Jumpshot
Years ago

Kings need more experience in the front court

Kings still need more experience in the front court - may be an import centre. Ellis, Humphries and Garlepp is just not deep enough. Not sure what Pineau can add. Acuoth still young. Singh unproven in NBL.

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SteveK2  
Years ago

Singh's biggest problem in the NBL would be his transition speed and shot efficiency. He has problems playing against faster centers even if they are smaller. Quite ok going up against slower, bigger guys like Haddadi.

Not sure if the delay in Kings announcing their decision with him has to do with the current FIBA Asia cup or having second thoughts and seriously considering a proper import big. If they want to seriously contend for the championship this season, they seriously need to bite the bullet, go way over the cap and get a highly mobile rebounder and shotblocker.

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Jumpshot  
Years ago

Agree SteveK2, but Singh would still be counted as an Aussie. I would have thought there is still room for an import Centre, even if they sign Singh.

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Wookiee  
Years ago

It's a matter of numbers now, Kings only have one spot left for the 11...

Lisch / Cadee
Leslie* / Thoseby
Newls / Blanchfield
Ellis* / Garlepp / Pineau
Humphries / ???

Humphries starting is a mistake... He's scored 20+ against college teams, but rebounding still seems like an issue for us (top two rebounders tonight against American University were guards).

The Kings are persisting without a specific PG, and now they're going to balls it up and not go with a legit 5 as well... It will be a schamozzle...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

JvG is to blame. He knows how to convince ownership groups I have to give him that.

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Wookiee  
Years ago

Just wish he'd use his power for good, not evil...

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Isaac  
Years ago

All but Garlepp are unknowns in their front court, that is the risk. But outside of that, is it being picky?

Lisch and Newley are MVP-level players. Cadee, Blanchfield and Garlepp have started recently enough. Then add two imports to that and Humphries has been talked up - whether he's worth it or more in the Axel Dench or Ben Allen category will emerge soon enough.

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paul  
Years ago

I agree, a very good line-up bar for a strong, experienced defensive presence in the frontcourt. If they don't get that right they'll be like Melbourne United two years ago, a really good offensive team with no hope of winning in the playoffs.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Just wish he'd use his power for good, not evil...


Tehehe! I wish I had a clip of that piece Fox did with JvG grinning like a Cheshire Cat on how smart he was with the (really really basic) points system Bullets back in the day. A part of it was getting Bradtke on low points due to longevity exemption or something. Wasn't rocket science but Grove$, yet he thought he was Einstein.

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SteveK2  
Years ago

(top two rebounders tonight against American University were guards).


Check the FIBA livestats link in the other thread. Top rebounder was Malone with 7, he's the 6'10" DP centre but seems to be a team rebound effort, 6 or 7 guys with at least 5 rebounds each.

Lineup even with Singh is one of the best on paper. The 2 imports while new, seems less risky than usual no named fresh college grads. Two qualities that you watch for when scouting, aside from usual highlight reels and physical abilities, are basketball IQ and clutch.

Both imports have led teams in running both offense/defense and they have came through many times as the go-to guys in do or die situation. There's still risk ofc but you'd take it with Leslie and Ellis.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Sydney are loaded with talent, stop making excuses for them before the season even starts. If they don't perform they need to look at the coach. Gaze is a great bloke but will struggle withouth Vickerman there this year!

Reply #644032 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

There's no doubting we have a very good back court, it's probably the deepest we've been in a long time, but the point is that the front court depth is extremely lacking... Garlepp may have started in recent years, but he's proven to not be a strong rebounder, and Perry for all his positives, he's not a strong rebounder either...

I'd be REALLY happy with a Gladness type...

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Wookiee  
Years ago

Yeah, I thought the Malone was that other Darcy from a while ago who wasn't a big, my bad... Half time though, I think Daly was the leading rebounder? (Along with blocks and assists, which was pretty impressive)

It's not a case of making excuses, I fully acknowledge that there is a lot of talent on this team, it's just not spread out as much as a championship-winning team should be... Can be critical without it being a case of setting up excuses for when they don't actually make good on the playoffs...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Sydney are loaded with talent, stop making excuses for them before the season even starts. If they don't perform they need to look at the coach. Gaze is a great bloke but will struggle withouth Vickerman there this year!

While it is true Gaze isn't a suitable coach at this level with his experience and ability it doesn't matter who the coach is when you look at the recruitment side of things. The coach isn't involved at all, the people at the top/JvG are making the signings.

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SteveK2  
Years ago

Have watched Perry for a while. Maybe its the lesson drilled into him during his formative years, but he is one of those players that prioritise boxing out over leaving his man to grab the board. He certainly has the vertical leap and handles to corral loose rebound but rarely leaves his man.

Whoever plays alongside him definitely benefits from that trait at the cost of his rebounding numbers. On the other hand, Leslie is a freakish guard with the wingspan of a 6'10" PF with a 40" vertical. No surprise he hovers around 6 rpg as a guard.

Kings nemesis last season was Adelaide and a part of that is Sobey matched up with Cadee. Rebounding-wise that's akin to getting a chihuahua to guard a pitbull. You'd hope Leslie would give Sobey a run for the best rebounding guard in the NBL this season.

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LoveBroker  
Years ago

I find it quite odd that at this level a senior coach is not involved in recruiting.

Either JVG does a Vulcan Mind Meld with Gaze or JVG just goes on an expensive crapshoot with imports.

I think this team is still dangerous, at the 1, 2 and 3 they all can burn the opposition, even the bench guys.

Reply #644046 | Report this post


jumpshot  
Years ago

Agreed Wookiee,

The backcourt is strong this year for once in a long time. Frontcourt really only has Garlepp coming off the bench. We are not writing this to make excuses, but rather to encourage JVG and Gaze to have another look at what they need to fix up.

They did not listen to the fans last year, when everyone was saying we needed an import PG - well before Ware and Cotton were signed by other teams (who were the key of success in other teams). Instead the Kings went and got Jackson.

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paul  
Years ago

The two teams in the GF had Aussie PGs, however they had American SGs, similar to the formula the Kings followed. The difference was they had good support behind those guys, where the Kings had a bunch of 3-4s on the bench.

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Zodiac  
Years ago

The Kings decision to sign 17 forwards last season was their big problem. You could understand the gamble on Blake but replacing him with a SEABL PF who got injured at the pointy end anyway was a huge stuff up.

They really should've done more to re-sign one of Khazzouh or Maric to back up Humphries. That slow lumbering Indian guy if they sign him won't be enough. It just looks like another deficient Kings roster this season.

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paul  
Years ago

Agree completely Zodiac, I don't know Aleks' asking price but to me he is an ideal back-up centre, especially when you're trying to educate Humphries.

Last year, had the Kings signed Kendle instead of Jackson I reckon they make playoffs.

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Jumpshot  
Years ago

"The two teams in the GF had Aussie PGs, however they had American SGs, similar to the formula the Kings followed. The difference was they had good support behind those guys, where the Kings had a bunch of 3-4s on the bench."

If this was the case neither Lisch or Cadee could match the other PGs and Bryson and Blake were no where near SG level required. Kings still needed an import PG in order to compete.

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SteveK2  
Years ago

I don't think you can simplify last season's problems down to not having an import PG. You had an amazing run at the start of the season when teams still haven't figured out your plays and Bryson was next to useless. Lisch and Cadee was handling the load and running the team just fine.

As things picked up pace, you messed up team chemistry with chopping and changing the roster. Have said enough about Gaze and shuffle, but you need to wonder what Vickerman did on the defensive end as well. Whatever it was, it didn't work and this is from a defensive-oriented, championship winning coach.

You had a PF import that was actually a SF and didn't like banging inside when teams took away his outside shot and penetration. Your backup import C was actually a PF with an attitude problem that became the refs' favorite target.

There are many ways to be successful even without your traditional PG running the team. Gaze and Heal weren't traditional PGs but they've won championships, in the NBA quite a few of the recent champions had roleplayer PGs. Actually some of the best PGs in the modern NBA still don't have rings, Steve Nash and Chris Paul come to mind.

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Wookiee  
Years ago

You can't just say you can't simplify the Kings problems with PG last season and then simplify some of the NBA's best pure PGs not having won championships either ;)

I completely agree with all the points though... It wasn't just the PG problem last season and I think if anyone paid attention to my ramblings last season, a LOT of them were complaints about Whittington and Powell... It was complete madness that Jackson was Blake's replacement and it was done WEEKS after he left when there were still plenty of better options available, and that just shows the lack of thought behind the recruiting process...

I was big on them re-signing Maric this season, but I think there were things behind the scenes that were going on... Not sure what sort of money he came back for (apparently he approached the Kings to come back, not the other way around?) and while he didn't have a Newley-like return to the league, he was more than respectable and I agree would have been a great pairing with Isaac and even if you had to pay him import money, it would have been worth the spend in the long run and allowed them to placate the hard-on they have about only going into the season with two imports (see latest Aussie Hoopla podcast/article).

Like most have said in one way or another, a huge problem last season was balance... This team again doesn't have the right balance... They'll win their fair share of games, but they don't have the right parts to win at the right part of the season...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I agree re lack of balance

To me both caddee and lisch are better suited to playing sg next to a defensive pass firts pg like a gibson, martin or norton

Humphries is the only real c and very young eventhough he is very talented, if they sign singh can those 2 hold down c for 30 to 40 mins per game against guys like ogilvy all season?

To me the depth chart looks like

Pg ... cadee?
Sg leslie lisch thoseby
Sf newley blanchfield
Pf ellis garlepp pinau
C Humphries singh

Fairly talented but not great balance

I would have liked something like

Dillard m-white or r carter
Lisch cadee
Newley cheap sf ?? Muo
Ellis garlepp
Humphries maric singh

The money saved by not adding blanchfield was used to keep maric as with newley and lisch kings dont need another expensive sg/sf expecially when short at c

Reply #644144 | Report this post


jumpshot  
Years ago

For sure we had other problems with Powell, Kazzouh and rebounding. However we would have been in the playoffs, if we had a Randle, Ware, Cotton or Trice, who can create something out of nothing, when the set-plays don't work.

Hopefully, Leslie can bring some of that experience this year.

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SteveK2  
Years ago

Ha! Not about to get suckered into writing a thesis on why Nash and Paul haven't got rings :). With Maric, I did hear it had something to do with Newley and took some convincing to get them to sign him. Clearly still not sold on him whatever the price was.

Thinking about it, its interesting that they were telling everyone that there was a chance that Maric may return circa the Combine. Singh must have looked similar (both lumbering hulks) with the likelihood of a lower price tag because pretty soon they changed their tune and sounded pretty adamant that Maric won't return.

I'm still of the opinion that the backcourt balance isn't that bad because of the offensive sets they run. If anything I reckon its pretty good with Daly as insurance there. You have to admit that their DP class so far is outstanding, one of the best if not the best this season. They are still DPs but extremely talented and slightly more polished than previous seasons.

I agree that the frontcourt is where it looks a bit dicey. I've posted enough about Ellis, I'm pretty confident he'll be alright. If we focus on the C position, last season its Maric, Powell and Hill with no DP bigs IIRC. This time you'll have Humphries, Singh, Pineau (they've designated him PF/C), Acuoth and Malone.

There is a lot of talent there, a lot more athleticism, speed and height/wingspan than last season's frontcourt but totally lacking in experience. There is depth however and that will offset some inexperience.

I reckon they totally lucked out on Acuoth. You scout around the world and voila! You find a 7'1" diamond in the rough in your very own backyard that has a chance to develop into someone you really need for your team.

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charon69  
Years ago

Singh. Oh dear. Etc is Jug thinking. Why does he even m8noity get to even pick the side?

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paul  
Years ago

"If this was the case neither Lisch or Cadee could match the other PGs and Bryson and Blake were no where near SG level required. Kings still needed an import PG in order to compete."

No they didn't, they were the best team in the league early, based on their ability to generate scores from turnovers.

Then they decided they would just run Whittington, Newley, Lisch and Cadee into the ground by not replacing Blake and their defence went to shit.

There is nothing complicated as to why Sydney went from the league's best to its worst team over the course of the year, you can't have a shallow bench in the NBL and hope to succeed.

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Duke Fan  
Years ago

Acuoth has been playing Youth League.....and not dominating. He's a chance of developing into a player but he's a long way away from being a contributor at NBL level

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The kings bench wasn't that shallow, WMW, Hill, Moller, even Prewster was reasonable but just never used.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

"While it is true Gaze isn't a suitable coach at this level with his experience and ability it doesn't matter who the coach is when you look at the recruitment side of things. The coach isn't involved at all, the people at the top/JvG are making the signings."

Anon, you are completely missing the point, it's not about whether or not Gaze had any input into recruiting (he definitely did so you're wrong there), it's the fact that he failed to deliver results with a stacked team last year and will do the same this year. He was a great player and a great basketball personality but that doesn't make you a good coach, last season his players looked lost and had very little chemistry on the court. Great coaches will bring this out in their team, waiting to see how long it takes Sydney to work that out.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The Gaze/Copeland coaching team was purely a PR stunt, and successful for its intended purposes, but it won't win Sydney a championship...

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Wookiee  
Years ago

The kings bench wasn't that shallow, WMW, Hill, Moller, even Prewster was reasonable but just never used.

Sorry, but that statement and the examples given purely disproves your point...

Agree that our DP class is very good, and no doubt they will get minutes at times, especially the bigs, and Daly has been putting up very solid numbers against the college teams, it will be interesting to see him go against the Hawks and the Blitz against NBL-level talent...

Leaving an open import spot "just in case" is stupid, as with our more loaded backcourt, if one of our bigger names goes down, it's easier to cover their spot and have one of the DPs step up than it is to get reamed on the boards for the first half a dozen games, then demote a reserve big and bring an import big into the team that is untested and could have a hundred different attitude problems like we've had to endure for what seems like every year since our return... If we lose Humphries or Ellis for any amount of time, we are seriously screwed... THAT is what they should be preparing for as a "just in case" scenario, and why not get an import big NOW so they can get used to the league, the refs and the team chemistry, which at times has REALLY sucked...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

and who is behind the PR stunt? JvG

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koberulz  
Years ago

Leaving an open import spot "just in case" is stupid
It wasn't for the 2010 Wildcats. Didn't turn out too badly for the 2011, 2012 or 2013 Wildcats, either.

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Wookiee  
Years ago

Compare those teams with the Kings balance this season... I don't eat, sleep and breathe Wildcats, but I think I can tell you that they probably would have had a more well-rounded team, a lot of it based around a really solid group of locals?

Did they have any gaping holes that should have been filled before the start of the season?

Like I've said... Keep Maric, no need for another big, local or otherwise, then it's a solid move to leave that spot open just in case, but when you've got a spot that already needs filling, and if one of the two main front court players goes down, it's a higher risk than a backcourt just in case scenario, say, if your all-NBL PG gets smashed in the face and gets his jaw mangled...

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Wookiee  
Years ago

And who was coaching those teams? An experienced coach, or a newbie?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Exactly. Those Wildcats teams weren't built on nothing but stupid AEG/JVG PR marketing crap.

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koberulz  
Years ago

Having a third import won't fix that either.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I don't know about Cadey some days the bloke is up and some days he is down and misses all his shots.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeah I hear that. Some of his shots go in and others miss. I don't know what to think anymore!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Cadee doesn't do it for me personally.

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Wookiee  
Years ago

Having a third import won't fix that either.

Missed the actual point... My suggestion was that the Wildcats COULD go with just two imports as they had a strong core group of Aussies and an experienced coach that could work around any minor match-up issues if they occured, but an unbalanced Kings team with a rookie coach can't afford to do that...

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AngusH  
Years ago

The big problem with Cadee is he falls in love with the 3, and those games where it's not dropping he doesn't always look to get points elsewhere. He's pretty decent going to the basket and makes a good % of those awkward looking one-handers and I think he needs to use that to get himself going more often than he does - if you look at those games early in the year last season where he was dropping 20 regularly, he was doing it from all over the court.

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jumpshot  
Years ago

Wookie,

All good points. You need to go onto Kings' facebook page and get some of these ideas to management.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Would a veteran type eg Luke Neville be worth that last roster spot.
Could be serviceable for 10 to 15 min.

Reply #644300 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Years ago

Nevill's content being a big fish in the small ponds of Taiwan & Qatar.

Reply #644321 | Report this post




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