the bench? Patty Mills off the bench that is very NBL of you......Lets get American imports and even though they are our most talented athletic and best player, lets sit him behind our Aussie guy.
Time to pass the torch develop a team - why do you think Anthony Davis was in the US olympic team? He is not better than alot of older NBA guys but they want to give him the experience and DEVELOP him......
Australia doesnt have the luxury of having the best players in the world - lebron kobe KD but if we put our thinking caps on now and put together a young team full of potential (college guys, young guys in europe) although we might not win right now, in 4 years we will medal...and come on what is the difference between 7th and 12th people we are not getting medals anyway right now.......Sacrifice now to gain later.....Anyone who is going to be too old for the Olympics in 4 years should not be in the squad for world champs.....waste of a spot.
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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 1:15 pm, Mon 18 Jun 2018 | Posts: 718,341 | Last 7 days: 640