Isaac
Years ago

BA responds to FIBA over tanking claim

Basketball Australia categorically rejects any suggestion that the Australian Boomers were a party to contriving the result of the 2014 FIBA World Cup game between Australia and Angola.


The Australian Boomers went into the game against Angola to win - plain and simple.

Claims to the contrary are widely speculative, insulting to the Australian sporting culture and to our playing group who gave their very best throughout this tournament. They're downright wrong.

Basketball Australia has put a strong and detailed case to FIBA outlining why the decision was made to rest injured players and restrict playing time for fatigued players during the last game day of Group D.

That decision was supported by clear and definitive medical advice.
Full press release

Topic #35382 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bit sad from fiba really, no need to go public about it, should have kept it in house had a meeting with the irrelevent ppl to solve the issue. Just can't pick a country and say that, i find that if they did or did'nt there are ways of doing things and respecting the country that u have no proof ove that happened!

Reply #493155 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

"We were under strict medical advice not to play defense and to hurl contested fadeaway 25 footers..."

At least admit that the tournament seeding format incentivises tanking and push for the tournament format to be revised.

Reply #493156 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

And agree this should have been handled internally...it would have allowed Australia to be honest.

Reply #493157 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Obvious response really, no country would admit to throwing a game, nor should they!

It apparently all started with the accusing social media pipe from the Slova' coach, maybe FIBA should have just shut him down and done the rest behind closed doors, agree would have looked more professional for the sport and better for AUS.

Once the cat is out of the bag it is well and truly out...

They will flex their muscle and make threats that it had better not happen again or else, end!

Reply #493158 | Report this post


LC  
Years ago

Like the stance by BA.

Would love to see the full response!

I just think that the way FIBA went about this and the words that they used were totally inappropriate and in fact inflammatory.

Reply #493160 | Report this post


LC  
Years ago

Also, think that the SLO coach and Goran Dragic should be cited for their conduct on social media...

Reply #493161 | Report this post


Adam  
Years ago

As for Goran Dragic and the Slovenian Assistant Coach, somebody had to call a spade a spade. Many if not most agree we manipulated the result, and some think we 'intentionally' made sure we lost. This is a very serious accusation with themes of collusion, conspiracy, and general corruption. Some of this is reminding me of the swirling Lance Armstrong saga, 'we had to do this to give us a chance to medal', 'everyone else is doing it', and lying through ones teeth in defence of their integrity, not to mention the "How Dare you sir" indignation shown by Basketball Australia. All FIBA is going to need is one player to pipe up and say that they established what was going to happen prior to the game. I wouldn't be surprised if someone involved 'lawyers up', at the very least I think we will here a lot of 'it is not appropriate for me to comment as there is currently and invest....blah blah blah'.

Reply #493164 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Really though LC? Australia threw the game and they called them on it. You can't really cite someone for saying something that is obviously true beyond reasonable doubt...unless it's criticising officials...because for some reason that's taboo...

I thought their jokes about Australia missing the USA once Turkey knocked us out were hilarious.

Just a bit of sledging. Doesn't hurt anyone.

Reply #493166 | Report this post


The Dream  
Years ago

generic investigation warrants generic response

Reply #493168 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

And I'd rather the Aussies say "it is not appropriate for me to comment" than flat out lie like what Lemanis and BA have done...

THAT is the bit that pisses me off more than the actually dive they took: pulling all this hokey "giving your best effort is the Australian way, we would never throw a game, it would be against our culture" pseudo patriotic nonsense.

You threw the game, either admit it or shut up and don't say anything. There is no need to lie to everyone, it just makes you look stupid.

Everyone knows it's as much FIBA's fault for their dodgy tournament format anyway.

Reply #493169 | Report this post


Benno  
Years ago

Mick are you serious? Admit to throwing a game do you understand the precautions of those actions. We would be banned from the next world cup at least and maybe even the Olympics, Its like a giant game of poker!

Reply #493172 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

And FWIW, i think this combined with Lemanis poor coaching in games we WERE trying to win means his head should roll.

I think we need to go back to a coaching system where the guy has a dayjob: not coaching every day makes you lose touch, the game evolves so quickly in this day and age. There is no need for this to be a full time gig when most of those crappy Chinese tournaments we play in feature Jason Cadee or whoever as our go-to guy.

You also significantly reduce your coaching talent pool if you make it a mandatory full time gig.

What world-class coach in their right mind would take a job that precludes them from coaching in an elite league?

Reply #493175 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

@Benno,

The tape shows we threw the game, what difference does it make whether we admit it or not?

If FIBA have any ticker after throwing around accusations like that they should be taking disciplinary action regardless of BA's stance.

Would love to see Lemanis try break down that Angola game tape with a FIBA official with a straight face. Would be a black comedy.

Reply #493176 | Report this post


Benno  
Years ago

Im not denying we threw that game, but the point that you said we should admit to throwing the game is utter stupidity... If we were to do that Joe Ingles should take up tennis.. No Matter how how hard you are against the rope you never throw in the towel in this situation.

Reply #493180 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

I think we should either say nothing about it publicly, or, yeah sure, admit it. I would do the former personally because the latter is obviously rather suicidal.

Throw this nonsense at FIBA behind close doors but releasing a public statement saying they didn't throw that game and that giving it your best go is the Australian way is insulting every Boomers fan who watched that game.

Reply #493181 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

To Mick and others who believe the players who were on the court were tanking: point to the incidents in the last 5 minutes of the game you believe prove this "beyond reasonable doubt".

Reply #493182 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Pretty simple really look at the rebounds we didn't get. Payers standing around like spectators. The Boomers made Moreira look like a great player.
Now BA are citing medical reasons. Some players need a rest. I hope these same players never want to play NBA.

Reply #493194 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sometimes its better to say nothing then deny the obvious.

Reply #493196 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Nothing will come of it. FIBA had to make a public response and BA had to give a public rebuke. The main problem was Australia didn't hide what they did well enough. You can't get up by 20 and then let Angola slice through 5 defenders for an easy lap up 10 times in a row.

Reply #493197 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

They would have been better off starting slowly and coming home hard... The way they went about it highlighted the problem.

Reply #493199 | Report this post


skull  
Years ago

get of your soap box mick.

Reply #493204 | Report this post


Hoopie  
Years ago

Not that FIBA would go after every team that tanks.

We're an easy target far away from the European centres of power. They'd never go after a Lithuania or a Serbia, for example

Reply #493205 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"Would love to see Lemanis try break down that Angola game tape with a FIBA official with a straight face. Would be a black comedy."

I think if he broke it down alongside tape of defensive breakdowns by Exum, Goulding, Jawai and Motum in other international and club games then he would receive an unreserved apology!

Reply #493207 | Report this post


fstos  
Years ago

I would have said something along these lines.

As all that would have resulted from a win against Angola was potentially a tougher draw for the rest of the tournament it was extremely difficult for the players and coaching staff to be motivated. Also due to this fact the team management and coaching staff decided that any player with even the slightest of injury would be rested completely or only play minimal minutes. The effort levels of the players was not at the level required to compete at international level as a result of this lack of motivation.

Reply #493212 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

They would have been better off starting slowly and coming home hard... The way they went about it highlighted the problem.
Completely true. They would've avoided all of this if Gibson and co hadn't shot 14/25 from three.

Reply #493213 | Report this post


Phil  
Years ago

what a bunch of muppets at fiba.

dont build a format that rewards teams that would lose games and punish them for winning a dead rubber, watch it happen for years , allow a player and coach to talk crap about it in public , then put out a public call to the country to explain their actions.


no-one outside of basketball had any idea what australia did. and anyone who knows anything about basketball and the tournament would understand why they did it.

now that fiba have put out this crap it is taking it into the public sphere and people who dont know basketball too well think that the sport is completely crap and a joke.

fiba should have taken this to australia privately , given the slovenians a harsh word to keep stuff in house , and taken chance to re-write the rules that caused this problem in the first place.

Reply #493215 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

I think its fair to say, if the 'tanking' was performed by a European/south american powerhouse.. or the USA, there would be no formal investigation as evidenced by Spains clear tanking to Brazil last Olympics.

It seems to me, some nations are the FIBA 'class pets' - above criticism and action, whilst everyone else - Australia - are to be held accountable for anything that could be misconstrued as under handed.

I am not sure what the investigation will uncover, if anything. I am not sure how much real 'evidence' will weigh on FIBA's decision (seeing as they are just a sporting body, and not a legal institution).. However some of the measures proposed could send the Boomers back to the dark ages.

Banned from tournaments? Half a million dollar fines?

Could you imagine if the Boomers were banned from the next Olympics?

It is fair to say, when it comes to FIBA, whats good for the goose (Euro teams) may not be good for the gander (Australia) and whilst I believe Australia tanked, and I agreed with the decision to do so knowing that everyone else does it, as a nation that isn't in the "friendship group" of FIBA, I would never ever consider tanking again under any circumstance.

We are yet to see how this will affect the Boomers, lets hope not at all. Lets hope FIBA is just doing this for public relations reasons and that they take no action on Australia.

As the powerhouse of the Oceania/Asian region, surely they wouldn't want to completely fuck us over?

Reply #493231 | Report this post


J-dogg  
Years ago

More importantly I think Dragic's parents should be investigated by fiba for calling one son Goran and the other Zoran

Reply #493234 | Report this post


XY  
Years ago

Finishing second should NEVER be worse than finishing third. Whose fault is this?

Reply #493236 | Report this post


skull  
Years ago

there are only 2 medals available....silver & bronze, do the math....do you want one or not??

Reply #493237 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Phil, good points. Australia messed up their efforts to lose, but this could've been easily overlooked if FIBA didn't want to fix their system.

Reply #493240 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The scary part of all this is that most people think they know what happened and make excuses for a team that clearly tanked. Everyone knows it and I don't give a shit whether everyone else in other countries don't know nor care.
LeManis has now lost all credibility as have the players that played for Australia. I wonder how many games LeManis have been involved in in the NBL where they tanked.

Reply #493241 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Does Spain have any credibility to you anon?

Reply #493246 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

I think us choking away that Turkey game soured it for me more so as well.

If you're gonna throw a game where you are up 15 or so, you better not lose next one that you're trying to win when up 12...

If you're gonna take a dive then you better make sure you show up when it counts so you can reap the benefits of said dive.

Reply #493251 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Any chance FIBA are doing this investigation because some betting agencies lost a ton of money?

Centrebet had Angola at $7 and Australia at $1.10 even though we all knew most of knew we were going to run with the bench.

I wonder how much international betting agencies lost?

Reply #493261 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Good point anon...

I wonder how many people got on Angola though?

Reply #493263 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I know someone who put $10 on Angola to win, if that's not justification for this investigation alone I don't know!

Reply #493266 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

> If you're gonna throw a game where you are up 15 or so,
> you better not lose next one that you're trying to win when up 12...

Well, unless you want a ready-made excuse for the Angola loss. "We're a team that gives up leads regularly! We can't help it!" :p

Reply #493270 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

A lot of people bet on Angola, cuz we all knew Australia will tank.

Reply #493274 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

The betting agencies only have themselves to blame for that. Anyone could see that the incentives aligned against their longshot Angola.

Forget the $10, multiple people on here bet $100 and were very confident. Nothing to do with inside word, all obvious public info about the bracket ahead.

Reply #493276 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

so it is ok to tank because other teams do it ?
or it is ok to tank because you are rewarded for tanking ?
it is wrong to tank .

Reply #493283 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

depends what your definition of tanking is?

Angola were a rabble the fist half, when the Aussies players started getting tired and the Angolans made a couple of shots, some of the Angolan players started trying, especially the tall guy.

If FIBA wanted to investigate a team for not trying it could actually be Angola in the first half.

Baynes was icing and being strapped throughout the course of the game, Ryan injured or reinjured his leg during the 3rd or 4th quarters. Both players carried injuries into the Turkey game.

If a team really wanted to throw a game they could easily make some dumb fouls, shoot badly at foul line etc, turnover the ball and execute poorly on offense at critical times (geez did we tank against Turkey?)

Also the opals are better off finishing 2nd in the pool games rather than 1st.

Reply #493289 | Report this post


skull  
Years ago

Have a read of what Boti has to say..... at last someone with something sensible to say !!

Reply #493382 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Couldn't disagree more Skull.

After reading that article it seems as if Boti is insinuating that Australia didn't intentionally throw that game (merely that we rested players and let the chips fall where they may), which is errant nonsense, and that FIBA had no right to insinuate as such. If more prominent Aussie basketball personalities were brave enough to call a spade a spade then we could deal with the real issue here, which isn't tanking, but is the FIBA tournament format.

We threw the goddamn game, and because we did it in such a blatantly over-the-top fashion, we have to deal with the consequences: fines, disqualifications, come what may.

It seems still have a bit to learn from our Euro Big Brothers, about winning AND (intentionally) losing...

Just because Euro teams flop their asses off and throw games ad nauseum, doesn't mean we have to.

If you don't have the mentality of wanting to face the best in the world and beat them, you don't deserve to be there.

Reply #493432 | Report this post


skull  
Years ago

couldn't disagree more Mick.

Normally I like reading your knowledgeable and informative posts,on this occasion I'm totally confused as to what flag you are flying...
Please explain to me what your posts would read if Lemanis had played Baynes or Ingles and they got injured?? Let me guess...sack Lemanis?
Even if mistakes were made....even if as a coaching group wrong calls were made even if we honestly rested players and got beaten, just stop banging on about it ffs.
What about the game against Lithuania, in my opinion the greatest game ever by a boomers team...why not talk about that?

Reply #493486 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

lemanis has denied the cheating and the Boomers have now played the medical card. "WE needed rest time." Funny that everyones rest day was the day after. Cant back up for a few games in a row?
Piss off.
What are you on about Mick. "If more prominent Aussie basketball personalities were brave enough to call a spade a spade then we could deal with the real issue here, which isn't tanking, but is the FIBA tournament format."
Read the crap that A gaze and A bogut sprout. Heal said they tanked how much more prominent do you want?
Beating Lithuania was as others have said one of the best achievements the Boomers have achieved ever. Tanking is pathetic and the prominent people agree they did. How about just suspend them from FIBA for say 2+ years.

Reply #493494 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I dont think the issue is about resting players, its the fact it was so obvious we stopped trying. the amount of open dunks we gave them, not running back in transition D, not boxing out, allowing the man to blow by with a simple dribble move, not playing help D, and just jacking up shit thats the problem

Reply #493497 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

If those things were issues Puerto Rico would have been kicked out of international play a long time ago!

Reply #493520 | Report this post


Adam  
Years ago

This strikes me as a pretty apt metaphor for our game against Angola.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ApeH_ynA8Q

Reply #493524 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

PLease don't use the medical card. How about just play through adversity if indeed it does exist.
So difficult to back up a few days apart eh. Yet we can't apparently.

Reply #493531 | Report this post


Maxymoo  
Years ago

@Skull, the bitch isn't resting a couple of players ....it was the blatant non-effort.

The core of this issue is did we intentionally go out to lose ....to me the answer is yes.

It is a shitty thing to do and if other countries choose to do it ....well guess what? - it's still a shitty thing to do.

It's a bigger issue than the LTU win, much bigger - damaging to our culture, damaging to our national reputation and BA need to act.

Reply #493534 | Report this post


Adam  
Years ago

I completely agree Maxymoo. What kills me is the collusion of the team to do this, I really hope it all comes out and we discover that there were dissenters amongst the squad. It is getting worse by the day. BA's statement is misguided, did they interview the coach, the players, what are they basing their assured innocence upon. The silence from the playing group and Assistant coaches is deafening. It is bad and wrong, it's Badong (reference to Kung Pow there) on so many levels. How crappy was it to Angola who seemed to genuinely think they had played the role of giant killer only to have a huge asterisk applied to their win. What about the jeopardy it has put the playing group in, could they be banned, or punished for their parts in all of this.

I can honestly say, at that level, I have never seen a team intentionally lose as obviously as it appears the Boomers did. In the future, will we second guess the Boomers losses and analyse, forensically, game tape to see if they were applying effort or not.

For mine, there is nothing redeeming about what they did. Their 'ham fisted' attempt to lose the game could not be ignored and it looks like we are now only going to make it worse by using the 'loud and blustery indignation' card.

Reply #493541 | Report this post


GWB  
Years ago

Any news how this investigation will take place or when we will know the results?

Reply #493542 | Report this post


Beantown  
Years ago

As much as I understand why the Boomers did what they did, I really didn't like seeing them do it. Its a blight on what should be a showcase for basketball and it must be eliminated before the next tournament.

I just hope that someone at FIBA uses their brains and adopts the system of drawing round of 16 opponents randomly as per Boti's suggestion. This will ensure all teams strive for the highest possible seed in their group and eliminate the need for teams to throw games.

Reply #493545 | Report this post


fstos  
Years ago

Adam "I can honestly say, at that level, I have never seen a team intentionally lose as obviously as it appears the Boomers did."

So are you saying you have never seen another team intentionally lose or are you saying that they just haven't been so obvious about it. You have not watched many world or Olympic tournaments if you think the former is the case.

I am more upset about BA's cringe worthy reply than I am about the tank, Just say that players are not motivated to give their greatest efforts or risk injury if the group game cannot improve their chances of getting deep into the tournament.

Reply #493547 | Report this post


Big Ads  
Years ago

I hope those openly accusing the team, and subsequently each individual, of deliberately attempting to lose the Angola game never find themselves in the position in which they are found guilty of an act upon which innuendo, speculation, conjecture and assumption is deemed sufficient evidence to determine ones innocence.

Key members of the men's basketball program and Basketball Australia have publically stated that the team did not collude to lose the game, therefore they must be given the benefit of any doubt until there is irrefutable proof to the contrary.

Until then, if ever, spare your wraith for those who are found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

Reply #493548 | Report this post


Maxymoo  
Years ago

It's called an opinion.....Big Ads.

Reply #493549 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

well if it is not tanking big ads our basketball team has gone so far backwards

Reply #493551 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

it was called get through a game with 7 players, get no further injuries, get the game over with as soon as possible. the result was irrelevant.

the comment made about the rest day isn't correct. The Friday was a travel day, involving flights, it isn't a rest day. travel is draining mentally and physically doesn't allow player to recover.

The team actually got an extra day rest on the Saturday as a result of finishing 3rd in the pool.

Reply #493552 | Report this post


Michael  
Years ago

These are not children..they don't fly on domestic flights like regular people. this is their profession not a hobby. Stop the excuses people. Baynes went through just as much travel in the nba. Fine..dont play Baynes..Ingles was tired I guess but Dova and Anderson? whats their excuse. even if the seven were not trying to loose the game the team did not compete with integrity nor did the coaches coach. I dont blame the players I blame the coach. If he would have coached with passion and maybe tried to lead the team as if it mattered, they might have won. He did not manage the game to give them a chance to win. He should be the one being scrutinized not the team

Reply #493576 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Pretty stressful that 3 hour flightto Madrid.
Never heard so much crap in my life. NBA anyone?
NBL even.

Reply #493583 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

@fstos, I like where you were heading with the 'lacking in motivation' excuse coupled with the 'any slight injury or soreness' excuse to rest players.

It is perhaps a more sophisticated and subtle way of saying we didn't really go out there to lose, but we were thinking too far ahead of ourselves and kind of dropped to ball in the Angola game, sorry about that!

The only problem is we did such a god damned awful job of it because let's face it the Boomers don't usually go out there with this scenario in front of them, it is usually win at all costs to get a better seeding.

Reply #493587 | Report this post




You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.



Close ads
Little Streaks - The fun and interactive good-habits app designed especially for kids.
Serio: Tourism photography and videography

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 1:20 pm, Tue 19 Mar 2024 | Posts: 968,026 | Last 7 days: 754